Does it change when women get to their 30's?

January 4, 2010

There have been alot of "chicks dig jerks more than nice guys" threads as of recent. By the time women get in their 30's do they get some sense and look for a decent guy, with a job, that treats them well?

I want to hear from you ladies in your 30's-40's-etc.

The reason I ask is because I am recently back in the dating scene after about an 8 month break (got over my ex without a rebound;))...and I notice that a lot of girls in their 20's date jerks with no jobs and no ambitions in life. My very good lady friend who is a 29 year old lawyer admits that she goes for losers with no job. I am 31, fun, witty, have a great job, attractive, and a southern gentleman. Yet, I still get the blow off by girls who would rather date losers.

I've heard that your 20's is for making all the wrong decisions and you start to get it right in your 30's. I hope women by then start to appreciate a good guy.

Sure, some women date so-called "jerks" in their 20s and then look for nice guys in their 30s. They are looking for alpha male seed when they romp and provider seed when they raise kids. If you can be both types at once, you are a walking jackpot. However - you don't want to be a jackpot for a single/divorced bitter late 30s woman with kids to raise, kids she shot out after romping with the "jerks" 5-10 years ago.

Your best bet is to date younger women (than you), in any case. You're 31, so date women in their late 20s. Women at or above your age in the US are often hunting for $$ so they can have a family. You may want that too, eventually, but don't put the cart before the horse. Focus on your goals in life first, and weed out the low-quality ho's.

I recommend you date a few younger girls too, for good measure...but not long term. They are great in bed but usually immature by a 31 year old's standards.

Good luck.

January 4, 2010

Age should come with emotional maturity...and sometimes it does, sometimes it does not because societal expectations/attitudes have changed or are changing..In the olden days women and men get married in their very early teens-13, even 12 and stayed married forever...How did those kids know true, everlasting love? Maybe they didn't....I don't know...

Interesting, when I look back to life in my parents' and grandparents' youth, it seems that they matured in every way much earlier than people today, and that is likely the result of having responsibility and accountability thrust on them at an early age. There was a much greater sense of community and social pressure then when changing living location was harder and population was lower, making social pressure and stigma harder to escape. Not saying things were "better" then, just different as far as maturity goes.

As far as age and maturity going hand in hand, the two most emotionally immature women I've dated were both highly educated, highly compensated corporate executives who were capable of much competence at work, but managed their personal lives worse than most teenagers. Of course that's just two examples, but while I do find a correlation between age and -competence- in living day to day, I don't see such a correlation at all between age and emotional maturity... in my experience anyway.

January 4, 2010

Does anyone else find it entertaining when self proclaimed "nice guys" say how wonderful they are and then go on to bash the entire female gender calling them four letter words, gold-diggers or other such ridiculous nonsense because of their own personal dating failures?

I want every man to list to this very carefully: Women are not responsible for your personal feelings of insecurity and inadequacy when you strike out in dating. It is not our fault. It does not mean we are horrible. It does not mean we want men that treat us like crap. Just because it makes you feel better to think that's the case, doesn't make it true.[/Quote]

Women are responsible for so many men here feeling insecure, because women are too damned picky. If you're not a "super hot guy" women will invent a flaw for you. Women derive the whole value of themselves and others by their physical appearance, regardless of what they type here on this forum. Men do judge women too, but it's not nearly as thorough and cold, with a man, if you have an OK face, an OK personality, and an OK body, you are probably in.

We also do not choose men on the one fact that they consider themselves to be "nice". What man here picks a woman based strictly on her "niceness"? I doubt anyone of you do. If you are honest with yourself you can admit to yourself that it takes more then just being nice and being good on paper to have a relationship progress.[/Quote]

Obviously. Nobody is arguing about that.

What we are arguing however, is that if you meet a 6'3 guy with spikey hair and muscles who is a bully, uses drugs, has little intelligence and a scumbag, and you meet a 5'8 guy with an athletic build who is decent looking, intelligent, funny and confident, give the second guy a chance for once. Nobody is asking for you to date UGLY, fat, or boring guys, we're just asking you to put a more logical focus on looks, rather than making one night stands with the "hottest guys" you can find your only goal in your 20's.

If a man meets a high maintenance supermodel, and a cute girl next door who loves him for him, 9/10 times girl next door is in. For women it's the other way around. For women, more is always better, they can never have enough, they are avarice embodied. Just ask Adam and Eve.

I am sure that at one time or another, you guys rejected a "nice girl'. Maybe she didn't meet your look standards or other standards YOU know you have for women that you feel are up to your level.[/Quote]

Well if a woman is really ugly or fat, yeah I'll reject her. I am not ugly or fat. But if she is even passable in looks, and good personality, she's in!

The problem is this, that everyone from plain jane to sandra bullock fantasize about the same kind of guy. Most plain jane's would rather have 2 minutes in a seedy hotel with the ed hardy shirt wearing, fake tanned, spikey haired, BMW driving cocaine dealer, than go out on a date with a normal guy.

Infact, I will venture that the bitterness in these threads are due to "nice men" looking to the very hot popular type girls and being bitter that these hot girls that don't want them are so shallow and don't see what a wonderful person he is. Meanwhile, Sally May is in the local librarian and would think he is wonderful but she doesn't have huge knockers and whitened teeth. So "nice guy" bemoans the atrocoties and shallowness of "hot women" not wanting him. Awww, the irony. [/Quote]

WRONG! The bitterness stems from women in our league thinking they are above us, because society makes them think so.

I don't know where you get that we give a crap about how big your knockers are or how white your teeth are , I don't care at all. If anything, I don't even acknowledge those women, as they probably have a lot of compettition. The girls I've gone for in the past have been average looking, as interesting a personality as a woman will get, fun to be with, and yet even these girls want to play games and hold out for "the perfect guy" (guy who is tall, very good looking, and rich). Sometimes they even FIND IT! I remember this chubby girl said she only wanted to date guys who are 6 feet tall , had black hair, blue eyes, and a british accent, low and behold she actually found a guy like that and he was willing to date her!!! This is just frustrating, because it means these women date desperate, shy and lonely "hot guys" and can ignore the guys who are in their league.

Men do the same thing. Men want the super hot girl. But then become bitter and angry when she doesn't want him and then he blames all women kind for his poor choices and inability to be unshallow when he expects her to be.[/Quote]

What is your definition of super-hot? A girl who is not fat? Because that seems to be the American definition of "hot girl". In France your hot girls are average. If you mean hot girl in the sorority slut sense, no thank, never have been attracted to those kinds of women. Nor have I ever been attracted to high maintenance women.

I find the girl who wears little makeup, is smart, can get my sense of humor, isn't overweight, is of my own race, attractive. You'd be surprised how many women I think are attractive, many men are this way.

All those poor decent guys with all those worthless women. Those decent guys deserve super models.[/Quote]

No but there is a line. The good guys I know with girlfriends all have fat or ugly girlfriends, yet they are not fat or ugly. Some of them are pretty good looking. Is it really that much of a shot in the dark to look for a girl who isn't fat or ugly (When I am not ) who has a decent personality? ??

This is where the bitterness stems from . The only women with tolerable personalities are really ugly or/and fat. Everyone else is an entitled princess.

January 4, 2010

I wanted to be gang-banged lots last year, but now I want a family, so you have no right to judge me...

I cannot understand this type of thought process

January 4, 2010

I, and I believe everybody here, wouldn't want to have anything with this type of woman. Although this type of woman clearly represents just a fraction (albeit a solid one) of the female population, it is just insulting in principle to be a decent guy and passed over for somebody inferior but perhaps putting up a good show or something. Your pride will naturally trigger a negative reaction even if you don't actually want to do anything to do with the woman in question.

I agree on the pride thing. I am not happy if I am rejected because the woman thinks I am not good enough. But if I am passed over because the woman goes for douche-bags, I usually don't feel enraged or insulted. Maybe I am just arrogant, but what I feel is normally disbelief, as in "that's who you'd rather have? Okay then!".

It's basically the same feeling I have with women who multi-date. I am not even going to play that game. It's beneath me.

That said, and while I personally don't think casual sex is a good idea, I can't nor do I want to make decisions for other people. If they want to do stupid and disgusting things, they can do so. The woman who let a random guy cum on her face in front of other people isn't hurting anybody. Maybe herself, but that's for her to decide.

If she is single (and not cheating on anybody), even doing disgusting things like this is something she should be allowed to do. Don't get me wrong, I am all for people trying to talk some sense into her, but if she wants to do it, that is her choice.

Does that mean the men she dates later in life have to be okay with her promiscuous past? Hell no! Just as she had the right to do what she did, men have the right to not consider her dating material. It's really as simple as that.

Do I fault her for not disclosing information about her past? Yes and no. Plenty of people do not want to talk about their sexual history. Don't ask, don't tell, the past is the past. You can see that plenty of times on LS.

I think it would be better if people would volunteer such information, but I have accepted that if I want to know, I have got to ask about a woman's past. If she is honest, I can make a choice. And if there is something that is a deal breaker, I'll be disgusted, but you can bow out without insulting her. It becomes an entirely different ballgame if she lies about it, then she is a manipulative bitch. I have no sympathy for those. But even then, thinking she is a manipulative bitch doesn't have to lead to me calling her that.

Most sane men like to live by some semblance of respect and honor and when respect that is due is not given and honor is absent, that triggers strong negative emotions, even if you are not directly involved in the situation. After all, what good are honor and respect if you only apply them to your individual circumstances?

I don't care if she has a ONS or lets some random dude come on her face at a frat party or at a drug dealers house.

Those are all bad decisions IMO, but it's none of my business if that is what she wants to do. If I threw a fit every time a woman had a ONS or a FWB, I'd never do anything else. I'll admit that it does bother me in general, but not to the extent that I let it influence my life negatively. People have different values, I am okay with that as far as promiscuity is concerned. I don't like it but I accept it.

It only becomes my business if I am dating her and she is not being honest about her past. Other than that, I don't really care.

Why fight wars that cannot possibly affect our actual safety?

Do you think that is what he is doing? Look at the things he wrote.

How could a girl do this with a random stranger, yet make me take her to dinner then not even put out ??

I find it an insult to my dignity as well if a woman who does crap like that, later on go on dates with good and decent men, and not even sleep with them.

Sometimes me and my buddies ... start yelling dirty things at their girlfriends, or insult him.

Is that how you'd want to fight a war? Where is the honour, respect and dignity? Where is the class?

That's not what I meant, and when I say "I" I mean it speaking from the point of view in men. I have always refused intercourse with women who disgust me. What I was talking about the nerve of such women to make the good, decent and deserving men wait months, and sometimes not give it up at all, while undressing within 15 minutes for whatever dirtbag, fitted cap , ed hardy shirt wearing "Hot Guy" hits on them at the bar.

People are selfish. Some will lie to your face to get what they want. That happens to men and women.

I, too, am amazed at the audacity of some people. But there is little we can do. We can only avoid those people and/or cut them out of our lives once we see them for what they truly are.

But I also disagree with you on a couple of points. And I still think you choice of words is at best careless. It sure sounds like you think that women who once had sex with a dirt-bag should put out for every guy who is halfway decent.

I'm not talking about puritan sexual values here, just some common decency. Women should reward gentlemen with sex, and not any man of awful character and very low intelligence just because he is "HOT".

That sounds like "I treat her well, so she really should let me f*ck her!". I hope this isn't where you were going with this.

I can see your point though (if that is the one you were trying to make). If a woman has sex with random strangers, why would I be held to a different standard?

That said, if you were held to the same standard, what would that change? She still wouldn't be the woman you are looking for.

January 4, 2010

I cannot understand this type of thought process

Everything is situational. Obviously, boundaries are flexible or non-existent. There is no reflection in the mirror, in some cases.

Actions only have consequences if and when those consequences are enforced. Another person might not 'care' about that thought process and feed that particular ego. Be thankful that you didn't

January 4, 2010

As far as age and maturity going hand in hand, the two most emotionally immature women I've dated were both highly educated, highly compensated corporate executives who were capable of much competence at work, but managed their personal lives worse than most teenagers. Of course that's just two examples, but while I do find a correlation between age and -competence- in living day to day, I don't see such a correlation at all between age and emotional maturity... in my experience anyway.

Oh, I get what you mean....perhaps the understanding of what "maturity" is, differs? Maybe women or men who are "flaky" in their relationships do not think it as "immaturity" but more like, "i know I do not know if I want to settle just yet and do not want to make a commitment...." and believe that as "maturity" in that, at least they know they are not ready? or perhaps, society is just more tolerant of us flaking out because we have other choices...?

Anyway, I do not expect a 21 year old to be as mature as a 31 year old...and if they are, I would be pleasantly surprise and if they are not...well...I chuck it to age...If a 31 year old acts like he/she is 21, I do not really have much tolerance for that.

There is just no taking away experience(which usually comes with age) as a great teacher....if a person does not learn from it....well...start looking for a good therapist/counselor.

January 4, 2010

People are selfish. Some will lie to your face to get what they want. That happens to men and women.

I, too, am amazed at the audacity of some people. But there is little we can do. We can only avoid those people and/or cut them out of our lives once we see them for what they truly are.

But I also disagree with you on a couple of points. And I still think you choice of words is at best careless. It sure sounds like you think that women who once had sex with a dirt-bag should put out for every guy who is halfway decent.[/Quote]

No, what I mean is that if a woman sleeps with a guy who is trash, she shouldn't have the nerve to make a good guy wait. When a woman gives up sex to a man, the speed she gives it up with is a testament to how much she likes the man. If a woman gives it up to a scumbag in one day, and a good man after 20 dates, this is essentially saying she is only going out with the good man because she has to.

It's the way women say, "you're not good enough to give me your seed, but whatever, I'll let you raise whatever mystery I give birth to if you pay'. From the point of view of natural instinct and law, this is the gravest insult to a man and his genes.

That sounds like "I treat her well, so she really should let me f*ck her!". I hope this isn't where you were going with this.

I can see your point though (if that is the one you were trying to make). If a woman has sex with random strangers, why would I be held to a different standard? [/Quote]

I was making the second point. Why should they be held to a different standard?

That said, if you were held to the same standard, what would that change? She still wouldn't be the woman you are looking for. [/Quote]

It would, because it would mean women who aren't worthwhile would not waste my time or any other decent guys time. It would also discourage women from thinking they could "have their cake and eat it too" if men only used women who act that way in their 20's like the worthless whores they are .

January 4, 2010

No, what I mean is that if a woman sleeps with a guy who is trash, she shouldn't have the nerve to make a good guy wait.

Why not? if the good guy is willing to wait? the "good guy" should not allow that to happen to him....he should not even ask a woman out who slept with trashy guys in the first place. What about taking responsibility for deciding to wait? Is there coercion?

When a woman gives up sex to a man, the speed she gives it up with is a testament to how much she likes the man. If a woman gives it up to a scumbag in one day, and a good man after 20 dates, this is essentially saying she is only going out with the good man because she has to.

I disagree. I have never had a one night's stand or even had casual sex BUT some women give it up in the first meeting for a number of reason....alcohol, broken heart...etc. etc....I know a friend who made a guy wait for six months for sex because she wants the man so bad and did not want to screw it up....go figure.

It's the way women say, "you're not good enough to give me your seed, but whatever, I'll let you raise whatever mystery I give birth to if you pay'. From the point of view of natural instinct and law, this is the gravest insult to a man and his genes.

This is very disturbing. I do not personally know a woman like this....most women form emotional attachments to men they have sex with. Men can compartmentalize-that is the reason why men have women they have sex with and women whom they would bring home for mom to meet....

January 4, 2010

I can only speak for myself (and I am barely 30), but as a woman, I've never seen the point in dating a "bad boy" or whatever you want to call him. Doing drugs is a complete deal breaker for me, and I won't tolerate it. I guess I can see the lure of the alpha male, and sure, I'll flirt with that guy if I'm out, but when it comes to picking a man to be with, I'm going to go for the "nice guy" every time.

With that said....I'm amazed at how often "nice" is a front for "I'm going to cheat on you until you find out, and then try to convince you that you are crazy for thinking I'm cheating on you." Or like here on LS, the number of guys who say they are decent, yet come here and bash women left and right. It's like they think women can't pick up that vibe out in real life??

My spidey sense has gotten much better over the years. and I can now spot those kind much earlier in the process, so I just bail early on.

I am very much looking for a hubby to have kids with at this point, so I won't even consider dating someone I can't see in that role.

January 4, 2010

I will not deny that good people (men and women) get rejected by many because they might not fit the standards of attraction that most people desire.

However, I also think to try to point the finger at people here on this very board as if they are the ones doing that rejecting is futile.

I've known the women who are very shallow as well as the men who are very shallow.

The women would NEVER sign up on a message board. They're too busy posing pics of themselves on MySpace and Facebook, lusting for attention and admiration. The few who venture into these boards leave quickly because they don't want to hear people tell them they need to think differently to find that ideal man. They want to be told they're amazing and special and even better than most women. They want to be told they are victims when things go wrong and it's always the man's fault.

For the men who reject the decent women, they will sign up on a board like this, but they will come off as the self-proclaimed "alpha males" who will ridicule everyone. They'll bash the guys claiming they're doormat nice guys who can't get laid and bash the women as ugly bitches because they dare to challenge them. They'll also go on and on about how all women are whores and such...pushing the notion to men that they should just seek sex and nothing more.

I understand the frustration of men and women who try to get some level of success in the dating realm, but end up failing over and over. The only consolation I think many need to take is to realize they're not alone. Lord knows when I was failing I came to boards like this one and saw I wasn't alone.

The only bigger lesson I think most who fail need to learn is that complaining here might be a temporary boost of "feeling better", but it doesn't solve the problem. You can't expect the other gender to change. Women who were shallow won't become open-minded. Men who are jerks won't become good decent males.

Change in your life only comes from within, and I know this is the usual song and dance, but it's so true...and I'm the living example of it. I've preached it to death here.

None of you...men or women...can just magically expect "30" to become this life-changing time where hot girls dump bad boys for nice guys and hot guys suddenly date nice girls who never were asked out. That's fantasy land. As I said before, if you were ugly in the eyes of the opposite gender before, you will still be now. If you were a doormat "nice person" before, then it'll still be now.

UNLESS...you change who you are. It's not hopeless, but if what you've been doing has lead to failure over and over in the past, things won't change now just because everyone is 30something. Besides, would you really want a man or woman who is "damaged goods" or desperate to have anyone?

January 4, 2010

Why not? if the good guy is willing to wait? the "good guy" should not allow that to happen to him....he should not even ask a woman out who slept with trashy guys in the first place. What about taking responsibility for deciding to wait? Is there coercion?

I disagree. I have never had a one night's stand or even had casual sex BUT some women give it up in the first meeting for a number of reason....alcohol, broken heart...etc. etc....I know a friend who made a guy wait for six months for sex because she wants the man so bad and did not want to screw it up....go figure.

This is very disturbing. I do not personally know a woman like this....most women form emotional attachments to men they have sex with. Men can compartmentalize-that is the reason why men have women they have sex with and women whom they would bring home for mom to meet....

20% of men get 80% of the women. more women have one night stands than men, because it requires no game, so i would say women are a lot easier with casual sex, and when i've wanted things more serious, any talk of commitment would frighten them.. It's to the point that sex is a bodily function, nothing more, for most women, and it's like the small % of guys who get most o fthe women...

But saying women have all these emotional attachments with sex is laughable...

January 4, 2010

It's the way women say, "you're not good enough to give me your seed, but whatever, I'll let you raise whatever mystery I give birth to if you pay'. From the point of view of natural instinct and law, this is the gravest insult to a man and his genes.

I'd like to point out I never have thoughts about "seed" WTF?

Maybe you should focus less on your genes and more on your social skills??

January 4, 2010

20% of men get 80% of the women. more women have one night stands than men, because it requires no game, so i would say women are a lot easier with casual sex, and when i've wanted things more serious, any talk of commitment would frighten them.. It's to the point that sex is a bodily function, nothing more, for most women, and it's like the small % of guys who get most o fthe women...

But saying women have all these emotional attachments with sex is laughable...

just because you have been unsuccessful in your pursuit does not mean what you believe is true to others....but I am glad I made you laugh ....are you keeping warm?

January 4, 2010

But saying women have all these emotional attachments with sex is laughable...

Go find some women who have FBs and FWBs.

9 out of 10 usually are emotionally attached to their FB/FWB. Most of them usually went into that "setup" because they are hoping he'll maybe want more and thus it'll become a full-on RL.

FB/FWB is basically the "friendzone" for women. When a woman gives love to a guy, but he's not into her too much, but will gladly take the easy sex she's offering. Thus she's giving, he's taking, and she's constantly hoping it'll grow to love.

I've had several female colleagues in my life get into a complete emotional mess because they fell in love with a guy they are banging and are a mess because he won't reciprocate.

"Why can't he see we would be perfect together???"

"How can a guy just f**k a woman and not feel anything else??"

"How could he suddenly have a girlfriend? Why wasn't I good enough for that role???"

Cameron Diaz's character in Vanilla Sky is a good example of this.

January 4, 2010

There have been alot of "chicks dig jerks more than nice guys" threads as of recent. By the time women get in their 30's do they get some sense and look for a decent guy, with a job, that treats them well?

I want to hear from you ladies in your 30's-40's-etc.

The reason I ask is because I am recently back in the dating scene after about an 8 month break (got over my ex without a rebound;))...and I notice that a lot of girls in their 20's date jerks with no jobs and no ambitions in life. My very good lady friend who is a 29 year old lawyer admits that she goes for losers with no job. I am 31, fun, witty, have a great job, attractive, and a southern gentleman. Yet, I still get the blow off by girls who would rather date losers.

I've heard that your 20's is for making all the wrong decisions and you start to get it right in your 30's. I hope women by then start to appreciate a good guy.

Why would you even want to date the type of women who would waste her time dating an unemployed loser? I really think that it raises some big red flags if a woman dates guys like that.

January 4, 2010

No, what I mean is that if a woman sleeps with a guy who is trash, she shouldn't have the nerve to make a good guy wait. When a woman gives up sex to a man, the speed she gives it up with is a testament to how much she likes the man. If a woman gives it up to a scumbag in one day, and a good man after 20 dates, this is essentially saying she is only going out with the good man because she has to.

You are thinking like a man trying to think like a woman, too linear. A guy might go through this type of "liking-not liking" calculus, some women do, lots don't.

Try not to assume that a woman's choice to have sex is indicative of how much she likes a guy. Some women have sex just to get the guy to shut up about it and go to sleep. Some women have sex because they know that the guy likely won't fall for her and start calling 8 times a day. Some have sex because they are hornier at certain times of the month. Some have sex just to spite a GF they are competing with. Some have sex because they are outside their usual social group and can do so without scrutiny (stays in Vegas). Some have sex because the guy knows how to push the right buttons and build fast attraction. Some have sex with a guy they know won't respond to her in any other way than sexually (the situation 90% of these threads are really about at the core). Some have sex just to get a reaction from a guy they really like more than the one they have sex with. Some have sex because they realize a certain guy is in no danger of affecting them emotionally, None of these have anything to do with whom she really -likes- more.

This is the first step towards getting past the resentment men feel that women display two faces about sex, acting slatternly when she wants to, then doing a complete about-face when she wants to "settle down." And to preempt, I'm not talking about growth over time, but the fact that many women act like complete whores contemporaneously with acting like "good wife prospects" around different men. Many lie about their sexual exploits because they know it may turn off a man who is good "husband material." We see this transparency, and the inconsistency and inherent insincerity annoys us... as it should.

You need to get past this attitude though, as there is nothing whatsoever you can do about it. Women display it in many non-sexual areas also. Get used to it or start crafting a quality bachelor lifestyle for yourself. Brooding over it is allowing them to have power over you.

Once you get past that, you can brood (as I do ) on the real, nasty social and political consequences that the behavior you describe leads to culturally between the genders. Bogus social ills like "date rape," where a woman knowingly throws herself into bed with guys and then hollers "Rape!" because she was "too drunk to form consent," despite the reality that if the sanctity of her vagina was so important to her, she wouldn't be getting drunk and jumping into bed with strange men. This kind of thing ruins lives and carries billions of dollars of social costs to boot, while simultaneously devaluing the very real wrongs that true rape victims suffer. And by speaking out politically and socially, you CAN have some control over and effect on those types of social wrongs.

January 4, 2010

I will not deny that good people (men and women) get rejected by many because they might not fit the standards of attraction that most people desire.

However, I also think to try to point the finger at people here on this very board as if they are the ones doing that rejecting is futile.

I've known the women who are very shallow as well as the men who are very shallow.

The women would NEVER sign up on a message board. They're too busy posing pics of themselves on MySpace and Facebook, lusting for attention and admiration. The few who venture into these boards leave quickly because they don't want to hear people tell them they need to think differently to find that ideal man. They want to be told they're amazing and special and even better than most women. They want to be told they are victims when things go wrong and it's always the man's fault.

For the men who reject the decent women, they will sign up on a board like this, but they will come off as the self-proclaimed "alpha males" who will ridicule everyone. They'll bash the guys claiming they're doormat nice guys who can't get laid and bash the women as ugly bitches because they dare to challenge them. They'll also go on and on about how all women are whores and such...pushing the notion to men that they should just seek sex and nothing more.

I understand the frustration of men and women who try to get some level of success in the dating realm, but end up failing over and over. The only consolation I think many need to take is to realize they're not alone. Lord knows when I was failing I came to boards like this one and saw I wasn't alone.

The only bigger lesson I think most who fail need to learn is that complaining here might be a temporary boost of "feeling better", but it doesn't solve the problem. You can't expect the other gender to change. Women who were shallow won't become open-minded. Men who are jerks won't become good decent males.

Change in your life only comes from within, and I know this is the usual song and dance, but it's so true...and I'm the living example of it. I've preached it to death here.

None of you...men or women...can just magically expect "30" to become this life-changing time where hot girls dump bad boys for nice guys and hot guys suddenly date nice girls who never were asked out. That's fantasy land. As I said before, if you were ugly in the eyes of the opposite gender before, you will still be now. If you were a doormat "nice person" before, then it'll still be now.

UNLESS...you change who you are. It's not hopeless, but if what you've been doing has lead to failure over and over in the past, things won't change now just because everyone is 30something. Besides, would you really want a man or woman who is "damaged goods" or desperate to have anyone?

YES! YES! YES! Instead of pointing fingers on the internet, try some self reflection. I'm a very successful dater, and I think most of that has to do with my good attitude and unfailing optimism.

I think if you all took the energy you spent complaining and focused it on dating, things might go a little better.

January 4, 2010

There have been alot of "chicks dig jerks more than nice guys" threads as of recent. By the time women get in their 30's do they get some sense and look for a decent guy, with a job, that treats them well?

I want to hear from you ladies in your 30's-40's-etc.

The reason I ask is because I am recently back in the dating scene after about an 8 month break (got over my ex without a rebound;))...and I notice that a lot of girls in their 20's date jerks with no jobs and no ambitions in life. My very good lady friend who is a 29 year old lawyer admits that she goes for losers with no job. I am 31, fun, witty, have a great job, attractive, and a southern gentleman. Yet, I still get the blow off by girls who would rather date losers.

I've heard that your 20's is for making all the wrong decisions and you start to get it right in your 30's. I hope women by then start to appreciate a good guy.

It's hard to say. I guess if a woman wants children, she will change and chose a guy who has the good job, stability thing going of him. But, if they don't want children and have a high paying job themselves they can afford to chose the guy with no job. The problem is people can't help who they fall in love with. You just continue to be yourself and you will find the right woman. Have you tried going to church?

January 4, 2010

Why not? if the good guy is willing to wait? the "good guy" should not allow that to happen to him....he should not even ask a woman out who slept with trashy guys in the first place. What about taking responsibility for deciding to wait? Is there coercion?[/Quote]

We're not psychics, there is no way to possibly know. But women I've known all my life, I see them doing this, and usually the cool and decent guy is oblivious to her past. Some men who do know, do it out of desperation and the undeniable need for some form of female companionship.

If broccoli is your least favorite food but you are in the desert and broccoli is the only thing to eat, you will eat that broccoli like it's the world's finest filet mignon.

I disagree. I have never had a one night's stand or even had casual sex BUT some women give it up in the first meeting for a number of reason....alcohol, broken heart...etc. etc....I know a friend who made a guy wait for six months for sex because she wants the man so bad and did not want to screw it up....go figure.[/Quote]

Alcohol and heartbreak are just excuses sluts make. I drink alcohol often, and guess what, I'm still responsible for all of my actions and don't blame booze for it. Imagine if I were to drive drunk and kill someone, "oh no officer, I was DRUNK and heartbroken, not my fault" . Alcohol is not LSD, you are still conscious when drunk and responsible for your actions.

This is very disturbing. I do not personally know a woman like this....most women form emotional attachments to men they have sex with. Men can compartmentalize-that is the reason why men have women they have sex with and women whom they would bring home for mom to meet....[/Quote]

Who cares? A woman who forms an emotional attachment to a dirtbag cad simply because he's "hot", is still not worth anyone's time.

With that said....I'm amazed at how often "nice" is a front for "I'm going to cheat on you until you find out, and then try to convince you that you are crazy for thinking I'm cheating on you." Or like here on LS, the number of guys who say they are decent, yet come here and bash women left and right. It's like they think women can't pick up that vibe out in real life??[/Quote]

Sorry, I just don't buy the idea that all women are Miss Cleo and can use their clairvoyance to see my posts on Loveshack.org. The most violently misogynistic men I have met in real life, have all been men with lots of experience and success with women. Why don't you read Lord Byron's opinion of women. Some of these guys say it right to a woman's face too, but guess what, they're still "HOT", so it doesn't matter. My buddy paul is a "hot guy" who scores with women all the time, he refers to women as "bitches" right to their face (in a 'semi joking' way, but still you can tell he means it deep down), it doesn't stop them from throwing their panties at him.

January 4, 2010

They're guys who were nice guys their entire lives and it was teh first time women woudl ever give them the time of day, so it's all they knew.

People who put their lives on hold for careers are commitmentphobes. I went to law school, I know many female lawyers, and the ones who work at big firms are very open that they are commitmentphobic.

I agree with you. I am a lawyer myself and most of my other single male lawyer friends think that female lawyers are not suitable mates. It's a masculine profession and the women tend to be bossy and very selfish/self-centered. Any guy who generally considers female lawyers to be the best romantic partners probably hasn't met very many of them.

January 4, 2010

Sorry, I just don't buy the idea that all women are Miss Cleo and can use their clairvoyance to see my posts on Loveshack.org. The most violently misogynistic men I have met in real life, have all been men with lots of experience and success with women. Why don't you read Lord Byron's opinion of women. Some of these guys say it right to a woman's face too, but guess what, they're still "HOT", so it doesn't matter. My buddy paul is a "hot guy" who scores with women all the time, he refers to women as "bitches" right to their face (in a 'semi joking' way, but still you can tell he means it deep down), it doesn't stop them from throwing their panties at him.

You'd be amazed at what subtleties people can pick up on. Regardless, if a guy called me a biotch to my face, he's probably end up with a stiletto in his eye. I don't care if he's a cross between Tom Cruise and Brad Pitt...geez. More than likely men like the ones you are discussing are only attracting exceptionally unstable women. Who cares? Let the unstable ones go after each other. How does that shrink your own dating pool if you are as "decent" and "enlightened" as you like to think you are?

January 4, 2010

We're not psychics, there is no way to possibly know. But women I've known all my life, I see them doing this, and usually the cool and decent guy is oblivious to her past. Some men who do know, do it out of desperation and the undeniable need for some form of female companionship.

If broccoli is your least favorite food but you are in the desert and broccoli is the only thing to eat, you will eat that broccoli like it's the world's finest filet mignon.

If it's a matter of survival, yes, that only makes sense....so to you it is a matter of survival? you are saying you have no choice? that all the women you have met are like this....so what do YOU think you should do given your choices? stay single? not ever be with any woman?

Alcohol and heartbreak are just excuses sluts make. I drink alcohol often, and guess what, I'm still responsible for all of my actions and don't blame booze for it. Imagine if I were to drive drunk and kill someone, "oh no officer, I was DRUNK and heartbroken, not my fault" . Alcohol is not LSD, you are still conscious when drunk and responsible for your actions.

I agree to some extent....BUT studies show alcohol lowers one's inhibitions...it is a chemical that alters the mind, you know . But what do I know, I do not drink alcohol.

Who cares? A woman who forms an emotional attachment to a dirtbag cad simply because he's "hot", is still not worth anyone's time.

Right, who cares! But apparently, you do care because you brought it up and you seem really passionate about your argument and denouncing them...like it is a personal upfront to you? I mean, shouldn't you be indifferent?

January 4, 2010

But saying women have all these emotional attachments with sex is laughable...

What? Are you kidding? Your statement is the silly one! Most women end up in FWB situations with men who are lukewarm about them, kidding themselves into thinking that if they sleep together

a) she will be able to keep it cool and emotionally detached

b) the guy might come around in time

Well they fail miserably on both counts because FWB is never what women want out of it, which is secretly for the guy to offer them a chance to be in relationship with them. What women say outwardly and what they really feel. Two completely different things. They are emotionally invested even before they sleep with the guy, though they lie to themselves otherwise.

Goodin to answer your question, I have changed significantly over the years I am 38 and there is an element of truth to what you said in the OP, at least for me there was. Until I was about 25 all I was only interested in was snowboarder, skater, surfer types. Were they bad boys? Perhaps, they were too cool for their own good, I rejected any guy who did not look sound and dress and play the part of what I just mentioned. I dated a pro skater(by skater I mean skateboard not gaylord figure skaters lol) and plenty snow boarders. I grew out of that eventually and as my career started to take off and I began to mature so did my tastes in men.

So yes at the stupid ages of under 25 I wanted a certain kind of guy then as I got close to my 30's I changed drastically and liked more yuppy/preppy with an edge type guys. Still do.

Edited January 4, 2010 by InspiredbyYou

January 4, 2010

You'd be amazed at what subtleties people can pick up on. Regardless, if a guy called me a biotch to my face, he's probably end up with a stiletto in his eye. I don't care if he's a cross between Tom Cruise and Brad Pitt...geez. More than likely men like the ones you are discussing are only attracting exceptionally unstable women. Who cares? Let the unstable ones go after each other. How does that shrink your own dating pool if you are as "decent" and "enlightened" as you like to think you are?

It's not just "unstable women" unless you mean all women are unstable. Most guys here will find most women are like that.

It shrinks my dating pool because almost all the women my age fall under your definition of "unstable women". The ones who are nice girls who like real men and value guys like me, are already taken or not physically attracted to me. If there were more women like that, instead of how few there are, it would mean more girls and hence a greater chance of finding someone.

If it's a matter of survival, yes, that only makes sense....so to you it is a matter of survival? you are saying you have no choice? that all the women you have met are like this....so what do YOU think you should do given your choices? stay single? not ever be with any woman?[/Quote]

I don't have a choice, no. It's not a matter of survival, but not having a meaningful female to touch or carress for 6 months to a year at a time is pretty painful emotionally and physically for a young man.

What should I do given my choices? Nothing. Nothing I can do, I can't change the world. My goal is to leave America for one of the countries I've visisted and lived in and noticed how different the women (and people in general) are, and hopefully there I will be able to get married and have a family. I wouldn't mind having something in the mean time while I raise funds for my big move though, it could take anywhere from 2-5 years (I'm broke), but que sera sera.

I agree to some extent....BUT studies show alcohol lowers one's inhibitions...it is a chemical that alters the mind, you know . But what do I know, I do not drink alcohol.[/Quote]

It lowers your inhibitions to an extent, true, but that only means that deep down you are whatever alcohol brings out in you. A pedophile with strong inhibitions who never acts on his urges, is still a pedophile and should be kept far away from children. Ditto for a slut who has strong inhibitions and only falls of the bandwagon "once or twice" when drinking alcohol.

Right, who cares! But apparently, you do care because you brought it up and you seem really passionate about your argument and denouncing them...like it is a personal upfront to you? I mean, shouldn't you be indifferent?[/Quote]

Because all the women are taken, sluts, or too picky. I'm very passionate because it hinders my romantic life.

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