Does it change when women get to their 30's?

[stillafool]

Maybe it wasn't you but I remember one time a man was osting about being cheated on and you ask how it feels when the shoe is on the other foot.

 

If I said that it is because he had cheated first and now she has cheated on him. Yes how does that feel. I am never for the cheaters on this forum or in life.

[cognac]

that was suposed to say:

 

The Swiss are not born into war culture.

 

You'd be surprised, the Swiss have one of the greatest militaries in the world. The reason they haven't been in too many wars is because of all their natural barriers and defenses.

[thegreatmoose]

You'd be surprised, the Swiss have one of the greatest militaries in the world. The reason they haven't been in too many wars is because of all their natural barriers and defenses.

Natural barriers and defense???? No, the main reason is they intentionally remain neutral and have a long history of doing so.

[Stockalone]

You are going to compare Switzerland to Israel? Read the posts you didn't get what was being discussed.

 

Swiss culture is not born into war Stockalone.

 

that was suposed to say:

 

The Swiss are not born into war culture.

 

I am not comparing the situation in Switzerland to that in Israel. But, like in Israel, Military service for men (in Israel it's for men and women) is obligatory.

 

My point was that Switzerland does have a military, and that it detaches soldiers to participate in police missions like that in the former Yugoslavia.

 

Also, Switzerland's military service is similar in structure (conscripts, annual reservist training, etc.) to that of Israel. In Germany, we call it "citizen in uniform".

 

 

Apology accepted because you are totally mistaken, he is talking about SELECTIVE SERVICE not about becoming a soldier willingly.

You went off on a tangent and clearly did not read his post.

 

I understood what he was talking about. But he made it sound like he is going to be drafted tomorrow and shipped off to Helmland to Kandahar the day after that.

 

I can see why he would feel treated unfairly if only men can be drafted and women are "spared".

 

Personally, I liked the military better without women (only medical personnel). Women do their jobs just fine, it's not that they can't do what a man does, I just liked it better before.

 

In my country, women are off the hook as they have to do nothing while men have to do compulsory military service or if they are "recognized objectors" an alternative service (working in hospitals, retirement homes, etc.). Or they can join a volunteer fire brigade or emergency services.

 

Women should have to do the same. But it's not going to happen. It's more likely that the compulsory military service for men will be abandoned.

 

 

It's not hypoethical because I still have to register for the selective service and women do not. Why would they have me register for something that doesn't exist? If they reinstate the draft, then men will be drafted, based upon the selective service, which men have to sign up with, and women do not. Making me a lesser citizen than women are because they're not subjected to the penalties of not signing up, nor are they at risk of being drafted like I am, and many politicians talk about bringing back the draft, and the draft has been used many times in history, and many tens of thousands of drafted american men have been killed.

 

Sure, if they reinstate the draft, that could happen. Do you honestly believe that will happen?

 

As a foreigner, I can only follow the media and I don't know what Americans actually think, but I can't imagine the U.S. reinstating the draft. Wouldn't that be political suicide to try and reinstate the draft? I thought that public opinion is largely negative.

 

 

Read Wilfred Owen and his poem and tell me that dying for your country "isn't that bad"

 

That is my personal opinion. People shouldn't be eager to die for their country, but there are worse things than dying for your country.

Edited January 7, 2010 by Stockalone

[BUENG1]

no, you complained about women not having to register. being a consciencious objector is fair enough I think, depends on what sort of war you would be expected to fight (maybe harder to justify if someone is actually bombing your country).

 

but saying that just because you have a misfortune - especially something that's specifically related to your gender - others should suffer as well doesn't sound very good.

 

It's not a misfortune, its a responsibility as a citizen to whatever nation you reside in. And those who want women to be drafted, want women to share equally in this responsibility. Despite your attempts to shame them "into not expressing this view in public" there is nothing vile about this position.

As to what if the women can't pass the tests and serve satisfactorily? Well then they would do something else, sit behind a desk, be a mechanic of some sort, work in a cafeteria, work in a hospital for wounded soldiers(no fun either) etc etc. Just like those who are handicapped in some( or just want to do those jobs) do.

Edited January 7, 2010 by BUENG1

[burning 4 revenge]

I am not comparing the situation in Switzerland to that in Israel. But, like in Israel, Military service for men (in Israel it's for men and women) is obligatory.

 

My point was that Switzerland does have a military, and that it detaches soldiers to participate in police missions like that in the former Yugoslavia.

 

Also, Switzerland's military service is similar in structure (conscripts, annual reservist training, etc.) to that of Israel. In Germany, we call it "citizen in uniform".

 

 

 

 

I understood what he was talking about. But he made it sound like he is going to be drafted tomorrow and shipped off to Helmland to Kandahar the day after that.

 

I can see why he would feel treated unfairly if only men can be drafted and women are "spared".

 

Personally, I liked the military better without women (only medical personnel). Women do their jobs just fine, it's not that they can't do what a man does, I just liked it better before.

If your country is Germany then I like your military better now than before

[GorillaTheater]

If your country is Germany then I like your military better now than before

 

Although their uniforms were cooler then. A little homoerotic maybe, but cool.

[burning 4 revenge]

Although their uniforms were cooler then. A little homoerotic maybe, but cool.

Haha, yes

 

Theres something to be said for black with splashes of red

 

The Italian Fascists were no slouches either. I think Im going to get some Mussolini T-shirts to wear around town this summer

 

Man I wish I could splurge on a fashionable leather jacket...not one of those corny moorcylce ones either, but a good one

[Woggle]

If I said that it is because he had cheated first and now she has cheated on him. Yes how does that feel. I am never for the cheaters on this forum or in life.

 

I can't recall but I remember a post from you cheerleading women who cheat.

[paddington bear]

Thing is most wars are started by men, most countries are ruled by men, most countries have more male politicians and most foreign policy is instigated and dictated by men. Why should women pick up the pieces of what men have over the course of history caused?

 

just throwing that in as a provocative comment! But I think there's a grain of truth in it and I think fair enough if particular countries were to decide that all citizens should be drafted or whatever if men and women are considered equal, but I'm guessing there might be a lot of complaints from men about that, should it happen, ranging from 'it's just not right for a woman to do that', or that women are worse soldiers than men, to those finding it hard enough to cope seeing their fellow soldiers die or be horribly injured, but finding it harder to see 'the weaker sex' go through that too, to the issue of people falling in love, getting distracted, making emotional as opposed to strategic decisions and the old chestnut as to who raises any children that there are, someone's got to stay home and look after them, can't have both mom and dad off fighting somewhere, either mom fights and dad stays home or vice versa.

 

I love how this thread started about women over 30 and has morphed into talking about Isreal's military policy vs Israels.

[BUENG1]

Thing is most wars are started by men, most countries are ruled by men, most countries have more male politicians and most foreign policy is instigated and dictated by men. Why should women pick up the pieces of what men have over the course of history caused?

 

Women are allowed to vote and hold public office in the USA. Should women not have to pay taxes either?

[Stockalone]

I think you are still missing my point.

 

Pretty much. But we are already OT, which is largely my fault. I think it's best if we try to get back to the equality issue.

 

 

You just said the EXACT same thing beta was complaining about.

 

True, because from a standpoint of equality, women should be doing the same. So if I am asked, I say they should be doing the same.

 

Then again, I don't feel mistreated because women currently don't have to do the same thing.

[paddington bear]

Women are allowed to vote and hold public office in the USA. Should women not have to pay taxes either?

 

No taxes would be GREAT! My point is that, while yes, there are women in politics, it is a male-dominated arena still, even in democratic societies, so we can only vote for what we're given. And as I said, it was a provocative comment, read the rest of the post.

 

Having said that, look at the microcosm of relationships and misunderstanding between men and women within that. Look at how men and women are genetically and hormonally and culturally different and then take that into the greater world, some of those differences are bound to remain no matter how much we strive for true equality. I'm not saying that women should not go to war, I guess what I'm saying is that each sex's strengths should be played up to and maybe war and military stuff is in general and simply more of a guy thing.

 

If I got drafted, I wouldn't whinge about it and would go and do what I was told (I would, however, be in a state of panic!!), but I'm not sure I'd be a very good addition to the miliarty team, some women would be, some not.

[Sam Spade]

Thing is most wars are started by men, most countries are ruled by men, most countries have more male politicians and most foreign policy is instigated and dictated by men.

.

 

That's probably because men are better in all of these things, so women should just stay out of it and go back to the kitchen.

 

You can't ask for equality only when it's beneficial for you. When is this basic point going to sink into your pretty, but sometimes surprisingly dumb heads ?

[Woggle]

If women ran the world we would have even more wars and they would never end because you know how women hold grudges.

[paddington bear]

That's probably because men are better in all of these things, so women should just stay out of it and go back to the kitchen.

 

You can't ask for equality only when it's beneficial for you. When is this basic point going to sink into your pretty, but sometimes surprisingly dumb heads ?

 

Lol!

 

Yeah you're right, we have asked for equality but an equality only when it's beneficial to us....And we're getting exactly what we want. I think that's pretty smart of us actually!!!

[cognac]

Women are not presidents because they are not born to lead. Men are, a very tiny portion of men to be exact (and no I don't include spoon-fed presidents like Boosh and Obama). Am I being politically incorrect, sure, but it's just the truth we don't want to admit. Of course, technically speaking, there are "women leaders", as in presidents of a parliament or whatever, but having a title called President doesn't make you a true leader, virtually every president alive today will be forgotten in 100 years. Leaders in my opinion are Napoleon, Julius Caesar, Benito Mussolini, Von Bismarck Charlemagne, Mao Zedong etc, love em or hate em , agree with them or not, they were real leaders who forever changed the course of human history and revolutionized their respective races/countries.

 

 

Women are underrepresented or non-existent in almost all noteworthy human events. Sure, war is one arena where women are underrepresented, but so is the invention of the automobile, the exploration of outerspace, the Greek philosophers who essentially laid the foundations for science, the discoverers of the New World, etc. Most of the greatest pushes forward for human kind were done either during a war, or out of the urgency to be prepared for war. The type of world women would create would be mired by mediocrity and stagnatation. The vast majority of women throughout history have never been able to break the mold of conformity and spiritually press forward into the unknown, which is full of secrets and advancements we cannot fathom until someone with brains and balls big enough takes the initiative to discover them .

Edited January 8, 2010 by cognac

[meerkat stew]

we have asked for equality but an equality only when it's beneficial to us....And we're getting exactly what we want. I think that's pretty smart of us actually!!!

 

Yay, I have found my first sig for Loveshack!

[burning 4 revenge]

What about Caligula?

 

It takes a pretty clever guy to get away with turning the Senate into a whorehouse....

 

..well... a literal whorehouse anyways.....

[meerkat stew]

Thing is most wars are started by men, most countries are ruled by men, most countries have more male politicians and most foreign policy is instigated and dictated by men. Why should women pick up the pieces of what men have over the course of history caused?

 

Not -most- but -all- wars have been started by men according to one way of looking at it, including the American Revolution. But you forgot the flipside, all hostile aggression has been defended by men also. How'd you manage to forget that part? Seems like everyone who starts off on the tack of "most wars are started by men" (an argument I've heard lots in my life) forgets that. Wonder why that is?

 

Those folks also neglect to mention that men are responsible for most all technology, art, literature, music, spirituality, human rights, science, architecture, engineering, mathematics, poetry, astronomy, free enterprise, philosophy... pretty much every invention and social institution that makes our lives not so nasty, brutish and short. Why don't they talk about that when bringing up all the wars that men start?

 

Or is the statement I made unfair? Could men have done any of those things without women? (maybe they could have gotten to discovering fire in a single generation of survival, but not much further ) And if women share equal credit for all these human achievements, is it possible that they also share equal responsibility for human mistakes and failures? Are you really comfortable saying that "men start all the wars" after all?

[C-i-C-u]

Do women change in their 30s...you tell me with this article that I believe accurately portrays women in thier teens, 20s and 30s.

THE charred remains of a Playboy model have been found dumped in a blazing rubbish bin.

 

Brunette Paula Sladewski - last seen arguing with her boyfriend in a nightclub - was so badly burned murder detectives had to use dental records to identify her.

The stripper, 26, who starred in Playboy: The Ultimate Playmate Search, had been on holiday in Miami with her fella Kevin Klym.

 

Bin ... where Paula's body was found

 

The couple went to see singer Lady GaGa perform at a concert on New Year's Eve and then spent several days touring the Florida city's bars and clubs.

Klym reported Paula missing the morning after they had a bust-up at Space nightclub.

Her body was discovered that evening by a passer-by who saw flames coming from the skip.

 

Show ... Lady GaGa

 

Cops believe she was killed before her body was set on fire in an attempt to hide her identity.

Labourer Klym, 34, is said to have had a "volatile" relationship with Paula.

He told officers he had wanted her to leave the club because she was "too drunk" and he returned to their hotel alone.

Cops named him as a "person of interest" in the murder hunt.

The model's family claimed Klym broke her nose during a recent domestic dispute and neighbours at their home in a Los Angeles suburb reported hearing frequent rows.

 

 

 

 

They also claimed Paula feared Klym would kill her. Stepdad Richard Watkins told last night how she would text a former boyfriend saying "help me, I'm in trouble, he's trying to kill me".

Klym's lawyer insists his client had "no involvement" with the death.

Paula's murder mirrors fellow Playboy model Jasmine Fiore, 28, who was butchered then dumped in a bin last year. Her killer husband later committed suicide.

 

 

Read more: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2799627/Playboy-models-remains-found-dumped-in-a-blazing-rubbish-bin.html#ixzz0c1dYuTME

[DiscoChick]

^^ Lady Gaga's music is horrible enough to make anyone kill. LOL. Well, I don't understand this whole grouping women by years. I'll be 24 in a whole two weeks, and I know what I want in a relationship. I am not looking to get married (not within the next five years). I want someone that understands my plans and can be beneficial to me just as well as I am beneficial to him.

[paddington bear]

Not -most- but -all- wars have been started by men according to one way of looking at it, including the American Revolution. But you forgot the flipside, all hostile aggression has been defended by men also. How'd you manage to forget that part? Seems like everyone who starts off on the tack of "most wars are started by men" (an argument I've heard lots in my life) forgets that. Wonder why that is?

 

Those folks also neglect to mention that men are responsible for most all technology, art, literature, music, spirituality, human rights, science, architecture, engineering, mathematics, poetry, astronomy, free enterprise, philosophy... pretty much every invention and social institution that makes our lives not so nasty, brutish and short. Why don't they talk about that when bringing up all the wars that men start?

 

Or is the statement I made unfair? Could men have done any of those things without women? (maybe they could have gotten to discovering fire in a single generation of survival, but not much further ) And if women share equal credit for all these human achievements, is it possible that they also share equal responsibility for human mistakes and failures? Are you really comfortable saying that "men start all the wars" after all?

 

Yes it is unfair...because until the women's rights movement began women did not have the vote, women were second class citizens, women were not given the same education as men or the rights and knowledge to become inventors, great artists and so on. And this still goes on today outside of the Western World and it is a shame, because there are some very talented women out there and who knows what they could do, given the chance - that is true equality, to be given the same right to work, to education, to vote. Basically to have the same input into society as men.

 

I don't follow the 'if women ruled the world' theory that everything would be hunky dory (someone pointed out the holding a grudge thing...just look at the nightmare that Margaret Thatcher was).

 

I am just pointing out that over the course of history when women could not, and were not allowed to hold any kind of positions of power or influence and were not educated to that same degree as men, that, much of the fall-out from history is due to the actions of men because it could not be any other way at that point in time.

 

Ultimately, and paradoxically it was war itself that started the women's rights movement, while men were off at the first and second world war women were drafted in to do their jobs and found they could do it, enjoyed it and thus war in that instance was actually beneficial to women getting out of the house and being productive members of society and being allowed to use skills other than cooking, cleaning and child-rearing. The first and second world wars and also the invention of the pill really changed things.

 

The pill allowed women to not have child after child thus keeping them tied to the home and having children, it allowed them the choice not to do that if they so wished. Without the pill and other forms of effective contraception I wonder where women would be today in terms of equality - I reckon things would be much harder and the dating world as we know it today would be much more old-fashioned, as in: if you want to have sex with her, you have to marry her, because women would still be reliant on men as the sole providers in order to pay for numerous children.

[betamanlet]

Yes it is unfair...because until the women's rights movement began women did not have the vote, women were second class citizens, women were not given the same education as men or the rights and knowledge to become inventors, great artists and so on. And this still goes on today outside of the Western World and it is a shame, because there are some very talented women out there and who knows what they could do, given the chance - that is true equality, to be given the same right to work, to education, to vote. Basically to have the same input into society as men.

 

I don't follow the 'if women ruled the world' theory that everything would be hunky dory (someone pointed out the holding a grudge thing...just look at the nightmare that Margaret Thatcher was).

 

I am just pointing out that over the course of history when women could not, and were not allowed to hold any kind of positions of power or influence and were not educated to that same degree as men, that, much of the fall-out from history is due to the actions of men because it could not be any other way at that point in time.

 

Ultimately, and paradoxically it was war itself that started the women's rights movement, while men were off at the first and second world war women were drafted in to do their jobs and found they could do it, enjoyed it and thus war in that instance was actually beneficial to women getting out of the house and being productive members of society and being allowed to use skills other than cooking, cleaning and child-rearing. The first and second world wars and also the invention of the pill really changed things.

 

The pill allowed women to not have child after child thus keeping them tied to the home and having children, it allowed them the choice not to do that if they so wished. Without the pill and other forms of effective contraception I wonder where women would be today in terms of equality - I reckon things would be much harder and the dating world as we know it today would be much more old-fashioned, as in: if you want to have sex with her, you have to marry her, because women would still be reliant on men as the sole providers in order to pay for numerous children.

Don't you think that women have gone beyond equality to being more equal?

 

Women pay the same taxes, they have all the rights that men have, but don't have the responsibility to have to register with the selective service.

 

Women have the only and final say in whether there's an abortion or child support being paid.

 

Seems like men have fewer rights than women, or women have fewer responsibilities than men do.

[paddington bear]

Don't you think that women have gone beyond equality to being more equal?

 

Women pay the same taxes, they have all the rights that men have, but don't have the responsibility to have to register with the selective service.

 

Women have the only and final say in whether there's an abortion or child support being paid.

 

Seems like men have fewer rights than women, or women have fewer responsibilities than men do.

 

I actually do agree that things are pretty good now for women and in some areas men are getting hard-done-by. Although, statistically women still get paid less for doing the same jobs as men. We pay more for the same products - like deodorant etc! Women still have a hard time breaking through the glass ceiling in work, which may account for the women who do make it to the top often being complete hard-line b***chs because they have to be that way, otherwise they'd be trampled over.

 

In all honesty I think that the issue of children will always make things difficult - career woman wants to keep career and have children, either finds after having children that she wants to stay home and watch them grow up and be a mom, or finds that raising children and working is all too stressful and her work suffers.

 

The abortion issue is a very tricky one. I can't imagine desperately wanting an abortion, but the father of the child wanting me to keep the child. Because he doesn't have to go through the physical things, doesn't have to carry an unwanted child for 9 months and go through the pain of giving birth, it's a difficult situation because ultimately we should all have the right to make decisions about our own bodies, and for those 9 months that child is that woman's body. I see your point totally, it must be heartbreaking for some guys to find out that they've no say in whether their child lives or dies.

 

I also think the current system where 'children should stay with their mother's' standard post-divorce is totally unfair on men.

 

You may remember this female moutain-climber who was climbing Everest or some such and died en route, as many mountaineers do. And there was an outcry, because she was a mother. She was labelled selfish for pursuing such a thing, that she'd left her children without a mother. But no one says this of men who climb mountains or enlist in the army 'how selfish of you, if you die you will leave your children without a father'. So, we all still have some ingrained thinking about women's role in society - which in fact, might not be a bad thing, again, I'm for equality, but with a balance of celebrating each sex's differences and qualities within those differences.

 

Men and women are not the same hormonally, strength-wise and even how we use our brains. Personally I don't like this homogonisation of the sexes. Men's good qualities should be celebrated as should women's without a woman trying to be a man or a man try to be a woman. I don't want a man who is essentially a woman with a penis, and yet at the same time, some of the things that have changed are good, one instance, it is good that men are stepping up to the plate a bit more with childcare and housework etc. since many households have both partners working, so that you don't have women working and doing all that stuff as well with no help from her other half.

 

I do feel things have swung perhaps too far on the other side in terms of men being de-mannified if you like, having to be more like women, which I don't think is a good thing. Also in terms of the many threads on here about how difficult the dating world is, I think a lot of that has to do with men's confusion with their place in the world right now. I think this period in history, in the western world is a difficult time for men and I'm guessing that things may swing back the other way, as there will eventually be a backlash against any disparity.

 

The rate of suicide in young men is much higher than for women, and I wonder sometimes if this confusion about what it is to be a man is part of the cause.