Does it change when women get to their 30's?

January 6, 2010

A

Yes, female 30-somethings have lower standards for men vis a vis the expectations of female 20-somethings; the bargaining power of female 30-somethings is diminishing more rapidly than that of their male peers.

Ahhh no we don't actually we have much higher standards in fact!

this is also the reason why I am quite happy, ecstatic in fact, to stay VERY single in between relationships and for as long as it takes until I find the man I desire to be with.

My bargaining power has never been stronger, this is also due to the fact that I can smell crap a mile away but mostly due to knowing myself very well, I know what will work for me and what won't therefore I never settle.

Most women who have enough to offer in their 30's pretty much operate this way.

January 6, 2010

If your dad is so great how come you ended up such a misandrist? Also your father is from a different era. Today he would be considered a bore and women will feel like they settled if they ended up with him.

I am not a misandrist. Where did you get that from??? I love, love, love men and always have. My father taught me to be a fair, honest person and to live with integrity. He also taught me not to blame others for my mistakes and problems.

BTW, he has been remarried going on 5 years. So at 77 he didn't have any problems attracting a nice lady who wanted to marry him. She was 62.

January 6, 2010

Ahhh no we don't actually we have much higher standards in fact!
this is also the reason why I am quite happy, ecstatic in fact, to stay VERY single in between relationships and for as long as it takes until I find the man I desire to be with.

My bargaining power has never been stronger, this is also due to the fact that I can smell crap a mile away but mostly due to knowing myself very well, I know what will work for me and what won't therefore I never settle.
Most women who have enough to offer in their 30's pretty much operate this way.

Ah, yes I remember my 30's. It was a wonderful time. You are probably having the time of your life being single.

January 6, 2010

Ah, in fairness I have never known women to think of men as pigs when they do not understand our needs; we refer to them as pigs when they rut around where they know they do not belong.

January 6, 2010

You said yourself that men have been treating women this way for years so men should expect to be treated the same. To be quite honest you strike me as a misandrist and I would respect you if you came right out and said it. I would not be surprised if you were silently clapping while reading some of these cheating women threads.

Expecting something is not the same as deserving it. If I see a large nuclear explosion a mile away, I should expect to die -- not deserve to die.

You seem to think half the women on LS are misandrists. I'm no man-hater, but I do take issue with these insecure, self-loathing men on LS blaming all their failures with women on women, by insulting and degrading the subset of women that threatens them most. I especially take issue with these men advocating shoving women back in the dark ages where they have no options and will be much less of a threat and constant reminder of their own inadequacies. These guys are starting to sound as pathetic and dated as the straggling racists clinging to the good ole slave days. Dudes. Evolve.

What songs today truly express love between men and women? I can't think of any that are well known.

The ones I am thinking of are mostly in the independent music realm. A couple that come to mind are "I Will Follow You into the Dark" by Death Cab for Cutie and "From the Top of the World" by My Brightest Diamond.

January 6, 2010

Yes, but just think, you are on the verge of winning the internet! Yay!

Ok that cracks me up every time! Is it like reaching the end of the internet? Because i could assure you a few times on these discussions and the things I read I really do feel like I have reached the end of the internet.

Cool, we are still on for the Farmer's Market. Actually did some googling on Mr. Grant. His first two wives claimed that he -was- actually gay, and a later wife when asked said "I didn't have time to wonder about that, we were too busy f*cking" :lmao: He -did- "live with" a guy in old age, apparently, also experimented with LSD in the 60s and claimed it was the best therapy he'd ever had.

I wouldn't miss it! In the 60's people took acid to make the world seem weird, today we live in a world that is totally weird and people take antidepressants to make it seem normal.

Male experience in the current workplace comes from very real and massive financial and penal (not just penile ) consequences. Women need to walk a mile in prison overalls (or know of a man, or in my case know of 1000 men who have) before assuming the comparison you make above is valid. I watched a law firm pay out $1,000,000, for example to make a single ass-pat "go away" when it may have actually been inadvertent. How many women undergo punishment for -anything- to a similar degree?

I understand that there IS a huge double standard, women don't go to court for sexual harassment claims, for the most part. I get that!

I suppose that is the price to pay for being the more "careless" gender. goes back to my theory about men and their inability to be discerning when it comes to sex. If men had better control, no one would have to pay $1,000,000 for any wrongful charges.

Just sayin'.....Guaranteed this never happens to the type of guy who tends to be more reserved. I think this happens a lot more to arrogant outspoken men who have let their success get to their heads and who also tend to have a grandiose complex. You know the types, the kinds that think they can literally get away with murder. that's my perception at least I could be way off.

Ok, you caught me, the true number is really 43.70952% I have a friend who was recently called an abusive alcoholic in divorce court by his wife. The guy is a saint who comes home and drinks 2-3 light beers after work. It takes a callous woman to sully her kids by having them claim that "daddy touched the naughty place," but it is pervasive.

I dunnow....2-3 "light beers after work?" if he says 2-3 it's more like 5-6 and who knows how these people are behind closed doors and when they are drinking. You would be surprised the number of "functioning" alcoholics that are out there and how well they mask that they indeed have a problem. I am not saying that your example WAS an alchy but there are always two sides. A person who is having marital issues may drink to escape and in fact end up inviting more drama into their lives, maybe this is why she considered him an alcoholic. Or maybe she just wanted to drag him through the coals, I never could understand the motive of exwives to do their men in unless there was some sort of revenge for maldoing on his part. I have asked my guy plenty times "why did you ex do this to you after the divorce why was she so vindictive and try to ruin you like that you MUST have done something to really piss her off, I can't imagine how people go from loving and sharing a life together and parenting children to treating each other worse than you would treat a child molester!?!? You did love one another at one point, so how could you go so extreme with no real motive?

I mean I've had bad breaks so I GET the concept of love to hate, but when there are children involved how self-centered and selfish do you have to be to jeopardize your children lives for your petty needs!

.

Nope, I'm sure men do it, have enough divorced friends and acquaintances to know that they do. Also know that women tend to do it -more, much more- as a matter of course during the "rallying of the troops" and "side forming" when a relationship or marriage ends.

You are probably right, women can be real snakes I know that for fact, much moreso than men. Though in all honestly I have met from both camps at least with women you see it coming, men tend to be way more underhanded.

There seems to be some innate rationalization and blame avoidance mechanism in the feminine psyche having to do with women internalizing and personalizing more than men.

ditto for men, so.....

what oprah study?

I will make a 100 bajillion dollar bet and say that you have probably been out with more than 1 guy who treated you far worse than even the most "violent mysoginist" here would. But you stuck by him and took it, because he waz liek rally hot and tall.

I have NEVER EVER been with a man who mistreated me or abused me. I have always been very selective when it came to men, sure I've gone out with ding bat short term men that were probably not good long term prospects but I have never EVER been emotionally involved with a man who was abusive in any shape way or form. I do not compromise in that respect and I take NO crap whatsoever, I will dump a guy like there is not tomorrow if I see any signs of abuse. I will tell you this though, the man that broke my heart and in the end turned out to be the biggest deception of all also happened to be the shortest and least attractive man I have ever been with. One of my exes the one I was with the longest (7yrs+) who also happened to be the best boyfriend I had in many respects, people tell me resembled an older version of Brody Jenner.

Looks and personality have absolutely DICK to do with how people are in relationships, if you love yourself you will also love your partner accordingly.

January 6, 2010

You'd be surprised.

Just read what "the greatmoose" posts.

Any man that supports feminism either has self hatred issues or has no clue what it is really about.

That's the best you two can do? Do you really expect women to like you with that kind of attitude?

January 6, 2010

Ah, yes I remember my 30's. It was a wonderful time. You are probably having the time of your life being single.

You are not much older than that yourself are you? I am sure you are more selective as you have gotten older as well.

I am seeing someone these days Still (you should seriously consider changing your name it SO does not match! ) but when I am not I am fine with it.

Overall I am just happy either way, because of this I don't panic when I am single and tend to make less knee-jerk decisions about entering relationships. I either date (meaning a few dates with the same guy) or it ends up being a long term relationship there is no gray for me in this respect. My shortest relationship was 3 yrs.

I take full responsibility for my choices, good or bad, and so that's how they pan out.

January 6, 2010

Looks and personality have absolutely DICK to do with how people are in relationships, if you love yourself you will also love your partner accordingly.

Oops I meant Looks have absolutely DICK to do.....with the success of the relationship.

I worded if funny the first time around.

January 6, 2010

my only issue with the women's movement is that when they seek "equality" it's only at the top. I've heard that they want 50% of executives, more female elected politicians (as if you can tell people who they must vote for), yet never are there pushes to have more female garbagement, more female janitors, nor is there any push for more male teachers, etc.. The equality is only sought for at the top, highest positions, and not the ones that men have had to slave over for hundreds of years, doing unpleasant work, that is considered low status, and possibly low pay. Why only equality at the top? Is that really equality?

Is it equality to keep women from reaching the "top"? Are women to only strive for the lowest? Wouldn't you want your daughter to go as far as her brain will take her or would you rather see her scrubbing floors?

January 6, 2010

You are not much older than that yourself are you? I am sure you are more selective as you have gotten older as well.

I am seeing someone these days Still (you should seriously consider changing your name it SO does not match! ) but when I am not I am fine with it.
Overall I am just happy either way, because of this I don't panic when I am single and tend to make less knee-jerk decisions about entering relationships. I either date (meaning a few dates with the same guy) or it ends up being a long term relationship there is no gray for me in this respect. My shortest relationship was 3 yrs.
I take full responsibility for my choices, good or bad, and so that's how they pan out.

Yes I did become more selective as I got older. I met my husband in my late 30's and married again by 40. I was much more capable of making the right decision about the kind of man I wanted to spend the rest of my life. I had been married before and was not in any hurry to settle down again and like you was not in a "panic" mode. I doubt if you will be single in your 40's. Enjoy you lucky lady you!

January 6, 2010

Ahhh no we don't actually we have much higher standards in fact!
this is also the reason why I am quite happy, ecstatic in fact, to stay VERY single in between relationships and for as long as it takes until I find the man I desire to be with.

My bargaining power has never been stronger, this is also due to the fact that I can smell crap a mile away but mostly due to knowing myself very well, I know what will work for me and what won't therefore I never settle.
Most women who have enough to offer in their 30's pretty much operate this way.

What I notice is women in their 30s (especially late 30s) are more selective in terms of personality and just about every other aspect that's not superficial. They as a whole do seem a bit less selective on the more superficial aspects.

I get a much higher respense rate from women in their late 30s as compared to women in their late 20s. I think it's at least somewhat because my profile makes it clear that I'm looking for a serious relationship.

January 6, 2010

I mean, for f*ck's sake, do you honestly believe that most woman would rather date an unemployed redneck with no long term career prospects than, say, a young cardiac surgeon?

Have seen some whoppers of straw men here, but this one takes the cake.

January 6, 2010

Ok that cracks me up every time! Is it like reaching the end of the internet? Because i could assure you a few times on these discussions and the things I read I really do feel like I have reached the end of the internet.

Some say the internet is flat, and we will eventually fall off the edge. Others say there are an infinite number of alternate internets existing simultaneously in the same space. If so, I just want to get to the one that doesn't feel like Walmart when I walk in the door.

I wouldn't miss it! In the 60's people took acid to make the world seem weird, today we live in a world that is totally weird and people take antidepressants to make it seem normal.

We took acid in the 70s and 80s to make Grateful Dead shows tolerable.

If men had better control, no one would have to pay $1,000,000 for any wrongful charges.

The "ass-patting" partner in question was a 65 y.o. guy with Parkinson's disease, so your statement is more apt than you realize.

I dunnow....2-3 "light beers after work?" if he says 2-3 it's more like 5-6 and who knows how these people are behind closed doors and when they are drinking.

Agree generally, but in this case, I had lived with the guy for 2 years in the past. He was a raging drinker in college (as many of us are), and I had seen him pound way too many beers on weekends, but once married and with a child, he calmed down -real- fast. We couldn't even get him to shoot up any more! There was more detail to that particular story that would clear things up, but my posts are long enough already.

I can't imagine how people go from loving and sharing a life together and parenting children to treating each other worse than you would treat a child molester!?!?

Lawyers.

what oprah study?

too lazy, and actually busy today, to dig it up. Someone posted it in the last 2.5 weeks, and it basically stated that the part of women's brains that governs how we personalize and internalize experience is larger than men's

I have NEVER EVER been with a man who mistreated me or abused me.

Out of curiousity, do you know many women who have been with physically abusive men?

Looks and personality have absolutely DICK to do with how people are in relationships, if you love yourself you will also love your partner accordingly.

For some reason the above gave me a split-second visual of Dick Clark. I disagree, though, we let gorgeous charmers get away with more generally, male and female, and if both partners perceive each other as gorgeous and charming, the relationship has a much better chance of success all other things equal.

Agree with the "loving yourself" part most emphatically.

January 6, 2010

Yes I did become more selective as I got older. I met my husband in my late 30's and married again by 40. I was much more capable of making the right decision about the kind of man I wanted to spend the rest of my life. I had been married before and was not in any hurry to settle down again and like you was not in a "panic" mode. I doubt if you will be single in your 40's. Enjoy you lucky lady you! [Wink]

Aww I love your story, whenever I hear of couples that found true love after 40 it's like music to my ears! It speaks loudly to me of men who actually want to find love and not just tend to their mid life crisis neurosis.

I dunnow about the "not single" in my 40's bit, we'll see. I am struggling a bit with this instant family situation I am in, I love kids LOVE them but this whole concept of acquiring another woman's family is really difficult and it's doing my head in a bit. Mostly because I just can't seem to find my place in it all, it just feels too much like I am intruding on someone else's life, ya know..? Also the idea that my guy and I come from very different pasts he and his ex lead an extremely affluent lifestyle financially speaking and I have seen some really ugly traits in these children including racist remarks and mean spirited entitlement comments (I don't fault them and I do like them a LOT, I fault her and what she teaches them - they live with her) that I can't seem to get past. I don't know how this will pan out long term...still very much in study mode so we'll see... either way when one door closes... I can always catch Curb Your Enthusiasm re-runs on TiVo

Out of curiousity, do you know many women who have been with physically abusive men?

As usual in reading your posts I laughed, I cried, and I laughed some more. It's like watching a really great film only slightly more work because I have to do all the cinematography myself, in my head.

I'll get down to the question because I am interested to see where it's going.

Yes I have known a couple. One I even witnesses as he slapped her across the face (it was almost a punch) as we all left a restaurant for a friend's b-day dinner. We were flabbergasted that he did this to her (she, an acquaintance of mine at the time, friend of a friend deal of someone there that night) and we tried to call the police at no avail because she begged us not to get the authorities involved. The friend of this girl called her a few days later and asked what the deal was with this guy and urged her to please get rid of him etc as any good friend would. Not only did she not get rid of him, and make excuses for his behavior, she proceeded to cut herself off from the entire group of friends and was married to him a few years later. She was a model, he was an inarticulate ignorant asshl (picture Jersey Shore cast but not cheesy looking) who looked nothing like what you would expect considering how stunning looking she was. Mind you here personality was flat, but she looked great.

This was a few years ago not recently.

I know you are quite adamant about the cliches people use online, but there's a reason why they get used relentlessly, they are just true. She did not love herself enough to believe she was worth having someone who truly respected her, and her boundaries. Her low self esteem clearly had nothing to do with her looks, she was stunning.

January 6, 2010

I am not a misandrist. Where did you get that from??? I love, love, love men and always have. My father taught me to be a fair, honest person and to live with integrity. He also taught me not to blame others for my mistakes and problems.

BTW, he has been remarried going on 5 years. So at 77 he didn't have any problems attracting a nice lady who wanted to marry him. She was 62.

You come across as a manhater.

January 6, 2010

I'll get down to the question because I am interested to see where it's going.

Haha, well you can probably tell, as a dedicated soldier in the political and economic sides of the U.S. gender wars, I believe most all of the "women as victim" dogma is light on facts at its core, but was just wondering really. You seem to have a more balanced attitude about gender issues, and I have a theory that people whose views aren't as balanced get that way due to the amount of misbehavior witnessed in their social network. Well, not so much a theory, mostly just common sense.

As far as your BFs children, most children are spoiled and overindulged these days. I rarely see quality children, most are just allowed to run wild and do whatever. Am glad I don't have them, as would be a very firm disciplinarian and that would likely end me up in jail these days for the "abuse" of spanking them.

PS thanks for the compliment, I enjoy your posts also.

January 7, 2010

Ah, yes I remember my 30's. It was a wonderful time. You are probably having the time of your life being single.

I really don't think that is true for most single women in their 30s who have never been married and want kids but are waiting for marriage to have kids. I think that a lot of women stress out about being single in their 30s because they fear that they aren't going to find a marriage-worthy man before their biological clock runs out.

January 7, 2010

What I notice is women in their 30s (especially late 30s) are more selective in terms of personality and just about every other aspect that's not superficial. They as a whole do seem a bit less selective on the more superficial aspects.
I get a much higher respense rate from women in their late 30s as compared to women in their late 20s. I think it's at least somewhat because my profile makes it clear that I'm looking for a serious relationship.

Holy crap are you crazy... OF COURSE! They have to be less picky about looks in their 40's. Most of them look like obese old saddle bags by that point.

I've met a small handful of women 40+ that have maintained their looks, and they are JUST as shallow as the younger women, or perhaps moreso because they expect $$$ too.

January 7, 2010

Holy crap are you crazy... OF COURSE! They have to be less picky about looks in their 40's. Most of them look like obese old saddle bags by that point.

I've met a small handful of women 40+ that have maintained their looks, and they are JUST as shallow as the younger women, or perhaps moreso because they expect $$$ too.

I have to agree with you there

If you look at the personals 40 plus women who have maintained their looks either want a guy at least ten years younger or a guy with $$$

January 7, 2010

I think that a lot of women stress out about being single in their 30s because they fear that they aren't going to find a marriage-worthy man before their biological clock runs out.

Pretty much all of my friends are in their 30s, and while all of us think about the kids thing, we aren't ruled by it.

It's still pretty much Fun Land every time we walk outside, with most men between the ages of 20-something and 50-something (and on up?) interested in us. In fact, at 33, I'm more confident, physically fit, and intellectually and emotionally strong than I was in my 20s, so I actually get more attention and interest from men now than I did back then.

There are those "I'm going to be alone forever, life sucks" moments, sure. But there's a lot of good stuff, too.

January 7, 2010

I really don't think that is true for most single women in their 30s who have never been married and want kids but are waiting for marriage to have kids. I think that a lot of women stress out about being single in their 30s because they fear that they aren't going to find a marriage-worthy man before their biological clock runs out.

I understand what you are saying. I've never wanted kids so didn't feel that pressure.

January 7, 2010

You come across as a manhater.

Why? Is it because I believe in equal rights for women? You come across as a woman hater but I know this couldn't be true because you seem happily married.

January 7, 2010

Why? Is it because I believe in equal rights for women? You come across as a woman hater but I know this couldn't be true because you seem happily married.

If you believe in equal rights for women, you would then no doubt support requiring women to register with the selective service?

If not, why should I pay the same taxes as you do if I am a lesser citizen because I am expected to die for my country if drafted, when you are not required to? If I do not register for the selective service, I can go to jail and be denied and student financial aid. This doesn't apply at all to women. Is that equality? When you say equal rights, you should I hope also say "equal responsibilities", otherwise just having the rights, without the resposibilities is not fair.

January 7, 2010

Believe it or not, I absolutely agree with you betamanlet.

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