Does it change when women get to their 30's?

January 5, 2010

I feel like I need to blame everyone in this thread last night, for my sleep deprivation hang-over! zzzzz...

Yes, but just think, you are on the verge of winning the internet! Yay!

You're right I was thinking of Rock the other hottie from that time!
We're back in business.

Cool, we are still on for the Farmer's Market. Actually did some googling on Mr. Grant. His first two wives claimed that he -was- actually gay, and a later wife when asked said "I didn't have time to wonder about that, we were too busy f*cking" :lmao: He -did- "live with" a guy in old age, apparently, also experimented with LSD in the 60s and claimed it was the best therapy he'd ever had.

I get it, not disputing you shouldn't tread carefully at work...Tricky times for sure but looking at the ridiculous amount of affairs the happen in the work place I have the hunch that people somehow manage to work around these rules anyway.

To clarify, once you are in the profession, so to speak, the world does change into a massive interplay of bad motives and a "parade of horribles." So my perspective may be more defensive than some, based on all the horrors I hear about from clients and other lawyers.

now men are crying because they have to make distinctions too? women have known the lines between what is appropriate or too much, is it too much to ask that men follow suit?

Male experience in the current workplace comes from very real and massive financial and penal (not just penile ) consequences. Women need to walk a mile in prison overalls (or know of a man, or in my case know of 1000 men who have) before assuming the comparison you make above is valid. I watched a law firm pay out $1,000,000, for example to make a single ass-pat "go away" when it may have actually been inadvertent. How many women undergo punishment for -anything- to a similar degree?

Kissing your woman without warning is not out of line

Until she says it is out of line, and then it's too late. Of course she can make stuff up (and go to divorce court one day to see this writ large on both sides).

I don't know Stew that seems rather high and quite a bold statement to make about what women and their dicey lawyers who are passing off innocent behaviors as predatory ones.

Ok, you caught me, the true number is really 43.70952% I have a friend who was recently called an abusive alcoholic in divorce court by his wife. The guy is a saint who comes home and drinks 2-3 light beers after work. It takes a callous woman to sully her kids by having them claim that "daddy touched the naughty place," but it is pervasive.

that's a good story, of why people shouldn't do drugs! ()

or why they should do so many drugs that they just don't care any more.

Any time you have any sort of interaction with any one human being you the run the risk of walking away and having your persona defamed to the other half of the world, do you think it's exclusive to men? It seems you are implying only women have a tendency to make crap up about men.

Nope, I'm sure men do it, have enough divorced friends and acquaintances to know that they do. Also know that women tend to do it -more, much more- as a matter of course during the "rallying of the troops" and "side forming" when a relationship or marriage ends.

And again, make that "do men change after they are 30?" thread and I will join in. As I've said before, am an equal opportunity misanthrope.

And as far as men taking blame, sure, no one is saintly and takes blame all the time where it's due. Men are bad about it, women are thoroughly notorious though, not even in the same ballpark in my experience. There seems to be some innate rationalization and blame avoidance mechanism in the feminine psyche having to do with women internalizing and personalizing more than men. Read that Oprah study someone (a female) posted around these parts recently, hilarious.

January 5, 2010

I'm not sure about that. I've had this discussion with low self esteem women, and it's partially about them thinking they don't deserve better, but it's still mostly about the entertainment level of the drama. They are happier with drama than without.

I know of plenty of women that would rather face the risk of periodic beatings than being bored. And yes, it's a self esteem thing, but it's not all based in "i'm worthless, I don't deserve better" there is also the "being treated well all the time is boring" aspect.

We do like passion in drama in realtionships at times but its mostly about looks for us sweetiepie

Ourwhole life is about beauty,wheter its our own or in Men its by far the single most important thing to us that a extreme hottie can make us blind and not see any faults becasue we admire beauty so much

My girl Ruby can and others here can testify hhw improtant looks are to us and cna control us,its just the way it is:love:

January 5, 2010

the only reason men don't date playboy models only is because they can't, as men get older they lose their looks and they become impotent and sexually useless.

Hmm, would counter that as men get older, their chances of dating playboy models actually increase due to becoming better looking and more wealthy. I have more opportunities with 20 somethings today at 45 than I ever had in my 20s, and not -just- from me whizzing up on my Rascal scooter, whacking them over the head with my cane, and sporting them off to my oxygen tent before they can scream for help... they usually approach me. They actually -LIKE- the graying hair, imagine that. Don't think I'm that odd based on what friends my age experience either.

I know, I know, it hurts to see the tables a turning for a woman on the other side of 30, hence the nasty "useless wingwang" digs . It's not so bad, IBY, with a good attitude, romance actually gets so much better after 40 for both men and women, despite all the griping from both sides, we are weak, whiny creatures by nature and culture after all.

January 5, 2010

But, how many men have dated the same way? Men are notorious for dating women because of their looks. Rich, powerful and educated men do this all the time. They date the prettiest women they can get. Why is it wrong when women do the same?

That's the thing... I don't think it is true that men attempt to get THE prettiest woman they can get, at least it is not true for me and my closest friends. All we care about is that she's not fat, and pretty enough to be sexually attractive, and that is all. If anything, I'd avoid a woman who is TOO pretty for a LTR or marriage, simply because pretty women are used to the star treatment throughout their entire lives and that can have negative effect even on the nicest of personalities.

All my girlfriends have been pretty, but none has been a "10" or a knockout, and most importantly, I've never enaged in a selection process rank ordering women by looks. As long as she's pretty enough to produce a boner, we're in business and I look no further .

As long as the basic attraction threshold is met, it is all about a girl's sweet attitude and personality...

January 5, 2010

Hmm, would counter that as men get older, their chances of dating playboy models actually increase due to becoming better looking and more wealthy. I have more opportunities with 20 somethings today at 45 than I ever had in my 20s, and not -just- from me whizzing up on my Rascal scooter, whacking them over the head with my cane, and sporting them off to my oxygen tent before they can scream for help... they usually approach me. They actually -LIKE- the graying hair, imagine that. Don't think I'm that odd based on what friends my age experience either.

Here's proof that men want a goodlooking young woman and that's okay but women are not suppose to want a goodlooking young man. Does that make sense?

January 5, 2010

Acknowledging opportunity doesn't necessarily equate to having a specific and overriding preference. Men and women make such observations and choices each day, both in everyday living as well as their romantic lives.

I've seen some of what MS is talking about but view those young ladies like I would a daughter. I can acknowledge their objective attractiveness and choose how to act on that realization.

January 5, 2010

I'm going to say it and end of story:

You guys with your extremist and victim attitudes just don't have what it takes to attract healthy attractive women, so unless you work on your attitudes you will never land the kind of women you desire.
The end.[/Quote]

Every action has a reaction.

It's pretty simple to common sense. Nobody wakes up one day and out of the blue decides to become what you call an "Extremist". We gain our feelings and prejudices in some cases (the case of the stupid) because of the media, but in other cases from personal experiences.

We feel this way because, despite being relatively good looking, with interesting personalities, with hearts of gold, and a lot to offer to those "healthy attractive women" you speak, they are still going to go for the scum of the earth simply because they are "hotter" than me. My attitude might prevent me from getting "Friendzoned" by women, but I don't want that anyway.

My generation and maybe up to betamanlet's, are a lost generation of men. We're a generation of men with women who don't love us, they love men for being tall or having a lot of material comfort. They love men for spending time in the salon every weekend getting their eyebrows done, or who spend 2 hours shopping for the trendiest and faggyest clothes. Victim mentality? To an extent. But it's still a really hurtful and ugly thing to live a place where man's traditional best friend has been replaced by the dog.

And no , the problem isn't me. While I'm not exactly george clooney in any place I go, I can find women in other countries who like me, are interested in me, are attracted to me etc. And why not? There's nothing inherently wrong with me, minus the fact that I don't spend hours a day on my looks. Old women always say "I wish I was younger", "I wish my daughter didn't have a boyfriend",etc when they meet me! The only people who think there is something wrong with me, are American women under 40.

That's the bottom line. I'm nothing special but I would rather poke my own eyes out than to have to go out with any guy that has issues as big as some of you show on here, so if I am nothing special and I feel this way imagine the special ladies you want to get with and how they feel?

I will make a 100 bajillion dollar bet and say that you have probably been out with more than 1 guy who treated you far worse than even the most "violent mysoginist" here would. But you stuck by him and took it, because he waz liek rally hot and tall.

They go for bad guys for flings but mostly have relationships with nice guys, because they want to be treated well. So they aren't just saying that. It has nothing to do with where anyone lives, you're probably going after the wrong women.[/Quote]

Women say this, and expect us to be relieved!!

So essentially what she is saying women want, is to be in a relationship with a guy who won't beat her up, take care of her when she's sick, enthrall her with interesting discussion, etc, but they still want to bang the low-iq neanderthal on the side

Do you really have that much trouble seeing as to why we don't see this as a desirable system?

Why don't you go for girls who don't like skateboarders or those type of guys?[/Quote]

Because it's not just about skateboarders. It's about the type of man the skateboarder embodies, a man who has nothing intellectual or spiritual to offer women, but is simply hot, wipes the floor with all the women in their 100 mile radius, while guys like me who are normal guys, decent looking, have an edge to us, but have a lot more to offer, get ignored. Most women would rather have random sex with the type of guy the skateboarder embodies, over being with me. This is especially true when monetary stability is not an issue such as in one's 20's, and even when women start looking for money instead of looks, I'm still going to lose because I'm actually lower-middle class and will most likely be most of my life.

Why don't you ask girls about their past before you even consider asking them out?[/Quote]

It's rude. But I do usually do my own research and without exception there is always a skeleton (or mass grave) in the closet.

Why are you upset because some girls like skateboarder types of whatever types, there's more than 1 girl in this world. Go out and find a different type of girl.[/Quote]

There are maybe 3 types of girls in the world. Girls who look for really hot guys, girls who look for rich/prestigious guys, and girls who are religious and aren't really looking for anyone.

None of those girls are for me.

Where are you looking to meet them? You cannot stop people from being attracted to who they are attracted to. Just find someone who is attracted to you and values the same things in a relationship as you.[/Quote]

Again, why do women give this advice? IF it was that simple, "just find someone who is attracted to you and values the same things", then I wouldn't even be posting her. It might be that simple for women, but for men it's NOT.

Stop hanging out in places where "bad ass" skateboarders and the women who love them hang out. Go to places where quieter girls hang out like church. Churches have so many activities and programs for single people. Join some type of place like this where you can meet girls who aren't into these type of guys. Don't hang out where "party girls" hang and expect them to want to settle down.[/Quote]

Well I don't hang out with "party girls" generally, and I think most religions just aren't for me. What do you want me to do, pretend to believe in the church I go to to meet these girls? Convert to a religion I don't even like, just to get a girl who may like me? Not to mention very religious women can be the opposite extreme of the party girl.

Is it so insane to want someone whose inbetween party girl and foundamentalist prude?

Not to mention I myself am not as clean cut and goody two shoes as I sound. I'm just a normal guy with some rebellious tendencies, some kind of combination of tradition with anarchy. Are women so boring that they only fall under 1 label or another?

January 5, 2010

Here's proof that men want a goodlooking young woman and that's okay but women are not suppose to want a goodlooking young man. Does that make sense?

Who says that?

I was a good looking young man once. I think.

at least enoguh to get me a chick in her late 30's.

January 5, 2010

I have more opportunities with 20 somethings today at 45 than I ever had in my 20s.

Here's proof that men want a goodlooking young woman and that's okay but women are not suppose to want a goodlooking young man. Does that make sense?

Well, it makes just as much sense as putting words in someone's mouth, I reckon. I have no qualms whatsoever about women wanting good looking young men, but do take issue with the number of women who hide their real preferences behind some platitude-ridden list of "character qualities" and then go right out and sleep with the tallest, best looking, most wealthy, most socially valuable man they can find time after time. Have preferences, own those preferences, and lots of these types of threads would go away.

Acknowledging opportunity doesn't necessarily equate to having a specific and overriding preference.

Exactly. My last 5 GFs were 45, 33, 23, 39 and 45. Incidentally, to the thread topic, the 23 y.o. was the most emotionally mature of all of them.

January 5, 2010

Well, it makes just as much sense as putting words in someone's mouth, I reckon. I have no qualms whatsoever about women wanting good looking young men, but do take issue with the number of women who hide their real preferences behind some platitude-ridden list of "character qualities" and then go right out and sleep with the tallest, best looking, most wealthy, most socially valuable man they can find time after time. Have preferences, own those preferences, and lots of these types of threads would go away.[/Quote]The worst is when they do that, and then come back to their computer to tell me how it's all my fault, my "attitude" is the reason they go to sleep with the "hottest guy" they know simply because he's "HOT".

If women just told the truth men here wouldn't even bother discussing this. The reason we discuss it is because we all know how things are, but there's a little bit of doubt when women deny it so fervently. Then again we would be in the same situation if someone passionately and fervently denied the grass was green or the sky was blue.

Problem is, women know if they tell men how things really are, it would create a massive backlash and we would probably revert back to the tried and true patriarchal ways . The only reason women in American society are as horrible as they are today, is because there are countless male dopes who give them the benefit of the doubt and believe what they say (without looking at what they do). They are willing to tolerate any amount of **** as long as it cures their loneliness for the moment.

Edited January 5, 2010 by cognac

January 5, 2010

The only reason women in American society are as horrible as they are today, is because there are countless male dopes who give them the benefit of the doubt and believe what they say (without looking at what they do). They are willing to tolerate any amount of **** as long as it cures their loneliness for the moment.

Agree 100%, and ladies in the thread, see how easily we admit that our gender contributes to the problem, that we as men have many flaws and make many mistakes? Yet somehow, that train doesn't run in both directions often.

To be fair, there have been some women in the thread admitting faults, and it is truly refreshing to see that, as it inspires us that you aren't all privileged and spoiled and can admit mistakes rather than always rationalizing them.

Cognac, saying once more, you have to dig to find gold. That 20% isn't going to just hop in your lap out of the sky. Good news is you only need one.

January 5, 2010

Cognac, saying once more, you have to dig to find gold. That 20% isn't going to just hop in your lap out of the sky. Good news is you only need one.

I don't know how old are you meerkat, but I would definitely disagree that 20% of women in my age bracket are worthwhile. The percentage is much lower.

I agree that you only need one, but then again this can be a problem too when there is only one. I found that one, but it is ruining me. I found that one diamond in the rough, but now I am in desperation trying to find out about this very special woman who randomly without warning or bad blood just dropped off the face of the earth and I haven't known anything about for almost a month. I find many guys find that one special girl too, but without rational explanation the woman who they thought loved them no longer does.

Sometimes I wish I never found the one, having loved and lost without reason is far worse than nothing at all.

January 5, 2010

Not to mention Meerkat that digging through 90% dirt to get to the gold can be really taxing when you encounter dead corpses, rattlesnakes, maybe even the entrance to hell itself during your dig. Right now with all the pressures (most of them have nothing to do with women) I have , I just don't have the patience or will to do that.

January 5, 2010

Here's my frustration. I have no idea what the world is like for men in their 20s these days. It's been quite awhile since I was there. So I can only talk about my experience, and my life. And every time I've done that on this forum, as a way of suggesting that all women aren't the same, I've been accused of lying or being delusional or basically full of sh*t. Why is that? What's the point of trashing women you don't even know?

I've never dated a jerk or a bad boy; not once. Only once have I been in a relationship with someone who earned more money than me. I've never had sex with someone I just met. I don't go to bars. I am a decent, nice girl. I've been involved with two men in NYC, one I met on a co-ed softball league, and another on a political campaign.

I'm kind of shy, so you probably won't even notice me, most of the time. I'd love to be in a relationship, but I'm not shopping for a man. I notice men who are friendly and who strike up a conversation and make me laugh. Pretty boys don't turn my head.

I genuinely like men, even when they piss me off. I'm sure I've done the same. We all make mistakes. But I have never been the kind of evil woman I keep reading about here. And I find it really hard to believe I'm the only one.

January 5, 2010

Not to mention Meerkat that digging through 90% dirt to get to the gold can be really taxing when you encounter dead corpses, rattlesnakes, maybe even the entrance to hell itself during your dig. Right now with all the pressures (most of them have nothing to do with women) I have , I just don't have the patience or will to do that.

C'mon man, were you or were you not the guy who said you had only met 5 women in the last year? Sorry if I have you confused with someone else, but if not, you haven't even bought a shovel yet, let alone started digging. To extend the analogy, the more you dig, the more your digging muscles develop, and surprise, your digging skills improve so that you have to dig less. Eventually, it won't even be digging at all, just natural as breathing. Also, the more corpses and rattlesnakes you dig up, the more you could care less about them. Leave them in corpse and rattlesnake land, don't let them embitter you or control you. Realize that every turd nugget gets you closer to that gold nugget.

January 5, 2010

Here's my frustration. I have no idea what the world is like for men in their 20s these days. It's been quite awhile since I was there. So I can only talk about my experience, and my life. And every time I've done that on this forum, as a way of suggesting that all women aren't the same, I've been accused of lying or being delusional or basically full of sh*t. Why is that? What's the point of trashing women you don't even know?

I've never dated a jerk or a bad boy; not once. Only once have I been in a relationship with someone who earned more money than me. I've never had sex with someone I just met. I don't go to bars. I am a decent, nice girl. I've been involved with two men in NYC, one I met on a co-ed softball league, and another on a political campaign.

I'm kind of shy, so you probably won't even notice me, most of the time. I'd love to be in a relationship, but I'm not shopping for a man. I notice men who are friendly and who strike up a conversation and make me laugh. Pretty boys don't turn my head.

I genuinely like men, even when they piss me off. I'm sure I've done the same. We all make mistakes. But I have never been the kind of evil woman I keep reading about here. And I find it really hard to believe I'm the only one.

There are always unfortunately going to be the immature ones who claim all women are the same, which is of course NOT the case. Every woman (and man) is unique. Those that accuse you of lying have no idea what they are talking about.

These men who say such ridiculous things about women are going to miss out on women like you.

January 5, 2010

But I have never been the kind of evil woman I keep reading about here. And I find it really hard to believe I'm the only one.

Of course you aren't the only one. Line up 100 women, and there will be 19 more good ones like you out of that 100.

Either that or you're just lying, delusional or full of sh*t

January 6, 2010

Well then if it was not just that one relationship then obviously you were the person in charge of inviting those kinds of women into your life.
Your repeated lack of sound judgment is something you should be directly attacking not women in general.
There are millions of men who have not had a track record of attracting nothing but "heart-ache" women so clearly there are good women out there you just have to know how to find them and attract them. Everyone can have a bad experience when it comes to relationships but when it becomes a pattern you can't NOT be held responsible for your choices.

I doubt this misogynistic attitude happened over time for you, you've always been like this, let's be honest now. You were at 21 like these bitter kids on this board today, and to all you 21 yr old men out there complaining and whining today have a long hard look at Woggle because that is what you have to look forward to in 10 yrs time if you don't change your stinking attitudes now.

I used to actually be the man who preached to my friends about respecting women. I always treated women well and got nothing but grief for it. Believe it or not I used to be a feminist man but after my divorce everything clicked. After my ex cheated on me it was a like a blindfold was removed from my eyes. I all of a sudden started noticing things. The ironic thing is that I am one of the few men in the world to actually have a mutually loving marriage right now and that is in large because my new mentality.

January 6, 2010

Here's my frustration. I have no idea what the world is like for men in their 20s these days. It's been quite awhile since I was there. So I can only talk about my experience, and my life. And every time I've done that on this forum, as a way of suggesting that all women aren't the same, I've been accused of lying or being delusional or basically full of sh*t. Why is that? What's the point of trashing women you don't even know?

I've never dated a jerk or a bad boy; not once. Only once have I been in a relationship with someone who earned more money than me. I've never had sex with someone I just met. I don't go to bars. I am a decent, nice girl. I've been involved with two men in NYC, one I met on a co-ed softball league, and another on a political campaign.

I'm kind of shy, so you probably won't even notice me, most of the time. I'd love to be in a relationship, but I'm not shopping for a man. I notice men who are friendly and who strike up a conversation and make me laugh. Pretty boys don't turn my head.

I genuinely like men, even when they piss me off. I'm sure I've done the same. We all make mistakes. But I have never been the kind of evil woman I keep reading about here. And I find it really hard to believe I'm the only one.

Nobody here is saying that all women are like this so if none of this applies to you do not be offended. I am not talking about women like you but there are plenty of women like Ruby Slippers who feel that men deserve to be mistreated because it is now payback time. This type of mentality exists to some degree in most women but if you are one of the exceptions more power to you. Why do some women get so defensive when men speak our mind?

January 6, 2010

Why do some women get so defensive when men speak our mind?

Fair question, and I really don't know. My personal objection is when people (both genders) say things like "all men" or "all women" or even "most" men and women without acknowledging that it is only "all" or "most" in that person's experience. And that includes family, friends, hearsay and stuff you choose to read and believe. We can pretty much convince ourselves of anything we want to believe; it's part of the human experience.

I had surgery a couple of months ago, and if everything I read online beforehand had been true, I would still be lying in bed with my feet up, instead of out running. But since I started telling people how easy it was for me, it's amazing how many other people have shared the very same story.

January 6, 2010

Why do some women get so defensive when men speak our mind?

You know, 'cause if they give us an inch we'll take the whole d*mn mile

Something I'm really homing in on now IRL is paying more attention to those quiet ones, the ones going about their lives without drama and are interacting with me in a non-dramatic way, like PinkToes described herself. I'm looking for those positive actions and seeing the rest as cosmic noise. The cosmos is really big.

January 6, 2010

Fair question, and I really don't know. My personal objection is when people (both genders) say things like "all men" or "all women" or even "most" men and women without acknowledging that it is only "all" or "most" in that person's experience. And that includes family, friends, hearsay and stuff you choose to read and believe. We can pretty much convince ourselves of anything we want to believe; it's part of the human experience.

I had surgery a couple of months ago, and if everything I read online beforehand had been true, I would still be lying in bed with my feet up, instead of out running. But since I started telling people how easy it was for me, it's amazing how many other people have shared the very same story.

I can't speak for the other men but I know that I have no issue with women such as yourself. I can understand how it would bother you if it feels I am talking about you but I am not. I even posted a thread a few days ago which barely got any responses praising the women out there who do know how to treat a man and don't buy in to the misandrist mentality that men deserve to be mistreated. Sadly women like this are very few and far in between but I do appreciate them.

This board is largely a place to vent and the issue that men speak on in this thread are things that many men experience. It gets frustrating when men are raised form birth on how to treat women and then when they get out in the world they find out that it completely backfires on them with a good number of women. I think that many women look at men with these qualities as suckers to be used and exploited.

I think that many women would just like men to shut up and not have any emotions at all. We are supposed to take whatever crap women dish out with a smile. I am sorry but I will not do that.

January 6, 2010

I think that many women would just like men to shut up and not have any emotions at all. We are supposed to take whatever crap women dish out with a smile. I am sorry but I will not do that.

Yes, it's important, and women have told us this, that a man be emotionally available in a relationship. That's not an a'la carte menu you get to choose from. We put the whole buffet out there. You can choose which item is of value to you, or avoid the whole buffet and find another restaurant. No worries. I'm happy with that

January 6, 2010

I even posted a thread a few days ago which barely got any responses praising the women out there who do know how to treat a man and don't buy in to the misandrist mentality that men deserve to be mistreated. Sadly women like this are very few and far in between but I do appreciate them.

This board is largely a place to vent and the issue that men speak on in this thread are things that many men experience. It gets frustrating when men are raised form birth on how to treat women and then when they get out in the world they find out that it completely backfires on them with a good number of women. I think that many women look at men with these qualities as suckers to be used and exploited.

I noticed your other thread; that was a nice thing to do.

I think the transition from the days when women were mostly homemakers and men were mostly breadwinners has been a challenge for a lot of people, especially men.

Women started earning a living and didn't have to rely on men as much, so men had to figure out how to fill that role in different ways. It used to be enough to go off to work everyday and come home and mow the lawn and drink beer. Not so much anymore. So finding a new balance probably isn't easy.

On the flip side, I think some women have to figure out how to interact with men in a way that is strong and self-sufficient without being belligerent. At least that's how I see it.

January 6, 2010

If women actually walked the walk on equality instead of trying to tip everything in their favor under the guise of feminist I think most men would embrace it with no problem. In reality though most feminists have the Ruby mentality where they think that men deserve to be mistreated in order to avenge what their mothers went through and men know it. They are not fooling me when they talk about equality and get very defensive when called out on it.

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