Does it change when women get to their 30's?

January 5, 2010

My point is not that different women shouldn't like different things, but that women should admit their faults in a relationship as opposed to 100% blame shifting "he's just too nice" after four months. If he is too nice now, it's likely he was too nice when you met. What changed? Your fickle level of attraction most likely. If he's always been too nice, then why did you date him for four freaking months? Did you ask him to change (almost certainly not).

It's just too convenient how many of these "too nice guys" was allowed to hang around as long as they did, isn't it?

Heck, I'd even settle for an "I thought I liked that kind of thing at first, but it got old," as the explanation for one of these "too nice" tales. NEVER SEE THAT THOUGH because it adds just a wee bit of blame on the woman in question for being mildly capricious, but apparently that tiny little bit of blame is too much to accept.

that's true we should take more responsibility in cases like that, that has been a personal goal of mine I feel I have come a long way in. (the not festering and communicating instead while choosing my battles)

It does go both ways men linger in undesirable rels too and never come clean, they just use and continue using until something better comes along. I have been on a few dates with guys telling me "yeah I wasn't really in love with her and I knew I was not going to last with her but I kept it going anyway. (!?)" I think everyone at one point or another is guilty of being in a relationship that is not ideal but that you tend to test the waters to see if it will get better in time. Other times you simply just lose interest as you get to know someone better, there are no guarantees even if you go in with the best intentions. But to knowingly stay because it's better than being alone, THAT i will never understand.

Especially when you are younger and staring to date you do things that you would hopefully not do when you get older like date people that don't seem right. Once you've had few experiences under you belt you change. It's all relative really. I am not talking about deep moralistic tendencies that involve deceiving others or being spiteful out of immaturity I think some people are just like that by nature, mean spirited, I mean just how cowardly we act in certain situations that we tend to tackle head on when we get older.

I seems to cut a lot more leeway for younger folk just starting out, maybe that's wrong of me but I do think that certain things are more permissible due to lack of experience, not to use that as an excuse just sometimes you really do need to find yourself through others.

Relationships all do teach us things about ourselves we would not have learned otherwise on our own.

January 5, 2010

if we go out again and he asks YET AGAIN, there won't be a fourth date.

And here it is in a nutshell because 90% of these "too nice" tales I have seen here and elsewhere are at a point where the couple has been dating months or years, not at all four dates. How on earth did it get that far? Also, in 90% of the "too nice" tales I've been privy to over the years, when the woman is asked pointedly if there's someone else in the picture, the honest woman will almost always admit there is.

MAN "I've met a hot woman I want to date more than my current GF. I'm going to dump my existing GF and go for it. I know this makes me an *******, so be it."

WOMAN "The guy I've been dating for six months is just "too nice." I am starting to lose attraction for him and am thinking of ending it, though I hate to do that and would do anything to change things. I have worked... so hard... on this relationship.

Follow-up to woman " Have you told your BF that you don't like this behavior?" Woman, "He should know it without me having to tell him."

Follow-up to woman "Is there perchance another guy in the picture?"

Woman, "Well, the boss I've always had a crush on is now separated and has asked me out a couple times."

Yes, call the above ridiculous. I've seen so many variations of this basic theme play out over the last thirty years, though, that I know it when I see it. Have seen it at least 100 times literally, no joke.

So back to my original point, it's usually guys who really don't know what they are doing who go for extremes.

I'm naturally Cary Grantish in personality and flirtatiousness with women. Do you know how many sexual harrassment suits I would have been subject to over the years acting as my natural self? I don't even allow myself alone behind a closed door with a woman at work based on some of the atrocious things I've seen happen to men -who did NOTHING- over the years.

Sometimes I don't think that women understand that all she has to do to put a man in jail is pick up a phone and dial 911. Yes, of course it's ridiculous to ask permission every time you want to kiss your GF. That's usually a straw man, though, and based on women's skills at rationalizing, it's real easy to turn basic politeness into "always asking permission." I know which is more likely

BALANCE boys, balance. Learn it, become best friends with it, treat it with respect and make it your daily mantra and you won't fail.

MIND READING, boys, mind reading. Learn it, become best friends with it, treat it with respect and make it your daily mantra and you won't fail... until I get tired of you, then, despite the fact that I'll never tell you what exactly annoys me about your behavior, I will tell everyone else in creation that you are "just too nice" as I waltz blamelessly out the door and underneath my boss's desk down the hall.

Fixed.

January 5, 2010

Oh, wah, wah, wah.

Welcome to what it's been like to be a woman for... hmmm, let's see... EVER.
I'm not condoning the behavior, but you've gotta expect some backlash on this stuff.

No need to be a titty baby about it.

Sounds great ruby slippers. Let's treat people like the system taught women to live, as consumers. In the 1950's people would keep a car 20-30 years, today they get a new one as soon as they get bored of how their current car looks. A similar case can be made with how women see men. Then when the flashy new sportscar breaks down after only a few miles and is too expensive to replace, they reminisce about the old reliable car that took them wherever without any problems, after all is said and done, such individuals will say "god , cars suck!111 omg" .

Edited January 5, 2010 by cognac

January 5, 2010

Listen Cary Grant,(wasn't he gay? uh-ohhh!) you are mixing things a bit, you are talking about how you should behave at work vs with a woman you are seeing. You sincerely adhere to the same guidelines? I understand the man's role in the workplace is an extremely delicate thing, and also when a man first meets a woman with date rape and all...but can you not make a distinction between that and being in relationship with someone whom you've already established a basic understanding, and interest and mutual on-going attraction!?!?

I mean the whole roleplaying thing can be a lot of fun and stuff but it would get extremely frustrating if it never even ended in a "faux sexual harassment charge for being taken advantage of", with your mate! And I am talking role playing, not forcing yourself on your partner while you are in a heated argument and she tells you to get off of her!

MIND READING, boys, mind reading. Learn it, become best friends with it, treat it with respect and make it your daily mantra and you won't fail... until I get tired of you, then, despite the fact that I'll never tell you what exactly annoys me about your behavior, I will tell everyone else in creation that you are "just too nice" as I waltz blamelessly out the door and underneath my boss's desk down the hall.

Fixed.

I resent that, I have never knelt under any boss' desk thank you very much!!! Don't make me pull out my finger guns again!

Just like I have never made a big deal about colleagues that I have rapport with who make somewhat off-coloured remarks, there is a difference between being chummy with people at work and crossing personal lines of creepiness you usually know if you've gone too far, if it feels like you might be taking it too far, just DON'T DO IT. It's not mind reading, it's common sense.

What are we talking to MAD MEN all of sudden?

January 5, 2010

It may not be the boss but many women expect men to be mind readers and when we are not they become very resentful and in many cases end up cheating. That is why going in for a sudden kiss can sometimes have bad consequences.

January 5, 2010

It does go both ways men linger in undesirable rels too and never come clean, they just use and continue using until something better comes along.

Oh absolutely, start a thread on things we do and I will gladly join in and rail on men, I like railin on all the peoples of the world!

Men can be just as bad about keeping "placeholders" but unless the guy is in the top 5% of desirability, it's a bit different, as he doesn't know where his next romantic opportunity is coming from to the level of control that the average woman possesses.

I have been on a few dates with guys telling me "yeah I wasn't really in love with her and I knew I was not going to last with her but I kept it going anyway. (!?)"

Yes, reprehensible, but again see above.

I think everyone at one point or another is guilty of being in a relationship that is not ideal but that you tend to test the waters to see if it will get better in time. Other times you simply just lose interest as you get to know someone better, there are no guarantees even if you go in with the best intentions.

Sure, we all make mistakes, and some guys hide theirs and blame-shift too. I've been guilty of it in the past. I knew it was wrong at the time though. What gets me is that so many women believe their own BS. After enough brunches and cell time with the support network, most guys on the way out are literally turned into the "polar extreme" behavior types you referenced previously without ever knowing they did anything wrong, all in the name of some insane feminine quest to avoid accountability and to feel righteous in their relationship decisions.

And it's not always as innocuous as "too nice," I've seen more than one normal guy turned into an abuser or pervert by the blame-shifting mill. I know men whose reputations in the community were completely sullied... FOREVER by this phenomenon, so it's not all whining and moaning on my end, there are real consequences involved with blame-shifting when it spills over into "blame-creating."

January 5, 2010

Accountability is not a word in most women's vocabulary. They make a wreck of their love lives then turn around and blame men.

January 5, 2010

Men will never learn

Women like to be dominated! I dont mean in a physically assualted way i mean in a Men takes charge of the relationship in general and in the bedroom grabs us by the hair and tears us to shreads wiht no regards way

We also want an authority figure we cna look up to and listen to like our father did to us as little kids so we fele the security like we felt when were little

January 5, 2010

Men will never learn

Women like to be dominated! I dont mean in a physically assualted way i mean in a Men takes charge of the relationship in general and in the bedroom grabs us by the hair and tears us to shreads wiht no regards way

We also want an authority figure we cna look up to and listen to like our father did to us as little kids so we fele the security like we felt when were little

So much for equality. If the women's libbers actually walked the walk on equality I could get fully behind it but you have too many women who want it both ways. How we got to a point where women want to dominate them like daddy I do not know. You need to grow up and stop looking for a father figure in the men you date.

January 5, 2010

What gets me is that so many women believe their own BS. After enough brunches and cell time with the support network, most guys on the way out are literally turned into the "polar extreme" behavior types you referenced previously without ever knowing they did anything wrong, all in the name of some insane feminine quest to avoid accountability and to feel righteous in their relationship decisions.

Are we really that bad? I mean really?

Ok I need to stop now and get some sleep because I feel like a SIMS I am running out of juice and soon going to start spewing gibberish, ("soon?" you probably all say..."lady you've been spewing for hours...") I am starting to think strange thoughts, and I am actually going to start agreeing with things and it's just dangerous all around.

Nite everyone!

January 5, 2010

Yes many of you really are that bad.

January 5, 2010

So much for equality. If the women's libbers actually walked the walk on equality I could get fully behind it but you have too many women who want it both ways. How we got to a point where women want to dominate them like daddy I do not know. You need to grow up and stop looking for a father figure in the men you date.

Its hardwired into us not something we always look for consciously but its why we react to these bad boys you talk about

January 5, 2010

Its hardwired into us not something we always look for consciously but its why we react to these bad boys you talk about

Maybe so but if you want men to be the brutes you women have denouncing for the past few decades it's only fair that women go back to being submissive houswives. It's only right that women live up to their end of the bargain right?

January 5, 2010

Listen Cary Grant,(wasn't he gay? uh-ohhh!)

"Acting gay can get you play!"

MS 2010

But no, you're thinking Rock Hudson. Grant may have been multi-sexual. He was married 5-6 times, so if he was gay he kept making the same mistake over and over again

you are mixing things a bit, you are talking about how you should behave at work vs with a woman you are seeing. You sincerely adhere to the same guidelines?

Will clear this up with an example. A colleague of mine was fired in 1994 for asking a woman he worked with out on two dates, both of which she rejected. The second time she complained to HR and because there was an ongoing "sexual harrassment" crusade in the bank, he was summarily fired.

I have 50 other examples. How many would you like to be bored with? Of course what happens in people's work life bleeds over into their social lives. I've never asked a woman's permission for any kiss, even the first, nor for sex, but there are certain things I -would have- done otherwise that the women in question would have enjoyed immensely if I hadn't been concerned with consequences on the odd chance that she got pissed at me for some reason.

I understand the man's role in the workplace is an extremely delicate thing, and also when a man first meets a woman with date rape and all...but can you not make a distinction between that and being in relationship with someone whom you've already established a basic understanding, and interest and mutual on-going attraction!?!?

Sure can make that distinction, but can also make the distinction that women change their minds about men, and that can turn a fun act in the moment into abuse down the road a piece, or even the very next week. See my point here? For example, half or more of the "sexual predators" in the U.S. are the product of cagey divorce lawyers, not any true illicit behavior on said "predator's" part. The point is that there are legal consequences men are aware of, and after a few horror stories, just up and decide they don't want to have any chance whatsoever of becoming a statistic.

I remember back in the day one of my GFs wanted to smoke some pot. I didn't have any, and was in an on-again off-again relationship with weed. Called one of my friends to ask if he had any, and his response was that it was a complete mistake to give her pot. I had no idea why. His reasoning was that despite the fact that she was the one who wanted it, when we broke up eventually, she would go around town calling me a pothead. He had much more experience with women at the time and ended up being correct. I ignored his advice, smoked weed with her, and then became a "pothead" once we broke up among her support network (all of whom knew me in my small town). The scariest thing wasn't that she was lying, but that she really believed her own BS, believed that there was nothing wrong with calling me a pothead for getting her pot she had asked for. Clearer now?

I resent that, I have never knelt under any boss' desk thank you very much!!! Don't make me pull out my finger guns again!

You must be kidding and know good and well I wasn't insinuating that about you, Sophia, you are my favorite OK, the desk part was admittedly overboard. I forgot that he should have asked your permission to push you down under there.

January 5, 2010

I don't think women date losers, I think it's a myth perpetuated by men who can't get a date to make them feel better. After all one person’s loser can be another person’s treasure.

What you said makes sense to me. If these guys were LOSERS why do they get all the women? Who is really the LOSER here?

January 5, 2010

I agree with you. I am a lawyer myself and most of my other single male lawyer friends think that female lawyers are not suitable mates. It's a masculine profession and the women tend to be bossy and very selfish/self-centered. Any guy who generally considers female lawyers to be the best romantic partners probably hasn't met very many of them.

What profession (for females) do they consider a suitable mate?

January 5, 2010

I feel like I need to blame everyone in this thread last night, for my sleep deprivation hang-over! zzzzz...

"Acting gay can get you play!"
MS 2010

But no, you're thinking Rock Hudson. Grant may have been multi-sexual. He was married 5-6 times, so if he was gay he kept making the same mistake over and over again

You're right I was thinking of Rock the other hottie from that time!

We're back in business.

Will clear this up with an example. A colleague of mine was fired in 1994 for asking a woman he worked with out on two dates, both of which she rejected. The second time she complained to HR and because there was an ongoing "sexual harrassment" crusade in the bank, he was summarily fired.

I get it, not disputing you shouldn't tread carefully at work. You never know when you will encounter a nutjob or what might seem ok to you could be interpreted as "too" much by a co-worker, safer to err on the side of caution. Tricky times for sure but looking at the ridiculous amount of affairs the happen in the work place I have the hunch that people somehow manage to work around these rules anyway.

I have 50 other examples. How many would you like to be bored with? Of course what happens in people's work life bleeds over into their social lives.

does it really? to the extent we are discussing here it spills over into our personal lives? Call me crazy but I would never say to a male cowoker, wow you smell fantastic today and those lips of yours... I might say nice haircut, or nice shirt but that's about it because I know that on the flip side flirting can lead a man to think you are good to go, women have always had to watch their P's and Q's so what now men are crying because they have to make distinctions too? women have known the lines between what is appropriate or too much, is it too much to ask that men follow suit?

Asking a woman out at work can get tricky, you can encounter the same kind of extremist nutjob outside in the dating world who would get mad at you simply because you asked her for her number. and in the history of sexual harassment cases there have been inappropriate passes made by men towards women that are totally unwelcomed and uncalled for.

I get that things have changed in the work place but you guys are taking it a little far here...it spills over into the dating world for the initial stages, then once you enter into the relationship you are more free to express yourself and that freedom is regulated with respect.

Kissing your woman without warning is not out of line, forcing yourself onto her sexually when she has said no about having sex is crossing a very hard and clear line.

Sure can make that distinction, but can also make the distinction that women change their minds about men, and that can turn a fun act in the moment into abuse down the road a piece, or even the very next week. See my point here? For example, half or more of the "sexual predators" in the U.S. are the product of cagey divorce lawyers, not any true illicit behavior on said "predator's" part. The point is that there are legal consequences men are aware of, and after a few horror stories, just up and decide they don't want to have any chance whatsoever of becoming a statistic.

I don't know Stew that seems rather high and quite a bold statement to make about what women and their dicey lawyers who are passing off innocent behaviors as predatory ones.

I remember back in the day one of my GFs wanted to smoke some pot. I didn't have any, and was in an on-again off-again relationship with weed. Called one of my friends to ask if he had any, and his response was that it was a complete mistake to give her pot. I had no idea why. His reasoning was that despite the fact that she was the one who wanted it, when we broke up eventually, she would go around town calling me a pothead. He had much more experience with women at the time and ended up being correct. I ignored his advice, smoked weed with her, and then became a "pothead" once we broke up among her support network (all of whom knew me in my small town). The scariest thing wasn't that she was lying, but that she really believed her own BS, believed that there was nothing wrong with calling me a pothead for getting her pot she had asked for. Clearer now?

that's a good story, of why people shouldn't do drugs! (

)

Any time you have any sort of interaction with any one human being you the run the risk of walking away and having your persona defamed to the other half of the world, do you think it's exclusive to men? It seems you are implying only women have a tendency to make crap up about men.

I've never dated a man who said to me "yes we broke up because I was dick, I did some things I should have and my contributing part in the relationship break-down was significant enough that she wanted out" It's always HER fault for the nasty things she did or we fell out of love, no man has ever own up to me their past mistakes. Most peoople don't Stew.

You must be kidding and know good and well I wasn't insinuating that about you, Sophia, you are my favorite

Flatery will only get you so far... like to here:

OK, the desk part was admittedly overboard. I forgot that he should have asked your permission to push you down under there.

no he should ask for permission if he could go down under my desk. Edited January 5, 2010 by InspiredbyYou

January 5, 2010

At 30's...meh, haven't noticed much of a change, still meet superficial women at that age...even one's in their 40's....must be the location. lol

January 5, 2010

I really can't fathom how a 25 year old woman can think a man-infant with the same hobbies as Bart Simpson can possibly be "cool" or "badass". Actually, you might have thought I was hot when I was a 14 year old skateboarder with blue hair. 14 was also the year I grew out of that phase

This is the type of stuff I mean when I say women date retards. I don't act, dress and ride like a skateboarder, not because I'm not capable of it or too "square", but instead because i'm a 21 year old man who grew out of that baby ****.

Why don't you go for girls who don't like skateboarders or those type of guys? Why don't you ask girls about their past before you even consider asking them out? Why are you upset because some girls like skateboarder types of whatever types, there's more than 1 girl in this world. Go out and find a different type of girl. Where are you looking to meet them? You cannot stop people from being attracted to who they are attracted to. Just find someone who is attracted to you and values the same things in a relationship as you. Stop hanging out in places where "bad ass" skateboarders and the women who love them hang out. Go to places where quieter girls hang out like church. Churches have so many activities and programs for single people. Join some type of place like this where you can meet girls who aren't into these type of guys. Don't hang out where "party girls" hang and expect them to want to settle down.

January 5, 2010

Accountability is not a word in most women's vocabulary. They make a wreck of their love lives then turn around and blame men.

That's not true. Sure there's a few women (and men) out there who don't take responsibility for their actions. These are exceptions and I avoid interacting with them.

You have to like women for them to like you back.

January 5, 2010

What profession (for females) do they consider a suitable mate?

Female lawyers, like most women, date either same level, or up. So if she's at a big firm, she will date only more senior associates or partners, or lawyers from more prestegeous firms.

I don't really buy the story that male lawyers don't want to date female lawyers, it's just that the female lawyers are really picky.

General rule, is that women date up. When you are probably top 2% of income earners, not many men are "up".

January 5, 2010

What you said makes sense to me. If these guys were LOSERS why do they get all the women? Who is really the LOSER here?

Actually these men are smart and the women are losers because they get hurt everytime by the bad boy they swear they can change.

January 5, 2010

You have to like women for them to like you back.

I think this is the BEST sentence I have read on here in a long time!

Touche!

January 5, 2010

What profession (for females) do they consider a suitable mate?

I don't know but they are right about female lawyers who are the utter worst to date. They are usually like Miranda from SATC times 10.

January 5, 2010

I don't know but they are right about female lawyers who are the utter worst to date. They are usually like Miranda from SATC times 10.

I don't know about that.. It's just that like most women, they date up, and there are very few men that are "up" when you're one of the highest income earners in the nation..

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