Sinensis Posted January 3, 2010 Posted January 3, 2010 I'm afraid I've become one of those girls I hate. You know, the kind that seems to get suckered in over and over by the same non-committal/confused/whatever guy, despite innumerable sob sessions. Normally in those stories her friends are unanimous in their calls of DTMFA (dump the mother-f***** already), but mine have given a huge range of opinions, so I come to you. I'm a 23 year-old bisexual female in a relationship with a 40 year-old man. We've been involved in some form or fashion for about six months. At first it was a just-dating-having-fun-ish-type-thing, but even then it was on and off. He would start feeling guilty about the age difference, grow distant, decide it would be kindest to me to end all but a platonic connection, and do so. Until the next time we had sex. Then one day, quite a while after I'd become aware of my own true feelings, we had a Dramatic Admission of Love (he started it) and decided to stop seeing other people. All is just sparkles and unicorns and rainbow pie for about a month, when he suddenly states that he's decided we shouldn't sleep together anymore. He tells me more or less the same reasons he used before, only, given that whole "I love you just kidding" thing, I take it a good bit harder. A month later, I started dating a girl. The guy and I were still friends and still spent time together, and he became more and more affectionate, eventually building up to the following admission, patched together from his words: A) He still loved me and had never stopped doing so, but had become confused because B) His admittedly very real issues surrounding childhood abuse make him afraid of people needing him which C) Makes him become distant and honestly believe that he does not love them/want to be with them, AND that they don't truly care about him. He also said things like "The only person I would want to be with if the world was ending is you," and "Please don't make me date other people." I agonized about it, admitted I was still in love with him, and expressed my concerns that he would just flip-flop again. After reassuring me over and over that wasn't the case and that I would just have to trust that he loved me and wouldn't leave, I finally chose to break things off with the girl and go back to him. So it's been another month. Things were great, then he got distant again, and when I confronted him about it and asked him to just tell me straight up if we were breaking up or not, he said he didn't know. I reminded him of the things he said and the way he acted when he was trying to get me back, and he described those the same way he described his freak-out moments: something that seems very real at the time, but is, at least in part, an illusion. I suggested that he might want to see a therapist to deal with his abuse issues, particularly since he's told me this is an emotional cycle he's struggled with before. He got offended at that suggestion and accused me of trying to say he was "broken" or "abnormal." (In the meantime, I'm looking for a therapist for myself just to help me deal with this, and some serious and unrelated issues that have cropped up in the family and friends categories of my life.) We haven't been discussing it lately due to the holiday craziness and lots of other things on our plates. I'm tired of not knowing where we stand, feeling like I'm somehow the unreasonable one, and being a yo-yo. Should I just DTMFA? Does it seem like we could work if I could get him to seek help? Is it even worth trying?
melindasian Posted January 3, 2010 Posted January 3, 2010 Dear Sinensis He seems to me that he is almost warning you of his faults. I am feeling that at his age 40 he has probably been accused of his lackings/faults before. If he is almost pinpointing his own "abuse" as a child, perhaps this is why he is giving you the "distant" treatment. That is classical "abuse". I cannot help feel that for what feelings you may have for this man, you are ONLY 23! You WILL find an amazing love whether it be female or male. And you will deserve the kindest treatment of them all. Have a think, at 23 can you imagine being with a man who is more than half your age, who is severely floored? Plus, this flip flop WILL continue to happen. Take it from me, I am 45 now, and spent 5 years with a flip flop. I wished so desperately I had left immediately! Hope you can too?!
Brightmoon Posted January 3, 2010 Posted January 3, 2010 I am a "flip flop" Sinensis, and for similar reasons to the guy you are with. I means you can never be happy. You long for closeness and intimacy and when you have it, you want to push it away with all your might.... when it goes... you are lost and broken. And the cycle begins again. He will keep doing this... over and over till he has pushed you away for good.
Author Sinensis Posted January 3, 2010 Author Posted January 3, 2010 Thanks. This is more or less the advice I expected, but I needed to hear that definitively from someone else. Also, as in almost any breakup, I still have strong feelings for him and don't WANT to, so I need a push from outside. I've gotten a very confusing mix of advice from the people in my life, and that coupled with this man's behavior has gotten me to a point where it's difficult to see things clearly. He is very intelligent and very introspective, so it's hard to listen to him and realize that I have to sort out the illogical statements from what he says. One last question: does anyone think there's a tactful way to get him to go to counseling? Maybe it's too late for us, but it certainly seems like it would be good for him to at least try to end this cycle. And if he can't or won't get help for it, frankly, it doesn't seem fair for him to continue putting himself on the dating market as available. If he's essentially emotionally unavailable, it's not right to go on relationship-minded dates, which sends the implicit message "I am capable of a consistent relationship." I mean, it's not up to me. But that sounds like a recipe for carving a swath of unhappiness through people, people like me. And for him, really. Way less drama.
deux ex machina Posted January 4, 2010 Posted January 4, 2010 ... A) He still loved me and had never stopped doing so, but had become confused because B) His admittedly very real issues surrounding childhood abuse make him afraid of people needing him which Because he would have to then take responsibility and take others into consideration? C) Makes him become distant and honestly believe that he does not love them/want to be with them, AND that they don't truly care about him. ...and in all his introspection...all of his intelligence...he isn't helping himself. He also said things like "The only person I would want to be with if the world was ending is you," and "Please don't make me date other people."... His statements above are manipulative. ...I've gotten a very confusing mix of advice from the people in my life, and that coupled with this man's behavior has gotten me to a point where it's difficult to see things clearly. He is very intelligent and very introspective, so it's hard to listen to him and realize that I have to sort out the illogical statements from what he says. You shouldn't have to do this. So please don't. Trying to is not only an exercise in futility, but it's also all too easy to excuse his treading over your boundaries again and again, because he is just "such a special" case. Don't allow him to use your sense of responsibity and consideration for others against you. One last question: does anyone think there's a tactful way to get him to go to counseling? Maybe it's too late for us, but it certainly seems like it would be good for him to at least try to end this cycle. And if he can't or won't get help for it, frankly, it doesn't seem fair for him to continue putting himself on the dating market as available. If he's essentially emotionally unavailable, it's not right to go on relationship-minded dates, which sends the implicit message "I am capable of a consistent relationship." I mean, it's not up to me. But that sounds like a recipe for carving a swath of unhappiness through people, people like me. And for him, really. Way less drama. You won't be able to get him to do anything he does not want to do. I think you are right, though - I think his body count is going to get ever higher...
westrock Posted January 4, 2010 Posted January 4, 2010 I suggested that he might want to see a therapist to deal with his abuse issues, particularly since he's told me this is an emotional cycle he's struggled with before. He got offended at that suggestion and accused me of trying to say he was "broken" or "abnormal." (In the meantime, I'm looking for a therapist for myself just to help me deal with this, and some serious and unrelated issues that have cropped up in the family and friends categories of my life.) Do you know if he has ever received therapy for the abuse? Until he wants help, there is nothing you can do other than keep suggesting that he see a therapist. If he expresses interest in getting back together, establish a boundary that you would only do so if he goes to therapy first. He doesn't want to be labelled as "broken" or "abnormal" because for him to accept these labels would bring him face to face with his unresolved emotions from the abuse. However, it also shows he is at least aware that something is wrong. The answer to his accusation is something along the lines of "I never said you are broken or abnormal. You were abused. A therapist can help you." Perhaps if you tell him that you are going to see a therapist for yourself and that you are finding it helpful, he might feel more comfortable to go himself. At 23, consider if this is something you want to take on. You're facing an uphill battle here. I wish you all the best.
melindasian Posted January 4, 2010 Posted January 4, 2010 Hope you are going OK today? My ex-husband, after the last destruction of our relationship, WENT to counselling coz I said that if we were to re-kindle, we would need to address some issues. He went to behavioural counselling for ONLY 6 wks. He had an incredibly abusive childhood. Yep, he thought that was enough. He NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER changed. Oh yeah, perhaps for 3 months. I had a pleasant existence. After that, it was the same old person. I thought exactly how you thought... if only??? Hunne, its not your problem. You are 23. You WILL have something else in your life. There WILL be others who will not be so floored, let's face it we all have them, but not in this manner. We feel we can help them, but we can only help ourselves. I'm just learning that at my age! x
freestyle Posted January 4, 2010 Posted January 4, 2010 You are so wonderful.I love you. Go away, I don't think this is gonna work. But you are so wonderful.I love you. Go away, it'll never work. I could spend the rest of my life with you. I love you...... Go away, I could never be good for you.......... I love you... Go away....... I love you.... Go away....... I love you...... Go away...... I love you....... Go away........................... was this tiresome to read after awhile? Is this really what you want to set yourself up for? It's emotional ping-pong---and your heart is the ball. It's bound to end up bruised.............. Guard your heart...............
threebyfate Posted January 4, 2010 Posted January 4, 2010 Should I just DTMFA? YES, do this!! If you're looking for a way to suggest counselling, suggest as follows: Dear MF, Get some counselling, for your sake and anyone else who you choose to get involved with, in the future. There are enough messed up people in this world, so stop adding to them. And yes, I'm dumping your MFA. Love (just kidding), Someone being direct, which you badly need to hear.
Author Sinensis Posted January 5, 2010 Author Posted January 5, 2010 Well, I broke up with him. I think I'm driving 6 hours away for my days off tomorrow and Wednesday to be with my best friend and generally detox. Is this the part where I should move this to Coping, or do I get to have a pity party here? *puts on Eeyore blue party hat*
Author Sinensis Posted January 5, 2010 Author Posted January 5, 2010 The worst part now is the panic and second-guessing myself. I keep thinking "He didn't break up with you this time, you did it, maybe this time it was going to last! What have you done?" I recognize, on some level, that that's foolish, but I think I need to be talked down from that mental ledge.
Joe Normal Posted January 10, 2010 Posted January 10, 2010 Break up with him and refuse any contact. If someone can't make up their mind about you, then they are "just not that into you". Either something about you is unappealing to them, or they are just confused. In either case, that makes them a bad potential partner, even if they have lots of attractive qualities. From personal experience, whenever I have flip-flopped about seeing a woman, I was never that into her and it never worked out in the long-term. It's best if you just break up and move on. Remember, you are 23, the world is your oyster. There are literally countless guys out there, many of whom will be a much better match than this chap. Leave him to sort out his own issues, and move on with your life. Great relationships don't take any work to start with - the first 6-12 months should be a trouble-free honeymoon period, not a round of breaks and resumptions, with all kinds of issues floating around. Trust me on this - a relationship that is going to be good in future will be good from the beginning; a relationship that is troubled from the beginning will always be troubled.
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