How do I change?

[LisaUk]

To cut a long story short, it has been drawn to my attention that I am considered opininated, assertive, overbearing adn apparentlyI am not very respectful in how I spoke to my ex.

 

I wasn't aware of this and it was never my intention to do any of these things or cause harm or pain to anyone, yet it seems there is something about me that makes others dislike me.

 

How do I pick this apart and begin to rebuild myself so that I don't end up lonely and all alone? Anyone?

[alphamale]

How do I pick this apart and begin to rebuild myself so that I don't end up lonely and all alone? Anyone?

start visiting your local friendly therapist who specializes in these issues...that should give you some insight. you need an objective opinion

[TaraMaiden]

I wouldn't dare.

 

sincerely.

My partner has just completed his 3rd year of law studies, and is set to take his 2 outstanding exams, for his finals this coming May.

He has actually accumulated sufficient marks through his coursework, dissertation and the 2 exams he did manage, before he broke his wrist mid-exams, to gain his degree and graduate. But he wants to get a first, and graduate with Honours with distinction....

 

he has a temperament that would freeze people at twenty paces.

he can be hard, calculating, devious, and he plays what I call verbal snooker... that is, he can see where a discussion with others is going, four or five comments before they're spoken, and is highly skilled at drawing people into the kind of trap they lay for themselves....

I truly believe you should not quash these qualities, because they denote positive strengths and attributes required in the cut-throat world of Law, which is a skill built on shifting sands....

 

I think the last thing you should do, is 'pick yourself apart and re-build yourself.'

I think these are qualities to be cultivated and developed, and very definitely held on to.

 

BUT:

Rather than eliminate them, or diffuse them, perhaps you could actually do to learn to separate Profession from personal....and not utilise the same characteristics in relationships as you do professionally....

That's what I truly believe you'd be best doing.

if you want to.

[tojaz]

Easy Lisa, you stop giving so much weight to what a selfish WAH says and live your life for you! Dont change for others, change because its what you want for yourself.

[tojaz]

 

I think the last thing you should do, is 'pick yourself apart and re-build yourself.'

I think these are qualities to be cultivated and developed, and very definitely held on to.

 

 

Listening Lis????????

Thank you TARA!

[LisaUk]

start visiting your local friendly therapist who specializes in these issues...that should give you some insight. you need an objective opinion

 

At my intial assesments wih a counsellor (this the UK, there are waiting lists!) she told me she belives I have low self esteem issues and I am driven by trying to be perfect to please others rather than be myself, that in doing so I allow other people to traet me badly and have their own way all the time, at the expense of my needs and happiness. Yet I still seem to get peoples backs up. I have been told I am assertive, yet I have trouble expressing my needs to others? I've been told I am opiniated, yet I don't know I am doing it? How do I stop doing something I don't know I'm doing? Should I just stop expressing any kind of opinion at all?

 

I wouldn't dare.

 

sincerely.

My partner has just completed his 3rd year of law studies, and is set to take his 2 outstanding exams, for his finals this coming May.

He has actually accumulated sufficient marks through his coursework, dissertation and the 2 exams he did manage, before he broke his wrist mid-exams, to gain his degree and graduate. But he wants to get a first, and graduate with Honours with distinction....

 

he has a temperament that would freeze people at twenty paces.

he can be hard, calculating, devious, and he plays what I call verbal snooker... that is, he can see where a discussion with others is going, four or five comments before they're spoken, and is highly skilled at drawing people into the kind of trap they lay for themselves....

I truly believe you should not quash these qualities, because they denote positive strengths and attributes required in the cut-throat world of Law, which is a skill built on shifting sands....

 

I think the last thing you should do, is 'pick yourself apart and re-build yourself.'

I think these are qualities to be cultivated and developed, and very definitely held on to.

 

BUT:

Rather than eliminate them, or diffuse them, perhaps you could actually do to learn to separate Profession from personal....and not utilise the same characteristics in relationships as you do professionally....

That's what I truly believe you'd be best doing.

if you want to.

 

You're right Tara, I do need the abilit to argue and see the "oppositions" arguement before they say it and I don't use this skill in my personal relationships, never have done as I think that would be manipulative. But clearly I'm doing something to get peoples backs up, just have to figure out what exactly?

[alphamale]

Should I just stop expressing any kind of opinion at all?

no i don't think you should do that

[tojaz]

 

How do I pick this apart and begin to rebuild myself so that I don't end up lonely and all alone? Anyone?

In other words, how to I change myself to please others......

 

I have low self esteem issues and I am driven by trying to be perfect to please others rather than be myself, that in doing so I allow other people to traet me badly and have their own way all the time, at the expense of my needs and happiness.

 

.......Lis, are we not answering our own questions here???

[TaraMaiden]

You're right Tara, I do need the abilit to argue and see the "oppositions" arguement before they say it and I don't use this skill in my personal relationships, never have done as I think that would be manipulative.

I'm not being deliberately argumentative, but are you sure?

it's possible that you really don't suffer fools gladly, and that your opinions may be clouded by a superiority complex.

Lordy, I really am not saying this to be insulting...truly....But you know, it's possible that your counsellor got it wrong.

or perhaps she missed other vital clues, because I don't think you have low self-esteem. really, I don't. you do not come across on forum as someone trying to please others and let them treat you badly.

 

I mean, really, do you think she was right?

Did her advice resonate, or not?....

 

 

But clearly I'm doing something to get peoples backs up, just have to figure out what exactly?

You're forthright, unequivocal.... do you see things in balck and white?

Really, I'm just trying to stimulate discussion, here....

[LisaUk]

Tojaz, But it's not working is it? B/c I try to please others and they aren't pleased, so unless I want to live my life alone and have people keep leaving me I need to do something about whatever it is that makes people think I am a waste of space. I need to work out where I am going wrong, b/c I was not aware I am assertive, in fact I thought I had a problem with being able to be assertive. And my actions and behaviour caused me to drive away the love of my life.

[tojaz]

Tojaz, But it's not working is it? B/c I try to please others and they aren't pleased, so unless I want to live my life alone and have people keep leaving me I need to do something about whatever it is that makes people think I am a waste of space. I need to work out where I am going wrong, b/c I was not aware I am assertive, in fact I thought I had a problem with being able to be assertive. And my actions and behaviour caused me to drive away the love of my life.

 

So the "love of your life" left because you dared assert your own opinions! How dare you have a mind of your own! How dare you take a say in decisions that effect your own health and your own life.

[LisaUk]

I'm not being deliberately argumentative, but are you sure?

it's possible that you really don't suffer fools gladly, and that your opinions may be clouded by a superiority complex.

Lordy, I really am not saying this to be insulting...truly....But you know, it's possible that your counsellor got it wrong.

or perhaps she missed other vital clues, because I don't think you have low self-esteem. really, I don't. you do not come across on forum as someone trying to please others and let them treat you badly.

 

I mean, really, do you think she was right?

Did her advice resonate, or not?....

 

Hi Tara

 

I just looked that up. In my every interaction with any other person my thoughts and motives in whatever I say and do is based upon wanting to be accepted, good enough for that person, not wanting them to dislike me, be upset by me. I am driven totally by my bottom line, which is measuring up, being perfect in order to attain someone elses love. My counsellor gave me a self help book written by a clinical psychologist to read on low self esteem and I could have written the sections about childhood. It literally is my life.

 

I can see how I may come across that way maybe this quote I found will explain for me?

 

"This is juxtaposed to an inferiority complex where if their knowledge, accuracy, etc is challenged, will not stop in their attempts to prove such things until the other party accepts their opinion (or whatever it may be). Again this is another reason that those with inferiority complexes are often mistaken for having superiority complexes when they must express and maintain their superiority in the eyes of others. Many fail to recognize that this is a trait of low self-opinion who care deeply about the opinion of others, not of those who feel superior and have high-self esteem and do not care at all about the opinion of others."

 

 

You're forthright, unequivocal.... do you see things in balck and white?

Really, I'm just trying to stimulate discussion, here....

..........

[D-Lish]

Lisa,

 

The most important thing to do is separate the fact from fiction- especially since the words are coming from a bitter ex.

 

I had an ex beat the crap out of me with accusations and insults with regard to my personality and behaviour. I was in such a state that I believed every word he said- and this began a downward spiral of depression and low self esteem that took me a long time to recover from.

 

My friends, family and even my ex husband whom I spent almost a decade with told me otherwise- put I still put so much stock into what an angry, troubled ex was saying that I internalized his words. Please don't do what I did!

 

The things your ex said are indicative of someone who is very troubled. Don't let him project his own issues onto you.

[LisaUk]

Lisa,

 

The most important thing to do is separate the fact from fiction- especially since the words are coming from a bitter ex.

 

I had an ex beat the crap out of me with accusations and insults with regard to my personality and behaviour. I was in such a state that I believed every word he said- and this began a downward spiral of depression and low self esteem that took me a long time to recover from.

 

My friends, family and even my ex husband whom I spent almost a decade with told me otherwise- put I still put so much stock into what an angry, troubled ex was saying that I internalized his words. Please don't do what I did!

 

The things your ex said are indicative of someone who is very troubled. Don't let him project his own issues onto you.

 

Yes. I think this may all finally be starting to make sense for me. Tara, thank you b/c of that reading I just did I found some further links which in turn and with some comments my ex made are are helping to piece this all together for me I think. No one has said I force my opinions until they accept them, as in the quote, but I do have a need to be accepted. I'll post more when I've thought this all through, But thank you everyone for the input, it's helped.

[TaraMaiden]

All anybody ever wants in Life is to be Understood, Appreciated and Loved.

 

But if we 'come to the table', with issues and an agenda, we then have an insistence to our requirements that makes it sound to others as if we consider ourselves more important, whereas in actual fact, all we want them to do is to fill a void that was already there, and not necessarily their responsibility to fill. But we'd like them to do it anyway.

 

Whilst we have this void - this agenda - we can never address relationships in a healthy way, because what overwhelms and tarnishes the purity is the neediness.

 

I'm glad the discussion exposed other matters for you to ponder.

 

TM

[Gunny376]

Who, who, who! Hold up those ponies on that stagecoach!

 

That's a bad thing?

 

Yes you are!

 

And your also intellegent, loving, giving, sharing opionated (aka as intellegent) individual!

 

But you know what?

 

You can put your shoes up under my bed?

 

Anytime!

[LisaUk]

All anybody ever wants in Life is to be Understood, Appreciated and Loved.

 

But if we 'come to the table', with issues and an agenda, we then have an insistence to our requirements that makes it sound to others as if we consider ourselves more important, whereas in actual fact, all we want them to do is to fill a void that was already there, and not necessarily their responsibility to fill. But we'd like them to do it anyway.

 

Whilst we have this void - this agenda - we can never address relationships in a healthy way, because what overwhelms and tarnishes the purity is the neediness.

 

I'm glad the discussion exposed other matters for you to ponder.

 

TM

 

I'm not so sure it's a void so much as it is the only way I know how to be. My whole life I have been bullied and emotionally abused, the only way I know to function is to please others, clearly though it's coming across to some as being dominerring and self opinated. Others opinions of me though? They don't have all the information do they? They don't have the interaction between the people involved in what they are passing comment on, nor access to my head and thoughts.

 

I think perhaps I need to address the underlying issue of my desire to please others, once I don't care about that anymore, I won't care what anyone thinks of me and in the process I won't have the need to express my opinions so strongly anymore, then I won't come across as opioinated.

 

I don't think this is what went on with my ex though, that was much more complicated. Two peoples interactions and issues producing a result far far different from the simple explanation above. My ex knew me, he also expressed he knew how much I care about others and how they feel. Hmmm, some more thinking to do.

[nobmagnet]

your mum did a number on you lisa........that had a massive impact on the person you are. I had a bullying mum too. Not as bad as yours but it has made me into a crown pleaser. I was maluable in the company of others and the harder I tried the more it annoyed my ex. I wouldnt argue my point i just bent over and let him kick my backside whenever he felt like it. You are a caring woman. You are very bright. You have very very low selfesteem because in your head you havent pleased your mother yet...............guess what love you never will. Sorry but its true. The time has come to accept who you are (lovely) see your good points (there are many) and totally disregard what your ex said.

 

I asked 3 mates I have know for many many years to tell me what it was about me they liked. I was at an all time low. I cried my heart out at the responces.

 

It helped me realise other cherish me. Love me and I enrich thier lives. Try it.

 

xx