Kind of New Here and Just Want Something to be Different

[DrIndigo]

I found this site a couple of years ago and posted maybe once or twice. I have come back from time to time and read some of the threads but haven't posted. I haven't been sure what I want to get out of it - I change my mind pretty frequently it seems!

 

I'm an OW in a three-year, on again - off again affair. My MM has been married, separated, married, with me, without me....you get the idea. There was one D-Day during the first year of our A.

 

He's currently trying (again) to work up the courage to leave his W. I am not sure I think this time will be different, but I do think for the first time he may realize I won't wait forever for him. I am trying now to patient and understanding but also to protect myself from yet another disappointment. There have already been more false starts than I care to recount. I am taking steps to move to another city, but the actual move won't be possible until fall at the earliest. That I am finally making concrete plans to move away seems to have gotten his attention, and he has expressed a renewed determination not to lose me.

 

As far as I can tell, the "thing" that has always stopped him from leaving his M is the guilt he would feel over being "the kind of guy who leaves his wife for another woman." He is particularly concerned about how his family will view him if he does this. I don't know what to tell him. The only advice I can think to give is that you do it and then you work through the guilt with the support of your wonderful girlfriend and your therapist later. Does anyone have any experience with this?

[whichwayisup]

being "the kind of guy who leaves his wife for another woman."

 

Then end it completely walk away, go on with your life. IF/WHEN he divorces, THEN casually date him, get to know him in a 'new' setting. Right now you are in affair mode and that's not healthy.

 

If his marriage is to end, it should be because he doesn't love his wife enough to make his marriage work. Not because of you..

[jennie-jennie]

Well, I am in a similar situation as you are. I have been in an EMR for four years now. I live my own life while enjoying our EMR and getting the most I can out of it.

 

My MM has recently come to the conclusion that he is going to tell his wife about the EMR whether or not he will stay with her. For personal reasons (relevant to both him and me) this will not happen before the fall. I like the sound of this, but I will believe it when I see it.

 

I think that is the only way we can survive as other women. Live our own life, stay in the EMR as long as we feel the pros outweigh the cons, and enjoy the journey whatever destination it leads to.

[jennie-jennie]

Has your MM considered going to individual counseling now? Perhaps this would help him figure out how he wants to live his life in the future. If he wants to move on from his marriage, the counseling might help him pull through with it.

[Hazyhead]

I don't think there's anything you can say to him Dr Indigo. If he is going to leave his marriage, I agree with WWIS, it has to be because of the love he has for his wife not being enough rather than because he wants to be with you, as much as that may be the case. Maybe that's the reason he's yo-yo'd back and forth so often, because he isn't working, or not working the marriage out before he leaps into another relationship. He is keeping you both because he can and for this reason I think it's a great idea that you distance yourself from him. Don't let him have both. Walking away and showing him that you can get on without him will tell him far more than any words you can say.

[DrIndigo]

Thanks for all the responses.

 

My MM is in IC. His latest therapist actually told him that waiting for the marriage "to die on its own," so that he could be with me without being some guy who left his wife for another woman was a horrible idea. The therapist seemed to think it's really important that MM make an actual decision rather than waiting for someone else to make it.

 

As for me, I've decided that if things haven't changed by the time I can get my professional license and a job in the state where I would be living had I not stayed in my current city for MM, I will simply go. That isn't what I want, but it is genuinely my second choice. In the meantime, I want to do what I can to encourage him but without becoming too insistent, especially as the deadline gets close.

 

I am completely overwhelmed by sadness at the thought of a life without him, but I realize things simply cannot stay the way they are. It's now (well, the next 9 months) or never for him to act like someone who loves and respects me. Realistically, I know I will be so tempted to go back on this limitation as the time winds down. It's important to me, though, to stick with it. And maybe that's why I'm here.

[DrIndigo]

Btw, what does EMR stand for? Just when I thought I'd gotten the hang of all the abbreviations!

[jennie-jennie]

Btw, what does EMR stand for? Just when I thought I'd gotten the hang of all the abbreviations!

 

Extramarital relationship!

[jennie-jennie]

Thanks for all the responses.

My MM is in IC. His latest therapist actually told him that waiting for the marriage "to die on its own," so that he could be with me without being some guy who left his wife for another woman was a horrible idea. The therapist seemed to think it's really important that MM make an actual decision rather than waiting for someone else to make it.

 

Very interesting. I think his therapist is right. If my MM leaves his marriage, it will be because he wants a life with me, because with me he has found a new level of relationship. That does not mean that he does/did not have anything with his wife, just that he realizes a relationship can be so much more, and he wants that.

 

I too stayed in my prior relationship until I met MM. I loved my exSO, but our relationship did not fulfill my needs. So I could not bring myself to leave him because then I would have less when what I wanted was more.

[OWoman]

His latest therapist actually told him that waiting for the marriage "to die on its own," so that he could be with me without being some guy who left his wife for another woman was a horrible idea. The therapist seemed to think it's really important that MM make an actual decision rather than waiting for someone else to make it.

 

 

I can understand this. Agency is important. Being a victim to one's circumstances can lead one to depression and powerlessness.

[Brokenlady]

Dr.Indigo,

I'm so sorryyou have to deal with this. I went through a very similar situation. Rest assured he is never going to decide until he is good and ready, and there's nothing you can do to change that. Your pain isn't going to be a factor in his decision, as he's too worried about his own. So, the real question is, how much more of your life do you want to invest in this knowing he will never really be yours emotionally?

 

Do a site search on my username, Mino, and wildsoul. All pretty similar stories, and they all end the same way.

[GreenEyedLady]

As far as I can tell, the "thing" that has always stopped him from leaving his M is the guilt he would feel over being "the kind of guy who leaves his wife for another woman." He is particularly concerned about how his family will view him if he does this. I don't know what to tell him. The only advice I can think to give is that you do it and then you work through the guilt with the support of your wonderful girlfriend and your therapist later. Does anyone have any experience with this?

 

The family gets over it. Every one moves on after a while. Life continues and everyone just gets used to it.

 

My H didn't feel guilty but was afraid of the disappointment of his family. in the end it wasn't worth staying in a R that wasn't working for either of them.

 

The first year was hard although I've heard other R's have not fared as well as ours. There's alot of tough times, but we made it through. It was made more difficult because I have children too and blending families is actually harder than one might think.

 

We started seeing a counselor together to help get through it all. And we've only grown closer and love each EVEN MORE which I never thought possible.

 

In the end, everyone ended up better off, it's not like the XW became destitute and she didn't give us the problems that I've heard alot of BS's do. Although she also didn't know about me until we moved in together and we did marry as soon as the ink was dry.

 

His family loves him and they've accepted me as part of their family. No one ever thought his M was a great love affair or were shocked by the outcome at all. Sometimes M's don't work out and their's was one of them.

 

He's really changed a lot and done the work and gets it.

 

And my H didn't leave for another woman. He left his M, period. If your MM summons the courage, you both must forget about what other people say and think and focus on each other and your family(s). It will be turbulent, but it can be weathered. It takes time and it takes determination and courage. Courage to stop hurting others and take responsibility for their actions.

 

GEL

[fooled once]

lending families is actually harder than one might think.

 

I totally agree. I think so many think "Brady Bunch" and most of the time, blending families is so far from that....

 

The first years of step life are extremely hard, even under the best of circumstances.

 

Like GEL, my H and I started counseling not long after being married to figure out how to deal with many things. My son and his kids both cared very much for their new step parents, but that doesn't mean there weren't issues and problems. My ex, his ex; different rules, different visitation schedules, different personalities, different parenting styles..... totally different than deciding to become parents together.

 

Now, almost 12 years later -- we are a family. I am very close to my step daughter and my son is very close t his step father. It takes a lot of work, a lot of patience, a lot of flexibility, a TON of communication and a lot of forgiveness.

[pureinheart]

Wow...well I will tell you one thing, moving WILL wake him up. For the guys that are not just total jerks and not real selfish, the waxing and waning is common. Also depending on the legnth of the M, it is hard to leave that "security"...it takes a lot of guts to walk away from all of the established "stuff", the life they are used to.

 

Okay....my exMM/exBF gets on my last nerve because his whole life is a manipulation....I have only ONE good thing to say about him...lol....even though HE manipulated his W to leave, file for D and all of it....I think (if he wasn't lying about this stuff too) he did pritty good considering, even though he was forced to stick with the D and carry it through he has lived through it and I did not think he could handle it.

 

Guys just don't get M and D, generally it is not in their nature, most men do not do change well. My ex is a major hoarder (seen that tv show?) and has A LOT OF STUFF and managed to buy three houses in a row and they are all filled to the brim....his life is based on "stuff". So I would say it is a major change in the right direction for him.

 

Confusion is a major part of the "triangle"....they want one one day and the next want the other....it is horrible for you I bet.

 

My best advice is for you to keep your head on straight and until he "puts up" then you do what is best for you!

[pureinheart]

The family gets over it. Every one moves on after a while. Life continues and everyone just gets used to it.

 

My H didn't feel guilty but was afraid of the disappointment of his family. in the end it wasn't worth staying in a R that wasn't working for either of them.

 

The first year was hard although I've heard other R's have not fared as well as ours. There's alot of tough times, but we made it through. It was made more difficult because I have children too and blending families is actually harder than one might think.

 

We started seeing a counselor together to help get through it all. And we've only grown closer and love each EVEN MORE which I never thought possible.

 

In the end, everyone ended up better off, it's not like the XW became destitute and she didn't give us the problems that I've heard alot of BS's do. Although she also didn't know about me until we moved in together and we did marry as soon as the ink was dry.

 

His family loves him and they've accepted me as part of their family. No one ever thought his M was a great love affair or were shocked by the outcome at all. Sometimes M's don't work out and their's was one of them.

 

He's really changed a lot and done the work and gets it.

 

And my H didn't leave for another woman. He left his M, period. If your MM summons the courage, you both must forget about what other people say and think and focus on each other and your family(s). It will be turbulent, but it can be weathered. It takes time and it takes determination and courage. Courage to stop hurting others and take responsibility for their actions.

 

GEL

 

ExMM/exBF was sooooooo worried about what everyone would think....his GROWN kids, family all of it....but getting caught for cheating was ok I guess because he could explain it away....who knows.

 

Anyway, I have always been the eternal romantic, almost to a fault....me and my exH were not getting along and he left me for AW....I was happy for him because I knew God would find someone for me....he later asked me to testify for him in court (and I did) because she had accused him of physical abuse....I know he did not lay a hand on her, she was a drama queen.

 

Life is soooooo short, if one is in a bad R and finds love GO FOR IT and who cares what anyone thinks....that's my story and I AM sticking to it!!!!!!!!!! Everyone will get over it.

[OWoman]

Blending families can be hard, depending on the age of the kids. We've been lucky in that my kids are older - one grown, one at university - and so not "competing" in the same way as his (older teens). The kids met for the first time these holidays, and have really taken to each other. It's great - but we know how lucky we are.

 

On the "family approval" thing - as GEL says, families move on. I was made so welcome by my H's family, because they love him and want what's best for him. If I'm part of that, then that's what they want too. I've experienced no judgment or hostility or hesitancy from any of them. Friends, family and colleagues will take the lead from him - if he's proud of you, treats you with respect and shows his love for you, they'll do the same. If he's embarrassed to introduce you, ashamed of you or hesitant about being seen in public with you, they'll take their cue from that and come to see you as some kind of awkward attachment.

 

It's not about THEM, it's about HIM. He needs to stop hiding behind the fear of what others might think, and be honest about what HE thinks and wants, and what he's prepared to do about that.

[sadintexas]

As far as I can tell, the "thing" that has always stopped him from leaving his M is the guilt he would feel over being "the kind of guy who leaves his wife for another woman." He is particularly concerned about how his family will view him if he does this. I don't know what to tell him. The only advice I can think to give is that you do it and then you work through the guilt with the support of your wonderful girlfriend and your therapist later. Does anyone have any experience with this?

 

It's actually easy and the answer is already there, it's just not the one you want to hear. Don't be the other woman. Let him leave his marriage because it has failed. Walk away. Let him come to you when he's ready for a real relationship with you.

[DrIndigo]

Reading some of these responses as well as some other threads makes me wonder if our needs can ever be compatible. He would certainly feel better about a divorce if he weren't leaving his wife for someone else. But in that scenario, I would feel like his second choice, and that's not something I could live with. Because of all that has happened and all the times he has had to make a choice between me and his marriage, I need for him to choose me, once and for all, in order to ever feel good about being with him. I believe he understands this and is trying to find a way to give me what I need. Still....I worry it may come at the expense of a solution he can live with.

 

Are the needs of the OW and the MM in terms of going forward with their own relationship totally incompatible?

[DrIndigo]

It's actually easy and the answer is already there, it's just not the one you want to hear. Don't be the other woman. Let him leave his marriage because it has failed. Walk away. Let him come to you when he's ready for a real relationship with you.

 

Whether he should be or not, he's already in a relationship with me. And he's in a relationship with his wife. Therein lies the problem. MM began a relationship with someone new before ending the relationship he was already in. It's not an unusual thing to do for people who are dating, but it becomes an unbelievable mess when the people involved are married. Luckily, my situation is less complicated than those of many who post here - MM and his W have no children, and he's been with me for half their marriage. I am not married and have no children. But I am invested in the time and effort I've put into my relationship with him. It's not something you just walk away from because the circumstances aren't what you like. Granted, I am making plans to leave but only based on my belief that there will come a time (in the near future) when I won't be willing to invest anymore.

 

I certainly don't believe in walking away to see whether he'll chase me. If I say goodbye, it should be because I want it to be over and not because I want to manipulate his behavior.

[OWoman]

I certainly don't believe in walking away to see whether he'll chase me. If I say goodbye, it should be because I want it to be over and not because I want to manipulate his behavior.

 

Agree 100%!

 

Manipulating anyone in/to an R is disrespectful, deceitful and damaging to any hope the R has.

 

It's also misguided - most times, walking away from the A (in the hope that the MM will follow) achieves the opposite of its intention - the MM thinks the OW is not serious about him any longer, or that she's flighty (or worse, sees through the ploy and recognises her as manipulative) and moves on. An OW should not walk away from an A unless she's ready to do just that - leave it - because she no longer wants to be in it, or because she's realised that it's doing her more harm than good and wants to cut her losses.

 

Walking away from an A in the hope that the MM follows is like leaving your full purse on the street to see if someone will bring it home - still full - to you.

[OWoman]

Reading some of these responses as well as some other threads makes me wonder if our needs can ever be compatible. He would certainly feel better about a divorce if he weren't leaving his wife for someone else. But in that scenario, I would feel like his second choice, and that's not something I could live with. Because of all that has happened and all the times he has had to make a choice between me and his marriage, I need for him to choose me, once and for all, in order to ever feel good about being with him. I believe he understands this and is trying to find a way to give me what I need. Still....I worry it may come at the expense of a solution he can live with.

 

Are the needs of the OW and the MM in terms of going forward with their own relationship totally incompatible?

 

DrI

 

My H left his xW - whether for me, for him, for us... it's all semantics in the end. The issue is whether he feels it is the right thing to do - whether the future he sees in Scenario A (leaving his M) is better than the future he sees in Scenario B (staying in his M), all things considered.

 

No man likes to be thought of as the guy who traded in his "old" W for a newer model (however substantial that upgrade might be). But sometimes it takes another R (an A) to show up the limitations of a M that he might have considered "ok" before. Sometimes seeing other possibilities reveals that what he'd settled for is not inevitable or universal, but a choice. And sometimes, when looking at the possibilities, the foolishness of persisting with a less-than-optimal choice becomes apparent, and he realises that even were he to stick with that choice into the future, he could no longer be happy with it because he now knew that there were far better options out there.

 

It isn't to do with dumping one woman for another. It's to do with realising that the future he'd signed up for is no longer the future he looks forward to, and that the projection of himself into that future feels like a loss of self rather than the actualisation of self he'd like to see. It's to do with how he can best become the finest "him" he can picture.

 

For some men, that involves persisting with the loyalty thing - showing that you're willing to make the sacrifices and do your duty, keep those naive, youthful promises you made because you've made them, irrespective of the personal cost to yourself and your dreams.

 

For others, it involves stepping out of the straitjacket of fear, sloughing off the grey shroud of early middle age and facing up to the reality of the choice - between the safe but increasingly frustrating / depressing option of staying as you are for the rest of your life, or the risky but enlivening possibility of becoming what you truly can be.

 

I think the conflict with the needs / desires of the OW only occurs if it's all left to rest on the decision of the MM. Then, of course, the OW becomes chosen or not chosen, the winner or the loser, Option A or Option B. She becomes passive in the process, rather than an active agent making her own choices. If the OW decides what future SHE wants, under what conditions she wants it, and what she's prepared to do to achieve that, and communicates that to the MM as part of a joint negotiation, in which they both state their positions, their fears and hopes, their bottom lines and their deal-breakers, and decide from there if there's agreement or not, then no, she's not a "second (or even first) choice", she's an active participant, choosing as much as being chosen.

 

It's not about ultimata or threats or manipulation; it's about being honest about your own position, and what you're prepared to do, prepared to accept and prepared to negotiate / compromise on. It's about making your own choices and asserting your own power in the situation.