curiousnycgirl Posted December 31, 2009 Posted December 31, 2009 I've been toying with posting the emails below, in an attempt to get opinions and input, but kept not doing it because I wasn't ready. Today is 30 days NC and I'm feeling very weepy (maybe because it's NYE, I don't know) and hurt. So I am posting it. Would appreciate answers to the following questions: 1. Was I begging/pleading for his return? Was this a bad note to write? Did it do further damage? 2. How could anyone who claims to love someone not respond AT ALL to this note? The fact that he apparently never loved me, or had already checked out is what I'm having the hardest time with. I really want him to love me, to have an epiphany, to call me and tell me what a horrible mistake he made, etc. Clearly if he didn't love me or had checked out so long ago, those things can never happen. I know NC is when I'm supposed to heal - but right now I'm a mess. I also know that I keep referring to 12/1 as when we started NC (our last phone conversation) - but I guess 12/4 is really it, although for me it will always ben 12/1 the day I pulled the trigger. Ok here it goes: I Sent: Wed, December 2, 2009 6:54:07 AM I need to respond to your apology last night. You said you were sorry you couldn't be the person I wanted. You can, I would not have stayed if you couldn't, you've chosen to be angry. For that I am very Sad He Sent: Fri, December 4, 2009 09:34:22 -0800 I don't agree with the characterization that I have "chosen" to be angry. If it is anger, and I don't know if that is it, it is certainly not a conscious decision. I Sent: Fri, December 4, 2009 8:00:00 PM It certainly feels like anger. If I've misread it or miscategorized it, I apologize but then I ask what is it?! Did you feel better after yelling at me Saturday night? Because I sure as heck didn't. I guess the bottom line is that you are not happy with me, that is apparent to me, as well as others who see us together. What is also apparent is how upset it makes me - therefore I am not happy either. I've been thinking about this alot. While you may feel emasculated - I feel defeminized (I'm sure that's not a word). A woman needs to feel that she is treasured, care for and that her man finds her attractive. This has been an issue with us for a long time - and I have tried to address it over the years, with no success. Being in Israel only magnified the problem to me. I've been to Israel as well as other countries before with male friends who demonstrated more concern for my welfare than you did. It is the actions and body language, far more than the words that make the difference. You were always 10-20 steps ahead of me (typically talking to the guide), never looking back to make sure I was ok, still there, hold my hand or whatever. When we left Hezekiel's tunnels and I found the steps too high to manage in flip flops you appeared annoyed with me, while a total stranger came up from behind and offered his arm - which was all I needed. Truth is what I need is generaly something very small, a hug, a kiss, having my hand held, a smile. I don't want you to think the trip to Israel was the cause of anything bad - I had actually been hoping it would give us a chance to reconnect - but that was not the case, clearly it was an unreasonable expectation of mine. I will also say that I am still glad we went, I really enjoyed watching you discover a place that is very special to me. I have always tried to do what I felt was best for us as a couple, for the partnership - the intentions were never negative, and I know you know that. Furthermore I usually put your wants/needs and desires ahead of mine - if only because I wanted to make you happy. I know you won't understand this, but that brought me joy - making you happy. I never gave a **** who paid for what, as long as we were enjoying it together. I have always known you were not comfortable with my paying for things - but I had really hoped you would see it as my part of the partnership. At this point I'd like to understand what you would have expected me to do differently? Should I only have paid for things you sanctioned - like fuel for your boat and car to tow it? Tires when yours were bare? Or the food we eat when we are together (but not restaurants) which for the most part I should prepare? Where should I have drawn the line? You said Israel was my thing, and that I hadn't discussed it. That's simply not true - I asked you if you were interested, I discussed the airfare with you before I booked it and I expressed concern over the guide’s costs, but that was just me freaking out. I recognize that perhaps you cannot distinguish between my freaking out and reality - and that is a fair point - but to tell me that I acted without discussing it with you is unfair. At this point I know you would agree that the guide and the trip to Petra (the two costs I was needlessly freaking about) were both well worth the money. Before the trip I don't believe you would have known the kind of contribution the guide would make. The one thing I know at this point is that I cannot fix what's broken here on my own. Lord knows I have tried. Your other note to me made it clear you don't feel it can be fixed. This did not suprise our friend she feels you checked out a long time ago - I don't know if I believe that or not. If I believe it then boy am I an *******, if I don't then I'm just me, sitting here writing this, crying my eyes out and wishing for something very different than my current reality. I am also sitting here wondering what I could have done differently - because other than ending it years ago, I really don't know. There are two things I do know for sure one is that you are more than capable of being the person I had hoped. And the second is that regardless of what I have done to make you so angry with me it was never intentional, I always loved you very much.
threebyfate Posted December 31, 2009 Posted December 31, 2009 1. Was I begging/pleading for his return? Was this a bad note to write? Did it do further damage?No, you weren't begging and pleading for his return. You were being open and honest about how you felt. It takes guts to do this, being emotionally honest. 2. How could anyone who claims to love someone not respond AT ALL to this note? The fact that he apparently never loved me, or had already checked out is what I'm having the hardest time with. I really want him to love me, to have an epiphany, to call me and tell me what a horrible mistake he made, etc. Clearly if he didn't love me or had checked out so long ago, those things can never happen.I don't think he never loved you but I do agree with your friend that he checked out awhile ago. Even if he still loves you, which I think he does, your relationship was so much hard work due to differences in how you thought and approached life. In order to keep moving forward in the relationship, he would have to overhaul himself, which I don't think he was prepared to do. Sometimes, things aren't meant to be and love isn't enough. I wish I could give you a hug and a shoulder to cry on. Whether you realize it or not, I think this parting was best for both of you. ((hugs))
Author curiousnycgirl Posted December 31, 2009 Author Posted December 31, 2009 No, you weren't begging and pleading for his return. You were being open and honest about how you felt. It takes guts to do this, being emotionally honest. I don't think he never loved you but I do agree with your friend that he checked out awhile ago. Even if he still loves you, which I think he does, your relationship was so much hard work due to differences in how you thought and approached life. In order to keep moving forward in the relationship, he would have to overhaul himself, which I don't think he was prepared to do. Sometimes, things aren't meant to be and love isn't enough. I wish I could give you a hug and a shoulder to cry on. Whether you realize it or not, I think this parting was best for both of you. ((hugs)) thanks TBF intellectually I know you are probably right. unfortunately right now my emotional side has totally taken over. So tell me, how does he just not answer that note? How does he just let it slide? If I loved someone and they wrote that I'd have to do something (yet again the fixer in me).
Author curiousnycgirl Posted December 31, 2009 Author Posted December 31, 2009 oh one more question, if he checked out a while ago, why did he let me keep making plans? why did he participate in making those plans (of course while i paid for them)? And the $64K question - why didn't he just let me go when he checked out?
threebyfate Posted December 31, 2009 Posted December 31, 2009 thanks TBF intellectually I know you are probably right. unfortunately right now my emotional side has totally taken over. So tell me, how does he just not answer that note? How does he just let it slide? If I loved someone and they wrote that I'd have to do something (yet again the fixer in me).There's nothing he can say, that would make it okay, unless he agreed to try again. That's why he's not responding. If that sounds selfish, it is and something to keep in mind.
threebyfate Posted December 31, 2009 Posted December 31, 2009 oh one more question, if he checked out a while ago, why did he let me keep making plans? why did he participate in making those plans (of course while i paid for them)? And the $64K question - why didn't he just let me go when he checked out?I can't tell you when he checked out in connection with what the two of you did, where you paid. And my opinion is just an opinion v. hard knowledge. The only person who can answer your questions definitively, is him. But I will give my opinion on your questions. It's not easy to let go of someone who you've been with for years. I don't think he used you. I think he gave himself time to finally get up the strength to end it.
Author curiousnycgirl Posted December 31, 2009 Author Posted December 31, 2009 thanks TBF - was hoping someone could give me new insights, something that might make me feel better about this. Guess my feeling better about it is just not possible at the moment. It will take time - and patience has never been a core competency of mine. so sad
Author curiousnycgirl Posted December 31, 2009 Author Posted December 31, 2009 I don't think he used you. I think he gave himself time to finally get up the strength to end it. Just to be clear, he didn't actually end it - I did. He just pushed me to end it by the way he was treating me. I agree I don't think he consciously used me, but I do feel he behaved dishonestly and in a very ugly way.
carhill Posted December 31, 2009 Posted December 31, 2009 Perhaps not relevant but, in my own circumstance, I stopped feeling the marriage and started thinking it at a point long before MC and divorce. IMO, it was a defense mechanism to balance the dearth of emotion from my stbx but, regardless, it changed the dynamic. Processing an intimate relationship cognitively chills the dynamic. There is no depth. That could explain his actions, IDK. Sorry this happened to you. Adventures (and relationships) are supposed to be fun and fulfilling.
threebyfate Posted December 31, 2009 Posted December 31, 2009 Just to be clear, he didn't actually end it - I did. He just pushed me to end it by the way he was treating me. I agree I don't think he consciously used me, but I do feel he behaved dishonestly and in a very ugly way.This jives with his history of passive-aggressiveness. If he continued behaving badly, sooner or later you would have ended it, which is why I say he ended it.
Author curiousnycgirl Posted December 31, 2009 Author Posted December 31, 2009 This jives with his history of passive-aggressiveness. If he continued behaving badly, sooner or later you would have ended it, which is why I say he ended it. As usual you are right. Still hurts more than I can express. I also agree with your earlier post, I don't think he has what it takes or would ever be willing to as you put it "overhaul" himself. Hindsight is 20/20 and I do realize that I was the only one doing the compromising - he didn't budge and inch.
Author curiousnycgirl Posted December 31, 2009 Author Posted December 31, 2009 Perhaps not relevant but, in my own circumstance, I stopped feeling the marriage and started thinking it at a point long before MC and divorce. IMO, it was a defense mechanism to balance the dearth of emotion from my stbx but, regardless, it changed the dynamic. Processing an intimate relationship cognitively chills the dynamic. There is no depth. That could explain his actions, IDK. Sorry this happened to you. Adventures (and relationships) are supposed to be fun and fulfilling. I think what you wrote is very relevant and very interesting. Why would you not try to fix things? Why would you just emotionally check out?
lostboyuk Posted December 31, 2009 Posted December 31, 2009 Curious Dear me, I didn't realise how similar our circumstances were. I've been so very similar in it's always been me putting in the effort and getting little back. In my case i believe it has much to do with my GFs inability to do things in fear she gets it wrong and/or the fact she has felt she can't live up to my/her own expectations. I do understand what you mean about how it hurt he didn't reply. I feel you may not actually be hurt that he hasn't replied but more because he has not responded to what you were trying to illicit from him, what I'm saying is are you not disappointed in yourself? IDK coping? Well i really don't know, as you know I just had contact for 1st time in 4 days (not long I know but felt like eternity). The letter I left earlier for her? Her response to MY heartfelt messages was by text "thank you for the letter and Christmas presents" !!! Keep talking about it, not always to get advice but to play it out loud to yourself. Spend time on here, the water from eyes seems to stop for a while I am. Think about the future, I know that hurts too but you have to think of you and all you can be and do. If all that fails simply sit on the sofa and let the water cometh from thy eyes! Thinking of you
Author curiousnycgirl Posted December 31, 2009 Author Posted December 31, 2009 I feel you may not actually be hurt that he hasn't replied but more because he has not responded to what you were trying to illicit from him, what I'm saying is are you not disappointed in yourself? IDK Yup you are absolutely right - I was hoping he would read that, recognize that I did not want it to end, and move heaven and earth to make things all better. I am terribly hurt that this did not happen. The letter I left earlier for her? Her response to MY heartfelt messages was by text "thank you for the letter and Christmas presents" !!! Remember I was one of those who said it was ok to write the letter? And I said that I had written a heart felt one as well - well now you've read the note I sent him. As far as christmas presents - thankfully I only bought 2. One I sold to someone else, the other is sitting in my closet, totally useless to me. Keep talking about it, not always to get advice but to play it out loud to yourself. Spend time on here, the water from eyes seems to stop for a while I am. Think about the future, I know that hurts too but you have to think of you and all you can be and do. If all that fails simply sit on the sofa and let the water cometh from thy eyes! Hmmm you spying on me? Somehow you know exactly what I'm doing lately! I'll be very happy when work gets busy again!
lostboyuk Posted December 31, 2009 Posted December 31, 2009 Hey again LMAO (not really) CMAO! New acronym - get me! Wish we could PM, too shy to post my letter! I didn't ask for response from her but hoped for one! If nothing else she has it to keep if she ever wants to think about it I suppose. Not spying! In the nicest possible way it's good to know I ain't the only miserable person in the world!!! Dreading work, fell apart back in sept, no idea how I'll do it this time round!
carhill Posted December 31, 2009 Posted December 31, 2009 I think what you wrote is very relevant and very interesting. Why would you not try to fix things? Why would you just emotionally check out? Me, personally? I would, and did (try to 'fix' things), repeatedly communicating my needs. I participated in stbx's interests and engaged her in the best manner I knew how. It was only after about two years of that where I gave up and disconnected emotionally. We didn't start MC until around the time of my EA, which began six months or so prior to joining LS. A healthy relationship shouldn't be a lot of work. It should be, overwhelmingly, a positive experience and support in one's life. At some point, when it just becomes another task, it's time to move on. Polite disinterest.
Author curiousnycgirl Posted December 31, 2009 Author Posted December 31, 2009 Me, personally? I would, and did (try to 'fix' things), repeatedly communicating my needs. I participated in stbx's interests and engaged her in the best manner I knew how. It was only after about two years of that where I gave up and disconnected emotionally. We didn't start MC until around the time of my EA, which began six months or so prior to joining LS. A healthy relationship shouldn't be a lot of work. It should be, overwhelmingly, a positive experience and support in one's life. At some point, when it just becomes another task, it's time to move on. Polite disinterest. I see well at least you tried, he didn't try. At least not that I am aware of.
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