Author Toodamnpragmatic Posted December 30, 2009 Author Posted December 30, 2009 I have read that men cheat for physical validation. Since sex is how men express their love, sex is very, very important to the male species. If he feels he is WANTED sexually, the emotions (love) will follow towards the person who desires him physically, and RSEPECTS him. No offense guys, but it makes you easier to manipulate, IMHO. Women are trickier. They need emotional validation to feel sexual; respected, appreciated, and cherished. A man who cheats is easier to rehabilitate, than a woman who does so, according to the psych lit. I read, because he may still truly love his wife, but doesn't know how to get her passionately re-engaged with him, and find sex elsewhere. Hence, more guilt, more remorse, and more willingness to work on the marriage. Women justify it all because they "fell in love." Hence, the walkaway wife syndrome is growing in numbers. And because she did it for true love, she may never come back. Just what I have been reading lately..... and want to hear others and their views. Remember some men (see Tiger Woods) are serial cheaters, and there is no rehabilitating (or so it looks). However it seems so friggin simple for women to "win" (I know a very subjective word:p;)) back their husband..... http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?t=214432&page=3 see post 42 and how simple it was in this case:laugh:...... The Walkaway Wife phenomenon just validates the problems men have in "winning back" their spouse....
JamesM Posted December 30, 2009 Posted December 30, 2009 Men and women cheat for the same reasons....lack of proper coping skills to marital problems and lower( or no) boundary standards where fidelity is concerned. Simple, they cheat because they want to. I disagree. It is entirely possible that every skill was used to fix the marriage, and yet the wife made no effort to uphold her end of the marriage. Take a sexless marriage for example , the husband tries everything to get the wife to understand how important sex is to him in the marriage. Yet she persists in minimizing sex and ignoring his pleas and attempts at change. Finally, out of frustration and more of a cry for help than an interest in an affair, he cheats. The difference is accountability. When men cheat they are no good slime and for good reason but when women cheat somehow they are still made out to be the victim. And so the husband of the above example is a jerk who cheated, and the wife who ignored the needs of her husband is now the "betrayed spouse" and seemingly an innocent victim. I have read that men cheat for physical validation. Since sex is how men express their love, sex is very, very important to the male species. If he feels he is WANTED sexually, the emotions (love) will follow towards the person who desires him physically, and RSEPECTS him. No offense guys, but it makes you easier to manipulate, IMHO. I agree. And yes, we ARE easy to manipulate. That is why I cannot understand why women don't get it...at least those who refuse the sex the man desires. A man who cheats is easier to rehabilitate, than a woman who does so, according to the psych lit. I read, because he may still truly love his wife, but doesn't know how to get her passionately re-engaged with him, and find sex elsewhere. Hence, more guilt, more remorse, and more willingness to work on the marriage. For me, this would be true. I can say that an affair would be the last resort. It would not be out of love. So why not divorce? says someone. Well, dear reader, we don't WANT a divorce. We simply want a happy and complete marriage with the woman we love.
atlnay Posted December 30, 2009 Posted December 30, 2009 atlnay Your odds are way above 1 in 10, more closer to above 5 in 10 You proved my point, I was being cautious, but yes. My male friends told me I can pretty much have ANY of the 10 guys without much of an effort, while they have to WORK hard to try to convince a woman and even then, there are no guarantees she'll go through with it. Something I had a hard time believing a few years ago but understanding men a bit better now, I can see it clearer.
bentnotbroken Posted December 30, 2009 Posted December 30, 2009 I disagree. It is entirely possible that every skill was used to fix the marriage, and yet the wife made no effort to uphold her end of the marriage. Take a sexless marriage for example , the husband tries everything to get the wife to understand how important sex is to him in the marriage. Yet she persists in minimizing sex and ignoring his pleas and attempts at change. Finally, out of frustration and more of a cry for help than an interest in an affair, he cheats. Then leave or be celibate. Cheating is never an answer to issues. We will agree to disagree. Men aren't the only ones who are denied sex or good sex. Woggle IMO a cheating woman isn't a victim any more than a cheating man is.. get out or get a grip.
carhill Posted December 30, 2009 Posted December 30, 2009 Every post seems to have the same theme..... Women cheat for a myriad of reasons, usually it is because they have "fallen out of love" or need that Emotional connection missing from their spouse. Sex is seldom mentioned. This is why I had an EA and I'm not a woman. Inappropriate and poor choice but the impetus was well-communicated prior and expanded upon in MC. Incompatible emotional styles. I had no complaints about sex.
Author Toodamnpragmatic Posted December 30, 2009 Author Posted December 30, 2009 This is why I had an EA and I'm not a woman. Inappropriate and poor choice but the impetus was well-communicated prior and expanded upon in MC. Incompatible emotional styles. I had no complaints about sex. it never became a PA????? Interesting if that is the case..... Is it just an EA because it was a woman you were talking too????? Face it, we men can't talk to other males about 90% of the things we'd tell a woman....
angie2443 Posted December 30, 2009 Posted December 30, 2009 it never became a PA????? Interesting if that is the case..... Is it just an EA because it was a woman you were talking too????? Face it, we men can't talk to other males about 90% of the things we'd tell a woman.... Is this because 90% of the things men tell women is to get them in bed, IYO? An honest question, really.
JamesM Posted December 30, 2009 Posted December 30, 2009 Then leave or be celibate. Cheating is never an answer to issues. We will agree to disagree. Men aren't the only ones who are denied sex or good sex. No...you misunderstood me, I think. I do not think that cheating is an answer that is good. I do not think it is a way to solve the issues. I only give a reason that cheating happens. At the time, the person who ends up in an affair, can see no other choice. I do not think that cheaters (in general) have less marital coping skills. I don't even think that it means they love their spouse less. (It may). I think it may mean that extreme frustration and anger caused them to choose the path that they see as the only available one. Leaving sounds easy, but cheating is easier. Both are painful, but oddly enough, (even when we read here), more affairs lead to a reconciliation of the marriage than do leaving/divorcing. Again, I am not justifying an affair as a way to solve marriage problems. I think my history says that. However, as I have stated before and do now, in many/most cases, the problems of the marriage cause the affair. The WS does not choose an affair in a vacuum. I am well aware that women also are stuck in sexless marriages. I have read many of their stories, too. However, it is less common. There are many reasons that people cheat. Categorizing them all as less skilled in marriage or doing it simply because they can, IMO, isn't the correct answer.
carhill Posted December 30, 2009 Posted December 30, 2009 t never became a PA????? Interesting if that is the case..... Is it just an EA because it was a woman you were talking too????? Face it, we men can't talk to other males about 90% of the things we'd tell a woman....Read my journals. Strictly EA. 25 years worth, on and off. What made it an EA was the feelings behind the actions and that I prioritized it ahead of my M during the latest iteration. That's the 'wrong' in the act. Had it merely been a female friend, and the priority appropriate and transparent to the M, then no EA, IMO. In many cases, such dynamics are indeed a methodology of obtaining sex, but such was not the case for me. In the past, prior to M, when my needs were not being met, I ended the relationship/friendship, but, while M, my emotional strength was not there and I followed an incorrect path of lesser resistance, which I likely would not have done had MC occurred earlier. So, for me, that was the lesson. Take positive action sooner. The end result still might be the same, but less hurt is inflicted along the way.
JamesM Posted December 30, 2009 Posted December 30, 2009 Is this because 90% of the things men tell women is to get them in bed, IYO? An honest question, really. No, I think what he means is that we don't tell other men the same issues that we can tell women because it leaves us looking weak and vulnerable. Men feel that they need to project a strong and confident image to other men. And while we would like to open up, we also look at other men who open up to us about their feelings as weaker than us.
carhill Posted December 30, 2009 Posted December 30, 2009 Men feel that they need to project a strong and confident image to other men. And while we would like to open up, we also look at other men who open up to us about their feelings as weaker than us.IME, most of the men who 'open up' to me do so as a result of two dynamics: 1. Acceptance. I accept them and love them for who they are. 2. Non-competition. They do not see me as a competitor. IOW, 'inside' information they share with me is not used against them. This is why men are generally closed with each other. We compete with each other every day to win, whether it be in business, family or women. Society (and women) love and worship successful men and a man's ego is driven by this reality from a young age.
Spark1111 Posted December 30, 2009 Posted December 30, 2009 it never became a PA????? Interesting if that is the case..... Is it just an EA because it was a woman you were talking too????? Face it, we men can't talk to other males about 90% of the things we'd tell a woman.... TDP, there is a very interesting book that received some media attention a while back, call "The Secrets of Happily Married Men" by Scott Haltzman I think. He, it, the book is Christian-based. But the premise is exactly what you just posted. Men DO NOT SHARE emotional issues with each other. Soooooo, the author wanted to know those men who were truly happy in their marriage (i.e. lots of sex;)) what they were DOING RIGHT in the relationship. It is a very interesting read. Why dontcha find a copy.
Author Toodamnpragmatic Posted December 30, 2009 Author Posted December 30, 2009 Is this because 90% of the things men tell women is to get them in bed, IYO? An honest question, really. If we don't want sex..... That is why I do not get this crap about EA's.... If you are having an EA it is for a male to get to the eventual end game, which is SEX.... I can talk here to people on this forum about my issues and even take it off line.... That does not mean I want a EA/PA..... I can talk openly, which does not mean I am having an EA..... Maybe we should all be seeing/talking to cousellors.....
carhill Posted December 30, 2009 Posted December 30, 2009 For some people, even *gasp* some men, EMA's are about a fulfilling, total relationship, not just components. Bad timing, poor boundaries, inappropriate choices all included. Increasingly, for both women and men, those relationships include both emotional and physical components. Surely, for some people, sex is the 'end game'; for others, it is part of what they desire in a partner, physical contact and affection. I read anecdotes from men on LS not only being deprived of sex, but also essential physical affection, which extends to the emotional intimacy components of a M. Things aren't so easily delineated into E and P as they might seem at first blush. Intimacy and sex aren't just about penises and vaginas
dprtman09 Posted December 30, 2009 Posted December 30, 2009 If we don't want sex..... That is why I do not get this crap about EA's.... If you are having an EA it is for a male to get to the eventual end game, which is SEX.... I can talk here to people on this forum about my issues and even take it off line.... That does not mean I want a EA/PA..... I can talk openly, which does not mean I am having an EA..... Maybe we should all be seeing/talking to cousellors..... TDP, that is the point. Men want to get into bed. That is their primary goal and it's human nature, not evil. Women need to have the emotional attachment first. If an EA gets too far along, the woman will go to bed. This may not be true in every case, but unless there are other psychological problems, it will be true. Old book: Women are From Venus, Men are From Mars--Check it out. Over the decades, gender equality has drowned out physical reality.
dprtman09 Posted December 30, 2009 Posted December 30, 2009 The difference is accluntability. When men cheat they are no good slime and for good reason but when women cheat somehow they are still made out to be the victim. How right you are. Neither man nor woman has a right to cheat. Women are not victims, it's just a throwback to previous generations when women were viewed as lesser human beings. It's a convenient cop-out. Let's stop being equals long enough, though, to realize that men and women are pysically and chemically different. If that weren't true, there would be no mating as we know it. That could be problematic. Bottom line: Don't value judge the person, value judge the situation.
Author Toodamnpragmatic Posted December 31, 2009 Author Posted December 31, 2009 to say it was only about sex that I had an affair...... Lizzy, where are you????? Also as we continue on the EA track..... Is there any reason to have one that doesn't lead to physical for a male (Carhill excepted)???? All an EA is to my line of thinking is a person you can open up and talk about the troubles in your marriage/life (yes I am generalizing).....
carhill Posted December 31, 2009 Posted December 31, 2009 Not sure if relevant, but I'll post some experience anyway..... The why of the EA, as explained to me as an OM and IME, was/is understanding, empathy, intimacy and attention, in various orders depending on the psychology of the moment. One can get those needs/desires met in many ways and from many sources but, when they begin to focus on one person, opaque to the M or R, and in priority over their partner, that is where, IMO, health crosses over to affair. For myself, as an OM, I ended the contact when I saw a clearly stated desire to keep our contact opaque to the M. Over the seven or so years, and a couple of other sexual affairs by the MW, I never got the impression that we were moving towards PA because, and this is key, she was getting what she needed without sex. She used sex with other men because they wouldn't give her what she needed without getting something (sex) in return. Quid pro quo. Sex was a tool to facilitate validation. It wasn't necessary with myself, so no PA. It, and a few subsequent experiences, are where my opinion of women started to change. Marriage changed it completely. No illusions any more. Pedestals destroyed and the molds melted down for scrap. IME, women (MW) who seek out men to validate themselves, regardless of the issues in their M, are overwhelmingly using sex to facilitate that validation, even if there is no sexual contact. The power of sexual attraction is strong. I've watched married women play with it for many years, both as a single and married man. They play with it, and men, like dolls, without having actual sexual desire (for that man) themselves. It's fake. I saw evidence of it in my '3 cats and a mouse' journal. I, too would like to hear women's perspective on this, away from the particulars of their stories. My data sample is quite small, thankfully In closing, and I see this in my own divorce, the gender focuses on networking, consensus-building and in-depth friendship which women have serve them well in all aspects of relationships, including if/when they cheat. In comparison, men are often literally the lone wolf. It's up to men to change that. Evolve. I think, if they do, they'll find fewer 'reasons' to cheat and better health from choosing a path other than infidelity.
Woggle Posted December 31, 2009 Posted December 31, 2009 Woggle IMO a cheating woman isn't a victim any more than a cheating man is.. get out or get a grip. I agree with you but many do not.
J dub Posted December 31, 2009 Posted December 31, 2009 GENERALLY, women cheat after already making a conscious decision to do so. They are usually emotionally removed from the relationship already, before they cheat. Men, on the other hand - can cheat without prior planning (ie, one night stand, getting sucked in to a sexual rendevous after drinks, etc) and are more likely to act before thinking about the repercussions of the situation. Regardless of the statistics/facts/opinions, are you looking for a pattern of sorts, to fill in your situation? Because every incident has so many variables, it is impossible to pinpoint an exact time/reason why someone becomes deceitful.
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