fortitude Posted December 29, 2009 Posted December 29, 2009 I've been married 20 years. 5 years ago, I started uncovering some odd things, and to make a long story short, found multiple 'secret friends,' nothing romantic or sexual that I ever found, but all big secrets. I also found out he'd remained in contact with a woman behind my back throughout most of our marriage, from a time we were separated for a year, years ago. At the time, I believed he hadn't left for another woman because he even had a very well-grounded, experienced, and smart marriage counselor fooled that there was no one else. I trusted her instincts, and it turns out she and I were both wrong. Today, I got proof that he slept not only with that woman from years ago, but with another one I never suspected. Why do I feel the need to visualize him with them, and know the details? Logically, I know the details don't matter. Is it because I still need to make it completely real to myself after years of being told nothing happened, and I think this will somehow help? He has portrayed himself all these years as the good religious, devoted husband and father. I feel like I'm living with something close to a split personality, now realizing that he has almost beyond doubt slept with at least half a dozen women during our marriage (and those are only the incidents I know of-- I'm well aware there may be plenty that never snagged my radar.) I also wonder, given the nature of the porn he's watched over the years and that he attended pot and hooking-up parties with both these women, if this was just one on one sex, separately, with each of them, or if it was group sex. Do others feel the need to 'see' it, to know the details? I can't believe this is my life.
Natureofbeast Posted December 29, 2009 Posted December 29, 2009 If as you have said he has portrayed himself as a good father and good man–IE one that would not have EMA, then at this point its not surprising if you are having a hard time reckoning between the man you thought he was, and the man you have recently learned him to be. Now that said the fact that you have come to learn of the EMAs does not mean that he is not still by nature the good man you thought him to be. His EMAs does not make or break his character–it is simply a flaw of his character–yes maybe even a marriage breaker –that’s for you to decide. Its not however uncommon for the BS to want the whole truth and nothing but–all the details. Some say this can help with the healing. For my part, think it depends on the person. Guess I do not know your whole story–sorry. Are you wanting to save your marriage?
bentnotbroken Posted December 29, 2009 Posted December 29, 2009 You should go post on the dilemma thread where the WS doesn't want to tell the wife.
outofthedark Posted December 29, 2009 Posted December 29, 2009 I ignored red flags and felt something was off. I made justifications for his actions and behaviors but never felt completely comfortable with it. Then it all came out and I found out of his indiscretions. I wanted to know everything, every singe detail about everything. I asked questions that looking back I dont see the point now but I needed to know then. My Shrink says its like this. I have this big puzzle in front of me. I have many pieces that dont fit and some that are blurry so I cannot see where they are supposed to fit. I have some pieces that are missing. Since some of the indiscretions happened almost a year ago, I am trying to put my puzzle together as a timelime so that it all fits and is clear. She says this is good for me... I agree. I do feel like my puzzle has almost come together, although some of those pieces hurt like hell to hear and learn. My SO is attending therapy with me as a couple. He has agreed to answer all my questions and thus far has been very forthcoming about details. Details of the events I know about... I am still not 100% sure I know of every event though. My Advice to you is ask him directly. I did and it has helped. Crazy stuff I asked like, what color was her hair, what did she taste like, what positions were you in, were you intoxicated, did he cum, did she cum, did you cum, drive me by their apartment... on and on and on. He has answered all of them thus far though as the days go on questions still pop up and at times I can see he is uncomfortable. Good Luck with your "puzzle".
BlueeyedJonesy Posted December 29, 2009 Posted December 29, 2009 When your mind doesn't know every detail of something so damaging Your imagination draws its own conclusions. You have been lied to for so long that its probably worse.. I am terribly sorry that you are going through this. good luck
aeh Posted December 29, 2009 Posted December 29, 2009 Yes, I know exactly how you feel. I asked every question in the book, down to the most minute details. Six months later, when I still think surely there couldn't be anything left to ask, I will think of something new. And when I thought I knew everything that could possibly be due to my millions of questions, there was still more to find out. I'm sorry you're in this situation. A big hug to you.
Author fortitude Posted December 29, 2009 Author Posted December 29, 2009 Nature of the Beast, no I do not want to save the marriage. It is not possible because he refuses to change. No real apology, no sign of sincere remorse, has trickle-truthed me for 5 years and as I found out yesterday, is still lying and covering up. All evidence says he's been sleeping around on me for most of our 20 years together. He won't be honest with marriage counselors, he walked out on me at Retrouvaille because I objected to him trading cutesy forwards with yet another woman, he keeps secrets (ie, more young, single women) on his social networking sites, he lies to his individual counselor, and he keeps quitting that counseling, too. He's given me almost nothing to work with to save this marriage, and acts like he's done everything in the world for me by giving up one woman. Out of the dark, I have asked directly for years and now know I have gotten nothing but lies all that time. Even now, he denies sleeping with her when I now have proof he did. I won't get any answers by asking directly.
Author fortitude Posted December 29, 2009 Author Posted December 29, 2009 I guess why this is so hard to *believe* even when I KNOW for a fact now that it happened, is because he has portrayed himself for 20 years as the perfect family man, doing scouts with the boys, at one time singing in the church choir, working so hard to support his growing family, and constantly letting me know how he's sacrificed for me, how hard he works for me. We sit together and pray as a family every night. It boggles my mind to think that all this is going on while he acts so differently at home. It feels like being in a horror movie, maybe with someone with something close to a split personality.
Blindsidedagainalive Posted December 29, 2009 Posted December 29, 2009 Whenever I see a zealot, I get scared. Nightly prayers.........rubbish! Morals and religion do not coincide. Some of the most moral, decent people are athiests, and vice versa. Obviously, you have been at the receiving end of a person who has very serious issues. It does not appear that he is giving you much to work with. Go to a lawyer and file immediately. If that does not nock him off the fence, and own up to his issues, nothing will. PLEASE take care of yourself....So sorry this happenend to you.
Natureofbeast Posted December 29, 2009 Posted December 29, 2009 I do understand how you are feeling. Experience is a good teacher. I likened it myself . . . "he had a face that he faced the world with and a face that he faced his family with." In point of fact he has worn many "caps"/ faces in his life–so to speak for the many roles he has played in his life. We all wear different caps–he just chose to wear the cap of a cheating spouse, leaving me no choice but to wear the cap of a betrayed spouse. My heart does go out to you and I am so sorry you and yours are having to go through this. It will get better in time. Whether you chose to stay or go. But time is really the only thing that heals these kind of wounds. And these are the kind of wounds that will leave at least some vintage of a scar.
Author fortitude Posted December 29, 2009 Author Posted December 29, 2009 blindsided, I am the one who values nightly and family prayer. He just goes along and pretends it's his value, too. What I have come to see about him is that his only real value in life is being liked, and that makes him a chameleon, pretending to be like whoever he's with. One of the disturbing things early on was finding e-mails with a woman in which, while there was nothing sexual or romantic, the words were that of a man entirely different from the one I knew at home, using words and language I've never heard him use, etc.
2sure Posted December 29, 2009 Posted December 29, 2009 Your Husband like mine is a serial cheater. My H also had an entire separate life, identity. Let me tell you something: this is HIS problem, this type of cheating does not occur because of something lacking in the marriage or in you. Its all him. Now, just to address the question in your post as to why you want details. For me, I had many details and pursued obtaining more (initially). I wanted all of this information so I would have "proof". After having more than enough and still being told lies, I didnt need the details any longer. But for awhile I could not help myself from wondering about them, finding out more about his partners, etc. I realized that having all of this information about the cheating - the whens the wheres and the whos...I was trying to find out about the life I was living , the part I didnt know about. As if by knowing the details , finding the details ...I was at last participating in an ugly but important part of my life. For me, it gave me some relief, some sense of control, and ultimately release. Once none of it was a secret to me, it couldnt hurt me so much.
Author fortitude Posted December 30, 2009 Author Posted December 30, 2009 Your Husband like mine is a serial cheater. My H also had an entire separate life, identity. Let me tell you something: this is HIS problem, this type of cheating does not occur because of something lacking in the marriage or in you. Its all him. Now, just to address the question in your post as to why you want details. For me, I had many details and pursued obtaining more (initially). I wanted all of this information so I would have "proof". After having more than enough and still being told lies, I didnt need the details any longer. But for awhile I could not help myself from wondering about them, finding out more about his partners, etc. I realized that having all of this information about the cheating - the whens the wheres and the whos...I was trying to find out about the life I was living , the part I didnt know about. As if by knowing the details , finding the details ...I was at last participating in an ugly but important part of my life. For me, it gave me some relief, some sense of control, and ultimately release. Once none of it was a secret to me, it couldnt hurt me so much. Knowing he slept with "ow1" (who now turns out to be #3) doesn't surprise me. Now that I know for sure, I'm curious who hit on who, did it start at work, etc. What I really need to start with, and he'll lie despite my proof that it DID happen, is the broad strokes. He also slept with her best friend, at pot and hooking-up parties. When I had a keylogger on the computer, I found he likes watching porn with Asian women (#1/3 is part Asian) and he likes watching women together. So now I don't even know if I'm dealing with 'normal' average sex or if I'm dealing with a man who's been engaging in threesomes or voyeurism. None of it makes any difference. I've set my course. But you're right, I want to know what my marriage really was, and who I was really married to all these years.
dazzle22 Posted December 30, 2009 Posted December 30, 2009 How did he manage to keep such a HUGE secret life from you? Pot and hooking up parties, and then coming home for "family prayers" and being in the church choir?? Wow! What an actor.
bentnotbroken Posted December 30, 2009 Posted December 30, 2009 How did he manage to keep such a HUGE secret life from you? Pot and hooking up parties, and then coming home for "family prayers" and being in the church choir?? Wow! What an actor. Not unheard of. It happens more than most of us know.
Author fortitude Posted December 30, 2009 Author Posted December 30, 2009 How did he manage to keep such a HUGE secret life from you? Pot and hooking up parties, and then coming home for "family prayers" and being in the church choir?? Wow! What an actor. Church/prayers/choir and pot parties didn't coincide. He was going to the parties the year we were separated, years ago. I don't remember if I knew about the parties then or only later, but considering my 'parties' with friends had been hanging out with nothing more wild than a beer, and he'd portrayed himself as being like me, that's what I imagined. It has taken years of asking myself, and others who have lived a very different life from me, why he went to such trouble to hide an e-mail about a party, and telling him his story is BS, before he admitted they involved sex and drugs. Even now, he swears he took no part, didn't even know about the sex. I have proof that's also a lie. Singing in the choir was before the separation, and going to church again afterward, family prayers now, so he was never actually running from pot parties to family prayers. (And actually, he barely goes to church at all, but pretends that's because of his work schedule.) It's just that this is the image he has portrayed to me over the years, and still swears the separation was about me making him miserable.
1_hangininthere Posted December 31, 2009 Posted December 31, 2009 My H cheated on me at least 3 times that I know of. When I became suspicious of #4 I left him before I had all the facts. I decided that I would not sit around and wait for facts and watch him cheat on me again. So now I find myself constantly looking for proof of the last affair. For me I am looking for confirmation that I did the right thing. I am looking to relieve the guilt I feel for "breaking up the marriage and family." I don't want to get into my problems here, but I am trying to make the point that we somehow need to make sense of something that is crazy. My therapist has pretty much said that even with all the facts it will never make sense because you can't make sense of craziness.
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