Spark1111 Posted December 28, 2009 Posted December 28, 2009 Just curious. MY WS has sworn he NEVER said a bad word about me, but I think many were IMPLIED. I recently had the opportunity to speak with the OW in our triangle, and initially she seemed somewhat contemptuous and slightly superior to me....until she heard I was a nice person who wished her no harm. Hell, I AM a nice person. But I wonder what is implied by the WS and then assumed by the AP in the affair situation to keep everyone strung along, specifically in regards to the BS? Please be honest, if you know and have discussed it. Thanks, in advance.
Brokenlady Posted December 28, 2009 Posted December 28, 2009 xDM told her only some of what he told me about her, mostly the least offensive stuff. I recently told her the rest when she called me. I know she felt very violated that I knew so much about her. Frankly, I also feel violated by how much he told her about me, but so far as I can tell, he never said a single bad thing about me to her. And if he had, I'm sure she would have told me.
WifeCheatedOnMe Posted December 28, 2009 Posted December 28, 2009 WS had nothing but good things to say about me personally, other than I didn't fill that emotional need she needed. He actually felt inferior to me in regards to intelligence, looks and success and that would eventually become a problem between them likely if the relationship continued. I'm 6'2, fit and have my hair, he's 5'4, balding and wears glasses. Just goes to show it's not about physical connections but emotional.
Author Spark1111 Posted December 28, 2009 Author Posted December 28, 2009 BL, initially my husband did not have a single bad word to say about his OW, and I have to say if you are going to chuck it all over for someone other than your spouse, I believe that is how it should be. I mean, be respectful forcryingoutloud! She was a victim of his mid-life mess too! Also, he now seems to think she wanted what I had, and he was the ticket to get there. What did I have? I wondered. A cheating spouse? But I think he was talking external trappings; nice house, good job, lots of friends and supportive family, a good father to my children, a (ahem) devoted husband. Well, that's what he convinced her he was. A good man. And yes, it was mostly emotional in it's lure.
Brokenlady Posted December 28, 2009 Posted December 28, 2009 Also, he now seems to think she wanted what I had, and he was the ticket to get there. What did I have? I wondered. A cheating spouse? But I think he was talking external trappings; nice house, good job, lots of friends and supportive family, a good father to my children, a (ahem) devoted husband. Well, that's what he convinced her he was. A good man. And yes, it was mostly emotional in it's lure. I can honestly say I was never jealous of his xW. He had nothing to say about her that I would envy, and according to him, he was repulsed by her. I do well for myself and have a nice house, my children have a father and I would not seek to "replace" him, and professionally, I am better off than she is. Rather, he had me convinced he that suffered under the tyranny of this horrible woman (so "horrible" that he refused to fully give her up, apparently) and I wanted to rescue him. I believed him to have a wonderful, honest, and beautiful soul, and I was wildly attracted to the person I saw inside. Maybe that person was never really there. Certainly, I was misled and lied to about many things just so he could me without really giving up too much. Even now, I doubt he has much bad to say about me. Afterall, what did I do except take care of and coddle him while he hurt me? At worst, his chief complaint is that I "broke his trust" by revealing all to his xW. I guess Bernie Madoff feels the same way about his kids. Oh, and that I was impatient - he says he was trying his hardest, and it just wasn't fast enough for good enough for me (his efforts to emotionally seperate from xW). But that is the worst he can truthfully say. It'll be interesting to see if I hear later that he's been talking a lot of trash about me. But hopefully by then, I won't care.
silktricks Posted December 28, 2009 Posted December 28, 2009 I can't say what he may or may not have said to the OW in phone or face-to-face convos, however, I can say that in emails he didn't say anything derogatory towards me. He didn't really say anything at all... it was as if I simply didn't exist. For example he would talk about trips we had taken together, but he would make it sound as if he was by himself - and in many ways, he probably was . I did ask him what he said about me, and he said that he said.. :lmao: that I was more interested in my career than in him - or words to that effect (it's been a long time, and I frankly don't remember a ton of it anymore). Since that was his #1 complaint about me, I'm pretty much certain that he did, in fact, make that statement to her as well. He's a pretty private person overall. So when he said to me that he didn't say anything else, I believe him. For example, he didn't tell her that we were separated..... .
Natureofbeast Posted December 29, 2009 Posted December 29, 2009 I think BS often gets painted the culprit–it helps to appease their guilt, it also garners sympathy from the OW/OM. And when the A is over, and the rose colored glasses are off, the shoe often get put on the other foot and the BS gets an ear full of the OW/OM faults and flaws.
fortitude Posted December 29, 2009 Posted December 29, 2009 He admitted to me that he 'vented' about me a lot at first, but less so in later years. He swore she never had any real opinion, never encouraged him to divorce me, etc. I now know that she has been upfront about encouraging him to continue lying and to divorce me for years, in addition to calling me some pretty ugly names herself. Nice to know he covered for her and protected her image.
Natureofbeast Posted December 29, 2009 Posted December 29, 2009 There is another side to this. Especially if ego is involved. Crazy as it might sound. The AP in some instances does not tear down the OW/OM because to do so would make them think that you-BS-- would think less of them to do so. Remember, they traded up or down–which ever the case may be-- for you–depending on which picture they want to paint for the BS.
eeyore1981 Posted December 29, 2009 Posted December 29, 2009 This came up between H and me a couple of days before this thread started. He claims he didn't badmouth me to OW, but here is an example of what was done. He told OW we got into a huge fight because our daughter ran out of gas in the pouring rain, I wanted her to walk home, and he refused to go along with it, so he went and bailed her out, and got reamed by me for it. All true, and see how this makes him look soooo good, and me soooo bad? The rest of the story is our daughter was being extremely irresponsible. My H and I had many conversations over this where I stated I believed we needed to quit enabling her, and he agreed. (One of his many P/A things to me, just say what I want to hear, then do whatever he wants.) I had then explained to our daughter she needed to get her priorities straightened out. If the 8hr a week $30 paycheck job was important to her, she needed to learn to live on $30 a week. If running around with her friends burning 2 tanks of gas and buying clothes and tattoos was important, she needed to change jobs to support this lifestyle. By the time this happened, she had run out of gas almost every single week for over 3 months, and daddy had 'fixed' it for her every single time. Oh, yeah, the other minor little detail he left out of his story was she was less than 3 blocks from our house when she ran out of gas.
Author Spark1111 Posted December 29, 2009 Author Posted December 29, 2009 Eeyore, good point. I think every action or argument was spun to his benefit to make him appear like father of the year and me as the vicious shrew. One thing he did confide to me about the OW, is that she NEVER disagreed with his spin on any situation. (How could she? She did not know any of the players personally; friends, family, children, only his portrayal of us.) She just validated EVERYTHING he did or said as right, true and just. Truth was not important. The fantasy of always being right was. He did the same for her, too.
Brokenlady Posted December 29, 2009 Posted December 29, 2009 One thing he did confide to me about the OW, is that she NEVER disagreed with his spin on any situation. (How could she? She did not know any of the players personally; friends, family, children, only his portrayal of us.) She just validated EVERYTHING he did or said as right, true and just. Truth was not important. The fantasy of always being right was. He did the same for her, too. I didn't. I called him out on the carpet when it seemed like he was trying to justify being a jerk to her. And it pissed him off. But oh well.
aeh Posted December 29, 2009 Posted December 29, 2009 Interesting thread. My H insists he never badmouthed me to his MOW, other than to say he wasn't getting any sex. I kind of believe him because this is the way he is in all situations, rarely says an unkind word about anyone. However, would love to know if that's all...Not that it really matters.
angie2443 Posted December 29, 2009 Posted December 29, 2009 This came up between H and me a couple of days before this thread started. He claims he didn't badmouth me to OW, but here is an example of what was done. He told OW we got into a huge fight because our daughter ran out of gas in the pouring rain, I wanted her to walk home, and he refused to go along with it, so he went and bailed her out, and got reamed by me for it. All true, and see how this makes him look soooo good, and me soooo bad? The rest of the story is our daughter was being extremely irresponsible. My H and I had many conversations over this where I stated I believed we needed to quit enabling her, and he agreed. (One of his many P/A things to me, just say what I want to hear, then do whatever he wants.) I had then explained to our daughter she needed to get her priorities straightened out. If the 8hr a week $30 paycheck job was important to her, she needed to learn to live on $30 a week. If running around with her friends burning 2 tanks of gas and buying clothes and tattoos was important, she needed to change jobs to support this lifestyle. By the time this happened, she had run out of gas almost every single week for over 3 months, and daddy had 'fixed' it for her every single time. Oh, yeah, the other minor little detail he left out of his story was she was less than 3 blocks from our house when she ran out of gas. My H has done similar things in the past, and sometimes now. He leaves out the parts of a story that make him look bad and exaggerates parts that make him look good. Now, at least according to him, he doesn't talk about our fights to anyone. Really, our fights aren't bad at this point anyway. I can certainly see how this behavior played a part in binding him to his xbgf when she was still in the picture.
Blindsidedagainalive Posted December 29, 2009 Posted December 29, 2009 Even for those that spoke to OM/OW.....many twists, lies, misinterpretations. Obviously, if the WW/WH make their spouse look good, the OM/OW would not want to get involved (usually). Not necessarily because they have morals and want to stay away from getting involved ......but, they would feel inferior right from the start. Worse yet, in an LTA- Would the affair partners tell each other what a wonderful night they had with their spouse.....that's a mood killer right there.
Author Spark1111 Posted December 29, 2009 Author Posted December 29, 2009 Even for those that spoke to OM/OW.....many twists, lies, misinterpretations. Obviously, if the WW/WH make their spouse look good, the OM/OW would not want to get involved (usually). Not necessarily because they have morals and want to stay away from getting involved ......but, they would feel inferior right from the start. Worse yet, in an LTA- Would the affair partners tell each other what a wonderful night they had with their spouse.....that's a mood killer right there. That is an excellent point and one I had never thought about before! There were wonderful moments and occasions between he and I during their LTA, and he would have HAD TO MINIMIZE any fun or emotional connection we had to her! I truly never thought of that before. But one thing I did notice post DDAY, was the incessant texting on our family vacation, fercryingoutloud! I mean for one week, one fabulous week with his extended family and our children arriving, which was loads of fun, they could stop texting each other! I mean, what were they afraid of? They'd fall OUT of love with each other, or he would/could actually fall back in love with ME?
Author Spark1111 Posted December 29, 2009 Author Posted December 29, 2009 based upon one of the emails from her to him, it seems like he made me out to be some nagging, shrewish cheapskate who wouldn't let him have any time with his friends ( never mind the fact that when ever he wanted to go play cards with "the guys' I was always fine with it, and would try to make sure I saved as much money from the household budget as I could for him so that he could have fun, I never bugged him about how late he stayed out, never complained when he went to one of their bachelor parties that included "adult entertainment", etc) I get the impression ( and I could be wrong, that he told he I screamed at him... etc... I most certainly did not! FS, I wish i had one single e-mail, or had been a fly on the wall. I intercepted texts that were over the top romantic, professing their undying devotion and future plans together. He was very vague about the actual moving out part, though. mind you, I also get the impression from same email that she was trying to convince him that i was some horrible person who didn't love him anymore, so i don't know how much is her telling him i'm doing these things and how much was him telling her... maybe one of these days i'll post the letter on here, and get people's opinions on it... I do know that my counselor who i was seeing at the time read it, said it was both nonsensical and at the same time one of the most manipulative things she'd ever seen, and she asked if she could have a photocopy of it for her files.. Yes, I now think this was the case in my sitch. The contempt I heard in her voice FOR ME defies description. UGH!
Author Spark1111 Posted December 30, 2009 Author Posted December 30, 2009 Same here FS. She graciously told him to work on us, to be kind to me, all the while asking how it was going, and telling him how wonderful he was, and how unbelievable it was that he had to meet with such "unrelenting hostility." Hoo boy! Two years later we finally speak and she hates my guts, and still seems to be interested in if he is still interested in her. So, while he claims to never have said a bad word about me, I can't help but wonder what was implied by him, or assumed by her! Hence, the start of this thread.
Natureofbeast Posted December 30, 2009 Posted December 30, 2009 Sparks, I do think a good word here is assume. They assume a lot. Now whether that’s fed by the WS info or the AP’s own active imagination to fulfil "their" fantasy or an attempt to free themselves of any guilt associated with their involvement with a MS–or buffer the WS guilt so A can continue, remains to be seen–or told. I find it hard to believe that OW/OM think kindly on the BS. I mean this would make their involvement with the WS, even more crucible? ( yes, I know its been said to happen) And I know that there are many who would–actually have testified to the fact on these boards that they harbored no ill will against the BS–but my opinion is that’s usually a crock, the A itself was ill will. Blindsidedagainalive, "Would the affair partners tell each other what a wonderful night they had with their spouse.....that's a mood killer right there." You are so right about that. I think the topic of the BS, is probably avoided as much as possible. Good bad or indifferent, its just gonna cause tension–in a bad way that is going to kill the A mood.
Author Spark1111 Posted December 30, 2009 Author Posted December 30, 2009 You know what NOB, I have said it once and I'll say it again: I am amazed at WHAT IS NOT DISCUSSED between APs!
eeyore1981 Posted December 30, 2009 Posted December 30, 2009 While I KNOW I was discussed during the A, I don't think I was discussed that much. I also think I was discussed more at the beginning, like bitching about me was used as 'the reason' to contact her, then they could move on to other things. And I never even got a 'thank you', ungrateful b*stards!!! Little off-topic, but I found it amusing. She told my H this sob story about the reason she got divorced was because her H was always passed out drunk, and she just couldn't take it anymore, and didn't want to raise her child in that enviroment, yadda, yadda, yadda. Her xH, her father, and several others told me her H worked 2 jobs to pay the bills because she spent so much money, and came home unexpectedly and caught her in their bed with her boss. Her H immediately left her, and even let her keep the house and most of their stuff. IMO, there's a lot of entertainment to be had getting an inside glimpse into what 2 major liars talk about with each other...
Natureofbeast Posted December 30, 2009 Posted December 30, 2009 Amusing! Indeed. Without getting into details. I was a victim of crazy breeding crazy so it was . . . really-really crazy. What they said and what was real–OMG–pure fantasy. And great fodder for entertainment later. =) Love to be able to laugh about it with H today, but I would be cruel to do so, since it would be in part at his expense. And I did the right thing and held myself accountable for my part in the vulnerability of our "growing apart". The way I figure both H and his OW wrote their own script–insane though it might have been–which I really only had a walk on and walk off bit part in until I took center stage. That was what was between the two of them, how they manipulated and justified things to each other. Their lack of grace and eventual disgrace, was of their own making, not mine. (And please do not get me wrong–the ability to look back and laugh about it, albeit privately, has taken me 3 yrs of healing to get to.) Sorry if I went off topic too.
OWoman Posted December 30, 2009 Posted December 30, 2009 Even for those that spoke to OM/OW.....many twists, lies, misinterpretations. Obviously, if the WW/WH make their spouse look good, the OM/OW would not want to get involved (usually). Not necessarily because they have morals and want to stay away from getting involved ......but, they would feel inferior right from the start. Worse yet, in an LTA- Would the affair partners tell each other what a wonderful night they had with their spouse.....that's a mood killer right there. BSAA, I think that would depend on the nature of the A. Most of my As were part-time, short-term and multiple, so I had no investment in any particular MM and had no issue either way about the BW. There was certainly no competitive aspect, and no inferiority / superiority issue - I didn't "want" him in the way she presumably did (full-time, in her space, long-term) so we served very different purposes, it would have been like comparing apples and chainsaws. I had no interest in their Rs with their Ws - but I did expect those to be good. I only hit on guys with happy, stable Ms, because the last thing I wanted was some lovelorn saddo getting infatuated with me and dumping his W and hanging around me like a lost puppy. I wanted guys who'd be happy to be sent home when I'd done with them and wanted to get on with my life without them - even though that wasn't a guarantee that they'd stay that way
OWoman Posted December 30, 2009 Posted December 30, 2009 You know what NOB, I have said it once and I'll say it again: I am amazed at WHAT IS NOT DISCUSSED between APs! I think this depends on the A. In most of my As, I didn't want to know anything about their lives, they weren't supposed to be real to me, just idle playthings to amuse myself with now and then when I felt the urge. I had my friends, my family and the rest of my life for the "real" stuff, and I didn't want them involved with any of that. In my last A, things were very different. While it initially took the "usual" form, we forged a real connection and things deepened and we became friends as well as lovers. And, because of that, we started sharing our lives with each other - all aspects of our lives. There was nothing we couldn't and didn't discuss with each other. Moving in with each other, and getting M, down the track, was completely seamless as a result.
fortitude Posted December 30, 2009 Posted December 30, 2009 The contempt I heard in her voice FOR ME defies description. UGH! OMG YES!!!!!! She slept with my husband, knows her best friend also slept with him (threesomes for all I know based on other things I know), and spent nearly a decade and a half inviting him to all kinds of social events without me and behind my back, encouraging him to think badly of me, lie to me, and divorce me, has contributed a great deal to destroying my marriage and hurting me and my children-- and she has the gall to call me a psycho for objecting to the way he's treating me????? She has the gall to call me 'weird' for putting a keylogger on to find out what MY husband is doing with another woman???? It's undescribably arrogant. I can't even contemplate such a mindset!
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