AD1980 Posted December 28, 2009 Posted December 28, 2009 Ok then what is your take on it, what is ruining things according to you? Selfishness,unrealisitic expectations etc Seeing numerous Men and women cheat at my job has soured me on marriage and proven to me msot people are selsifsh and just want the bigger better thign that is avialable to them.. People are as faitful as their options these days
espec10001 Posted December 28, 2009 Posted December 28, 2009 Ok then what is your take on it, what is ruining things according to you? I think it might have something to do with it. We live in a hyper-sexed society. Sex sells, we're bombarded by it 24/7. I think this has lead to both sexes being less "modest", and leaving little to the imagination. I'd be more intrigued and pursue a mysterious lady who was modest in dress and I could actually listen to what she said instead of being distracted by her cleavage and butt cheeks hanging out her pants. I think it just is a lack of leaving things up to the imagination that is hurting the dating scene.
InspiredbyYou Posted December 28, 2009 Posted December 28, 2009 Selfishness,unrealisitic expectations etc Seeing numerous Men and women cheat at my job has soured me on marriage and proven to me msot people are selsifsh and just want the bigger better thign that is avialable to them.. People are as faitful as their options these days And you don't think all that stems from the frivolity that people tackle sex with, coming from both genders? The way in which the genders view sex these days, and how accessible it is, how sleeping with someone is considered like changing your underwear, a daily necessity more than something special to be shared with someone you truly care about....you don't think this has any bearings on the state of how things are in society today? Wow!
AD1980 Posted December 28, 2009 Posted December 28, 2009 And you don't think all that stems from the frivolity that people tackle sex with, coming from both genders? The way in which the genders view sex these days, and how accessible it is, how sleeping with someone is considered like changing your underwear, a daily necessity more than something special to be shared with someone you truly care about....you don't think this has any bearings on the state of how things are in society today? Wow! People are people,if u give people freedom theyre gonna mess up.. WOmen didnt cheat as much as Men till they got in the work place now theyre doign it just as much as Men.. Its selfishness that kills relationships not the actual act of sex
InspiredbyYou Posted December 28, 2009 Posted December 28, 2009 I think it might have something to do with it. We live in a hyper-sexed society. Sex sells, we're bombarded by it 24/7. I think this has lead to both sexes being less "modest", and leaving little to the imagination. I'd be more intrigued and pursue a mysterious lady who was modest in dress and I could actually listen to what she said instead of being distracted by her cleavage and butt cheeks hanging out her pants. Sure it does! The whole sex industry and how accessible it is to us today also has a lot to do in desensitizing us from the mystique of sex by making it so accessible that people don't want to bother beyond a quick fix or what's easily accessible to them, but then you are left with a lot of the emptiness that is expressed on boards like this one that reflects the emotional state of our society. Don't get me wrong I am NO prude, I love sex and a healthy sexual appetite and openness to experimentation within the limits of a monogamous relationships is a huge factor for me when selecting a mate. But I do stress the "mate selection" part of the comment, since without that I see no point to sex. I don't consider myself an empty person, I tend to be happy for the most part alone or in a relationship, and I am very much in tune with my sexuality. I have been with men who were extremely sexual and expressive in this respect and it had nothing to do with the number of partners he had in his past, but more so with the depth of his character and how in tune he was with his emotions. Depth of emotional character cannot be obtained through meaningless social ties and that applies to every single aspect of how we relate to others. The plus of having emotional depth of character is also the passion one will express in a sexual situation, why would you settle for someone who tickles the surface when you can be with someone who moves you from the core? And yes I know men HATE this idea, they hate the fact that women refer to passion and earth shattering feelings, ooooh too much for the average guys to handle...or is it too much for the average guy to wrap his head around because he has never felt something like this before? I suppose it's like trying to explain to a person that was born blind what the color turquoise is like, nearly impossible.
InspiredbyYou Posted December 28, 2009 Posted December 28, 2009 WOmen didnt cheat as much as Men till they got in the work place now theyre doign it just as much as Men.. No you are right before it was just men and their secretaries.
AD1980 Posted December 28, 2009 Posted December 28, 2009 No you are right before it was just men and their secretaries. I didnt mean it literally i mean now that women are away from home and in the presence of men theyre attracted to their doing it just as much as Men Its not the actual act of sex its SELFISHNESS thats killing realtionships..
InspiredbyYou Posted December 28, 2009 Posted December 28, 2009 Its not the actual act of sex its SELFISHNESS thats killing realtionships.. So what you are telling me is that if your woman cheated on you with someone at work it would not be fact that she was riding a penis other than yours that would kill your relationship, it is her selfishness that would?
espec10001 Posted December 28, 2009 Posted December 28, 2009 Sure it does! The whole sex industry and how accessible it is to us today also has a lot to do in desensitizing us from the mystique of sex by making it so accessible that people don't want to bother beyond a quick fix or what's easily accessible to them, but then you are left with a lot of the emptiness that is expressed on boards like this one that reflects the emotional state of our society. Don't get me wrong I am NO prude, I love sex and a healthy sexual appetite and openness to experimentation within the limits of a monogamous relationships is a huge factor for me when selecting a mate. But I do stress the "mate selection" part of the comment, since without that I see no point to sex. I don't consider myself an empty person, I tend to be happy for the most part alone or in a relationship, and I am very much in tune with my sexuality. I have been with men who were extremely sexual and expressive in this respect and it had nothing to do with the number of partners he had in his past, but more so with the depth of his character and how in tune he was with his emotions. Depth of emotional character cannot be obtained through meaningless social ties and that applies to every single aspect of how we relate to others. The plus of having emotional depth of character is also the passion one will express in a sexual situation, why would you settle for someone who tickles the surface when you can be with someone who moves you from the core? And yes I know men HATE this idea, they hate the fact that women refer to passion and earth shattering feelings, ooooh too much for the average guys to handle...or is it too much for the average guy to wrap his head around because he has never felt something like this before? I suppose it's like trying to explain to a person that was born blind what the color turquoise is like, nearly impossible. I've been there. I do miss it, heck it's been so long for me I don't fully recall what it was like but I know they were experiences. Maybe modesty will come back into style. Like I think a girl who wears colorful clothing, pretty necklaces, and earrings, a unique style but COVERS her body, is sooooo attractive and adorable, it just seems much more feminine and it would just be natural to talk to her and approach her. I mean if a women wants to attract a man, wouldn't it make more sense to leave him guessing and wanting more? Instead of just putting it all out there at once? I don't get it.
AD1980 Posted December 28, 2009 Posted December 28, 2009 So what you are telling me is that if your woman cheated on you with someone at work it would not be fact that she was riding a penis other than yours that would kill your relationship, it is her selfishness that would? No my point is if she cheated on me i wouldnt say sex is evil and the root of all problems i would say shes a selfish c word and thats why she did it and why im leaving her Your blamign the actual act of sex for all this im not im blaming people who use it to cheat on people..
espec10001 Posted December 28, 2009 Posted December 28, 2009 No my point is if she cheated on me i wouldnt say sex is evil and the root of all problems i would say shes a selfish c word and thats why she did it and why im leaving her Your blamign the actual act of sex for all this im not im blaming people who use it to cheat on people.. What was the saying "Condemn the sin, forgive the sinner"?
InspiredbyYou Posted December 28, 2009 Posted December 28, 2009 I didnt mean it literally i mean now that women are away from home and in the presence of men theyre attracted to their doing it just as much as Men Women are doing it just as much as men, because men for centuries have been propagating the idea that it's ok to have casual sex when and if they need it. Women want to try everything men do, you know...equality and all... I've been there. I do miss it, heck it's been so long for me I don't fully recall what it was like but I know they were experiences. I am sure there are many many guys like you out there, I was being an extremist in my last post. Glad to hear you exist on this board though, it adds a little balance to an otherwise piranha infested water! I mean if a women wants to attract a man, wouldn't it make more sense to leave him guessing and wanting more? Instead of just putting it all out there at once? I don't get it. When you are using sex to get emotional intimacy, you will always do things to attract that first. Most people who are sexually promiscuous either are not aware of this, or are aware of it and will take that over feeling nothing because the destructive cycle is simply too hard to break out of.
InspiredbyYou Posted December 28, 2009 Posted December 28, 2009 Your blamign the actual act of sex for all this im not im blaming people who use it to cheat on people.. No of course I am not, I am blaming the vehicle of convenience that sex has become to express other deeper frustrations that people refuse to acknowledge. I hope that makes more sense?
meerkat stew Posted December 28, 2009 Posted December 28, 2009 And yes I know men HATE this idea, they hate the fact that women refer to passion and earth shattering feelings, ooooh too much for the average guys to handle...or is it too much for the average guy to wrap his head around because he has never felt something like this before? What we hate about it is not the feelings themselves or their power, but that it is so easy to falsely imitate such feelings, and we sense that for many women, it doesn't matter whether they are experiencing those feelings truly, or have been manipulated into them via some "Hallmark Moment" writ large. It seems that you just crave the feeling itself, not the underlying reality of it, or the individual man who gave you the feeling. Women's susceptibility to being fooled makes us feel completely interchangeable. This is why the PUA stuff works, the "speed hypnosis" of pressing a woman's emotional buttons by a complete stranger We don't mind you being addicted to that feeling you describe, we would just prefer that you limit your indulgence in it to legitimate drug dealers and not those hawking cotton candy as the good stuff. And as far as passion and men's ability to feel it, do you really want to line up all the historical male poets, musicians, authors, explorers, artists, zealots etc. and say the average guy doesn't have the capacity for passionate emotion that the average woman has? The difference is that men have historically focused their passion externally onto the "world," whereas women have focused their passion internally into the "earth." Perhaps some rebalancing of passionate focus on both sides of the fence is in order.
InspiredbyYou Posted December 28, 2009 Posted December 28, 2009 What we hate about it is not the feelings themselves or their power, but that it is so easy to falsely imitate such feelings, and we sense that for many women, it doesn't matter whether they are experiencing those feelings truly, or have been manipulated into them via some "Hallmark Moment" writ large. It seems that you just crave the feeling itself, not the underlying reality of it, or the individual man who gave you the feeling. Women's susceptibility to being fooled makes us feel completely interchangeable What are you talking about it doesn't matter if we are experiencing those feelings truly. What does that even mean? This is why the PUA stuff works, the "speed hypnosis" of pressing a woman's emotional buttons by a complete stranger We don't mind you being addicted to that feeling you describe, we would just prefer that you limit your indulgence in it to legitimate drug dealers and not those hawking cotton candy as the good stuff. Now you are completely undermining what I have described, you either don't understand what I said or you simple don't want to understand it. The feeling of deep connection and sexual passion I am talking about is not some fleeting sense of ecstasy and thrill; some contrived pick up scheme that leads to nothing more than a quick fix. You missed the mark completely. There is nothing particularly engaging happening in a PUA scenario other than some cheeseball lines/tactics being used on a half whit with an appetite for free drinks/drugs and promiscuity. And as far as passion and men's ability to feel it, do you really want to line up all the historical male poets, musicians, authors, explorers, artists, zealots etc. and say the average guy doesn't have the capacity for passionate emotion that the average woman has? The difference is that men have historically focused their passion externally onto the "world," whereas women have focused their passion internally into the "earth." Perhaps some rebalancing of passionate focus on both sides of the fence is in order. Sure because the The Johnny Cashes and the Edgar Allan Poes of this world write about the rivers and trees literally. Love and the loss of love is what drives people's passion and creativity, not the desire for an eco-friendly future. Sorry.
edward-e Posted December 28, 2009 Posted December 28, 2009 im starting to think more than anything that people just end up getting hurt by someone and decide that they dont wanna get hurt that way again so they sleep around with women as a way to fill the void but not get too close to anyone. because in their mind casual sex is just casual and they dont have to get close....close=hurt in their minds i suppose...
meerkat stew Posted December 28, 2009 Posted December 28, 2009 What are you talking about it doesn't matter if we are experiencing those feelings truly. What does that even mean? You claimed that men hate the thought of deeply moving passion, a claim anyone who has ever visited a museum would likely have trouble agreeing with. I countered with the claim that what men actually hate is how easily women's feelings are manipulated, and that sometimes we wonder whether women care whether the feelings come from someplace real, or that it's enough that the feelings exist, regardless of the sincerity or legitimacy of their source. I have seen women exhibit the same deep, powerful emotions you describe, or at least they appear no different, upon viewing a dog food commercial or some other lesser stimulation. Now you are completely undermining what I have described, you either don't understand what I said or you simple don't want to understand it. The feeling of deep connection and sexual passion I am talking about is not some fleeting sense of ecstasy and thrill; some contrived pick up scheme that leads to nothing more than a quick fix. Many in the throes of seductive passion might disagree. The feelings are very "real" to them, as real as any they feel. If such feelings weren't so easy to mimic, these highly effective techniques for seducing women would not exist. You missed the mark completely. There is nothing particularly engaging happening in a PUA scenario other than some cheeseball lines/tactics being used on a half whit with an appetite for free drinks/drugs and promiscuity. Well, I'm no professor of PUA techniques, but it's evident you don't really understand that those techniques are for the most part short cuts to emotional responses in a woman that lead her to believe she has more passion for a man than she really does, not just cheezy pickup lines or scams. Fair enough on the halfwit club kid part, but many who use those techniques do so in other venues than clubs. Those techniques shouldn't work at all on any woman with middlin sense... yet they do. Love and the loss of love is what drives people's passion and creativity, not the desire for an eco-friendly future. Sorry. Religious fervor and ecstasy The desire to tame a hostile environment The thirst for truth The desire to create beauty are just a few of many motivations that "drive people's passion and creativity." It's only been in the last feminized century that we have been told that reality must be viewed through "love and loss of love" colored glasses, and that all other passion is somehow "lesser." Translated, your statement above really means "The passions that are historically important to women are the true, important ones, and the passions that are historically important to men are either invalid, or lesser subsets of legitimate passions, of which all are somehow based on love or its loss." Or am I being unfair?
Woggle Posted December 28, 2009 Posted December 28, 2009 I never said that men were sexually driven only. Men are perfectly capable of falling in love and commiting to a woman but she has to be worth it. Very few women are worth it so unless a man wants to live like a catholic priest he needs to go for casual sex with women who may or may not be loathsome people. Plus being a player helps a man grow some balls. By taking charge and controlling his relationships with women he gains some confidence and will never let a woman snatch his balls away again. This is why players who finally settle down tend to have the best marriages. When they marry they know it is the right one and she is great enough to make him turn in his player card while the nice guy just settles for any old woman that will marry him and she usually ends up making him miserable.
InspiredbyYou Posted December 29, 2009 Posted December 29, 2009 im starting to think more than anything that people just end up getting hurt by someone and decide that they dont wanna get hurt that way again so they sleep around with women as a way to fill the void but not get too close to anyone. because in their mind casual sex is just casual and they dont have to get close....close=hurt in their minds i suppose... I think you could be very right there! You claimed that men hate the thought of deeply moving passion, a claim anyone who has ever visited a museum would likely have trouble agreeing with. No I claimed that men hate the thought of women talking about experiencing deep passionate feelings, different thing. I countered with the claim that what men actually hate is how easily women's feelings are manipulated, and that sometimes we wonder whether women care whether the feelings come from someplace real, or that it's enough that the feelings exist, regardless of the sincerity or legitimacy of their source. I have seen women exhibit the same deep, powerful emotions you describe, or at least they appear no different, upon viewing a dog food commercial or some other lesser stimulation. I just don't think you can put a dimension on what people feel, you can assess a situation given different variables and facts but can you really determine how someone feels? You can only determine the when or if it is even present. It's like asking someone to tell you how you do you love someone/thing? Everyone knows love in a very individual ways. But I do keep reading time and time again, that a feeling of spark or that a strong feeling of attraction that is both an emotional and physiological response, cannot be true for XYZ. Says who? Time. Time is the only true factor that can determine this but not others. I hear what you are saying about mixed signals, but I do think that men tend to be a tad more cynical in this respect or perhaps women are endless romantics. I think I'd rather be the latter, I would rather feel any day than rationalize our emotions to smithereens. Many in the throes of seductive passion might disagree. The feelings are very "real" to them, as real as any they feel. If such feelings weren't so easy to mimic, these highly effective techniques for seducing women would not exist. They are not all that easy to mimic actually, you must fall hard quickly and often is all I can sum up because I can't relate? Well, I'm no professor of PUA techniques, but it's evident you don't really understand that those techniques are for the most part short cuts to emotional responses in a woman that lead her to believe she has more passion for a man than she really does, not just cheezy pickup lines or scams. Fair enough on the halfwit club kid part, but many who use those techniques do so in other venues than clubs. Those techniques shouldn't work at all on any woman with middlin sense... yet they do. Anytime you mention PUA it embodies, in my mind at least, a tactic that is not only unnatural but also conniving. I've seen displays of trying too hard vs genuine displays of affection/admiration and they are different things. In time you learn to differentiate two. Maybe age plays a role in this and of course experience. But that is why it is important to keep all these emotions in check until you can act on it and fully understand what is happening. I think that's the key. Control really. You don't need to quash your urges you just need to moderate them. Religious fervor and ecstasy The desire to tame a hostile environment The thirst for truth The desire to create beauty are just a few of many motivations that "drive people's passion and creativity." It's only been in the last feminized century that we have been told that reality must be viewed through "love and loss of love" colored glasses, and that all other passion is somehow "lesser." Translated, your statement above really means "The passions that are historically important to women are the true, important ones, and the passions that are historically important to men are either invalid, or lesser subsets of legitimate passions, of which all are somehow based on love or its loss." Or am I being unfair? You're probably right I am more than likely looking at it through my romantic female eyes! I wouldn't go as far as saying that men's drives are invalid just somewhat inferior in the grand scope of what love represents in life. Love for anything whether inanimate or human, ignites drive is more how I see it.
InspiredbyYou Posted December 29, 2009 Posted December 29, 2009 I never said that men were sexually driven only. Men are perfectly capable of falling in love and commiting to a woman but she has to be worth it. Very few women are worth it so unless a man wants to live like a catholic priest he needs to go for casual sex with women who may or may not be loathsome people. Well I'm sorry you have such low regard for yourself sexually that you would actually offer that to some woman who you deem as unworthy. In my books a person who is unworthy gets nothing from me. I do think of my sexuality as another component of what I have to share with someone of interest and I take pride in all aspects of my being. That may sound antiquated but to me that's just common sense.
Phateless Posted December 29, 2009 Posted December 29, 2009 the whole alpha vs beta thing i was saying that girls only went for the a-male a..hole thing & the nice guy betas never got any action. because girls don't really want a "nice guy", they just pretend that they do... etc ... Dude... You are so confused... Girls like guys who are SURE OF THEMSELVES. *******s are sure of themselves, while "nice guys" aren't. There is a sharp difference between a nice guy and a good guy. Girls like- confidence charisma charm social intelligence humor etc Girls DON'T like- neediness whininess insecurity hesitation over-accomodation self-deprecation etc The *******s get the girls because they are fun to be around, not because they're mean. Bro, you need sort your head out. It's the insecurity and lack of flirting skills that causes your trouble with women, not the fact that you are being nice to them, although being TOO nice makes you look desperate. *sigh* I can't explain all of this in one post. PM me and I can help more.
Phateless Posted December 29, 2009 Posted December 29, 2009 The PUA guidelines are a way of teaching men to be socially intelligent - that's it. Women read Cosmo, right? What's the difference?
edward-e Posted December 29, 2009 Posted December 29, 2009 im gunna agree with phateless. i understand there are a lot of nice guys who have a lot of the qualities women want, BUT since they arent as outgoing and fun, they never get a chance. A lot of women see you being so nice as a sign of desperation, that you are just willing to do whatever they want just to get with them. BEING a nice guy and being nice all the time are two completely different things. women would much rather wait two weeks and get one nice suprise like their favorite candy bar or flowers than a guy who does something new creative and sweet every night out of the week because it gets old....
Woggle Posted December 29, 2009 Posted December 29, 2009 Well I'm sorry you have such low regard for yourself sexually that you would actually offer that to some woman who you deem as unworthy. In my books a person who is unworthy gets nothing from me. I do think of my sexuality as another component of what I have to share with someone of interest and I take pride in all aspects of my being. That may sound antiquated but to me that's just common sense. I think very highly of myself and my very short lived but prolific player days gave me a self esteem I never knew I had.
meerkat stew Posted December 29, 2009 Posted December 29, 2009 the fact that most women have paper-thin personalities. You could look at it this way, or maybe more accurately, that as opposed to paper-thin personalities, most attractive women have thick, well-armored defense mechanisms that involve selectively revealing their often charming and witty personalities. Just like guys, a woman can go from wallflower to extremely funny and animated when they are in company they find interesting. Sometimes I feel bad for attractive women in that they are constantly barraged with hamhanded advances and constantly have to deflect guys they have no interest in who have become smitten with them at work, school, etc. for no rational reason other than their beauty and whatever traits the guy has concocted in his mind that she supposedly possesses. As weak as some men are about "pedestalizing" women before they even know them, women learn that to show wit or a cool personality indiscriminately can cause all kinds of problems with clinger guys who won't or can't take a hint. I don't envy women this predicament one bit.
Recommended Posts