I bet you ladies will "love" this one!

[InspiredbyYou]

 

I myself think the whole BETA vs ALPHA thing is idiotic.

 

The idiocy does not stop at men, I hate to admit, there are women out there who claim to be alphas too!

 

 

A lot of the time women convince themselves that the rule doesn't apply to them is because they do exactly what you point out, attribute fake positive qualities to their boyfriends, meanwhile attributing fake negative qualities to all the guys who are ew too short, ew have red hair, ew are asian, ew are this or that. Women and dumb men are guilty of this . The average to smart man generally will admit if their girlfriend is dumb, and openly state that they are dating her because she is hot (in private).

 

What rule doesn't apply to us? Please explain.

 

So let me get this straight. A woman who rules out men she does not like physically is attributing fake qualities to them but a guy who goes out with the hot doorknob is honest by virtue of the fact that he admits to dating her for her bedroom abilities? WTF?!?!

So being honest is admitting why you date someone?

I think most women who go for the tall successful guys are being honest about the fact that they likes him for those very qualities. How is that different from the man example you gave!?!?

[skydiveaddict]

 

 

 

I think most women who go for the tall successful guys are being honest about the fact that they likes him for those very qualities. How is that different from the man example you gave!?!?

 

 

 

 

 

it's not now you've got it!

[InspiredbyYou]

it's not now you've got it!

 

 

sorry? didn't get that....?

[meerkat stew]

Well, we have all heard the most "uncool" "unfunny" women on earth described as cool and funny.... when they also happen to be hot.

 

We have also heard the most maniacal, ur-bitch behavior described as "cute" or "quirky".... when they also happen to be hot.

 

Men see women doing this and vice versa, and it makes for a distrusting "speak with forked tongue" apprehension when dealing with the opposite sex.

 

This works in a weird reverse too. Men see women talking about how they find a guy is "not good looking in a traditional way," then when they meet him he's a 6'3 Jim Caviezel looking dude as opposed to a 6'3 George Clooney looking dude. It's as if she is trying to -FOOL HERSELF- that the hotness is not what draws her in with all the poor mouthing "not traditionally good looking" BS. Another good one women do in this respect is the "I didn't think he was all that good looking at first, he just grew on me," and then you meet the guy and he looks like Jake Gyllenhaal. SURE.

 

Men do it too, "She's so cute" when she gets so drunk she pees on the couch or hurls a coffee mug, or worst of all ruins the party because she has to go to the ER. If the girl weighed 210 though? "Cute" becomes "getthatpigthef-OUTOFHERE"

[AD1980]

Of course its all about looks to get your foot in the door with the opposite sex..

 

All this beta /alpha stuff or have confidence and women or men will like you stuff is bs

 

Bottom line is as far as having sucess with the oppsoite sex its all about looks,all the confidence in the world wont make somebody magically attracted to you

 

We worship and put really good looking people on pedestals even if they have no other qualities its amazing..

[skydiveaddict]

sorry? didn't get that....?

 

 

 

 

 

i'm saying there is no difference. girls are attracted to tall, good looking men just like men are are attracted to ' hot" women

[skydiveaddict]

Of course its all about looks to get your foot in the door with the opposite sex..

 

All this beta /alpha stuff or have confidence and women or men will like you stuff is bs

 

Bottom line is as far as having sucess with the oppsoite sex its all about looks,all the confidence in the world wont make somebody magically attracted to you

 

We worship and put really good looking people on pedestals even if they have no other qualities its amazing..

 

 

 

 

 

the only thing i would disagree about is that alpha's are good looking by nature , betas tend not to be so in the end i guess we basically agree. it's just a matter of semantics i suppose

[InspiredbyYou]

Well, we have all heard the most "uncool" "unfunny" women on earth described as cool and funny.... when they also happen to be hot.

 

Maybe men do this with other men but they do not make comments like this to women, because they know we will call their bluff. If not outwardly we will know the score. So really what does that tell you, men are FAR more superficial than women when it comes to looks alone. I often see very gorgeous women with average to good looking guys. Not the other way around so much.

 

I do know that we need to have physical and sexual attraction in order for any romantic door to open but what men fail to see in women is that women are a lot more forgiving than their male counterparts. And no a lot of times the men women say grew on them did not look like Jake Gyllenhal.

 

As a matter of fact it's not even about looking like Jake or Brad Pitt and this is where men are far more one dimensional than women because what if you don't like those kinds of looks? Then it would technically be someone who grew on you. It is about what each individual finds personally attractive.

 

I for one do not see what the point of a man being over 6ft is? I would not turn down a guy on height alone because he is over 6ft but it is not a big deal for me. I mean there are millions of very hot men in the 5,9' to 6ft range and I am 5'8 an love my heels, so not exactly short and I find that anything over 6ft for men is sort of a waste of height. Someone over 6'2 is freakishly tall in my opinion. A lot of women at 5'1 would kill for a guy 6'3 so sure some women just attribute meaningless prerequisites to the man's appearance in order for attraction to be there.

 

But I also find the people who look for the most physical attributes that conform to some societal norm are also looking for acceptance to fit in to society. They haven't found their inner strength yet and rely solely on the praise and acceptance of others to feel secure in their own skin. Now don't get me wrong we all have our triggers but I have always been of the mind of focusing on what I don't want as opposed to what I think I do want. When it comes to romance sometimes you just don't know what you don't know.

[meerkat stew]

The other part is volume of approaches. You can be a perfect natural in the looks department, but if you never leave your house, no one's gonna know it. For guys at least, you have to figure out where the women are you want to date, go there and approach them.

 

So to modify slightly. Look good + Get out of the house and to the right place = success.

 

And to those who say, well what if Clooney/Angelina is dull and can't make conversation? No worries, the "pedestalizing" effects of their beauty will elevate them into Socratic dialogue land.

 

Case in point, celebrities expounding on political issues. Now regardless of where you lean politically, try this experiment. Get some choice Alec Baldwin or George Clooney screeds on politics off the net. Print those out in text, and read them without any video (try to suffer as little IQ point leakage/brain damage as possible doing this). Then watch the video of them speaking the same lines and try to claim that their looks don't elevate the vapid inconsistencies coming out of their mouths into -almost- legitimate points.

[AD1980]

the only thing i would disagree about is that alpha's are good looking by nature , betas tend not to be so in the end i guess we basically agree. it's just a matter of semantics i suppose

 

I dont know,maybe their "alpha" because they have confidecne from being fawned over by women all their lives and real;ze if a women doesnt like that attitude he can easily get another one where a ugly dude who finally gets a women realizes if she leaves it maybe years for him to get another oen so he does whatever it takes to keep he..

 

But i think labels are worthless,if the guys hot enough the girl isnt gonna stand there and say this guy isn "alpha" enough

[skydiveaddict]

sorry? didn't get that....?

 

 

 

i meant to say, now you've got it. that's exactly right

[skydiveaddict]

I dont know,maybe their "alpha" because they have confidecne from being fawned over by women all their lives and real;ze if a women doesnt like that attitude he can easily get another one where a ugly dude who finally gets a women realizes if she leaves it maybe years for him to get another oen so he does whatever it takes to keep he..

 

But i think labels are worthless,if the guys hot enough the girl isnt gonna stand there and say this guy isn "alpha" enough

 

 

 

 

 

good points

[InspiredbyYou]

i meant to say, now you've got it. that's exactly right

 

 

ok so if it was the same thing then what's the point of the comparison then?

[skydiveaddict]

ok so if it was the same thing then what's the point of the comparison then?

 

 

 

 

 

cause women say they want a "sweet sensive guy", when in fact they dont. men usually are looking for a "hot chick" just to get laid. sweet, sensitive or otherwise, it doesnt matter

[skydiveaddict]

i'm just saying that contrary to popular myth, men are more honest about what they (we) want than women are

[InspiredbyYou]

cause women say they want a "sweet sensive guy", when in fact they dont

 

 

women DO want sweet sensitive guys, that they are also sexually attracted to and intellectually challenged by. They do exist, I am with one and have always been with these types of guys.

 

 

men usually are looking for a "hot chick" just to get laid. sweet, sensitive or otherwise, it doesnt matter

 

exactly and that is pretty much all that some men look for and they stumble into relationships by "accident" with the hot chick who gave great head but he refuses to settle down with because deep down he knows there is better out there.

Then he goes out and lets his pecker pick again and the cycle begins once again. Or worse yet he does settle down with her only to find the true love of his life later in life.

 

Look up the thread about human dolls, sure those men are pathologically inclined but the basis of their reasoning is not that far off from how men typically think. Some men evolve out of this one dimension others not so much.

[InspiredbyYou]

i'm just saying that contrary to popular myth, men are more honest about what they (we) want than women are

 

 

noooooo actually we are pretty honest, we want the whole package and some guys can't seem to comprehend this. Some men settle for a lot less. Maybe it's time to up the ante. Just sayin'.....

[meerkat stew]

Maybe men do this with other men but they do not make comments like this to women, because they know we will call their bluff.

 

Well more likely it's because we know that women are gonna shoot each other down no matter what the truth is about the new woman in question

 

Could have inserted men there. So many's the time I'm told by a smitten female acquaintance some dude is "a genius, with an IQ of 160," and "witty." Meet him, and he turns out to be very good looking, very obviously -not- intelligent, and with a sense of humor that consists entirely of mimicking TV characters or even worse, just repeating Family Guy or South Park lines. (yeah, man, giggedy giggedy to you too!)... but he's SO HOT!

 

If not outwardly we will know the score. So really what does that tell you, men are FAR more superficial than women when it comes to looks alone. I often see very gorgeous women with average to good looking guys. Not the other way around so much.

 

You sure you wanna go there with all the gold-digga hate around here lately? Walk out in the parking lot and see what kind of car the valet pulls up, and what kind of garage that car eventually pulls into. Nah, don't want to go there after all, do you?

 

Moreover, there is a very wide and actually studied gap between how women and men rate the opposite sex. Women consistently rate much more than 50% of men below the 50th percentile in looks, and men rate considerably more than 50% of women above the 50th percentile in looks. Not only are women equal to men in "looks-bias" vapidity, women are tougher judges to boot.

 

but what men fail to see in women is that women are a lot more forgiving than their male counterparts.

 

No, just not the case. Not in my experience, and not as many studies are finding now. A recent study cited here on female/male response to online dating profile pics pretty much bears out the truth that astute people already know. Women are much harsher judges of beauty than men. Was on OK CUPID, not gonna dig it out.

 

Moreover, she may date a man she considers beneath her in attractiveness, just not for long. Women will bide time with placeholders while continuing to shop for upgrades much moreso than men. This is why women do about 75-80% of the dumping in relationships.

 

As a matter of fact it's not even about looking like Jake or Brad Pitt and this is where men are far more one dimensional than women because what if you don't like those kinds of looks? Then it would technically be someone who grew on you. It is about what each individual finds personally attractive.

 

Nah, it's about the fat of the bell curve. 70% of the women out there would accept a date with Brad, Jake etc. on looks alone, even if they weren't celebs, and you well know it. You may like 300 pound fat men with zits and a massive overbite, but if so, you are just a kinky outlier, not representative of the overall "market."

 

But I also find the people who look for the most physical attributes that conform to some societal norm are also looking for acceptance to fit in to society. They haven't found their inner strength yet and rely solely on the praise and acceptance of others to feel secure in their own skin. Now don't get me wrong we all have our triggers but I have always been of the mind of focusing on what I don't want as opposed to what I think I do want. When it comes to romance sometimes you just don't know what you don't know.

 

It's not "looking for" anything, it just happens due to deep-seated mating cues. Sure, there are "arm-candy" seekers, admittedly, but their "candy" usually hits the fat of the bellcurve of the opposite sex right in the wheelhouse.

 

Agree 100% about the inner strength, but looks will carry you right up to that threshhold, and it's so much easier to find inner strength from a position of strength with several options to learn through than it is from a position of weakness.

 

Don't ascribe too much to the topic. Is "all about looks" a great way to approach the initial stages of attraction? Absolutely... the best way. Is it the best way to navigate a relationship? Hell no. It opens the door, nothing more.

[SoulSearch_CO]

*sigh* For the LAST time - you CAN be Alpha and be nice. The two are not mutually exclusive. The guy I'm dating is a total Alpha, but also nice. Eat that.

[meerkat stew]

exactly and that is pretty much all that some men look for and they stumble into relationships by "accident" with the hot chick who gave great head but he refuses to settle down with because deep down he knows there is better out there.

Then he goes out and lets his pecker pick again and the cycle begins once again. Or worse yet he does

 

Disagree with both you and skydiver on this. That men are sex enslaved dogs in heat just looking for leg is a horrendous (but convenient) sexist stereotype that needs to GO AWAY. It's not that men just want sex but ending up getting trapped into these icky relationship thingies somehow, but that men have to display for sex constantly, and here's the real important part HAVE NO CONTROL WHATSOEVER OVER WHICH OF THEIR ADVANCES WILL LEAD TO SEX AND WHICH WILL NOT. This essential gender difference, like the intricacies of child-bearing, is so foreign in relation to the experience of the opposite sex that to hear a woman try to describe why men are the way they are in how they pursue sex is akin to a man trying to describe how it feels to carry a child to term. Of course were we to opine on child bearing, the shrill voices shouting us down legitimately would be tumultuous indeed. We don't know what it's like. OTOH, women expect to opine freely on what it's like to be a man in sexual pursuit and attraction mode despite the fact that they can never ever know what it's really like. We let them prattle on about things like this because at least it's not nagging or complaining.

 

Sexually, women are equipped with a magic rifle that almost never misses when seeking sex. Men are equipped with a rusty old shotgun that almost never hits when seeking sex, the pellets fly out crooked, who the hell knows where they are going. Women can conserve their bullets, after all almost all of them hit bullseye. Men have to keep shooting and shooting in hopes of bagging anything at all, and never know when they will hit the target.

 

I posit that most men want a monogamous relationship as much as women, moreover that after a ONS, more often than not it's THE MAN wanting to continue things. PUAs and those of that attitude, are, I claim, a very small minority of guys. Most men drawn to PUA culture JUST WANT A GIRLFRIEND, any GF, to love them and not **** on them.

[cognac]

i have never heard someone sum up male-female relationships as perfect as Meerkat. Props to you, every one of your post I agree with 100% with.

 

You can tell Meerkat, unlike some guys here, is writing with the cold hard facts, rather than raw emotional bitterness (like many , including myself, sometimes do). HE is nuking all the BS people here spout.

[MeganDoll]

Of course womne look for upgrades while datign but its not something we do consciosuly we were wired to find the best potenntial geens for our children

 

If i see some tall amazingly handsome man who catches my eye and intrigues me as long as im not married why not try to create the best offspring possible if i conenct with this guy??

[skydiveaddict]

Sexually, women are equipped with a magic rifle that almost never misses when seeking sex. Men are equipped with a rusty old shotgun that almost never hits when seeking sex, the pellets fly out crooked, who the hell knows where they are going. Women can conserve their bullets, after all almost all of them hit bullseye. Men have to keep shooting and shooting in hopes of bagging anything at all, and never know when they will hit the target.

 

 

 

 

 

exactly ! an attractive woman can pick and choose any guy she wants. she also knows full well that most men cant. but still the woman Will blame the guy rather than admit the truth. i dont mind the disparity so much as the dishonesty

[InspiredbyYou]

Well more likely it's because we know that women are gonna shoot each other down no matter what the truth is about the new woman in question

 

true, men do that too.

 

Could have inserted men there. So many's the time I'm told by a smitten female acquaintance some dude is "a genius, with an IQ of 160," and "witty." Meet him, and he turns out to be very good looking, very obviously -not- intelligent, and with a sense of humor that consists entirely of mimicking TV characters or even worse, just repeating Family Guy or South Park lines. (yeah, man, giggedy giggedy to you too!)... but he's SO HOT!

I am not denying that when we are excited about someone or sexually turned on by someone we find exciting, we do tend to see a lot that isn't there and miss red flags that are there. To a certain degree. The difference is that the person who is mature an has their priorities straight will listen to the warning signs as opposed to proceeding solely on the exterior bells and whistles.

 

 

You sure you wanna go there with all the gold-digga hate around here lately? Walk out in the parking lot and see what kind of car the valet pulls up, and what kind of garage that car eventually pulls into. Nah, don't want to go there after all, do you?

Oh so now women who go out with men who are slightly less attractive than them it's because the guy is smitten rich? C'mon I am not talking about glaring physical differences I am talking about a woman who is slightly more attractive than the man, in more than one way. I don't see that as much unless the guys is exceptionally good looking, I have seen more exceptionally good looking guys withe more average good looking girls than above average good looking guys with average girls. Men tend to date up in almost all instances, I know I am a girl...

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nah, it's about the fat of the bell curve. 70% of the women out there would accept a date with Brad, Jake etc. on looks alone, even if they weren't celebs, and you well know it. You may like 300 pound fat men with zits and a massive overbite, but if so, you are just a kinky outlier, not representative of the overall "market."

Ok you have this uncanny tendency to take an example sited and to twist it to the umpteenth degree to prove a point. I am not talking about people with extreme fetishes. Nor am I talking about people who are into niche appeals, I said I see men with women who are gorgeous while they are good looking. Not a beauty and beast scenario, clearly if the picture |don't look right, it ain't right"!

I respect that you sited a sample poll sited by OKCupid, but really I would not site what a bunch of lonely soles on a dating site deem as the norm when they are just victims of a fantasy medium to begin with. If you are going to give random people on the street the hypothetical option of being poor vs being rich, I too can come up with an informal poll that states that most people prefer being rich to poor. Reality is what you see on the streets, when you look around you surely you don't just see perfectly matched couples all around you. Surely you don't no matter where you live in the world, THAT'S reality. What people yearn for online is not, hence their perpetual single status and eternal quest for "happiness"

 

 

 

 

Agree 100% about the inner strength, but looks will carry you right up to that threshhold, and it's so much easier to find inner strength from a position of strength with several options to learn through than it is from a position of weakness.

Well see and that is my point right there, we tend to pick partners in based on the deficiencies we feel be have to compensate for what we are lacking that is what you can attribute a lot of the mismatched couples that we see on the streets. What we cannot see is what is perfectly a good pairing if you had insight into the dynamics of each and every couple that walks the streets that stands out for us.

But as an overall I tend to see more good looking women with men who are not equally matched than the other way around. I am not talking about extremism, just not perfectly matched solely from and aesthetic stand point. I think that speaks volumes of what men seek vs what women seek.

 

 

Don't ascribe too much to the topic. Is "all about looks" a great way to approach the initial stages of attraction? Absolutely... the best way. Is it the best way to navigate a relationship? Hell no. It opens the door, nothing more.

Without initial attraction there is not open door to romance, THAT we can definitely agree on. Edited December 28, 2009 by InspiredbyYou

[AD1980]

I dont think theryes allot more relationships where the women is more attractive then the guy

 

I think women feel that way becasue they have a smaller view of whats attractive then Men do..