Nice doormat vs. Assertive man vs. Confident jerk (examples)

[cognac]

You're out on a date and she gets drunk and starts to flirt with other guys[/Quote]

Nice: Says nothing, makes sure she gets home safe, hopes she changes and becomes nice too.

Assertive: Just makes sure she gets home safe, then finds someone who adores him.

Jerk: Mocks her or hurts her in any way, doesn't care what happens to her[/Quote]I don't get it. How does not caring what happens to her make you a jerk? When a woman flirts with other guys RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU (in any situation, but especially in front of you) drunk or not, she is essentially trying to trade you in and giving up her right to your protection.

 

Why should we care what happens to her, when she doesn't care what happens to us? If you want gender equality you cant have your cake and eat it too. It's not even about men and women, it's about the golden rule.

[elaina]

I don't get it. How does not caring what happens to her make you a jerk? When a woman flirts with other guys RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU (in any situation, but especially in front of you) drunk or not, she is essentially trying to trade you in and giving up her right to your protection.

 

Why should we care what happens to her, when she doesn't care what happens to us? If you want gender equality you cant have your cake and eat it too. It's not even about men and women, it's about the golden rule.

 

My idea of a jerk is someone who doesn't care about others. If a man asks a woman out on a date, hopefully he cares enough about her to make sure she gets home safely, yeah? No matter what she does? That doesn't mean he has to make sure she's all happy and hunkydory.. just that she is safe.

 

Safety is just something that everybody is entitled to have, regardless of if that person who is acting like a jerk (because a girl flirting with others seems to me like a jerk too, right?) A drunk girl is many times an easy target for guys who don't care one bit for her, and didn't take on the responsibility of a date in the first place, like the one who brought her did... unless of course they just met up there, but safety should always be a priority.

 

For example, firemen don't make sure that the woman or man they rescue is not a jerk, right? They just rescue.

 

 

What is your idea of a jerk?

[threebyfate]

Safety is just something that everybody is entitled to have, regardless of if that person who is acting like a jerk (because a girl flirting with others seems to me like a jerk too, right?) A drunk girl is many times an easy target for guys who don't care one bit for her, and didn't take on the responsibility of a date in the first place, like the one who brought her did... unless of course they just met up there, but safety should always be a priority.

I agree that safety is tantamount. But I do have a problem with women who get wasted, when they're not with someone who they can trust, particularly if she knows she gets randy or out-of-control, when drunk. Each person is responsible for their own behaviours.

[elaina]

I agree that safety is tantamount. But I do have a problem with women who get wasted, when they're not with someone who they can trust, particularly if she knows she gets randy or out-of-control, when drunk. Each person is responsible for their own behaviours.

 

True. If a girl knows she gets drunk and gets wasted and doesn't have a friend to take care of her, I would wonder why she didn't think of that.

 

And yeah Cognag is right about woman who get drunk and are intentionally flirting in front of her date...I would wonder though why would she do that?

 

I've been drunk before, but when I am drunk I got all mooshy with the man I adore... not with others. I could care less what the others thought at the time, since my inhibitions were mostly gone.

[threebyfate]

You're going out with a girl and have a sexual need that isn't being met. How might you rectify the situation?

• A self-designated nice guy wouldn't be in this position, since he's too afraid to ask women out.
  
• An assertive man will ensure that the woman knows he's interested but will have the savvy to also know when the time is right, by reading her green light.
  
• A jerk just uses women, looking for the low self-esteem woman who he can hit and quit.
  

A girl you like calls you up and asks if you can help her study for a class.

• A self-designated nice guy will blow her off, since he's bitter about the friendzone and won't help any girl out.
  
• An assertive guy will help his friends and romantic partners.
  
• A jerk will blow her off, since he's bitter about the friendzone and won't help any girl out unless he gets laid for his efforts.
  

A girl you like calls you up and asks for a ride to go see a guy.

• A self-designated nice guy won't be in this position since women find him creepy, hence want nothing to do with him.
  
• An assertive guy will turn her down, if he's interested in her, not bothering to make busy excuses. For that matter, he wouldn't be in this position since he would have made his interest already known.
  
• A jerk won't be in this position since women find him creepy, hence want nothing to do with him.
  

[sally4sara]

Ahahahahhaha , I'm definitely the jerk. The jerk doesn't even sound that bad, he just believes in justice. I think you have an incorrect definition of a jerk. Jerks are people who are mean or cruel with no reason, but if a woman screws you over or is trying to, you have every right to return the favor. Women have a lot of power (the power of the pussy), when they abuse it they should be held accountable.

 

Think about it. Someone acts callous towards you, you don't waste more time on them figuring out how to act like they do to "show them". You just don't go out with them anymore. That IS holding them accountable, only without adopting their behaviors. The last person I knew who was this interested in getting back at someone, it was one of my friends troubled 7 year old son.

Personally, if I were out with someone and they started hitting on everyone around us, I'd wonder who slipped what into their drink when we were not looking. Barring that, I'd not go out with them again. If that is just how they act when they go out, "justice" will arrive during another of their reckless nights without me fueling it on and without me knowing I made it happen.

An assertive, confident person is just going to be confident they deserve better treatment and assert that believe by not bothering with someone who treats them poorly. A doormat sticks around for more poor treatment. But to be so upset by it you feel compelled to seek revenge is to secretly believe they lowered you value with their action. They didn't, their action lowered them and if you were a confident person that would be obvious to you.

[alphamale]

is it just me or is the jerk spending a lot of time in jail?

[LucreziaBorgia]

Women have a lot of power (the power of the pussy)

 

Well, it is like my (mostly a jerk) alter-ego says on another board: She may have the power of the pussy, but you have the power to validate or reject it.

 

I've been known to be quite the jerk in my time as well.

[cognac]

Think about it. Someone acts callous towards you, you don't waste more time on them figuring out how to act like they do to "show them". You just don't go out with them anymore. That IS holding them accountable, only without adopting their behaviors. The last person I knew who was this interested in getting back at someone, it was one of my friends troubled 7 year old son.

Personally, if I were out with someone and they started hitting on everyone around us, I'd wonder who slipped what into their drink when we were not looking. Barring that, I'd not go out with them again. If that is just how they act when they go out, "justice" will arrive during another of their reckless nights without me fueling it on and without me knowing I made it happen.

An assertive, confident person is just going to be confident they deserve better treatment and assert that believe by not bothering with someone who treats them poorly. A doormat sticks around for more poor treatment. But to be so upset by it you feel compelled to seek revenge is to secretly believe they lowered you value with their action. They didn't, their action lowered them and if you were a confident person that would be obvious to you.

 

I doubt you as a woman have ever been in this boat so I don't think you know what it feels like.

 

I find the posts saying that the "assertive guy" simply walks away with his head held high and finds another woman who will love him unconditionally.

 

Easier said than done.

 

Nothing is more frustrating and angering than hitting it off with a girl, having so much in common, getting along great, investing a lot of emotion, money, and time to get to know her, only for her to one day start flirting with another guy because he's "HOT".

 

Do I get my emotion, time, and money back? No. Is it every day one finds girls that have a lot in common with, that (seem) to like us, etc? Not for me. So I am rightfully angry when a woman throws it all away because she is on some level, a dirty, disrespectful whore. And it's months (sometimes years) before I find another girl who I am attracted to that is attracted to me back.

 

I wonder if you would tell a victim of assault to just walk away with their head high, and find people who won't assault them. It's not justice, and it won't bring the victim any closure. Why should women who waste my time, money, and hurt my feelings be treated any different? Not saying I would do anything too brash, but I do reserve the right to leave the woman there and not give a **** if she gets home alive or not.

[sally4sara]

I doubt you as a woman have ever been in this boat so I don't think you know what it feels like.

 

I find the posts saying that the "assertive guy" simply walks away with his head held high and finds another woman who will love him unconditionally.

 

Easier said than done.

 

Nothing is more frustrating and angering than hitting it off with a girl, having so much in common, getting along great, investing a lot of emotion, money, and time to get to know her, only for her to one day start flirting with another guy because he's "HOT".

 

Do I get my emotion, time, and money back? No. Is it every day one finds girls that have a lot in common with, that (seem) to like us, etc? Not for me. So I am rightfully angry when a woman throws it all away because she is on some level, a dirty, disrespectful whore. And it's months (sometimes years) before I find another girl who I am attracted to that is attracted to me back.

 

I wonder if you would tell a victim of assault to just walk away with their head high, and find people who won't assault them. It's not justice, and it won't bring the victim any closure. Why should women who waste my time, money, and hurt my feelings be treated any different? Not saying I would do anything too brash, but I do reserve the right to leave the woman there and not give a **** if she gets home alive or not.

 

You make too many assumptions. I've been assaulted and I"ve had my heart broken and disappointed. I am not confused about the difference.

When you spend your emotion/time/money you get that moment of enjoyment out of it, not a contract on their behavior always being what you would have it be forever. If you've ever heard the saying "you get out what you put in" you might want to take it literally. People are not potential pay offs in a business sense.

[Vasto_Lorde]

I think the OP is conflating being nice and being a doormat. These two labels are not necessarily one and the same. There are some people who are geniunly nice and laid back but not pushovers. Then you have the other category of people who are pushovers because they need something. It could be attention, sex, love etc. Those are the doormats. Now some doormats could be nice but that's a smaller slice of the pie.

 

I wonder when someone will create a thread talking about guys and girls who are nice but quite apathetic or as I like to refer to them as Apathy man. I got that term from this hilarious video on YouTube.

[Woggle]

I have always prefered to let the universe dish it's own justice to the women who have done me wrong and it has every time. Karme has chewed my ex up and spit her out and I did not have to do a thing. I alternate between feeling sympathy for her and sometimes gloating about the mess she has made of life. The best revenge is thriving without them in your life because some women truly do resent it when you don't end up like Bill Dauterive from King of the Hill. It kills them to see you doing well without them.

[Vasto_Lorde]

I have always prefered to let the universe dish it's own justice to the women who have done me wrong and it has every time. Karme has chewed my ex up and spit her out and I did not have to do a thing. I alternate between feeling sympathy for her and sometimes gloating about the mess she has made of life. The best revenge is thriving without them in your life because some women truly do resent it when you don't end up like Bill Dauterive from King of the Hill. It kills them to see you doing well without them.

Wow! Tell us how you truly feel Woggle.

[cognac]

You make too many assumptions. I've been assaulted and I"ve had my heart broken and disappointed. I am not confused about the difference.

When you spend your emotion/time/money you get that moment of enjoyment out of it, not a contract on their behavior always being what you would have it be forever. If you've ever heard the saying "you get out what you put in" you might want to take it literally. People are not potential pay offs in a business sense.

 

 

Well we have two very different points of view then.

 

When I invest myself in a woman I expect the same in return. If she doesn't feel the same way, true, it's her right to leave. But common courtesy would tell you to do this BEFORE I start spending time and energy I could be enjoying doing something else, with you.

 

If I'm with a woman and she starts eyeballing or flirting with other guys simply because they are better looking than me, I have the right to leave and let her find her own way home. That doesn't make me a jerk, it just makes me a man with dignity. If I'm with a woman I expect to be the center of her sexual/romantic attention period, if not, don't waste my goddamn time and money I could be spending with people who actually care about me (like my male friends or my family).

 

Women in my experience want their gender double standards while keeping some aspects of "Sexual liberation". They want to have relationships with loving, semi-good looking, good personality, and overall stellar men, while having one night stands with the 6'2 muscleman ex con in the bar bathroom. You know it's true.

Edited December 28, 2009 by cognac

[sally4sara]

Well we have two very different points of view then.

 

When I invest myself in a woman I expect the same in return. If she doesn't feel the same way, true, it's her right to leave. But common courtesy would tell you to do this BEFORE I start spending time and energy I could be enjoying doing something else, with you.

 

If I'm with a woman and she starts eyeballing or flirting with other guys simply because they are better looking than me, I have the right to leave and let her find her own way home. That doesn't make me a jerk, it just makes me a man with dignity. If I'm with a woman I expect to be the center of her sexual/romantic attention period, if not, don't waste my goddamn time and money I could be spending with people who actually care about me (like my male friends or my family).

 

Women in my experience want their gender double standards while keeping some aspects of "Sexual liberation". They want to have relationships with loving, semi-good looking, good personality, and overall stellar men, while having one night stands with the 6'2 muscleman ex con in the bar bathroom. You know it's true.

 

It may be true about some people but I know it isn't true just about women. Stop assuming what I know or think.

And if you expect some pay off for your monetary expenses - don't spend a bunch of money. Your date is not your child and you owe them nothing but what you can freely give of yourself. If you can only be happy about your actions IF, then those actions are going to lead to disappointment. We each really have very little control over what others will do so it is best to focus on things we do have control over - ourselves.

And yeah, if you want to let someone find their own way home it is your right. Earlier though, when you commented on what a jerk would do in those situations. You said you would do what the jerk would do and what people were saying the jerk would was more involved than simply walking away.

 

These are all examples that are not simply walking away and letting her find her own way home and the one RIGHT BEFORE you post say that is what you would do is the top one - the most vengeful one:

 

Jerk: Mocks her or hurts her in any way, doesn't care what happens to her

Jerk: "ya know, i never really noticed before how big your a.. is"

Jerk: Hey ---- get your a--- over here

Jerk: Pulls her aside and erupts at her for her behavior, maybe even calling her some names.

[Leonard]

It may be true about some people but I know it isn't true just about women. Stop assuming what I know or think.

And if you expect some pay off for your monetary expenses - don't spend a bunch of money. Your date is not your child and you owe them nothing but what you can freely give of yourself. If you can only be happy about your actions IF, then those actions are going to lead to disappointment. We each really have very little control over what others will do so it is best to focus on things we do have control over - ourselves.

And yeah, if you want to let someone find their own way home it is your right. Earlier though, when you commented on what a jerk would do in those situations. You said you would do what the jerk would do and what people were saying the jerk would was more involved than simply walking away.

 

These are all examples that are not simply walking away and letting her find her own way home and the one RIGHT BEFORE you post say that is what you would do is the top one - the most vengeful one:

 

Jerk: Mocks her or hurts her in any way, doesn't care what happens to her

Jerk: "ya know, i never really noticed before how big your a.. is"

Jerk: Hey ---- get your a--- over here

Jerk: Pulls her aside and erupts at her for her behavior, maybe even calling her some names.

 

While I know what you're trying to say and trying to defend the fact that not all women are like that, I am slightly inclined to believe Cognac's reasoning. Solely because I've seen my friends get treated this way really badly by women.

There was one time when I saw one of my girl friends get really expensive flowers from her boyfriend who travelled 50+ km to get them to her on her birthday. Given I didn't really know her boyfriend that well, I quietly went up to him anyway and told him he was an idiot to put so much effort into a relationship. True enough, she cheated on him with another good friend of mine a month later and I never saw him again.

 

I suppose I'm lucky I never have to experience this unfairness from women because I blow them off early the moment I feel I have to commit something to them. From what I observe from the people around me, it tells me that I've been doing the right thing so far and it allows me to avoid the mistakes they make when I live my life.

Edited December 28, 2009 by Leonard

[sally4sara]

While I know what you're trying to say and trying to defend the fact that not all women are like that, I am slightly inclined to believe Cognac's reasoning. Solely because I've seen my friends get treated this way really badly by women.

There was one time when I saw one of my girl friends get really expensive flowers from her boyfriend who travelled 50+ km to get them to her on her birthday. Given I didn't really know her boyfriend that well, I quietly went up to him anyway and told him he was an idiot to put so much effort into a relationship. True enough, she cheated on him with another good friend of mine a month later and I never saw him again.

 

I suppose I'm lucky I never have to experience this unfairness from women because I blow them off early the moment I feel I have to commit something to them. From what I observe from the people around me, it tells me that I've been doing the right thing so far and it allows me to avoid the mistakes they make when I live my life.

 

Reading comprehension......

 

Nothing you have shared with this story has anything much to do with what I was trying to get across to cognac. A triflin person is a triflin person and they will find a way to be triflin no matter if you're nice or not. It has nothing to do with being male or female. Even if you want to say it is women who treat men badly when they are too nice - well what about how some men think a woman is trash when she is nice enough to have sex with them? They say it is because she was too eagar to please even if she just wanted them to like her more. Well a guy whois too eagar and blows all his money in the hope the girl will like him more is the same as the woman who gave up sex to easily. Cognac is now whining about women who put him in the money/slut catagory. Spending money and expecting it to count for something with the girl makes him the slut in the scenario.

What I am trying to get across with my post is the more your actions happen BECAUSE of SOMEONE else's actions, the less you are in control of yourself. The less in control of yourself you are, the less people can respect and value you.

[cognac]

It may be true about some people but I know it isn't true just about women. Stop assuming what I know or think.

And if you expect some pay off for your monetary expenses - don't spend a bunch of money. Your date is not your child and you owe them nothing but what you can freely give of yourself. If you can only be happy about your actions IF, then those actions are going to lead to disappointment. We each really have very little control over what others will do so it is best to focus on things we do have control over - ourselves.

And yeah, if you want to let someone find their own way home it is your right. Earlier though, when you commented on what a jerk would do in those situations. You said you would do what the jerk would do and what people were saying the jerk would was more involved than simply walking away.

 

These are all examples that are not simply walking away and letting her find her own way home and the one RIGHT BEFORE you post say that is what you would do is the top one - the most vengeful one:

 

Jerk: Mocks her or hurts her in any way, doesn't care what happens to her

Jerk: "ya know, i never really noticed before how big your a.. is"

Jerk: Hey ---- get your a--- over here

Jerk: Pulls her aside and erupts at her for her behavior, maybe even calling her some names.

 

Yeah I would probably do all that stuff too before leaving. Might as well go out with a bang. Why should :I care about making her feel bad when she clearly doesn't care about my feelings.

 

In fact I never understood this. Women today are as vulgar, cruel, or more than men, yet we men are supposed to treat them like they're ladies who actually deserve special treatment and sugarcoating. Being treated like a lady is a privilege you should earn, not an entitlement. I would hold nothing back from a slut who flirts with other guys in front of me, except physical violence.

[sally4sara]

Yeah I would probably do all that stuff too before leaving. Might as well go out with a bang. Why should :I care about making her feel bad when she clearly doesn't care about my feelings.

 

In fact I never understood this. Women today are as vulgar, cruel, or more than men, yet we men are supposed to treat them like they're ladies who actually deserve special treatment and sugarcoating. Being treated like a lady is a privilege you should earn, not an entitlement. I would hold nothing back from a slut who flirts with other guys in front of me, except physical violence.

 

But YOU are the slut in the scenario. You said it yourself. You look at it as an investment and you expect a return on that investment.

You spend your money hoping it will make the girl value you more. But like a guy who cannot value the sex too easily had, you are not going to be valued for your efforts to buy a woman's affections.

Quit being a slut.

And then you want stick around to scream and pout and name call someone who is speaking your language? You were easy so you are easily discarded. That is suppose to be someone else's fault and not your fault?

[cognac]

But YOU are the slut in the scenario. You said it yourself. You look at it as an investment and you expect a return on that investment.

You spend your money hoping it will make the girl value you more. But like a guy who cannot value the sex too easily had, you are not going to be valued for your efforts to buy a woman's affections.[/Quote]

 

 

Actually , personally speaking, I have never invested much money into women. In that regard I was referring mostly to other guys I see who blow 50 dollars on a stupid movie date just for the girl to say there was no chemistry 5 minutes after. I've never been in this boat and never will, I wait to make sure the girl likes me before I take her out etc.

 

I was referring mostly to emotions and time. A woman gives me hints, sometimes blatantly states she wants me, just to flirt with the next 6'3 muscleman that walks by. That is wasting my time and insulting me.

 

Quit being a slut.

And then you want stick around to scream and pout and name call someone who is speaking your language? You were easy so you are easily discarded. That is suppose to be someone else's fault and not your fault?

 

LOL. I see, so when a woman takes advantage of a man who loves them, wants to show them affection, and make them feel good, it is HIS fault when she takes advantage of that?

 

This is the kind of upside down sick mentality that makes this world a cesspool and people so defensive. If you show kindness towards someone, and they spit on it, it's your own fault, the person (woman) was just taking her opportunity as she saw it

 

I have a right to be angry without being called a jerk, when a woman takes advantage of me. You confuse being a gentlemen and a decent guy, with being dumb.

[sally4sara]

Actually , personally speaking, I have never invested much money into women. In that regard I was referring mostly to other guys I see who blow 50 dollars on a stupid movie date just for the girl to say there was no chemistry 5 minutes after. I've never been in this boat and never will, I wait to make sure the girl likes me before I take her out etc.

 

I was referring mostly to emotions and time. A woman gives me hints, sometimes blatantly states she wants me, just to flirt with the next 6'3 muscleman that walks by. That is wasting my time and insulting me.

 

 

 

LOL. I see, so when a woman takes advantage of a man who loves them, wants to show them affection, and make them feel good, it is HIS fault when she takes advantage of that?

 

This is the kind of upside down sick mentality that makes this world a cesspool and people so defensive. If you show kindness towards someone, and they spit on it, it's your own fault, the person (woman) was just taking her opportunity as she saw it

 

I have a right to be angry without being called a jerk, when a woman takes advantage of me. You confuse being a gentlemen and a decent guy, with being dumb.

 

Once again, reading comprehension - learn it, love it, whatever but do please use it.

I find it hard to believe someone who thinks women should be exterminated save for their vagina, could actually love anyone.

And AGAIN, spending money to get someone to treat you how you should get treated anyway is being a slut in the same way someone giving up the sex to get someone to like them more is a slut.

I DID NOT say anyone deserved to get treated like a slut, I just said it is a common mentality for people. People struggle to value the things they feel should be earned but have attained anyway without earning them. People do this. Not just women and not just men - PEOPLE.

Beyond that, anyone who treats you shabby should just get dropped and you should not waste anymore time or effort on them - not even to get even.

 

YOU are no gentleman.

[Vasto_Lorde]

@Cognac

 

I usually pick up the bill whenever I go on a date. I don't view that act as an investment at all. In fact, I have no expectations or desire for my date to feel the need that she has to do something for me just because I paid the bill. I was raised to pick the tab especially when I'm the one who invites the date out. The girl I'm currently dating did not like me picking up the bill so we both agreed to split bills. I've been in situations where my dates had viewed my gesture of paying the bill as me being a fool. I never get angry. I just leave them alone and keep it moving along.

[betamanlet]

Paging nice guys with itunes. Download the podcast "nice guys need love too", I think there are 4 episodes. It's really funny, points out what NGs do wrong, though I'm not nearly as bad as what they portray on there... It's kinda fun to laugh at ourselves.

[Vasto_Lorde]

Paging nice guys with itunes. Download the podcast "nice guys need love too", I think there are 4 episodes. It's really funny, points out what NGs do wrong, though I'm not nearly as bad as what they portray on there... It's kinda fun to laugh at ourselves.

Dude, Arlington has a decent population of single women. I'm thinking of moving out there because it's closer to my place of work. I commute from Silver Spring to McLean everyday and I'm tired of it. 495 is a killer.

[betamanlet]

Dude, Arlington has a decent population of single women. I'm thinking of moving out there because it's closer to my place of work. I commute from Silver Spring to McLean everyday and I'm tired of it. 495 is a killer.

 

 

And DC is supposed to have a lot more women than men, but you'd never notice that given how picky they are. Hope you can afford to buy and drive a BMW, otherwise you're better off moving to a more suburban area.

 

Heheh, i was just in Mclean on saturday.. I wouldn't want that commute either.