Vertex Posted December 26, 2009 Posted December 26, 2009 I am putting this thread here because I figure people may be able to learn the difference through example. It's easy enough to say "an assertive man has a backbone," but how does a passive man really understand what that means? What do you do differently? What do you say differently? Likewise for someone who is considered an overly confident jerk who may want to mature a bit, how do they keep the attraction without needing to prey on insecurity? What does it mean to be secure? The idea is to get a good idea what it means to be both "nice" and "confident" while rejecting the notions of "doormat" and "jerk." So, in this thread, I'm thinking that we can post questions and then have others answer them with three examples -- one showing how a nice guy might respond, one showing how an ideal assertive guy might respond, and one showing how a jerk might respond. I understand that there may be much room for humor and creativity, but please try to be honest and as forthcoming as you can (humor's fine as long as it's relevant). Here's a sample question or three to get you all started: You're going out with a girl and have a sexual need that isn't being met. How might you rectify the situation? A girl you like calls you up and asks if you can help her study for a class. A girl you like calls you up and asks for a ride to go see a guy.
alphamale Posted December 26, 2009 Posted December 26, 2009 You're going out with a girl and have a sexual need that isn't being met. How might you rectify the situation? Nice: says nothing Assertive: brings it up in convo, attempts in bed, backs of if she resists Jerk: rapes her A girl you like calls you up and asks if you can help her study for a class. Nice: can't believe this girl is calling to study and gets all nervous Assertive: says "yes" and sets a time convenient for both to study Jerk: is already studying with another female and blows her off A girl you like calls you up and asks for a ride to go see a guy. Nice: says "sure, where and when should i pick up? do i need to wait?" Assertive: says "no, i don't think i can do that, i'm busy" Jerk: doesn't answer the phone cause he's having sex with another girl
shadowplay Posted December 26, 2009 Posted December 26, 2009 I am putting this thread here because I figure people may be able to learn the difference through example. It's easy enough to say "an assertive man has a backbone," but how does a passive man really understand what that means? What do you do differently? What do you say differently? Likewise for someone who is considered an overly confident jerk who may want to mature a bit, how do they keep the attraction without needing to prey on insecurity? What does it mean to be secure? The idea is to get a good idea what it means to be both "nice" and "confident" while rejecting the notions of "doormat" and "jerk." So, in this thread, I'm thinking that we can post questions and then have others answer them with three examples -- one showing how a nice guy might respond, one showing how an ideal assertive guy might respond, and one showing how a jerk might respond. I understand that there may be much room for humor and creativity, but please try to be honest and as forthcoming as you can (humor's fine as long as it's relevant). Here's a sample question or three to get you all started: You're going out with a girl and have a sexual need that isn't being met. How might you rectify the situation? A girl you like calls you up and asks if you can help her study for a class. A girl you like calls you up and asks for a ride to go see a guy. 1) a) doormat says nothing b) confident: Response entirely depends on the specifics. How long has the guy been waiting? How much does he value the woman? Has she given any indication that things are moving in that direction but she needs more time? If he values the woman and she's told him she wants to take things slowly, then the nice, confident man will probably wait if he wants a relationship with her. If she hasn't said anything to him about where she stands and he's been waiting for awhile, the confident guy will bring it up in the bedroom. He might say "Is there anything more I can do?" If she rebuffs him, he will either wait it out or, if he can't take it anymore, he will break it off with her: "Hey, I understand you want to take things slowly, and I respect your boundaries. But I'm looking for something a bit faster paced. Unfortunately, I don't think we're compatible." c) Only a jerk will push a woman when she's made it clear she isn't ready, either through words or body language.
alphamale Posted December 26, 2009 Posted December 26, 2009 here are some more good questions...just copy and paste: You're out on a date and she gets drunk and starts to flirt with other guys Nice: Assertive: Jerk: She calls/txts you constantly to see where you are or what you're doing Nice: Assertive: Jerk: You go home and find her in bed with your best friend Nice: Assertive: Jerk:
shadowplay Posted December 26, 2009 Posted December 26, 2009 A girl you like calls you up and asks if you can help her study for a class. 1) Doormat: (I think the doormat and confident responses will be almost identical. The confident may show slightly more enthusiasm, counterintuitively.) 2) Confident: Yeah, totally! When were you thinking? I'm free -----. 3) Jerk: Yeh im busy thurs but should be back sun give me a ring. 555-5555. (purposely bad grammar and punctuation in order to seem careless, hard to get)
sagetalk Posted December 26, 2009 Posted December 26, 2009 You're going out with a girl and have a sexual need that isn't being met. How might you rectify the situation? Nice Guy: Will do nothing. They will only have sex in very serious relationships. Assertive guy: will ask for sex on the first few dates Jerk: will demand sex if turned down with a subtle move. A girl you like calls you up and asks if you can help her study for a class. Nice Guy: Would love it, sets up a time and helps her ace the test. Assertive Guy: Would love it. Sets up a time and tries to get her to do anything but study her book. Jerk: Loves it, tries to get in her pants ASAP. A girl you like calls you up and asks for a ride to go see a guy. Nice Guy: Politely decline, and apologize alot. Assentive Guy: Would probably laugh at the idea. Jerk: Would pick her up and try to have sex with her instead of taking her to the guys house.
norajane Posted December 26, 2009 Posted December 26, 2009 You've been getting to know a girl you like, and when you ask her out, she tells you she's still in love with her ex. Nice - continues to hang around whenever she wants, hoping she'll eventually get over her ex and want to date him. Confident - Moves on and gets to know other women. Jerk - doesn't care and has sex with her one night she's vulnerable and missing her ex.
shadowplay Posted December 26, 2009 Posted December 26, 2009 (edited) You're out on a date and she gets drunk and starts to flirt with other guys Doormat: Either acts more interested in her because he has low self esteem and her behavior raises her value in his eyes, or cools off a bit but not very detectably. Assertive: Cools off A LOT, maybe even breaks things off if it offends him enough. He may or may not say anything. Either way he makes his reaction to her behavior clear. Jerk: Pulls her aside and erupts at her for her behavior, maybe even calling her some names. You go home and find her in bed with your best friend Nice: Stews in rage, but doesn't break up with her. Possibly even continues to hang out with his friend. Acts passively aggressively for months or even years after. Assertive: Gives her a piece of his mind, dumps her (and best friend) on the spot, and never looks back. Jerk: Beats up best friend and calls girl every dirty name he can think of. Gets revenge by posting naked photos of her online and telling everyone he knows what a dirty whore she is. Edited December 26, 2009 by shadowplay
sally4sara Posted December 26, 2009 Posted December 26, 2009 Here's a sample question or three to get you all started: You're going out with a girl and have a sexual need that isn't being met. How might you rectify the situation? Doormat - does/says nothing. *"nice" - doesn't do anything proactive about it beyond always being around and calling all the time, telling themselves that if they hang around long enough it will just happen and he will never have to risk asking and get rejected. Then gets pissed off and creepy when she meets someone else. Assertive - lets her know she is attractive to him, stays upbeat with the flirting while explaining the hard situation he has been dealing with since her met her. Jerk - belittles her for not getting on this stick right here and reminding her someone else might get there first; gets her drunk and waits till she passes out. A girl you like calls you up and asks if you can help her study for a class. Doormat - does her homework for her. *"nice" - acts like a snot while telling her it won't matter what grades she gets because she is pretty and whines about how he has to study twice as hard just so the teacher doesn't forget he showed up for class. Then guilt trips her into going to the movies to make up for helping her study. Assertive - lets her borrow his notes so she can study after he is done chatting her up a bit. Giver her his number "In case there is anything I didn't go over in my notes." Jerk - Tell her it's a barter system - BJ in exchange for the smart kid's notes he stole. Or say you will help and slip a roofie in her soda. A girl you like calls you up and asks for a ride to go see a guy. Doormat - takes her and drops her off AND picks her up later. *"nice" - picks her up but spends the ride there flying into a rage and calling her a slut and whore the whole time till she flees the car at a red light. assertive - has other plans or its a playful call because he is the guy she is going to go see. Jerk - doesn't help and doesn't care unless she uses aforementioned barter system.
Mary3 Posted December 26, 2009 Posted December 26, 2009 here are some more good questions...just copy and paste: You're out on a date and she gets drunk and starts to flirt with other guys Nice: Um.. can I help you get his number ? Assertive: Hey we are on a date. If you want to act like a whore... Jerk: Hey ---- get your a--- over here She calls/txts you constantly to see where you are or what you're doing Nice: Hehe I love your 50 gazbillion texts , really I do ! Assertive: Hey you have text me , give me a chance to respond back Jerk: You dumb girl , stop texting me ! You go home and find her in bed with your best friend Nice: Hey do you guys need MORE condoms ? Let me drive to the CVS... Assertive: You both get dressed and get OUT ! Forever.. Jerk: Whips out his AK 47 and shoots both of them...dead.. Those would be some of my examples
shadowplay Posted December 26, 2009 Posted December 26, 2009 here are some more good questions...just copy and paste: You're out on a date and she gets drunk and starts to flirt with other guys Nice: Um.. can I help you get his number ? Assertive: Hey we are on a date. If you want to act like a whore... Jerk: Hey ---- get your a--- over here She calls/txts you constantly to see where you are or what you're doing Nice: Hehe I love your 50 gazbillion texts , really I do ! Assertive: Hey you have text me , give me a chance to respond back Jerk: You dumb girl , stop texting me ! You go home and find her in bed with your best friend Nice: Hey do you guys need MORE condoms ? Let me drive to the CVS... Assertive: You both get dressed and get OUT ! Forever.. Jerk: Whips out his AK 47 and shoots both of them...dead.. Those would be some of my examples These are obviously meant to be facetious, because most of them are way too extreme.
skydiveaddict Posted December 26, 2009 Posted December 26, 2009 You're out on a date and she gets drunk and starts to flirt with other guys Nice: "um, when you're done talking to him, would you like another drink?" Assertive: "ya know, i never really noticed before how big your a.. is" Jerk: "ya know, i never really noticed before how big your a.. is" She calls/txts you constantly to see where you are or what you're doing Nice: "so nice to hear from you again, you're so sweet" Assertive:"would you quit f..king bugging me, i'm busy" Jerk:" would you quit f..king bugging me, i'm busy" You go home and find her in bed with your best friend Nice: "oh hi baby, didn't know you were busy, sorry" Assertive:"i was right after all, you really do have a big a.." Jerk: :"i was right after all, you really do have a big a.."
Mary3 Posted December 26, 2009 Posted December 26, 2009 These are obviously meant to be facetious, because most of them are way too extreme. I love Satire .....so yes...
skydiveaddict Posted December 26, 2009 Posted December 26, 2009 These are obviously meant to be facetious, because most of them are way too extreme. facetious? who's being facetious?
Mary3 Posted December 26, 2009 Posted December 26, 2009 facetious? who's being facetious? I didn't post that sentence up there....
shadowplay Posted December 26, 2009 Posted December 26, 2009 You're out on a date and she gets drunk and starts to flirt with other guys Nice: "um, when you're done talking to him, would you like another drink?" Assertive: "ya know, i never really noticed before how big your a.. is" Jerk: "ya know, i never really noticed before how big your a.. is" She calls/txts you constantly to see where you are or what you're doing Nice: "so nice to hear from you again, you're so sweet" Assertive:"would you quit f..king bugging me, i'm busy" Jerk:" would you quit f..king bugging me, i'm busy" You go home and find her in bed with your best friend Nice: "oh hi baby, didn't know you were busy, sorry" Assertive:"i was right after all, you really do have a big a.." Jerk: :"i was right after all, you really do have a big a.." You do realize there's a huge range between doormat and jerk, one you're not acknowledging by clumping assertive and jerk together. An assertive but nice guy wouldn't talk to women that way.
skydiveaddict Posted December 26, 2009 Posted December 26, 2009 i know mary, i was shooting that @ shadowplay
shadowplay Posted December 26, 2009 Posted December 26, 2009 i know mary, i was shooting that @ shadowplay the problem is you lack the mental capacity or willingness to see the world in other than black and white.
Mary3 Posted December 26, 2009 Posted December 26, 2009 (edited) You do realize there's a huge range between doormat and jerk, one you're not acknowledging by clumping assertive and jerk together. An assertive but nice guy wouldn't talk to women that way. Gosh Shadowplay I could have made huge entire paragraphs about all the distinct differences of colors in between black and white. But I chose to go short with sarcasm.... Edited December 26, 2009 by Mary3 okay........
skydiveaddict Posted December 26, 2009 Posted December 26, 2009 You do realize there's a huge range between doormat and jerk, one you're not acknowledging by clumping assertive and jerk together. An assertive but nice guy wouldn't talk to women that way. 1: there is no such thing as an assertive "nice guy" 2: all assertive men are jerks, the two cannot be distinguished 3: "nice guy" = doormat beta male 4: "assertive/jerk= alpha male (the men women want)
shadowplay Posted December 26, 2009 Posted December 26, 2009 1: there is no such thing as an assertive "nice guy" 2: all assertive men are jerks, the two cannot be distinguished 3: "nice guy" = doormat beta male 4: "assertive/jerk= alpha male (the men women want) Hence my point above. You see the world in simplistic terms, like a child. With this mindset, you will always be lost.
skydiveaddict Posted December 26, 2009 Posted December 26, 2009 Hence my point above. You see the world in simplistic terms, like a child. With this mindset, you will always be lost. Perhaps i am simplistic, but i'm having a blast being alive & you're right i do tend to get lost a lot. but i'm not ashamed to ask for directions
shadowplay Posted December 26, 2009 Posted December 26, 2009 Gosh Shadowplay I could have made huge entire paragraphs about all the distinct differences of colors in between black and white. But I chose to go short with sarcasm.... My post was directed at Skydive, not you. Your post was funny, but not useful in terms of actual insight because it portrayed extremes that don't accurately reflect real life. This is why I assumed it was meant to be facetious. For example, a nice, assertive guy wouldn't call a girl a whore if she flirted with other men in his presence. He'd make his annoyance/anger clear, but he'd do it in a civil way.
shadowplay Posted December 26, 2009 Posted December 26, 2009 Perhaps i am simplistic, but i'm having a blast being alive & you're right i do tend to get lost a lot. but i'm not ashamed to ask for directions Ignorance is bliss! Live it up!
MyNameIsJonas Posted December 26, 2009 Posted December 26, 2009 The below situations are assuming the "nice" guy is, in fact, a "nice/nonthreatening" guy. You're going out with a girl and have a sexual need that isn't being met. How might you rectify the situation? Nice: Asks if it's okay. Gets rejected. Goes home and cries. Assertive: Makes subtle yet obvious moves and goes from there. Jerk: Makes overt and obvious moves, and if rejected, call woman some name. Walks out, calls up booty call. Kicks her out at 4AM without pants. A girl you like calls you up and asks if you can help her study for a class. Nice: "Sure! What is the subject?" (proceeds to buy every book on subject from bn.com) Assertive: "Maybe, what's the subject?" "ehhh, I'm not the best person for that. Good luck on your exam though." Click. Jerk: "Who needs classes and studying anyway? I didn't think so; Let's go get loaded." A girl you like calls you up and asks for a ride to go see a guy. Nice: "Of course! What time should I come and get you? Do you need a ride back?" (runs outside to clean car) Assertive: "I can't. I have plans with a friend. Have fun tonight." Click. Jerk: "Nah but when he isn't stuffing your stocking, I know you'll call me later." You're out on a date and she gets drunk and starts to flirt with other guys Nice: Think to self "She's just being friendly." Does nothing. Assertive: Walks over and approaches scene. If ignored by girl, walks out. deletes number from phone. Assertive guy can and will do better. Jerk: Walks over, punches guys. Gets arrested. 2-5 in state lockup. She calls/txts you constantly to see where you are or what you're doing Nice: Responds to every text, gives accurate details of location, willing to relocate to see girl. Assertive: Responds to one or two texts, if any, depending on what the assertive guy is doing at the time. Jerk: Doesn't respond at all, or when he does, it's to initiate a booty call. You go home and find her in bed with your best friend Nice: Apologizes for whatever he did to deserve this. Assertive: Stops for a minute, laughs, walks out. Severs all ties with friend and girl. True friends wouldn't do that to other friends. Jerk: Walks over and punches friend. Grabs girl, calls her a number of names. Neighbors call police, 15-25 in state lockup.
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