TheWatcher Posted December 26, 2009 Posted December 26, 2009 When the did the word nice(when describing a man) become such a pejorative term ? How did it come to equal:boring,predictable,uninteresting, manipulative,needy,doormat,etc.When did it become the romantic kiss of death when directed towards a man ? Is being labeled nice as pejorative for a woman as it seemingly is for a guy ? Personally,I don't think that it is. There are fewer and fewer guys that will now claim they are nice rather they are (and should) refer to themselves as decent..but that term will eventually change in its connotation.
betamanlet Posted December 26, 2009 Posted December 26, 2009 When the did the word nice(when describing a man) become such a pejorative term ? How did it come to equal:boring,predictable,uninteresting, manipulative,needy,doormat,etc.When did it become the romantic kiss of death when directed towards a man ? Is being labeled nice as pejorative for a woman as it seemingly is for a guy ? Personally,I don't think that it is. There are fewer and fewer guys that will now claim they are nice rather they are (and should) refer to themselves as decent..but that term will eventually change in its connotation. It comes from, "he's nice, but boring"
carhill Posted December 26, 2009 Posted December 26, 2009 It all started with two ladies in the South Two southern ladies are sitting at the country club by the pool. The first southern lady says, "When I had my first child, my husband bought me a diamond ring." The second lady says, "Well, isn't that nice?" The first lady says, "When my second child was born, my husband took me on a cruise." The second lady says,''well isn't that nice ?" The first lady continues, "When my third child was born, my husband took me on a trip around the world." And the second lady says, once again, "Well, isn't that nice?" The first lady asks, "Well, what did your husband get you when your first child was born?" The second lady replies, "My husband sent me to a fine French finishing school." The first lady asks, "Well why did he do that?" And the second lady says, "So I could learn to say ‘Well isn't that nice?,’ instead of ‘F*CK YOU’!"
muse08 Posted December 26, 2009 Posted December 26, 2009 Unfortunately, men who refer to THEMSELVES as nice, seem to always turn out not so nice at all or just flat out insane. So perhaps you should start describing yourself as "far from nice" and we females will assume just the opposite.
Lovelybird Posted December 26, 2009 Posted December 26, 2009 I think when people say "nice guy or nice girl", probably most of people would think "fake guy or fake girl", and date a dishonest person is not something one would look forward to. But a really genuine guy and girl who are really nice keep being honest to themselves and others, when they are nice to others, they are being genuine without resentment, when they say no, they mean no. I think that is the best date or partner one can have because you can connect to this person on a truth level, not the fake one. Some guys complain that women love jerks, well, besides these women have own issues, they probably love the honesty those jerk's have, they plainly show their jerkness with honesty , but some "nice guy or girl" simply hide their jerkness or badness, maybe they rather believe they never have badness in themselves. Dishonest to self is also dishonest.
Green Posted December 26, 2009 Posted December 26, 2009 Its because some women will have a good reason for rejecting a guy like he's a creep but often the person seems like a nice guy and there is no attraction. So the woman is like "hes a nice guy" yet has no passion for him. Just because the woman is rejecting him doesn't mean she has to call him a creep or a loser even if she is posibly thinking it. Now the guy who has been rejected and always told he is nice in his mind takes this as the reason why he was rejected when in reality this has nothing to do with anything, the woman didn't think oh he's nice let me reject him the woman thought no chemistry and I'm not attracted to him but shes not going to say "he was an unattractive ugy" or "you are unattractive" or "I don't find you attractive" that is pretty rare for a woman to come out and say that.
MyNameIsJonas Posted December 26, 2009 Posted December 26, 2009 I feel that there are two types of "nice" when women are describing "nice guys:" "Nice" meaning "nonthreatening" and "nice" meaning "nice." Nice/nonthreatening are generally guys with no real confidence and are submissive toward women and people in general. They respond when a woman comes calling regardless of communication medium (phone, text, whatever), and take their advice on women from their mothers. Guys who act like this basically believe that they need external forces (money, physical acts) to help them because thier personality alone will not suffice. They also treat a women better than they feel they treat themselves. I feel that women do not respond to these guys on a level beyond simple friendship because this behavior portrays a lack of confidence, which women do not want in a potential mate. Nice/nice are guys who are, in fact, nice but have confidence. They will tell a woman how good she looks and try to make her feel better about herself, but also put himself first, at least early in the dating stages. The nice/nice guy treats a woman the same as he treats himself; no better, no worse. At the same time, if a women goes off the deep end, the nice/nice guy will walk away because he knows can and will find better. Women respond well to this type of guy because, well, high confidence attracts high confidence. I've found that women who rejects a nice/nice guy prematurely finds herself in her late 30s/early 40s living with 12 cats while the dumped guy is living with a better woman and with 12 kids.
muse08 Posted December 26, 2009 Posted December 26, 2009 (edited) I personally love nice guys, but they seem to be becoming extinct. They want to appear the "bad boy" type to try to avoid not being taken advantage of or what not. I say this a lot, but life would be so much easier if people would just be more transparent. If you notice that someone is taking your kindness for weakness(repeatedly), then show them your bad/assertive/*sshole/b*tchy side, by kicking them to the curb ASAP. By all means be assertive and lookout for your best interest, but don't change who you are or become a dog as a result of your experiences. Edited December 26, 2009 by muse08
Lovelybird Posted December 26, 2009 Posted December 26, 2009 I am not sure looking out for your best interests is the good principle for dating. I believe there is a balance. One cannot enter a relationship aiming at seeking to serve self best. I believe being honest should serve to seek another's best interests as well. Such as if one girl is too self-centered, and the man doesn't comply, and confront her, then he is doing her favor, allow her to see her own problems and then improve. Usually 'too nice guy' would comply, and he becomes an enabler, enable her self-centeredness. She will get tired of this although on the surface she wins.
muse08 Posted December 26, 2009 Posted December 26, 2009 I feel that there are two types of "nice" when women are describing "nice guys:" "Nice" meaning "nonthreatening" and "nice" meaning "nice." Pretty good description. However, IME these guy who are so called "nice/nonthreatening" are often very passive aggressive. Rather than addressing issues head on, they wait and/or plot to get revenge. That to me IS threatening b/c you never know what things will set them off. They hold a lot inside or just go run and tell their "mammas" the HALF truth. I love the nice guy though, who puts his foot down (in a respectful way) when it's time to...it's really sexy!
muse08 Posted December 26, 2009 Posted December 26, 2009 I am not sure looking out for your best interests is the good principle for dating. I believe there is a balance. One cannot enter a relationship aiming at seeking to serve self best. I believe being honest should serve to seek another's best interests as well. Such as if one girl is too self-centered, and the man doesn't comply, and confront her, then he is doing her favor, allow her to see her own problems and then improve. Usually 'too nice guy' would comply, and he becomes an enabler, enable her self-centeredness. She will get tired of this although on the surface she wins. Point well taken. However, I don't encourage selfcenteredness. Transparency (which I'm trying to advocate) wouldn't work... When I say look out for your best interest, I'm referring to the point where a person feels that someone is taking their kindness for weakness.
Lovelybird Posted December 26, 2009 Posted December 26, 2009 Agree ! I really love a man who can confront me about my wrongdoings, that is so charming. Have you ever watched Emma? The hero in this movie is very charming when he boldly confronted Emma about her rudeness toward her friend, although large part of his motive is out of jealousy, but still, he is right:love:
PinkToes Posted December 26, 2009 Posted December 26, 2009 Nice is a good thing in my world, I still use it as a compliment. If I described a guy as "too nice" it would probably mean I had no interest in him to begin with and he couldn't take a hint and turned into a doormat to convince me otherwise. To be honest, I don't hear a lot of men describing themselves as "too nice" unless they've been burned by a woman they're interested in and are looking for an excuse. But then maybe I've been hanging around here too long.
MyNameIsJonas Posted December 26, 2009 Posted December 26, 2009 I personally love nice guys, but they seem to be becoming extinct. They want to appear the "bad boy" type to try to avoid not being taken advantage of or what not. I say this a lot, but life would be so much easier if people would just be more transparent. You say you love nice guys, but you are probably/hopefully referring to nice/nice guys. They are out there, but yes, they are a dying breed. I think some reformed "nice/submissive" guys go down this road because they measure success with women by quantity not quality. They see DBs in bars and clubs picking up women with very little effort and think "me too" and thus emulate this behavior. What these same guys DO NOT realize is that these dbs are not going after companionship, they are just adding knots to their bedpost with women who have no confidence. So former "nice/submissive" guys apply this behavior toward women of quality, who are looking for "nice/nice," fail miserably at it, then rant about it. Then, hopefully, they see the true light and realize the key is being nice and having enough confidence to walk away from a "low quality" woman, ie the type that would be attracted to earlier said bar/club DB. However, more often than not, this does not happen and these reformed "nice/submissive" guys just get depressed and never try again.
muse08 Posted December 26, 2009 Posted December 26, 2009 Prime example: Some people "appear" very nice/meak/mild, but as soon as you cross the line they let you know "what time it is". Be "nice", but dont be a doormat. Be nice, not passive agressive. That only starts a cycle that causes relationships to deteriorate really fast.
MyNameIsJonas Posted December 26, 2009 Posted December 26, 2009 Prime example: Some people "appear" very nice/meak/mild, but as soon as you cross the line they let you know "what time it is". Be "nice", but dont be a doormat. Be nice, not passive agressive. That only starts a cycle that causes relationships to deteriorate really fast. Quoted for truth. It's one of the reasons the divorce rate is so high in modern times. I have a friend who is having this problem. He is the nicest kid I know (in a good way) but he is a doormat to everyone, not just women. As a result, he is never able to connect with women on a level beyond friendship. He tried once, and it actually ended up with him losing a good friend because she believed "things got awkward," although I personally believe "mature" women would look past this but that's a different issue.....
muse08 Posted December 26, 2009 Posted December 26, 2009 You say you love nice guys, but you are probably/hopefully referring to nice/nice guys. They are out there, but yes, they are a dying breed. Yeah, I do like the nice/nice guys...NOT the nice/nonthreatening b/c they are not really nice to me. As mentioned before, they tend to be passive aggressive and just weak mamma's boys who don't make decisions until a female member of the family tells him what to do, based on the "half truth"...ughhh:sick:
muse08 Posted December 26, 2009 Posted December 26, 2009 Quoted for truth. It's one of the reasons the divorce rate is so high in modern times. I have a friend who is having this problem. He is the nicest kid I know (in a good way) but he is a doormat to everyone, not just women. As a result, he is never able to connect with women on a level beyond friendship. He tried once, and it actually ended up with him losing a good friend because she believed "things got awkward," although I personally believe "mature" women would look past this but that's a different issue..... wow...sad story.
MyNameIsJonas Posted December 26, 2009 Posted December 26, 2009 wow...sad story. Eh, he's a good kid and one of my best friends. Things will work out for him because he refuses to take on the fake "bad boy" persona. He just needs some confidence. I touched on this eariler but I think part of the reason his story was such a nuclear fallout was because the girl in question wasn't really mature. I feel that a more mature woman would have given him some space, then slowly worked things back to the way they were. She, on the other hand, chose to actively avoid him in all social situations, even though they had common friends. This in turn caused my friend to blame himself further when all he did was take a risk. Not saying my friend's execution was flawless but she could've reacted a lot better than she did, hence "immature."
betamanlet Posted December 26, 2009 Posted December 26, 2009 I'm nice, I'm not passive agressive, and I'm direct, and I've never been afraid to speak my mind. I once dated a chick that would say very disturbing things, like she wanted to beat people to death, and every time she said that I would say "that's really freaking disturbing, stop doing that" and then she would apologize, and eventually stopped doing it all together. I still got dumped.
MyNameIsJonas Posted December 26, 2009 Posted December 26, 2009 I'm nice, I'm not passive agressive, and I'm direct, and I've never been afraid to speak my mind. I once dated a chick that would say very disturbing things, like she wanted to beat people to death, and every time she said that I would say "that's really freaking disturbing, stop doing that" and then she would apologize, and eventually stopped doing it all together. I still got dumped. Dude, if I heard anyone, much less a woman whom I had a romantic relationship, say something like that I would walk away on the spot. The only reason you aren't able to speak your mind is because you let people walk all over you. Hence the earlier mentioned "doormat." If someone cuts you off, call them out. If they keep doing it or tell you to F off, walk away. It's that easy. They are crazy women out there just as there are crazy guys out there. I've met and "ejected" my fair share of crazy women because I know there are better out there. I don't blame myself or "the game," (even though I think the concept of "the game" is bs), I just realize that it is what it is.
skydiveaddict Posted December 26, 2009 Posted December 26, 2009 When the did the word nice(when describing a man) become such a pejorative term ? How did it come to equal:boring,predictable,uninteresting, manipulative,needy,doormat,etc.When did it become the romantic kiss of death when directed towards a man ? Is being labeled nice as pejorative for a woman as it seemingly is for a guy ? Personally,I don't think that it is. There are fewer and fewer guys that will now claim they are nice rather they are (and should) refer to themselves as decent..but that term will eventually change in its connotation. "nice" has always been a pejorative term for guys. if you are "nice" you will get no where with a woman. It's easy to prove. if you have a gf, just start treating her "nicely" you will be sent down the road before you even know what happened
MyNameIsJonas Posted December 26, 2009 Posted December 26, 2009 I'm nice, I'm not passive agressive, and I'm direct, and I've never been afraid to speak my mind. I once dated a chick that would say very disturbing things, like she wanted to beat people to death, and every time she said that I would say "that's really freaking disturbing, stop doing that" and then she would apologize, and eventually stopped doing it all together. I still got dumped. Ignore what I said about letting people walk all over you. I read that wrong. Apologies.
MyNameIsJonas Posted December 26, 2009 Posted December 26, 2009 (edited) "nice" has always been a pejorative term for guys. if you are "nice" you will get no where with a woman. It's easy to prove. if you have a gf, just start treating her "nicely" you will be sent down the road before you even know what happened I think a lot of guys distort the difference between treating a girl like crap and teasing her a bit. A friend of mine from college has been married to his college sweetheart for over 3 years, and dated for 3 years beforehand. He treats her like a princess yet if she does or says something stupid, he is quick to call her out and laugh about it. She is confident enough to know that he loves her and doesn't mean it. I've never seen two people more happy to be around each other. Another friend of mine was in a 6 month relationship with a girl but basically answered her beck and call. He even went so far as to risk a DUI by drunk driving her and two of her drunk friends 45 minutes out so they would all get home. She got bored with him and they broke up a few months later. Women want to be seen as equals. If they do something funny or whatever, say it and laugh with them. If she laughs with you, she's confident and someone you want to be around. If she reacts adversely and throws water in your face, she's insecure and you are better off without her. Edited December 26, 2009 by MyNameIsJonas
muse08 Posted December 26, 2009 Posted December 26, 2009 I'm nice, I'm not passive agressive, and I'm direct, and I've never been afraid to speak my mind. I once dated a chick that would say very disturbing things, like she wanted to beat people to death, and every time she said that I would say "that's really freaking disturbing, stop doing that" and then she would apologize, and eventually stopped doing it all together. I still got dumped. Lol...I'm not laughing at you betamanlet. I'm just laughing at your punchline,"I still got dumped". All situations are different. WHY DID SHE DUMP YOU? There are some women who just don't deserve nice/nice assertive guys. I'm a female, but I know how some of us can be. They mess it up for the rest of us. I'm not perfect, but I don't abuse a guy's niceness. However, I am upfront when I think a guy is moving too fast for me or trying to control me.(I know the difference btwn assertiveness and control.) My last ex took it as me trying to cheat on him when I wanted to sleep in my own bed without him being there at least once a week(this was only like 2 months into our relationship). BTW, he was a "selfproclaimed" nice guy, i.e. fake niceguy. He went to his mother and aunt about everything...everything! I lost respect for him. I love a man who loves his mother, but when he tells her personal things that no one needs to know, then that's a problem. He tried to control me in different ways probably b/c his life b4 me was chaotic. I didn't wanna deal with all that b/c it wouldn't have been fair to me. I don't think I was selfish in breaking up with him, just "looking out for my best interest". Perhaps you should have broken up with that chic when you observed her potentionally violent behavior. I'm sure you saw the red lights, but you were probably trying to be "nice" and give her the benefit of the doubt;). We live (love) and learn.
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