xMM's W and I have finally talked....

[Hazyhead]

I think that the phonecall would have helped you move on, if he hadn't wandered into your office to contradict his feelings. But, I agree that I don't think H4U is quite ready to move on just yet. Hon, as long as you're holding on to a little bit of hope, which is kinda natural given the depth of your feelings, you will hold yourself back for him - whether you mean to or not. I think even if there were a shred of hope you need to let it fall and walk away, find plenty of distractions and heal yourself. Try to forget it as best you can and end it now; I think your converstation with the wife should be the last bit of contact you have.

 

Good luck H4U. Enjoy your Christmas.

[stampdaddy]

that when the VERY same thing happened to me a couple of years ago, the "phone calls" between me and my MW's husband, I don't remember receiving the same "negative" commentary that has been given here. Now, it's not awful, but negative is still negative.

 

She did the best she could. I mean, I can vividly recall the fear, the guilt, the heartbreak, the anticipation, the unknown, the fight, the honor, the disgust, the hope, the failure, the betrayal (both given and received) and the million other feelings that ran through me. Of course I wanted him to have the TRUTH, and if some of you remember, I gave it, most of it. I did feel that MW owed him her share of it, but I was told I was the ONLY one giving it.

 

In this case, the wife knows most of it, and for her "temporary" sanity, needed to talk to the OP and hear from her. We can NOT fault OP for anything she said or didnt say, she did her best. This is a vicious TRIANGLE of people and their souls to try to figure this out, which takes me back to my thread on here, titled "Chickensh*t" in which this particular MOM fits into..

 

Merry Christmas Ass Clown! You seem to have gotten away with it all.....

[fooled once]

I think I must of worded the phone call all wrong because I didn't want to try to convince her he loved me more or anything else along those lines.

Yes the things she told me were very hard to swallow and they hurt.

At times through the conversation we were both fighting back tears.

I have no intention of 'waiting' for him, yes, I'm going through hell right now and I know its going to be a long time before he is not the 1st thing I think about when I wake up and the last thing I think about when I go to sleep but I will get there.

 

What his W said about him wanting what was in front of him all this time and his feelings for me not being real felt like a dagger in my heart. I know he wants his W and his M now and that is closure for me. If he had ever told me that I would of walked away but he didn't.

I don't think he will be back, I truly do think he is giving his W 100% and that how I will get over all of this by believing he has finally done the right thing for all 3 of us.

 

I am very sorry you are hurting. You will one day wake up and realize what a blessing it is that the A is over and that you are ready to move on.

[White Flower]

that when the VERY same thing happened to me a couple of years ago, the "phone calls" between me and my MW's husband, I don't remember receiving the same "negative" commentary that has been given here. Now, it's not awful, but negative is still negative.

 

She did the best she could. I mean, I can vividly recall the fear, the guilt, the heartbreak, the anticipation, the unknown, the fight, the honor, the disgust, the hope, the failure, the betrayal (both given and received) and the million other feelings that ran through me. Of course I wanted him to have the TRUTH, and if some of you remember, I gave it, most of it. I did feel that MW owed him her share of it, but I was told I was the ONLY one giving it.

 

In this case, the wife knows most of it, and for her "temporary" sanity, needed to talk to the OP and hear from her. We can NOT fault OP for anything she said or didnt say, she did her best. This is a vicious TRIANGLE of people and their souls to try to figure this out, which takes me back to my thread on here, titled "Chickensh*t" in which this particular MOM fits into..

 

Merry Christmas Ass Clown! You seem to have gotten away with it all.....

You bring up a very good point Stamp.

 

I have thought of this often and I would like to think that if she called me we would sit for hours over coffee and figure out a way to castrate him. We would probably end up scrapbooking the pictures we so proudly took of our handy work.

 

NOT.

 

Because even though he hurt both of us in the back of the OWs mind there still lies hope that he could choose her. And if he does, she doesn't want the dirty laundry aired. Besides that, if there is a fighting chance for the M, the OW doesn't want to cloud the M with pictures that the healing BS doesn't want to see in their head.

 

Again, the 'ass clown' wins. And so does the one he chooses.

[mybrowneyedgirl]

wow. what an interesting thread. ive been told that she will contact me shortly. not by him, by a mutual friend. its rumored that shes filed for divorce or at least met with an attorney, although theyre still in MC trying to work through it. anyways the word is she wants to talk to me.

 

i do know that from previous conversations with her she has such a skewed view of the entire situation that anything i say probably wouldnt mean much. and i say this not because of whatever lies hes fed her (i dont know what hes said after dday) because of how she felt about us being just friends. it was very one sided....she didnt realize that the friendship went two ways.

 

part of me would love to air it all. one, i would like to finally come clean to her and stop the hurt and lies. i regret lying to her in the past to cover for him. i owe her at least enough to stop being dishonest to her face. two, i have no obligation to him anymore, no reason to cover, i need to do whats best for me not for "us". three, the angry part of me wants to expose his lies and the crap hes still telling her.

 

but i think i wouldnt tell anything. ive decided if she contacts me and asks something im uncomfortable answering i will simply say "you need to talk to your husband about that." i hope that will take me out of it and also be enough of a hint that maybe theres more she needs to discuss with him and not me.

 

and yes, part of me still does not want to betray him and air the dirty laundry. maybe theres reasons deep down for feeling this way but i choose not to expose him still. i also think if hes lied or omitted something to her that he may have a good reason for it. she knows the big picture, do the painful details really matter?

 

but good post. OP i think you did an excellent job. much better than i would have. i get all flustered in these situations and cant get the words out right.

[pureinheart]

It sounds like you are reaching for something that isn't there. Just like the posters who saw OP doing something to hurt the wife....all I see is 2 women trying to make head or tails from what is happening. If there is some anger(damn well should be)from the wife, she does have a right to confront and deal with that anger. H4U has stepped up and done what was right by talking to the wife. At some point she will need to end that for the healing of both of them, but until then nothing in her post about the words of the wife, say the wife did anything wrong.

 

I sounds to me like you do not think others should have opinions or see things that are contrary to your own....

[bentnotbroken]

I sounds to me like you do not think others should have opinions or see things that are contrary to your own....

 

 

I think everyone has an opinion. You know it's like butt holes we all got 'em:laugh:. And it appeared to me (my opinion) there was reaching. Both women seemed to have handled themselves rather well considering the circumstances.

[Alpha Female]

The reason she keeps contacting you is because she knows he is telling her lies, and she is fighting to find some truth. She wants to believe him, but its funny, she cant because of his betrayal, yet for some reason, she thinks shes going to get honesty from his former OW. Its sad, because it shows how she is grasping at anything to hold onto to. No matter how illusory or fleeting.

 

As far as MM, of course when he talks to her he is going to minimize and diminish the A. Much as he minimized and diminished the M when talking to you.

 

When a MM is caught between two women like this, he will say what he needs to in order to accommodate whats in front of him. So, he told you his W was crappy in bed, and then you know he turned around and told her your R wasnt so much sexual, and it wasnt that hot either. The truth from a MM is often an true unknown, thats the real problem. Both women want to believe what he is saying, yet deep down, you both know his capacity for lying and betrayal is intense and therefore, you both try and seek some sort of truth - even if it comes from talking to each other.

 

I will say his W sounds like a lovely woman. She has shown no hostility towards you, and I commend her for staying classy.

 

So, as far as her comments that cut you deeply, remember this is coming from his convenient truth he told her to appease her and minimize you. I wouldnt take it as the real truth, as I think with MM, the real truth lies somewhere between the two tales they tell. Dont let it get to you too much. He is doing and saying what he needs to remedy the situation hes in. I dont think it will stick, and I dont think it will last, but for now, this apparently is where he needs to be. Just dont continue to engage with her. Id really beg off more conversations with her. Let him work this out, and let him give her answers. And if they are not sufficient for her, then its not your role to mediate and navigate their M.

[fooled once]

The reason she keeps contacting you is because she knows he is telling her lies, and she is fighting to find some truth. She wants to believe him, but its funny, she cant because of his betrayal, yet for some reason, she thinks shes going to get honesty from his former OW. Its sad, because it shows how she is grasping at anything to hold onto to. No matter how illusory or fleeting.

 

As far as MM, of course when he talks to her he is going to minimize and diminish the A. Much as he minimized and diminished the M when talking to you.

 

When a MM is caught between two women like this, he will say what he needs to in order to accommodate whats in front of him. So, he told you his W was crappy in bed, and then you know he turned around and told her your R wasnt so much sexual, and it wasnt that hot either. The truth from a MM is often an true unknown, thats the real problem. Both women want to believe what he is saying, yet deep down, you both know his capacity for lying and betrayal is intense and therefore, you both try and seek some sort of truth - even if it comes from talking to each other.

 

I will say his W sounds like a lovely woman. She has shown no hostility towards you, and I commend her for staying classy.

 

So, as far as her comments that cut you deeply, remember this is coming from his convenient truth he told her to appease her and minimize you. I wouldnt take it as the real truth, as I think with MM, the real truth lies somewhere between the two tales they tell. Dont let it get to you too much. He is doing and saying what he needs to remedy the situation hes in. I dont think it will stick, and I dont think it will last, but for now, this apparently is where he needs to be. Just dont continue to engage with her. Id really beg off more conversations with her. Let him work this out, and let him give her answers. And if they are not sufficient for her, then its not your role to mediate and navigate their M.

 

Very good post!

[Fallen Angel]

The reason she keeps contacting you is because she knows he is telling her lies, and she is fighting to find some truth. She wants to believe him, but its funny, she cant because of his betrayal, yet for some reason, she thinks shes going to get honesty from his former OW. Its sad, because it shows how she is grasping at anything to hold onto to. No matter how illusory or fleeting.

 

As far as MM, of course when he talks to her he is going to minimize and diminish the A. Much as he minimized and diminished the M when talking to you.

 

When a MM is caught between two women like this, he will say what he needs to in order to accommodate whats in front of him. So, he told you his W was crappy in bed, and then you know he turned around and told her your R wasnt so much sexual, and it wasnt that hot either. The truth from a MM is often an true unknown, thats the real problem. Both women want to believe what he is saying, yet deep down, you both know his capacity for lying and betrayal is intense and therefore, you both try and seek some sort of truth - even if it comes from talking to each other.

 

I will say his W sounds like a lovely woman. She has shown no hostility towards you, and I commend her for staying classy.

 

So, as far as her comments that cut you deeply, remember this is coming from his convenient truth he told her to appease her and minimize you. I wouldnt take it as the real truth, as I think with MM, the real truth lies somewhere between the two tales they tell. Dont let it get to you too much. He is doing and saying what he needs to remedy the situation hes in. I dont think it will stick, and I dont think it will last, but for now, this apparently is where he needs to be. Just dont continue to engage with her. Id really beg off more conversations with her. Let him work this out, and let him give her answers. And if they are not sufficient for her, then its not your role to mediate and navigate their M.

 

Well said... and welcome back, my friend. ((hugs))

[hopeless4u]

I would just like to say thank you to everyone for the advice and most of it I can relate to.

 

I think the call from his W was needed and hopefully we have both got some sort of closure from it.

 

I hope that this is the last I will hear from her and its now up to the both of us to move on.

 

As for me finding myself again....well I think its going to be a very long and lonely journey. I know eventually I will get there and just need to be strong on those bad days.

[norajane]

He is sorry for the pain he has caused me and how I have wasted the last 2yrs of my life on him and he hopes I can move on. (Shame he couldn't of told me that himself 2yrs ago! DAMAGE DONE ALREADY!

 

This really stood out to me, and maybe what I say won't make sense or seem helpful now, but it will later...

 

He DID tell you 2 years ago...the moment he told you he was married. You knew right when you started this affair with him, that you were in for a wold of hurt and putting your life and your desires on hold for his marriage. Yet you chose the affair anyway. YOU CHOSE. You had a choice, and that's the one you made.

 

It's important to understand that and to own it, because that makes you feel less his VICTIM. It forces you to take a good, hard look at yourself and figure out WHY you would choose an affair in the first place. Because if you don't get to the bottom of why you were willing to get into an affair and wait 2 long years until d-day finally ended the affair, you will just blame him and continue to get into bad relationship after bad relationship.

 

This affair didn't "happen" to you. He didn't lie to you about being married. You knew he had a wife and you knew all along that he wasn't doing anything to get a divorce. And you chose that for yourself by not walking away from the start, and by not ending the affair at any point during the last 2 years.

 

You were not at his mercy. You had free will. You had the power of thought and reason. You had the option of leaving him at any time. Own your choices and you will feel less powerless. Own your choices and figure out why you made them and control your life.

 

Again, the 'ass clown' wins. And so does the one he chooses.

 

The ass clown wins, but not the one he chooses. The one he chooses doesn't win. All she gets is an ass clown. Ass clown hasn't changed - he's still an ass clown whose distinguishing characteristic is supreme selfishness and practiced deception.

[hopeless4u]

This really stood out to me, and maybe what I say won't make sense or seem helpful now, but it will later...

 

He DID tell you 2 years ago...the moment he told you he was married. You knew right when you started this affair with him, that you were in for a wold of hurt and putting your life and your desires on hold for his marriage. Yet you chose the affair anyway. YOU CHOSE. You had a choice, and that's the one you made.

 

It's important to understand that and to own it, because that makes you feel less his VICTIM. It forces you to take a good, hard look at yourself and figure out WHY you would choose an affair in the first place. Because if you don't get to the bottom of why you were willing to get into an affair and wait 2 long years until d-day finally ended the affair, you will just blame him and continue to get into bad relationship after bad relationship.

 

This affair didn't "happen" to you. He didn't lie to you about being married. You knew he had a wife and you knew all along that he wasn't doing anything to get a divorce. And you chose that for yourself by not walking away from the start, and by not ending the affair at any point during the last 2 years.

 

You were not at his mercy. You had free will. You had the power of thought and reason. You had the option of leaving him at any time. Own your choices and you will feel less powerless. Own your choices and figure out why you made them and control your life.

 

 

 

The ass clown wins, but not the one he chooses. The one he chooses doesn't win. All she gets is an ass clown. Ass clown hasn't changed - he's still an ass clown whose distinguishing characteristic is supreme selfishness and practiced deception.

 

Yes it was my choice and I do take ownership of my choice but if I'd of known then the pain we have caused his W and each other I would of walked away.

I am trying to deal with 'the now', that is the only way I can make things better. Wishing I had done things differently isn't going to change anything.

 

The 1 thing I have learned is that I will NEVER do this again, with him or with anyone else.

[norajane]

Yes it was my choice and I do take ownership of my choice but if I'd of known then the pain we have caused his W and each other I would of walked away.

I am trying to deal with 'the now', that is the only way I can make things better. Wishing I had done things differently isn't going to change anything.

 

The 1 thing I have learned is that I will NEVER do this again, with him or with anyone else.

 

What I wrote is not about wishing you had done things differently. It's about doing some hard thinking about why you did things the way you did.

 

Just saying you won't have an affair again doesn't mean you won't make OTHER bad choices about relationships...like picking men who are unavailable or inappropriate for a multitude of other reasons not related to his marital status.

 

Why did you choose to get involved and stay involved with an unavailable man? Figure that out, and you won't find yourself in a relationship with someone who can't give you what you want.

 

And it's a cop-out to say you were unaware of the pain you would cause his wife and each other when you got involved. What did you think was going to happen other than hurting yourself and his wife? Better question - what did you think you were getting that was so important that you were willing to hurt yourself and his wife?

 

I'm not asking you to answer those here - those are things for you to do some thinking about so you come out of this healthier and stronger and less susceptible to crap relationships.

[hopeless4u]

just based upon the things you have written on here, you sound like a really decent person with a great capacity to love... you deserve to have someone in your life who will be able to give that same love back to you.

 

Maybe this time next year you will be posting a note on here to update people on how great your life is going... I hope that is exactly what happens... you deserve it.

 

Thank you FS, that means a lot as I have also read and posted on your situation.

I know to some people its black and white and I know I could of and should of handled things better but it is was it is and I can't change that now.

 

You are right FS I am a decent person, the pain I am feeling right now is of my own making and I probably deserve it but I truly didn't realise the impact this A would have on so many lives, if I did I never would of started it.

 

You didn't mention how you are, I hope you are coping ok and have good friends around you and Christmas was enjoyable? xx

[bentnotbroken]

Thank you FS, that means a lot as I have also read and posted on your situation.

I know to some people its black and white and I know I could of and should of handled things better but it is was it is and I can't change that now.

 

You are right FS I am a decent person, the pain I am feeling right now is of my own making and I probably deserve it but I truly didn't realise the impact this A would have on so many lives, if I did I never would of started it.

 

You didn't mention how you are, I hope you are coping ok and have good friends around you and Christmas was enjoyable? xx

 

 

May I ask and if it is too painful I get that, but I am curious. With the realization you now have, how has your thought pattern changed? I understand hindsight is 20/20 so it is easier to see things.

[hopeless4u]

What I wrote is not about wishing you had done things differently. It's about doing some hard thinking about why you did things the way you did.

 

Just saying you won't have an affair again doesn't mean you won't make OTHER bad choices about relationships...like picking men who are unavailable or inappropriate for a multitude of other reasons not related to his marital status.

 

Why did you choose to get involved and stay involved with an unavailable man? Figure that out, and you won't find yourself in a relationship with someone who can't give you what you want.

 

And it's a cop-out to say you were unaware of the pain you would cause his wife and each other when you got involved. What did you think was going to happen other than hurting yourself and his wife? Better question - what did you think you were getting that was so important that you were willing to hurt yourself and his wife?

 

I'm not asking you to answer those here - those are things for you to do some thinking about so you come out of this healthier and stronger and less susceptible to crap relationships.

 

I understand what you are saying and believe me I have and will always think about why I got involved with xMM.

 

I am usually very level headed and do not 'fall' for men very easily (my xH broke my heart). I have always had a very positive outlook, never had a problem with being single and since my D(once i was over it) was a very confident, happy woman.

 

I don't think it had anything to do with xMM being M or taken or any of that. I fell for the man, the man he lead me to believe he was and the fact he lead me to believe his M was pretty much over.

 

I won't fall for that again, I had never been involved with a MM before, I had no idea what I was getting myself into. Yes I believed him, yes I thought he loved me and yes I was willing to wait for him so he could do the right thing for his W and family.

 

If this makes me a bad person then I am, if this makes me stupid then I am but the one thing I know I am is hurting and I'm doing my best to get myself out of this place.

[hopeless4u]

May I ask and if it is too painful I get that, but I am curious. With the realization you now have, how has your thought pattern changed? I understand hindsight is 20/20 so it is easier to see things.

 

I'm not sure but I think I may have answered this with my reply to NJ.

 

If not then let me know. Yes its painful but it needs to come out at some stage and TBH this is why I'm here.

[bentnotbroken]

I'm not sure but I think I may have answered this with my reply to NJ.

 

If not then let me know. Yes its painful but it needs to come out at some stage and TBH this is why I'm here.

 

 

Not really. But I can't quite phrase it the way my thoughts are running. I will keep reading your responses. Thank you.

[PhoenixRise]

hopeless4u

 

I just wanted to say I think you handled things with the wife very well. In fact, I think both women handled the situation as well as possible. I am sure it wasn't easy for either of you.

 

I hope you get the healing and peace you need.

[Angel1111]

At the end of 2005, Christmas to be exact, I lost two of my grandchildren...after pride comes the fall and I fell a very long way down...at this point I realised how human I was and so were they...I am and was not in control of anything....God was and is.

 

You lost two grandchildren??? I am so sorry to hear this.

[White Flower]

The ass clown wins, but not the one he chooses. The one he chooses doesn't win. All she gets is an ass clown. Ass clown hasn't changed - he's still an ass clown whose distinguishing characteristic is supreme selfishness and practiced deception.

Deep down we all know that the chosen one doesn't really win but she thinks she does. She keeps the family together, keeps the assets, and if she likes to bury her head in the sand she gets to keep her false sense of dignity because 'he chose her'. Her perception is, the stress ends here.

 

But you're right. What she really gets is more of the same. He'll have another one in a few months time.