Lizzie60 Posted December 22, 2009 Posted December 22, 2009 Lizzie, I read the mother in question did sign documents upon their divorce, and the OP said the child was a result of a marriage in his 'young adult years'. The man in question is about your age. Then it is odd that she can 'come back' so many years later and ask for more money.. I want to know for sure.. because if that's the case.. I might do the same.. I signed when I separated from my first ex.. (common law) that I would not ask for any thing more.. (I didn't get much).. we didn't go to court.. just a lawyer.. then I could go back and ask for half his pension.. :confused:
threebyfate Posted December 22, 2009 Posted December 22, 2009 I haven't read 99% of the posts in this thread but will respond to the opening post. No divorce settlement can be devoid of child support, so I would be shocked to discover if this story is true, as defined in the opening post.
meerkat stew Posted December 22, 2009 Posted December 22, 2009 But the choice a guy has. to put a condom on is 98% effective. so wrap it if you don't want kids. And that's the only point in the process other than the decision to have sex in the first place where the man has any control whatsoever. Got news for you, the tiniest pinprick in a condom makes it useless. There's still viable sperm in a used condom and on that penis once the condom comes off. Many men most affected by these situations are too ignorant to demand a paternity test, etc. So is that amount of control -really- 98%? or some much lower number. and $700-$1000 a month please. my ex was supposed to pay $200 a month and he won't even do that! Have never in my life heard of a support payment that low. I have a friend who makes $15-20 per hour and his support payment has varied from $600-$350 over the last several years. Admittedly it's a state by state and court by court number, but I submit my friend's payment is much closer to average than your ex's is. Braces for kids' now are 5 grand. plus sports, camps, enrichment programs college. It sucks that my daughter has to do with out somet hings because he dad is an a$$. I don't think the average cost of braces is $5000 today, camps are far from a necessity for a happy healthy child, what exactly is an "enrichment program?" College is not at issue in child support payments, anyone who wants to attend college can do so in this country by taking on low interest loans, attending a public college and working during school. The problem in the U.S. is most certainly not "children doing without things that other children receive," but in equating provision of material things with good parenting. Children in the U.S. have too much given to them, no discipline, and aren't told "no" nearly enough. Also usually it is the dads that choose to be only a sperm donoer. My ex could have been present, he could have utilized his visitation but he choose not to because a baby is work. It is not fun all the time. All my divorced friends with children crave more time with their kids, yet are denied such at the whim of their ex wife. The ex wife changes the schedule on the spur of the moment with no consequences. If he is late by an hour, though, she penalizes him solely at her discretion with no recourse possible. My divorced friends know they have no voice at the courthouse, so this situation continues and is repeated monthly. I am so sicks of listening to these women hating men on this forum. It disgusts me that you think nothing of abandoning your child. It's one thing to hate someone and quite another to hate cultural realities that came about due to the manipulation of an entire gender for political ends, another to hate the use of political power unfairly. Learn the difference.
Sam Spade Posted December 22, 2009 Posted December 22, 2009 (edited) Unless the man in your scenario is the one that is actually carrying the child then your comparison is completely inept. There is a big difference of having something invade your body and shelling out cash. It's apples and oranges. Right . How is the physical discomfort of 9-month pregnancy and giving birth comparable to being chained to 18 years of responsibility that you did not want any part of. Seems like a much bigger violation to me. Assuming child support payments of about 500 a month, for 18 years this is 12X500X18 = 108,000 (not factoring any other, non-monetary costs). You will find a lot of women willing to go through pregnancy for that amount of money, so the comparision is perfectly fair. I'm merely pointing the obvious injustice of giving the fathers absolutely NO say in whether the pregnancy should progress or be terminated. Edited December 22, 2009 by Sam Spade
carhill Posted December 22, 2009 Posted December 22, 2009 When you look at the gender makeup of the historical and current legislative and judiciary branches, in addition to the obvious historical gender of the POTUS, one might opine that men did it to themselves
Sam Spade Posted December 22, 2009 Posted December 22, 2009 When you look at the gender makeup of the historical and current legislative and judiciary branches, in addition to the obvious historical gender of the POTUS, one might opine that men did it to themselves Yep, just another example of how short term deals to get the votes (of 1/2 the electorate in this case) result in bad long term consequences. Not that different from appeasing the energy lobby by passing as watered down a climate bill as possible. American politics as usual.
TheBigQuestion Posted December 22, 2009 Posted December 22, 2009 A bit of nitpicking on my part, but meerkat stew, you said something about braces not costing $5000 on the average. I had braces in the mid to late 90s and during that time it cost my family $4300 to get them, and it was a very standard set-up. Just saying.
2sure Posted December 22, 2009 Posted December 22, 2009 The low ball figure for the braces is just another indicator of a person having no clear idea, not what the stats show, but what the ACTUAL COST of having custody of a child is. My daughter is in her third year of orthodontia and so far they have cost 8,000 with still no end date in sight. Sure, to her Dad - she doesnt need them so he wont split it.
hotgurl Posted December 22, 2009 Posted December 22, 2009 A bit of nitpicking on my part, but meerkat stew, you said something about braces not costing $5000 on the average. I had braces in the mid to late 90s and during that time it cost my family $4300 to get them, and it was a very standard set-up. Just saying. yea well it is 20 years later. I bet in the 90's you could feed a family of three for under $100.
TheBigQuestion Posted December 22, 2009 Posted December 22, 2009 yea well it is 20 years later. I bet in the 90's you could feed a family of three for under $100. Yep, which is why meerkat is sorely underestimating the costs of certain things, very likely ignoring certain facts just to conform to his own arguments.
hotgurl Posted December 22, 2009 Posted December 22, 2009 And that's the only point in the process other than the decision to have sex in the first place where the man has any control whatsoever. Got news for you, the tiniest pinprick in a condom makes it useless. There's still viable sperm in a used condom and on that penis once the condom comes off. Many men most affected by these situations are too ignorant to demand a paternity test, etc. So is that amount of control -really- 98%? or some much lower number. Please if you protect yourself every time it is not an issue. My husband managed to go 40 years without knocking anyone up. Have never in my life heard of a support payment that low. I have a friend who makes $15-20 per hour and his support payment has varied from $600-$350 over the last several years. Admittedly it's a state by state and court by court number, but I submit my friend's payment is much closer to average than your ex's is. well if a guy a determined not to pay. HE just works under the table or get a crappy part time job. I don't think the average cost of braces is $5000 today, camps are far from a necessity for a happy healthy child, what exactly is an "enrichment program?" College is not at issue in child support payments, anyone who wants to attend college can do so in this country by taking on low interest loans, attending a public college and working during school. college for public college is now around 30 grand a year, and yes kids do need to go to camp. Single parents have to work whether it is summer or not. Where do you suggest kids go? Daycare ends at pre school age. Not every one have family members that helps. I easily pay over 1 grand a summer for camps. enrichments programs would be dance classes, musics classes, my daughter di drobotics. any thing like that, The problem in the U.S. is most certainly not "children doing without things that other children receive," but in equating provision of material things with good parenting. Children in the U.S. have too much given to them, no discipline, and aren't told "no" nearly enough. I don't think providing a child with a safe place to be during the summer, getting them out of the house, providing them with different skills is spoiling them. Getting them an ipod at the age of 8 ea that is spoiling. All my divorced friends with children crave more time with their kids, yet are denied such at the whim of their ex wife. The ex wife changes the schedule on the spur of the moment with no consequences. If he is late by an hour, though, she penalizes him solely at her discretion with no recourse possible. My divorced friends know they have no voice at the courthouse, so this situation continues and is repeated monthly. well that has not been my experience It's one thing to hate someone and quite another to hate cultural realities that came about due to the manipulation of an entire gender for political ends, another to hate the use of political power unfairly. Learn the difference. ok. whatever you say.
Sam Spade Posted December 22, 2009 Posted December 22, 2009 Yep, which is why meerkat is sorely underestimating the costs of certain things, very likely ignoring certain facts just to conform to his own arguments. Probably; but I agree with the general point that we are way too spoiled and spend way too much money on things that for 99% of the world are luxuries, rather than necessities. Acceptable food, shelter, and clothing is not that expensive. another problem is the incredibly screwed up US K-12 system. Local control over education and property-tax financing ensures 1) ****ty school performance and zero accountability and lack of standards and 2) overpriced and inequitable education; guess what, money are not the answer to the problems with education. The chinese kick our azzes on math proficiency tests while spending only a fraction of what we do on education.
meerkat stew Posted December 22, 2009 Posted December 22, 2009 The low ball figure for the braces is just another indicator of a person having no clear idea, not what the stats show, but what the ACTUAL COST of having custody of a child is. My daughter is in her third year of orthodontia and so far they have cost 8,000 with still no end date in sight. Sure, to her Dad - she doesnt need them so he wont split it. The statement that you have spent $8,000 on orthodontia that your ex debates the need of at all tells me all I need to know. It's pretty obvious to even a layman when someone -needs- braces for correction as opposed to when braces are mostly cosmetic. So enjoy holding up your ex to pay for your daughter's mostly -cosmetic- surgery. Are there cases requiring $8000 of purely corrective orthodontia? Absolutely. Could your daughter be one of those cases? Sure. Are they the norm? Of course not. Thus are they an example of ordinary child rearing expenses? Of course not. I mentioned braces originally because they were the only extraordinary expense required to raise me, not to turn this into a discussion of how expensive braces are, which varies wildly.
meerkat stew Posted December 22, 2009 Posted December 22, 2009 Here it's 20% of NET income for one child and add 5% for each additional child, plus the non-custodial is supposed to pay 100% insurance costs and 50% medical expenses. No other costs are factored in such as extracurricular activities, etc. so that 20% is for everything. Child care, dance lessons, soccer, camp, etc. In Texas it is not net income, but net "resources," who knows what that means? and I'm not going to spend the time finding out. Nor am I interested in consulting you or anyone else on how to raise your children more economically, or in nitpicking your expenditures (despite that I'd likely find lots of completely discretionary items), that's not my job. Wonder why the first child get's 20% and the rest get only 5% each? Maybe it's because 5% is the real expense of a child and most of the rest is actually "spouse support." If your area is expensive, move, no one is stopping you.
meerkat stew Posted December 22, 2009 Posted December 22, 2009 ok. whatever you say. College is NOT a child support issue. Don't include it as such.
theBrokenMuse Posted December 22, 2009 Posted December 22, 2009 Right . How is the physical discomfort of 9-month pregnancy and giving birth comparable to being chained to 18 years of responsibility that you did not want any part of. Seems like a much bigger violation to me. I'm sorry but there is a massive difference between the two. I'm not talking about which is WORSE, I am saying that they are not similar. I actually have had two children as well as have to watch loads of our household's income go out the door for a child that was the result of a one night stand my husband had years ago (before we met) so I am in a position to understand both sides but to even suggest that losing your rights to your body (ie. being forced to carry another living organism inside you for an extended period of time against your will) and suffering from long term monetary loss is similar in any way is just absurd.
meerkat stew Posted December 22, 2009 Posted December 22, 2009 Yep, which is why meerkat is sorely underestimating the costs of certain things, very likely ignoring certain facts just to conform to his own arguments. What "facts" am I ignoring? other than wildly variable expenses for braces, and someone's bemoaning how expensive living in an expensive suburb and paying for camp and dance lessons are, there are precious little -facts- here in this thread. Oh, other than the -fact- I posted that in a country that supposedly has no debtors prison, hundreds of thousands of men are in fact in jail for nonpayment of debts. That fact has been ignored in favor of "well I spend x," and "well x costs this."
meerkat stew Posted December 22, 2009 Posted December 22, 2009 You have debated quite a bit yet failed to either provide YOUR personal experience (oh that's right you don't have any) or relevant data to support your position. It's all supposition and ill founded opinion if you ask me. I disagree. The rest of your post is just a rambling, babbling excuse to call me a "hater." Fail.
meerkat stew Posted December 22, 2009 Posted December 22, 2009 I don't live in an expensive suburb. I live in the Houston area which has some of the cheapest housing costs in the nation. But by the time you add mortgage, insurance, taxes, water, lights, gas, my bills are over $2000 a month. If I were to rent a 3 bedroom apartment in a decent (not upscale) complex, my bills would be roughly the same. And that would be throwing money out the window. Think before you speak man and quit making assumptions. I live in a similarly situated suburb, and the -entirety- of my expenses, including mortgage, car (mtce, ins and gas), utilities, home insurance, property taxes, health insurance, food, clothing, and entertainment are under $2000 per month. Did you read the part where I specifically stated that I didn't want to become your expense consultant?
meerkat stew Posted December 22, 2009 Posted December 22, 2009 Until then, your arguments are nothing but hateful rubbish to me. As are all statements made by those who are so presumptuous as to disagree with you I am quite sure.
carhill Posted December 22, 2009 Posted December 22, 2009 This is cool.... and more in line with reasonable response than cutting off ones legally obtained credit cards... Mom's can be deadbeats too California lawyer Eudene Eunique in February was denied a passport because she was $30,000 behind in child-support. Instead of spending money on visiting her family in Mexico and on business contracts, the appeals court ruled Eunique�s money should go to her kids. The dateline was 2002, so seven years ago, and I expect enforcement and percentages to have changed in the interim, but that's a response I can get behind. Without adequate facts from the OP, we don't really know what he was assumed guilty of without any sort of trial or notice. Maybe his case will make the news too
carhill Posted December 22, 2009 Posted December 22, 2009 I'm sure someone can spend a million dollars a year raising a child, but that's not what the thread is about The OP's 'friend' had his life and liberty taken from him without due process. Imagine going into a store to buy a gift for your child and your credit card not working, then none of them working. I mean, it's like in 'Enemy of the State'. Don't look up
meerkat stew Posted December 22, 2009 Posted December 22, 2009 On Yahoo search, I typed in "average cost to raise a child in the united states" I did a Yahoo search and typed in "bigfoot," apparently there is a whole colony living within a few miles of my house. Can't wait to meet em. Then did a Yahoo search of "next week's winning lottery number," and believe it or not, it was there! I hope no one else searches for that. Did one for Elvis, then JFK. You will be pleased to know they are both alive and well!
meerkat stew Posted December 22, 2009 Posted December 22, 2009 I'm sure someone can spend a million dollars a year raising a child, but that's not what the thread is about I agree, and apologize to OP for my hand in any derailment, but you will almost never get them to discuss the actual thread topic because they just don't care... as they aren't the ones in jail, and they refuse to view the world from any position other than their self-interested one. As you've seen, if they do deign to discuss the "unimportant" issue that doesn't affect their lives directly, they will either deny it out of hand or rationalize. Fact is most of them think that "civil liberties" exist only to protect women, children and minorities from white men.
carhill Posted December 22, 2009 Posted December 22, 2009 It pays to read all my posts. I try not to repeat myself. I try to take all the facts presented, no matter how small, and work with them and obtain more facts. The story is incomplete and is one 'side' of the story. If the OP had been served in proper legal manner and chose to ignore it, well, he paid for that choice. I know it's pretty obvious when a sheriff wearing a gun shows up at your door and hands you an envelope. Remember, I got served divorce papers recently
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