SadGreenEyes Posted December 21, 2009 Posted December 21, 2009 What about the lost trust? ...I dont get it SGE
Snowflower Posted December 21, 2009 Posted December 21, 2009 This is a pretty broad question, why do you ask? Sure, some marriages do survive after an A and some marriages don't. It depends on the marriage and individuals involved.
RedDevil66 Posted December 21, 2009 Posted December 21, 2009 99% of them don't survive them. The 1% that do, these couples have a lot of work to do to get to the point of complete trust again. And when I say survive, I don't mean they end up in the relationship ending, I mean they can stay together, but the relationship is not healthy
Spark1111 Posted December 21, 2009 Posted December 21, 2009 My fWs became a new person. He pursued me to reconcile the marriage after his affair, after I threw him out and told him to go be with her, if that was the love of his life. I wanted nothing to do with him, but he never stopped trying. He became trustworthy, transparent, Ic, MC,and was willing to do all I asked of him for a very long time before I was even willing to re-committ to the relationship. He had to disclose all the sordid and humiliating details from his affair. It would have been so much easier for him to leave, and for me to let him. I have never seen anyone work so hard to make it right with NO Guarantees of a future. The bottom line: We loved each other and were both ready to do the hard work of restoring "us, only better."
norajane Posted December 21, 2009 Posted December 21, 2009 For the ones that do, it seems to force the couple to really look at what's going on in their marriage and recommit to making it work, and then doing all the hard work necessary to rebuild. Personally, I don't think I could do it. There would be too much anguish and betrayal and LIES I'd have to swallow. I don't think I could get over the fact that this person who professes to love me, deceived me deliberately every day. Just plain lied to my face to serve his own selfish purposes. And I'm just supposed to forgive that and pretend I don't know that he's really an accomplished liar who would rather deceive me than face up to any marital issues together? Who would rather screw another woman than man-up and deal with our problems? The lack of integrity and his willingness to deceive me would make it impossible for me to want to spend the "rest of my life" married to that person.
Author SadGreenEyes Posted December 21, 2009 Author Posted December 21, 2009 ...just curious - was wondering how many opinions and stories are out there on this topic. Just boggles the mind, that's all SGE
Owl Posted December 21, 2009 Posted December 21, 2009 Here's something to consider...did you, wayy back when you first met your spouse, long before you were "in love"...have complete and total trust in them at that point in time? Did you hand them your wallet/purse, your car keys, and sign a power of attorney over to them the moment your eyes met the very first time? Of course not. But, eventually you DID trust them that much, right? That's because they built that trust up over time...by repeatedly demonstrating trustworthy behavior. As time went on, they showed you more and more that they could be trusted with those things...and with your heart as well. Sometimes, they do shatter that trust by having an affair. My wife did. And did I immediately and completely just give her that full share of trust back again? Heck no. She had to EARN it back...over years of demonstrating trustworthy behavior all over again. She had to SHOW me that she understood what she had done by having the affair. She had to SHOW me that she was willing to regain my trust in her, that she had learned from what she'd done, and that she was willing to make changes to safeguard our marriage and my heart again. Guess what...she did just exactly that. I do trust her again. I don't believe that we'll get back to that point again...ever. She learned some very, very painful lessons from what we went through, just as I did. So the way that a marriage can actually recover from an affair isn't by blindly giving trust back to someone who has clearly demonstrated to you that they can't be trusted (at the time). They way to do it is to allow them to DEMONSTRATE that they learned, and that they have changed to BECOME trustworthy once again.
1Angel Posted December 21, 2009 Posted December 21, 2009 Is this a thread for general discussion or thinking aloud? I'm gently asking if you only want to hear from couples who are reconciling recovering after an affair.
Author SadGreenEyes Posted December 21, 2009 Author Posted December 21, 2009 All opinions and stories welcomed - general discussion OR thinking aloud Im not one to choose sides on the topic ...just simply curious SGE
hopeless4u Posted December 21, 2009 Posted December 21, 2009 My fWs became a new person. He pursued me to reconcile the marriage after his affair, after I threw him out and told him to go be with her, if that was the love of his life. I wanted nothing to do with him, but he never stopped trying. He became trustworthy, transparent, Ic, MC,and was willing to do all I asked of him for a very long time before I was even willing to re-committ to the relationship. He had to disclose all the sordid and humiliating details from his affair. It would have been so much easier for him to leave, and for me to let him. I have never seen anyone work so hard to make it right with NO Guarantees of a future. The bottom line: We loved each other and were both ready to do the hard work of restoring "us, only better." Do you think how your H is now is because he told you everything, the whole truth? Do you think it can work if the WH is still claiming to his W that it was just an A and not a R? and if the WH is still checking up on what the xAP is doing and feeling? I don't want to TJ so I'm going to start a new thread on my own situation but I am curious.
soserious1 Posted December 21, 2009 Posted December 21, 2009 Here's something to consider...did you, wayy back when you first met your spouse, long before you were "in love"...have complete and total trust in them at that point in time? Did you hand them your wallet/purse, your car keys, and sign a power of attorney over to them the moment your eyes met the very first time? Of course not. But, eventually you DID trust them that much, right? That's because they built that trust up over time...by repeatedly demonstrating trustworthy behavior. As time went on, they showed you more and more that they could be trusted with those things...and with your heart as well. Sometimes, they do shatter that trust by having an affair. My wife did. And did I immediately and completely just give her that full share of trust back again? Heck no. She had to EARN it back...over years of demonstrating trustworthy behavior all over again. She had to SHOW me that she understood what she had done by having the affair. She had to SHOW me that she was willing to regain my trust in her, that she had learned from what she'd done, and that she was willing to make changes to safeguard our marriage and my heart again. Guess what...she did just exactly that. I do trust her again. I don't believe that we'll get back to that point again...ever. She learned some very, very painful lessons from what we went through, just as I did. So the way that a marriage can actually recover from an affair isn't by blindly giving trust back to someone who has clearly demonstrated to you that they can't be trusted (at the time). They way to do it is to allow them to DEMONSTRATE that they learned, and that they have changed to BECOME trustworthy once again. Owl how does your wife cope with the knowledge that she will be known and remembered forever as a shameless whore by her children, both your extended families and your friends? How does she graciouslY copE with and submit to your having all power and authority in the marriage now? Does she rush to step and fetch when you snap your fingers? does she rush to see to it that your every sexual wish is immediately granted? Does she fully accept and realize that she will ALWAYS be in a one down position in the family and that this status will last till the day she dies and after?
carhill Posted December 21, 2009 Posted December 21, 2009 I see balance in Owl's marriage and in his postings over the time I've been here. In my view, he and his wife worked together to rebuild that balance of trust and fidelity which was there prior to her EA. The fundamentals of their compatibility still existed. That was not the case in my M, hence why we're divorcing, even with efforts to rebuild. The basic 'connection' still needs to be there for the work to be valuable and valued. I don't know statistics, but I've only seen a couple M's survive known (disclosed) affairs in my lifetime. Perhaps more have survived undisclosed affairs, IDK. Also, ONS is an issue, as well as the fact that some people don't consider an EA an 'affair' (I do). It comes down to people; who they are; what they believe in. Good on the ones who believed in themselves and their partners sufficiently to rebuild their partnership.
Owl Posted December 21, 2009 Posted December 21, 2009 Owl how does your wife cope with the knowledge that she will be known and remembered forever as a shameless whore by her children, both your extended families and your friends? Simple...she doesn't. Anyone stupid enough to even consider voicing an opinion like that to my face or hers would end up knocked on their butt with a quickness. Were you to make that same comment to my face in person, you'd find yourself in a similar position, without the slightest hesitation on my part. That's my wife you're talking about there, bud. She made some seriously stupid, selfish choices that hurt me and our children. She realized what she did, decided to work with me to save our marriage, and has been forgiven by myself and my kids. Anyone who can't cope with that doesn't need to be part of our lives. She's not a "shameless whore", and never will be. I'd suggest you go back and read my story rather than make assumptions on something you don't have all the facts on, my friend. How does she graciouslY copE with and submit to your having all power and authority in the marriage now? Does she rush to step and fetch when you snap your fingers? does she rush to see to it that your every sexual wish is immediately granted? Does she fully accept and realize that she will ALWAYS be in a one down position in the family and that this status will last till the day she dies and after? Not at all. Clearly you don't understand the concept of "partnership". Look it up. I can recommend a number of good books outlining some great fundamentals in how a marriage works out well between two equal partners, if you like. Had you read through my response carefully, you would have noted that SHE HAS BEEN FORGIVEN. That means that it's in the past...it's not something that she's "still paying for" in any shape, fashion, or form. It DID require a lot of effort on her part to make the reconciliation work out...a lot of effort on her part to rebuild that trust. It did require her to become an "open book" as far as her communications with others went for a long time...but at the same time, I provided the exact same access on my side...it wasn't a one way street, or a situation where she was held hostage. Not at all...her other option was to leave the marriage as she'd originally thought she was going to. I'd suggest you take your hostiility elsewhere, friend. I'm unimpressed.
norajane Posted December 21, 2009 Posted December 21, 2009 Owl, I may be getting it wrong, but your wife did not actually have a physical relationship with that guy, right? If that's correct, do you think you would have been able to forgive her and rebuild the marriage under those circumstances?
Snowflower Posted December 21, 2009 Posted December 21, 2009 (edited) What about the lost trust? ...I dont get it SGE ...just curious - was wondering how many opinions and stories are out there on this topic. Just boggles the mind, that's all SGE Well, keep in mind that lost trust isn't always the biggest issue in deciding whether to 'save' a marriage after an A--for whatever reason, trust wasn't the biggest stumbling block for me when I decided to give my husband another chance. Trust was certainly an issue but it wasn't the biggest one in my situation. I like what Owl says above about even when you first met your future spouse...you didn't automatically trust them because you didn't even know them. They had to earn your trust the first time around, too. IMO, trust can be earned and even re-earned in some instances if the person who broke the trust is willing to do what it takes to re-earn it. Edited December 21, 2009 by Snowflower grammar!
Owl Posted December 21, 2009 Posted December 21, 2009 Owl, I may be getting it wrong, but your wife did not actually have a physical relationship with that guy, right? Right on the money. She had an emotional affair, and when d-day hit was immediately set to go live with him in another state. If that's correct, do you think you would have been able to forgive her and rebuild the marriage under those circumstances? Quite probably not...especially since she was caught before it turned physical, and would have been well aware of how devestated I'd have been if she'd have gone on and been with him. In truth, I don't know if I would have been willing to try to reconcile or not had it been physical. If you'd asked me BEFORE her EA if I would have tried to reconcile even from an EA, I would have given you a "NO!" without a second thought. But in truth, it's almost impossible to know what you're going to do until you're there. I doubt I would have tried had it gone to a full blown EA/PA...but like I said...having not actually faced that choice...I don't know for sure one way or another.
norajane Posted December 21, 2009 Posted December 21, 2009 But in truth, it's almost impossible to know what you're going to do until you're there. I agree, especially when there are children, families, history together. At the same time, I think the children, the families, and the history make it that much harder to forgive and accept a spouse so ready to toss all that away for an affair.
Author SadGreenEyes Posted December 21, 2009 Author Posted December 21, 2009 PA's.... Say MM had PA & EA with OW...and years down the road he contacts same OW after staying in the marriage? Unforgivable? SGE
Owl Posted December 21, 2009 Posted December 21, 2009 I agree, especially when there are children, families, history together. At the same time, I think the children, the families, and the history make it that much harder to forgive and accept a spouse so ready to toss all that away for an affair. And that's why I don't make a huge distinction between an EA and a PA when it comes to trying to reconcile a marriage. In my case, it was "EA only"...they'd never had the chance or opportunity to actually go further...but she was ready and willing to "toss all that away" for her affair with him. EA's are just as destructive as a PA when it comes down to it. AT the end of the day...we were able to reconcile, and I've got a great marriage to prove that it CAN be done. She's not a "second class citizen" in our marriage, nor do I hold all the power. The bottomline is that we've corrected some basic mistakes that we were making, she corrrected some basic "boundary issues" that she had that contributed to the situation...and we're living a great marriage now.
Snowflower Posted December 21, 2009 Posted December 21, 2009 PA's.... Say MM had PA & EA with OW...and years down the road he contacts same OW after staying in the marriage? Unforgivable? SGE I read your other thread...it sounds like your xMM is trying to suck you back into an affair. I hope for your sake that you don't do this. You'll be hurt again. Why did you ask the initial question on this thread? It didn't seem that you were interested in anyone's responses here about trusting again in a marriage after an affair. No one here can answer for your xMM...why he stayed in his marriage or why he has contacted his OW after all these years. It will be up to your xMM wife to decide if contacting his contacting the OW (you) is unforgivable. What answer do you want from posters here on LS?
Owl Posted December 21, 2009 Posted December 21, 2009 PA's.... Say MM had PA & EA with OW...and years down the road he contacts same OW after staying in the marriage? Unforgivable? SGE EA or PA...doesn't matter. A CRITICAL part of the reconciliation is NC between WS and OW/OM...FOREVER. My wife understands this as well. She knows full well that if she were to resume ANY kind of contact with OM...our marriage would be over. I don't know that I would say "unforgiveable" or not...but...I do know that I personally would view that as a resumption of the affair. And I personally would not attempt reconciliation with a serial cheater. Again, I say this not having been there...but that's my opinion. She knows how strongly I feel on the subject of contact with OM again...and doing so would be a clear indicator that she valued contact with him over our marriage.
Owl Posted December 21, 2009 Posted December 21, 2009 SGE, my suggestion to you would be to stop concerning yourself with what's going on in his marriage...with whether or not his wife can forgive him. Instead, focus on what's in YOUR span of control. Do you want to be the reason that they COULDN'T reconcile? Do you want to end up with him because of that? Or would you rather be your own person...and remove yourself from the situation because YOU know that this is what you should do? So many OW want to focus on what's going on in the marriage...when in reality they're just dodging the reality of owning their own choices. Don't sit there and wonder what's going on in the marriage, or whether or not there's a chance he could come back to you later. Focus on doing what's right, focus on managing what's in YOUR control, rather than trying to decide on things that's outside of it.
Author SadGreenEyes Posted December 21, 2009 Author Posted December 21, 2009 Yes, ex MM did recently contact me. I dont know what his deal is nor am I sitting around waiting - been there, done that, will NOT do it again. My M didnt survive after A, where as I know some people involved in similar situations and everyone's story ends differently. I am just simply curious as to what happens in other's lives...those of you who are willing to share your stories. Im not trying to piece together why MM is doing what he's doing, but I can assure you I will NOT be roped into that mess again - uh uh...I learned my lesson....it was too painful, and I remember that hurt. I am an extremely jealous person by nature and would never be able to forgive and forget...My exH forgave me and oddly enough we remain very good friends I just wonder how other people cope SGE **fooled once - never to be fooled again**
Snowflower Posted December 21, 2009 Posted December 21, 2009 I'm sure that was disconcerting to have the xMM contact you out of the blue after all this time. I'm glad you aren't allowing yourself to be dragged back into an affair. I'm sorry that your marriage didn't survive the fallout. Like I said in my first post on your thread, sometimes marriages can survive and grow after an affair happens but other times they cannot. My marriage survived and a more accurate word 'transformed' into a wonderful, strong, enduring, loving relationship. It is possible! My H and I went through h*ll as we lost our marriage but we ultimately realized that we loved each other and wanted to be together. However, like Owl mentions, if my H were to contact his xOW after I gave him a chance to redeem himself, all bets would be off and it would be the end.
Spark1111 Posted December 21, 2009 Posted December 21, 2009 Same here. I told him if I ever discovered intentional contact, on either one of there parts, and was not informed, I'd walk. I told him if there was accidental contact and I was not informed, I'd walk. No more secrets! Ever! It would reset the recovery clock back to zero. Hell, there would not even be a recovery to talk about because I'd be walking away. So as to your xMM, what do you think his motivation is? Bored again with the wifey? Looking for an ego boost from the ex-lover? Trawling to see if you may still be interested for a little something, something on the side again? Yuck! I cannot think of one ethical, loving reason for his contacting you out of the blue after all this time? I mean really, CAN YOU?
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