I am not the enemy

[2sure]

Ive been OW and I have been BS and it is all bad but I know one thing for sure.

 

I am my own worst enemy, all stemming from having been OW in the first place. It changes you.It changes your expectations of yourself. I just dont feel like getting into it all....

 

But its not a good thing to do for yourself.

[eeyore1981]

This thread really cracks me up. Guess what. Unless a woman or a man is completely okay and completely unconcerned about their spouse having sex with someone else, (think open marriage) you are the enemy, and you are a homewrecker, and you are hurting the marriage.

 

Is a drug dealer doing right because someone wants to buy their drugs? Since selling drugs is illegal, I would guess not. I don't think it matters if you are doing it for the money or trying to get people hooked, still wrong. Screwing married people may not land you in jail, but it is still not right.

 

Have you ever been going down the interstate, and come up on road construction? Say the left lane is closed. There are signs saying 'Merge Right' miles and miles before the lane is shut down, yet there are always those people who have to fly up the left lane and cut in. This slows the right lane down to a crawl, but they don't care, because it is all about them and how important they are, while everyone else is insignificant. You do this, don't you? Go ahead, admit it, we all know you do.

 

Just something to think about. It's not always the OP who turn out to be bunnyboilers. BS's have been known to go off the deep end and exact terrible revenge, and not only on their spouse. WS's have been known to go off the deep end and kill their OP's, or their spouses. Seems like a lot of risk just to get a little sumpin, sumpin.

 

Oh, and BTW, what's wrong with single guys? Too much of a challenge?

[atlnay]

To get back to the OP: I believe that this A has already hurt you and you are trying to make the best of it and cling to your MM however you can. I'm sorry but it seems like you're deluding yourself a little bit that you can maintain a purely physical A with a man you were in love with so recently, and be happy about it. I hope you can recognize that you're just going to hurt yourself, and let go.

 

To an extent I snapped out of the "fog" which had me led purely boy emotions driven by the PA & EA.

 

Some people come here and snap out of their own fog and do NC. Some MM snap and go back to their spouse.

 

Once that clicked in my head and I viewed it the way I viewed my FWB partner from my 20's, who I started out liking and having feelings for but we weren't on the same page relationship wise. Still having sexual needs from time to time & while I was between men, I'd call him and vice versa. Once I removed my feelings of a future with him, we were able to have fun AND I managed to date. When things got serious with the new guy, my FWB & I parted ways, no big to do.

 

I'm not in a "hopeful" place with this guy. Very far from it. And my questioning nature of minor things truly isn't a way to read anything more into this situation, as it is to understand a behavior.

[gopher]

Some people come here and snap out of their own fog and do NC. Some MM snap and go back to their spouse.

 

.

 

This!....OW's have a hard time accepting this response....the guy must be weak or the W has some kind of bizarre hold on him. Sometimes, it's just a change of heart.

[skylarblue]

Originally Posted by FilthMerchant

skylarblue - a triangular relationship is dysfunctional, in the case you describe, and children who grow up in dysfunctional relationships grow up damaged and continue the cycle of dysfunctional relationships. Either way you are stirring resentment and toxicity, not an environment for children to be raised in

I am guessing you will just try and find another way to rationalise it

 

You are wrong in your assumption that I need to rationalize anything. I don’t. I don’t feel any guilt over having an A with a MM so I have no need for justifications. I’m fine admitting an A is hurtful and wrong and I’m fine with being a party to one. That being said…People always want to say a M is already troubled or broken before an A takes place so I have a little bit of a problem when people assert that a triangular relationship is dysfunctional as if the M couldn’t already have been.

 

Originally Posted by moaningmyrtle

I think it's irrelevant whether or not the OW wants a more marriage-like relationship with the MM or even if she doesn't want the MM to leave his wife. The fact is that revelations of an A causes immense distress to a BW and may well cause her to decide to break up the M because of the betrayal. I know that day after day, from d-day, I wished for a passive death to just befall me.

Whether or not an OW has ill-feelings for the BW is also irrelevant. Simply put; OW are the enemies of the wives of the MM and their marriages.

 

I think it is relevant whether the OW wants a R with the MM or not simply because the OW that doesn’t isn’t a threat the to the M. An A only causes immense distress to a BW and may well cause her to decide to break up the M if it is revealed. The OW who doesn’t want a R never wants the A to be revealed, therefore, never really causing any distress or break-up. I mean, if a MM has an A for 20years and the W never has a clue, the M isn’t changed because of it, and for the whole 20years she is has been happy with her M what was the harm of the A. None. There’s no need to expose a non-threatening A. Everyone can still be happy. I can understand that I’m (as an OW) viewed as the enemies of the wives of the MM and their marriages, but I am not a “rival” nor do I have or wish to bring ill intentions to the BW.

[bentnotbroken]

Originally Posted by FilthMerchant

skylarblue - a triangular relationship is dysfunctional, in the case you describe, and children who grow up in dysfunctional relationships grow up damaged and continue the cycle of dysfunctional relationships. Either way you are stirring resentment and toxicity, not an environment for children to be raised in

I am guessing you will just try and find another way to rationalise it

 

You are wrong in your assumption that I need to rationalize anything. I don’t. I don’t feel any guilt over having an A with a MM so I have no need for justifications. I’m fine admitting an A is hurtful and wrong and I’m fine with being a party to one. That being said…People always want to say a M is already troubled or broken before an A takes place so I have a little bit of a problem when people assert that a triangular relationship is dysfunctional as if the M couldn’t already have been.

 

Originally Posted by moaningmyrtle

I think it's irrelevant whether or not the OW wants a more marriage-like relationship with the MM or even if she doesn't want the MM to leave his wife. The fact is that revelations of an A causes immense distress to a BW and may well cause her to decide to break up the M because of the betrayal. I know that day after day, from d-day, I wished for a passive death to just befall me.

Whether or not an OW has ill-feelings for the BW is also irrelevant. Simply put; OW are the enemies of the wives of the MM and their marriages.

 

I think it is relevant whether the OW wants a R with the MM or not simply because the OW that doesn’t isn’t a threat the to the M. An A only causes immense distress to a BW and may well cause her to decide to break up the M if it is revealed. The OW who doesn’t want a R never wants the A to be revealed, therefore, never really causing any distress or break-up. I mean, if a MM has an A for 20years and the W never has a clue, the M isn’t changed because of it, and for the whole 20years she is has been happy with her M what was the harm of the A. None. There’s no need to expose a non-threatening A. Everyone can still be happy. I can understand that I’m (as an OW) viewed as the enemies of the wives of the MM and their marriages, but I am not a “rival” nor do I have or wish to bring ill intentions to the BW.

 

 

Rival and enemy, not the same thing.

[howcouldInotknow]

In my opinion rival is probably a better word than enemy. The enemy to a BS marriage is their cheating spouse. He is the one that is stabbing her in the back, betraying her trust, and lying to her. That is her enemy. Whether BS like to think of it this way or not if your spouse is cheating your marriage was triangulated before there was even sex outside of the marriage. Dont get me wrong their is nothing wrong with looking but in your marriage is busted wide open when they begin to pursue the OW.

[bentnotbroken]

In my opinion rival is probably a better word than enemy. The enemy to a BS marriage is their cheating spouse. He is the one that is stabbing her in the back, betraying her trust, and lying to her. That is her enemy. Whether BS like to think of it this way or not if your spouse is cheating your marriage was triangulated before there was even sex outside of the marriage. Dont get me wrong their is nothing wrong with looking but in your marriage is busted wide open when they begin to pursue the OW.

 

 

Rival, enemy, whatever makes one feel better. Neither word suits me, but I am not the AP so I am not looking for a label to define them.

[skylarblue]

Originally Posted by Stung

Out of curiousity, Skylar, I have to ask: I am almost sure I recall a thread recently where you admitted you have been having completely unprotected sex with your MM in an effort to feel better than his wife, with the full knowledge that you might (probably will) end up pregnant, and vaguely thinking you'll have an abortion when/if that comes to pass. Was this not you? How do you reconcile this with the above statement?

Call me crazy but I think almost any wife would consider an OW who is not only having sex with her husband but having unprotected sex, trying to be better than the wife, and ready to get impregnated by her husband and create a WORLD of drama to be a very, very serious enemy of the marriage.

 

Whoa, you are minutely correct and only in having completely unprotected sex with [my] MM with the full knowledge that might end up pregnant, and thinking [i'll] have an abortion when/if that comes to pass. Never did I say it was in effort of trying to be better than the wife and you’re taking what I did say out of context. Never did I say I was ready to get impregnated by her husband and I have valiantly expressed my want for it to not happen and the life-changing havoc it would cause. There’s nothing that I find contradictory about my statement.

[FilthMerchant]

Originally Posted by FilthMerchant

skylarblue - a triangular relationship is dysfunctional, in the case you describe, and children who grow up in dysfunctional relationships grow up damaged and continue the cycle of dysfunctional relationships. Either way you are stirring resentment and toxicity, not an environment for children to be raised in

I am guessing you will just try and find another way to rationalise it

 

You are wrong in your assumption that I need to rationalize anything. I don’t. I don’t feel any guilt over having an A with a MM so I have no need for justifications. I’m fine admitting an A is hurtful and wrong and I’m fine with being a party to one. That being said…People always want to say a M is already troubled or broken before an A takes place so I have a little bit of a problem when people assert that a triangular relationship is dysfunctional as if the M couldn’t already have been.

 

I agree with you saying that the blame is not on you for the affair or the state of the marriage. You sounded like you are trying to say that the affair doesn't damage the marriage - that is what I responded to. Also why does everyone around here keep abbreviating these words as if they are curses or something?

[Trimmer]

I think it is relevant whether the OW wants a R with the MM or not simply because the OW that doesn’t isn’t a threat the to the M. An A only causes immense distress to a BW and may well cause her to decide to break up the M if it is revealed. The OW who doesn’t want a R never wants the A to be revealed, therefore, never really causing any distress or break-up. I mean, if a MM has an A for 20years and the W never has a clue, the M isn’t changed because of it, and for the whole 20years she is has been happy with her M what was the harm of the A. None. There’s no need to expose a non-threatening A. Everyone can still be happy. I can understand that I’m (as an OW) viewed as the enemies of the wives of the MM and their marriages, but I am not a “rival” nor do I have or wish to bring ill intentions to the BW.

 

Out of curiosity, what would you think of an accountant, skimming money from his employer for 20 years? Assuming he does it carefully and quietly, just enough so it's no "threat" to the company's survival, the company doesn't really outwardly notice the loss of resources - over time, the company just kind of gets used to making do with less. To paraphrase in your own terms, it seems like this would only cause anyone distress if it is revealed, eh? The accountant never wants it to be revealed, therefore, never really causing any distress or investigation. I mean, if an accountant steals money for 20 years and the company never has a clue, the company isn't changed because of it, and for the whole 20 years, they are happy with their operations, what was the harm of the stealing? None. There's no need to expose non-threatening extortion. Everyone can still be happy.

 

Would you still say: I’m fine admitting [it] is hurtful and wrong and I’m fine with being a party to [it]?

 

In other words, if there's an unknowing party being betrayed, then as long as they don't know about it, as long as the betrayal isn't revealed to them, then I'm fine with benefitting from the redirection of attention, resources, etc., is that it? As long as they don't perceive the damage, then no worries?

[Stung]

Originally Posted by Stung

Out of curiousity, Skylar, I have to ask: I am almost sure I recall a thread recently where you admitted you have been having completely unprotected sex with your MM in an effort to feel better than his wife, with the full knowledge that you might (probably will) end up pregnant, and vaguely thinking you'll have an abortion when/if that comes to pass. Was this not you? How do you reconcile this with the above statement?

Call me crazy but I think almost any wife would consider an OW who is not only having sex with her husband but having unprotected sex, trying to be better than the wife, and ready to get impregnated by her husband and create a WORLD of drama to be a very, very serious enemy of the marriage.

 

Whoa, you are minutely correct and only in having completely unprotected sex with [my] MM with the full knowledge that might end up pregnant, and thinking [i'll] have an abortion when/if that comes to pass. Never did I say it was in effort of trying to be better than the wife and you’re taking what I did say out of context. Never did I say I was ready to get impregnated by her husband and I have valiantly expressed my want for it to not happen and the life-changing havoc it would cause. There’s nothing that I find contradictory about my statement.

 

 

Direct quotes from the thread:

 

Just reading I’m pregnant by a married man what should I do has me all nervous inside. My MM and I take the risk every month. We’ve never used protection and recently no restraint when it’s “safe”. Every time and month I think “what the hell am I thinking/doing?” MM and I have never discussed the “what ifs”. I have absolutely no doubt that he would want me to get an abortion. And I know I would have no choice but to. I could never raise a child alone or by a MM man. I couldn’t even ever let anyone know I was pregnant. But then I could have never seen myself having an abortion either (not that I’m against it, everyone should make their own choice). I just know I’d be tormented over the fact that I aborted my own innocent baby. I’m so scared how it would affect me emotionally/mentally. If I was in your position I would be an absolutely wreck.

 

And, in response to a poster asking you why you would take such a risk:

 

Honestly…Rationally, I have no idea. It makes no sense. My life would be a nightmare. Realistically, I think it’s because it makes me feel as “special” and more “important” than his W (yes I know this is not the case in reality).

 

 

 

Skylar, I'm assuming you and I see the world rather differently, and you might disagree strongly with my interpretation of your above quotes. To me, that reads like a woman who feels herself very strongly in competition with the wife (wanting to feel as 'special' as and 'more important than'), and is a very active threat to the marriage.

 

I am not necessarily suggesting that you are consciously intending to be impregnated, but you are clearly intelligent enough to realize that you are no passive victim if/when you do get pregnant, rather you are actively taking steps toward getting pregnant every single time you have unprotected sex with this man regardless of time of month etc. Yet you are admittedly extremely conflicted about the outcome. If you really find yourself pregnant, would you honestly be able to abort? If not, his wife will find her world rocked by scandal and her marriage torn apart by betrayal AND a paternity suit. Even if you do follow your current plan and abort, even if she never finds out, you will have succeeded in diverting a metric ton of his mental energy away from his home and his wife, and ensured that he never forgets you, even if he dumps you on that very day and never sees or hears from you again. Who knows what problems this is likely to cause in the marriage?

 

ANY outcome of this behavior will only come at great cost to yourself, however, as is clear from the high level of anxiety you are already experiencing at the thought of either aborting a fetus or becoming a single mother, yet you continue. This leads me to think you're either subconsciously desperate to have this man's baby, rather delusionally supposing it will cement your romantic relationship to him...or your self-esteem is in dire need of repair, and you are sabotaging your life.

 

TBH, it makes me sad for you and for his wife. I think you need to pull away from this man who is making you twist yourself into an ethical and emotional pretzel, and consider IC.

 

Anyway. I like Trimmer's embezzlement analogy. I believe every affair steals time, dedication, and energy from a marriage, and makes the couple less likely to deal with their problems rationally and maturely. I can't see how adding these kinds of pregnancy-scare shenanigans on top of that could possibly NOT be a threat to the marriage. JMO.

[Trimmer]

...Trimmer's embezzlement analogy....

Dang it! I was straining, and I just couldn't come up with that word - the best I could come up with was "extortion", but I knew it wasn't right even as I posted it...

[Shouldacouldawoulda]

FilthMerchant - I think the abbreviations are simply because the same words are used so often that it's a way to save time. I don't think anyone here feels that the words are "curse" words, and it seems everyone is pretty matter of fact about affairs, being the other man/other woman, etc.

[skylarblue]

Originally Posted by Trimmer

Out of curiosity, what would you think of an accountant, skimming money from his employer for 20 years?... I mean, if an accountant steals money for 20 years and the company never has a clue, the company isn't changed because of it, and for the whole 20 years, they are happy with their operations, what was the harm of the stealing? None. There's no need to expose non-threatening extortion. Everyone can still be happy.

Would you still say: I’m fine admitting [it] is hurtful and wrong and I’m fine with being a party to [it]?

 

Apples and oranges. You can’t compare the two. One is a criminal act and other is not.

[skylarblue]

Originally Posted by Stung

Skylar, I'm assuming you and I see the world rather differently, and you might disagree strongly with my interpretation of your above quotes. To me, that reads like a woman who feels herself very strongly in competition with the wife (wanting to feel as 'special' as and 'more important than'), and is a very active threat to the marriage…This leads me to think you're either subconsciously desperate to have this man's baby, rather delusionally supposing it will cement your romantic relationship to him...or your self-esteem is in dire need of repair, and you are sabotaging your life…I believe every affair steals time, dedication, and energy from a marriage, and makes the couple less likely to deal with their problems rationally and maturely. I can't see how adding these kinds of pregnancy-scare shenanigans on top of that could possibly NOT be a threat to the marriage. JMO.

 

I was aware of the post you were referring to just from mention and I do disagree with your interpretation simply because I know my A is only an “idea” to me and I’m aware my thoughts aren’t reality. However, I do change my position and agree I am a threat to his M. I was looking at it as I’m not taking purposeful, active steps to make him leave his W. So I didn’t view my presence as a threat simply because I had no intention of persuading him to leave. I was not looking at it through the view that every affair steals time, dedication, and energy from a marriage, and makes the couple less likely to deal with their problems rationally and maturely, but I have to say I think you are right. Lately, I have been wondering if my presence is causing the dynamics of his M to change or am I just reading too much into some of the things going on. Since my MM is not in love with me I would have and did always assume that his M would be virtually unchanged even after years. Now, I’m just not so sure that is the case… And sadly you are right in saying or your self-esteem is in dire need of repair, and you are sabotaging your life. I need/use his M to convince/prove myself of my own self-worth and importance hence mentally wanting to feel as 'special' as and 'more important than' his W.

[Baroness67]

Plain truth, if you are involved with a MM/MW, you are not helping anything. How does this end well?

 

You might not be the enemy, but you are not my friend. You might make my husband believe you are his "friend", but you are not my friend, or a friend to my children.

 

Just another example ... let's take "swinging" ... how can it hurt anyone if both spouses are on board with it ... just lots of fun, right, keeping the spark alive, having hot fun on the weekends watching your man with another woman, watching your woman with another man? All consensual, right? Just satisfying urges, right?

 

If it's so wonderful, why so secret? Why the sneaking around and keeping what you are doing from other people?

 

Because it's cheap and selfish.

 

If it's so harmless and you aren't the enemy, just get it out in the open ... stop sneaking around. Just call the house and tell the wife you'd like to speak to your boyfriend. Tell the kids.

 

Because it's not wrong, right? I'm sure there's a way you could explain to the wife that you aren't really hurting anything.

[jennie-jennie]

Lizzie, how come you seem to always say the wife has withheld sex? How do you know this? Are you there when sex is discussed in their home? Why do you constantly blame the wife for withholding sex or not giving it up frequently enough for the man? Is this because the cheater has told you this?

 

Maybe the wife doesn't like sex with him because he sucks at it? Maybe he isn't adventureous enough for her? Maybe his idea of foreplay is him squeezing her boobs and saying "let's go"? Maybe they have deeper marital issues and as many women know, sex is more emotional for us. We can't just turn it on because a guy gets horny?

 

I just don't understand why it is seems to always be the wife's fault the husband cheats?

 

When two people who both have been starved for sex by their partners get together, you notice what has been going on with the other. When your partner rejoices in somebody finally desiring him sexually, you can draw the conclusion that something was missing in the marital home. You can tell a lot by your partner's behavior, not all is said with words.

[OWoman]

If it's so wonderful, why so secret? Why the sneaking around and keeping what you are doing from other people?

 

Out of concern for other people's narrow-minded responses?

 

Our A was not secret - and met with no disapproval. But neither of us lived in the US, where the mindset is apparently quite different. I can understand people who live in that kind of climate of fear feeling the need to keep things like that quiet - a bit like a woman from a traditionalist area in Pakistan needing to keep her love for a man from a different school of Islam hidden from her family. People have lives, careers, families, etc that they need to protect from the bigoted reactions of others.