"One of the guys."

[Strych9]

Hello forum, I have come to spill my guts on the table in pursuit of some good advice and or insight into my problem. I'll do my best to keep it short and sweet, without giving a life story but enough to lend some insight to my situation.

 

I'm a 24 year old woman, graphic design student, standing in at a whopping 5'3" and 106 pounds, petite build and considered attractive (not Hollywood bimbo attractive). For as long as I can remember, I've been genuinely more interested in what is widely considered "guy stuff". This includes fishing, building, working with my hands and so on. To this day, I find myself having more "hobbies" in common with men. I've been playing guitar for 12 years, most people are surprised to see little old me play technical death metal, but there's a thrill being the underdog. Like my male friends, I built my own computer, so I can write and produce my own music for my own pleasure, modified my own BMX bike and have more tools than your daddy.

 

Here is where the problem comes in, I am still seen as masculine! Everything I work so hard at only seems to interfeer with my love life. It's easy for someone out there to simply say "They're just threatened." but it seems a tad cut and dry don't you think? Just like how people toss the word jealousy around because it's so damn easy. Sure, I may not be like most women out there (I realize I might have more in common with some out there, but where are they??) but I'm not ready to HIDE the things I've worked hard becoming good at, just so some man can feel grossly superior in countless ways. I feel great being a woman, I'm a freelance makeup artist and love the **** out of shoes, but if I'm not seen as the stereotypical shopaholic woman, the odds of someone being attracted to anything other is significantly less.

 

No, I'm far from some run of the mill Prada wearing cunt that spends countless bucks to "look hot", who's nonexistent personality is just as deep as the puddle in my driveway...and this is the pinacle of femininity? These are the women who want the big diamond ring on her manicured finger, while her hubby slaves away so she can depend on someone else to live. Is this really what you want, guys?

 

Give it to me straight, I thought guys WANTED something challenging, not some obedient girl with a pretty face and not much else.

[b52s]

Hello forum, I have come to spill my guts on the table in pursuit of some good advice and or insight into my problem. I'll do my best to keep it short and sweet, without giving a life story but enough to lend some insight to my situation.

 

I'm a 24 year old woman, graphic design student, standing in at a whopping 5'3" and 106 pounds, petite build and considered attractive (not Hollywood bimbo attractive). For as long as I can remember, I've been genuinely more interested in what is widely considered "guy stuff". This includes fishing, building, working with my hands and so on. To this day, I find myself having more "hobbies" in common with men. I've been playing guitar for 12 years, most people are surprised to see little old me play technical death metal, but there's a thrill being the underdog. Like my male friends, I built my own computer, so I can write and produce my own music for my own pleasure, modified my own BMX bike and have more tools than your daddy.

 

Here is where the problem comes in, I am still seen as masculine! Everything I work so hard at only seems to interfeer with my love life. It's easy for someone out there to simply say "They're just threatened." but it seems a tad cut and dry don't you think? Just like how people toss the word jealousy around because it's so damn easy. Sure, I may not be like most women out there (I realize I might have more in common with some out there, but where are they??) but I'm not ready to HIDE the things I've worked hard becoming good at, just so some man can feel grossly superior in countless ways. I feel great being a woman, I'm a freelance makeup artist and love the **** out of shoes, but if I'm not seen as the stereotypical shopaholic woman, the odds of someone being attracted to anything other is significantly less.

 

No, I'm far from some run of the mill Prada wearing cunt that spends countless bucks to "look hot", who's nonexistent personality is just as deep as the puddle in my driveway...and this is the pinacle of femininity? These are the women who want the big diamond ring on her manicured finger, while her hubby slaves away so she can depend on someone else to live. Is this really what you want, guys?

 

Give it to me straight, I thought guys WANTED something challenging, not some obedient girl with a pretty face and not much else.

 

You can start by not using the "C" word in every conversation.....kind of a turn off for a guy who swears on occasion, but man, that's a filthy word...esp when you hear it come from a woman. LOL

 

That's typically a swear word that women can't stand to hear.

[FilthMerchant]

Many men are fine with you doing whatever the hell you want as long as you don't and aren't:

 

Relegate them to a lesser status in the relationship/impose yourselves over them

Just self-absorbed

 

When a woman says 'oh he just can't handle me/is intimidated/is threatened' it is because the 'he' in question has identified in her one of the above two.

 

Edit: oh and jealousy of other women is always a turn-off and you REEK of it. I can imagine you in an argument 'I caught you looking at that blond average bimbo! you want me to be a blond average bimbo! your just gonna run off with a blond average bimbo!'

Edited December 21, 2009 by FilthMerchant

[Woggle]

Any woman that claims men are intimidated by her ususally does smething to turn men off. Men do not want to end up marrying the wrong woman because if we do it can make our lives miserable. What do you have to offer a man?

[Strych9]

You can start by not using the "C" word in every conversation.....kind of a turn off for a guy who swears on occasion, but man, that's a filthy word...esp when you hear it come from a woman. LOL

 

That's typically a swear word that women can't stand to hear.

 

 

Yes, it is a filthy word, I suppose finding the humour in it can't justify the usage.

[Knossos]

Nothing to add except I understand your situation. I'm one of the "not-girls" girls myself. It gets you into trouble and brings misery with every so-called encounter. I wish I could say it gets easier as you get older, but it doesn't. Ultimately, men want women who are easily identifiable as women, not just physically but also when it comes to personality. Nope, boobs aren't enough, you also need clear stereotypical characteristics that scream "GIRLIE!" just so no one gets confused about who the guy is dating. Because if you aren't wearing stilettos and tons of makeup and giggling every five minutes and tossing your hair until you get whiplash, then you obviously must be a chick with a stick .

[Strych9]

Many men are fine with you doing whatever the hell you want as long as you don't and aren't:

 

Relegate them to a lesser status in the relationship/impose yourselves over them

Just self-absorbed

 

When a woman says 'oh he just can't handle me/is intimidated/is threatened' it is because the 'he' in question has identified in her one of the above two.

 

Edit: oh and jealousy of other women is always a turn-off and you REEK of it. I can imagine you in an argument 'I caught you looking at that blond average bimbo! you want me to be a blond average bimbo! your just gonna run off with a blond average bimbo!'

 

If my syntax came off that way, that was my wrong doing. In a weird twisted way, I AM jealous of any girl that never had to lift a finger, but that fades rather fast. And it's safe to say women know their man will look at other women, is the ocean wet?

 

Is it self absorbed for a woman to spend time on things she's good at? I don't quite understand what you're getting at, but I am intrigued if you could elaborate a bit.

[FilthMerchant]

Knossos you just sound bitter. Look at your situation dispassionately:

 

Every man you go for rejects you.

The average woman does not get rejected every time

The average men does not reject everyone

 

Rather than blame the world, why don't we look at who is really affecting this process?

 

Here's another thing for the two of you to consider: in a relationship, each gender has separate roles. Don't try to take the opposite gender's role - moralise all you want about it but it never works. Ever.

[FilthMerchant]

If my syntax came off that way, that was my wrong doing. In a weird twisted way, I AM jealous of any girl that never had to lift a finger, but that fades rather fast. And it's safe to say women know their man will look at other women, is the ocean wet?

 

Is it self absorbed for a woman to spend time on things she's good at? I don't quite understand what you're getting at, but I am intrigued if you could elaborate a bit.

 

I'm not saying you are self-absorbed because of what you do. There is a missing factor in this equation. None of the characteristics you have described would hand you the romantic failure you are experiencing.

 

You still sound like you're asking 'what is it about men that makes them not like me'. You describe yourself and say 'what is it about men that makes them dislike these things'. You sound like you're trying to rationalise the way you are rather than confront it...

 

I think you would be better off telling us about specific experiences, relationships, dates, and what men say to you and how they treat you in general (including non-romantic interests like family, friends and coworkers).

[Strych9]

I'm not saying you are self-absorbed because of what you do. There is a missing factor in this equation. None of the characteristics you have described would hand you the romantic failure you are experiencing.

 

You still sound like you're asking 'what is it about men that makes them not like me'. You describe yourself and say 'what is it about men that makes them dislike these things'. You sound like you're trying to rationalise the way you are rather than confront it...

 

I think you would be better off telling us about specific experiences, relationships, dates, and what men say to you and how they treat you in general (including non-romantic interests like family, friends and coworkers).

 

 

It's funny you bring up how I am treated by others, and it's not as well as I would like..even on the sidelines just observing others, I noticed a significant difference in the way the woman was treated by the man, always seemed much sweeter than my own reality, but the grass is always greener right? It felt like watching something that was surreal, he seemed ready and willing to do just about everything for her. Whether I portray someone who's too self reliant for chivalry or any nice gesture is unknown, and unintentional. I would like to confront what it is about myself that makes men see me as less of a woman.

[sally4sara]

Hello forum, I have come to spill my guts on the table in pursuit of some good advice and or insight into my problem. I'll do my best to keep it short and sweet, without giving a life story but enough to lend some insight to my situation.

 

I'm a 24 year old woman, graphic design student, standing in at a whopping 5'3" and 106 pounds, petite build and considered attractive (not Hollywood bimbo attractive). For as long as I can remember, I've been genuinely more interested in what is widely considered "guy stuff". This includes fishing, building, working with my hands and so on. To this day, I find myself having more "hobbies" in common with men. I've been playing guitar for 12 years, most people are surprised to see little old me play technical death metal, but there's a thrill being the underdog. Like my male friends, I built my own computer, so I can write and produce my own music for my own pleasure, modified my own BMX bike and have more tools than your daddy.

 

Here is where the problem comes in, I am still seen as masculine! Everything I work so hard at only seems to interfeer with my love life. It's easy for someone out there to simply say "They're just threatened." but it seems a tad cut and dry don't you think? Just like how people toss the word jealousy around because it's so damn easy. Sure, I may not be like most women out there (I realize I might have more in common with some out there, but where are they??) but I'm not ready to HIDE the things I've worked hard becoming good at, just so some man can feel grossly superior in countless ways. I feel great being a woman, I'm a freelance makeup artist and love the **** out of shoes, but if I'm not seen as the stereotypical shopaholic woman, the odds of someone being attracted to anything other is significantly less.

 

No, I'm far from some run of the mill Prada wearing cunt that spends countless bucks to "look hot", who's nonexistent personality is just as deep as the puddle in my driveway...and this is the pinacle of femininity? These are the women who want the big diamond ring on her manicured finger, while her hubby slaves away so she can depend on someone else to live. Is this really what you want, guys?

 

Give it to me straight, I thought guys WANTED something challenging, not some obedient girl with a pretty face and not much else.

 

That is a toughie because other than the guitar playing in a band and loving shoes part, we have tons in common. If that is you in the avatar, you're pretty and apparently multi-skilled.

But you say you struggle in your dating life.....perhaps if you defined this I'd identify better. Do you mean you have trouble keeping one or trouble getting a guy's attention on you romantically? You're pretty enough that you probably get noticed quite often so I doubt it is the latter. Do they show interest and then it peters out after a date or two or some time getting to know you?

Things it could be:

Do you act like you've got something to prove all the time (anything you can do, I can do better?)

While comparing yourself to more girlie girls with them as the negative "bimbo" often while still expecting your date to pay for your meal?

Do you never ever like being feminine? Dresses and such? Show a modest amount of skin? Or do you over compensate with tons of makeup and hooker garb doused in VS body spray and overtly aggressive sexual advances? Cause the latter would def scare boys your age!

[espec10001]

Don't change anything! You are an interesting girl with substance. Most chicks don't have that. I'm surprised you haven't had better luck because you have so many hobbies that meeting a guy with the same hobbies should be easy for you.

 

Be glad you aren't another run of the mill chick with no hobbies. Vapid females might look good, but besides their looks there is nothing there. Don't change, be who you are!

 

I love girls with substance. The ones who don't challenge are boring.

[Strych9]

That is a toughie because other than the guitar playing in a band and loving shoes part, we have tons in common. If that is you in the avatar, you're pretty and apparently multi-skilled.

But you say you struggle in your dating life.....perhaps if you defined this I'd identify better. Do you mean you have trouble keeping one or trouble getting a guy's attention on you romantically? You're pretty enough that you probably get noticed quite often so I doubt it is the latter. Do they show interest and then it peters out after a date or two or some time getting to know you?

Things it could be:

Do you act like you've got something to prove all the time (anything you can do, I can do better?)

While comparing yourself to more girlie girls with them as the negative "bimbo" often while still expecting your date to pay for your meal?

Do you never ever like being feminine? Dresses and such? Show a modest amount of skin? Or do you over compensate with tons of makeup and hooker garb doused in VS body spray and overtly aggressive sexual advances? Cause the latter would def scare boys your age!

 

The dating part hasn't been so nice, perhaps I give off the one of the bro's vibe without intention, and they just don't see what I am as attractive. Not every guy will like me, that's a given, but there's a pattern here I can't figure out. One guy I dated seemed to really dig the things I kept myself busy with, but it took him a while to get it all out of me, I don't want to come across as bragging but it's one of those things that make me feel accomplished, even in the isolation of my room while doing them. We didn't date afterwards, but we still talk here and there. He is now dating a girl that is the OPPOSITE of everything he claimed to seek in a woman. I'm not a competitive person, am a big fan of going dutch on meals, wear dresses when the weather permits, high heels show a little skin but leave more to the imagination. Sometimes I've wondered if guys see me as a nice lass on the outside and some butch on the inside. lol

[thatguy85]

Hello forum, I have come to spill my guts on the table in pursuit of some good advice and or insight into my problem. I'll do my best to keep it short and sweet, without giving a life story but enough to lend some insight to my situation.

 

I'm a 24 year old woman, graphic design student, standing in at a whopping 5'3" and 106 pounds, petite build and considered attractive (not Hollywood bimbo attractive). For as long as I can remember, I've been genuinely more interested in what is widely considered "guy stuff". This includes fishing, building, working with my hands and so on. To this day, I find myself having more "hobbies" in common with men. I've been playing guitar for 12 years, most people are surprised to see little old me play technical death metal, but there's a thrill being the underdog. Like my male friends, I built my own computer, so I can write and produce my own music for my own pleasure, modified my own BMX bike and have more tools than your daddy.

 

Here is where the problem comes in, I am still seen as masculine! Everything I work so hard at only seems to interfeer with my love life. It's easy for someone out there to simply say "They're just threatened." but it seems a tad cut and dry don't you think? Just like how people toss the word jealousy around because it's so damn easy. Sure, I may not be like most women out there (I realize I might have more in common with some out there, but where are they??) but I'm not ready to HIDE the things I've worked hard becoming good at, just so some man can feel grossly superior in countless ways. I feel great being a woman, I'm a freelance makeup artist and love the **** out of shoes, but if I'm not seen as the stereotypical shopaholic woman, the odds of someone being attracted to anything other is significantly less.

 

No, I'm far from some run of the mill Prada wearing cunt that spends countless bucks to "look hot", who's nonexistent personality is just as deep as the puddle in my driveway...and this is the pinacle of femininity? These are the women who want the big diamond ring on her manicured finger, while her hubby slaves away so she can depend on someone else to live. Is this really what you want, guys?

 

Give it to me straight, I thought guys WANTED something challenging, not some obedient girl with a pretty face and not much else.

 

I love you.

[Strych9]

I love you.

Doesn't help me get a god damn date! lol

[thatguy85]

Doesn't help me get a god damn date! lol

 

 

It could if you played your cards right and shot me a PM.

[sally4sara]

The dating part hasn't been so nice, perhaps I give off the one of the bro's vibe without intention, and they just don't see what I am as attractive. Not every guy will like me, that's a given, but there's a pattern here I can't figure out. One guy I dated seemed to really dig the things I kept myself busy with, but it took him a while to get it all out of me, I don't want to come across as bragging but it's one of those things that make me feel accomplished, even in the isolation of my room while doing them. We didn't date afterwards, but we still talk here and there. He is now dating a girl that is the OPPOSITE of everything he claimed to seek in a woman. I'm not a competitive person, am a big fan of going dutch on meals, wear dresses when the weather permits, high heels show a little skin but leave more to the imagination. Sometimes I've wondered if guys see me as a nice lass on the outside and some butch on the inside. lol

 

It sounds like you're doing it all good. And no, no matter if you're covered in bike grease - they don't see you as a "bro". I learned that lesson! You also have to remember that guys don't always do what they say they want to do or like what they say they're looking for. Our early 20s is the time for self exploration and its likely THEY don't know what they want yet.

The only traditional ploy I've ever used is cooking; the old saying about through their stomach is true! And cooking is another great skill to have for anyone.

But I absolutely don't think you should stop having the interests you have even if it does intimidate a few guys. The ones who get intimidated are not worth their salt IMO. Just don't ham it up when one of them isn't as skilled at one or your "manly" interests as you are. It can seem like you're creating a conflict just to ridicule them. This can be the vibe in any pursuit between any two people regardless of gender.

[espec10001]

Doesn't help me get a god damn date! lol

 

Try being more aggresive. Some guys like aggressive girls, it turns them on.

[Strych9]

It sounds like you're doing it all good. And no, no matter if you're covered in bike grease - they don't see you as a "bro". I learned that lesson! You also have to remember that guys don't always do what they say they want to do or like what they say they're looking for. Our early 20s is the time for self exploration and its likely THEY don't know what they want yet.

The only traditional ploy I've ever used is cooking; the old saying about through their stomach is true! And cooking is another great skill to have for anyone.

But I absolutely don't think you should stop having the interests you have even if it does intimidate a few guys. The ones who get intimidated are not worth their salt IMO. Just don't ham it up when one of them isn't as skilled at one or your "manly" interests as you are. It can seem like you're creating a conflict just to ridicule them. This can be the vibe in any pursuit between any two people regardless of gender.

 

 

I will gladly take your suggestion. There's no way I'll stop doing my things, I just wish it wasn't such a turn off. Maybe I'll practice the cooking and mention that first next time.

[phineas]

Hello forum, I have come to spill my guts on the table in pursuit of some good advice and or insight into my problem. I'll do my best to keep it short and sweet, without giving a life story but enough to lend some insight to my situation.

 

I'm a 24 year old woman, graphic design student, standing in at a whopping 5'3" and 106 pounds, petite build and considered attractive (not Hollywood bimbo attractive). For as long as I can remember, I've been genuinely more interested in what is widely considered "guy stuff". This includes fishing, building, working with my hands and so on. To this day, I find myself having more "hobbies" in common with men. I've been playing guitar for 12 years, most people are surprised to see little old me play technical death metal, but there's a thrill being the underdog. Like my male friends, I built my own computer, so I can write and produce my own music for my own pleasure, modified my own BMX bike and have more tools than your daddy.

 

Here is where the problem comes in, I am still seen as masculine! Everything I work so hard at only seems to interfeer with my love life. It's easy for someone out there to simply say "They're just threatened." but it seems a tad cut and dry don't you think? Just like how people toss the word jealousy around because it's so damn easy. Sure, I may not be like most women out there (I realize I might have more in common with some out there, but where are they??) but I'm not ready to HIDE the things I've worked hard becoming good at, just so some man can feel grossly superior in countless ways. I feel great being a woman, I'm a freelance makeup artist and love the **** out of shoes, but if I'm not seen as the stereotypical shopaholic woman, the odds of someone being attracted to anything other is significantly less.

 

No, I'm far from some run of the mill Prada wearing cunt that spends countless bucks to "look hot", who's nonexistent personality is just as deep as the puddle in my driveway...and this is the pinacle of femininity? These are the women who want the big diamond ring on her manicured finger, while her hubby slaves away so she can depend on someone else to live. Is this really what you want, guys?

 

Give it to me straight, I thought guys WANTED something challenging, not some obedient girl with a pretty face and not much else.

 

 

I mean that.

Just out of curiosity, who did these men you know vote for?

I'll bet I can guess. LOL!

 

Most of the chick's I meet are princesses afraid of getting their hands dirty.

They spend more money on clothes than I spend at the hardware store yearly & i'm renovating my house.

 

Except one. She has a bigger truck than me & more attachments for her tractor than I do. She makes more money than me & loves manual labor.

 

I think I like her. don't know her all that well, but she is my type of woman.

[Yukikazi]

So you are a tomboy type. Nothing wrong with that..

 

How girly do you act around guys you like?

Get hit on decently often?

Are you nervous around attractive guys that you are interested in or do you start drinking like the guys and knocking back shots and using language that would make sailors gulp?

 

As it is there doesn't appear to be anything wrong with you via your description, you sound like a cool fun chick.. something is missing from the equation...

[Strych9]

So you are a tomboy type. Nothing wrong with that..

 

How girly do you act around guys you like?

Get hit on decently often?

Are you nervous around attractive guys that you are interested in or do you start drinking like the guys and knocking back shots and using language that would make sailors gulp?

 

As it is there doesn't appear to be anything wrong with you via your description, you sound like a cool fun chick.. something is missing from the equation...

 

 

uhhh, well I make an effort to look girly (just not to the extreme) but even as a woman I'm puzzled as to what acting girly is. I'll laugh at jokes if they're funny, my body language might not be very good, the arm touching and all of that is foreign to me. Guys that do hit on me are more often than not just looking to score, and that won't fly with me. I think when I first meet anyone I'm reserved and quiet, but I admit it I use some foul language. There's definitely some dark humour going on, but I've never received any complaints, if anything it has intrigued men, but I suppose it's short lived. Can dark humour (and I mean sometimes downright offensive) be the culprit? Can things you say and Do Not mean at all be taken seriously?

[Yukikazi]

uhhh, well I make an effort to look girly (just not to the extreme) but even as a woman I'm puzzled as to what acting girly is. I'll laugh at jokes if they're funny, my body language might not be very good, the arm touching and all of that is foreign to me. Guys that do hit on me are more often than not just looking to score, and that won't fly with me. I think when I first meet anyone I'm reserved and quiet, but I admit it I use some foul language. There's definitely some dark humour going on, but I've never received any complaints, if anything it has intrigued men, but I suppose it's short lived. Can dark humour (and I mean sometimes downright offensive) be the culprit? Can things you say and Do Not mean at all be taken seriously?

Well you're going to have to get used to touching on the arms and back.. if you intend to make any headway.. thats how it starts.

 

How are you so sure that the guys that hit on you only want to score? Do they flat out tell you? Or are you just assuming? What gives you such certainty that all they want is a piece of ass?

 

No, Dark humor and sarcastic wit is actually very attractive to some of us.

I mean hey.. if you can't laugh about bonsai kittens.. what can you laugh at.

 

As for what you are saying.. its not what you say.. its how you say it.

[freestyle]

Here's another angle that might be affecting your success rating with dating............

 

Are the majority of your friends guys? It sounds like you have a somewhat scornful attitude towards being feminine, so I'll venture to guess that that's the case, that you don't bond with very many women.

 

(not criticizing you, by the way, actually, you and I are a lot alike)

 

The point I'm getting at, is that a lot of guys will steer clear of a woman who mainly hangs out with guys. If they don't know you yet, in the back of their mind they might be wondering, (and stereotyping) you as being loose, even if you're not. It's horribly unfair, but people do make premature presumptions...................................Food for thought.

 

I once heard a line in an old blues tune that really resonated with me,

maybe it will strike a chord with you, too:

 

Thank God for a strong woman.........

who knows when to be weak.........................

 

I've always been a tomboy, myself, and had a hard time romantically connecting when I was in my twenties. When I heard that line in that song, a little light bulb turned on over my head.....it is possible to be tough and soft at the same time.

 

 

Be true to who you are, though. There are guys who'll appreciate a women who can hold a conversation and change a tire.............. I finally met one...............but it took a while.

 

Keep rockin' girl!!

[Yukikazi]

Do you actually know how to flirt with a guy?