When do you know it's time to leave?

[NowhereToHide]

right, a little less emotional today! There isn't very much to add to what you've said, NTH. It's quite strange how we seek what we know in relationships and we end up repeating the same mistakes we want to avoid. My wife is also very emotionally challenged. Because of what she experienced in her teens, she has learnt to create a barrier between herself and her emotions, to protect herself. My only thread is about my wife going to IC... guess what? She never did.

 

NTH, I thank you for the kind words... the situation is not unbearable, but I'm deeply unhappy, because I want to be loved... Is that too much to ask? Maybe. As long as the children are happy and things are nomal I'll stick it out... but I'm 47 and I feel I'm wasting my life a bit...

 

Thanks, Giotto. I know this stuff is hard. I appreciate you having this dialogue with me.... as hard as it is.

 

I understand completely you wanting to be loved. It is my number one need (it probably is for most on some level I suppose). And it's the need that I have been asking my H for for over 15 years. And nothing. He has ignored me, and ignored my needs. Last night he told me that NOW he wants to fight for our marriage, mainly because for the first time he is seeing me shut down. It's scaring him. And all I could feel was anger that it's taken me getting to this point for him to want to put effort in. I don't know if our MC is going to be able to get me past my anger... we'll see.

 

Like you, my kids are SO happy. So I could see staying for them, even though I feel exactly as you do. And they're not seeing their parents fight.... but I do get that they're also not seeing us LOVE. That's the question, right? Which is better? The kids staying in a home with two parents that get along but aren't in love, or going through a divorce where their lives will be uprooted.... I guess the former sounds better to me. But who knows what is truly the right thing at the end of the day.

 

It saddens me to hear that your wife didn't go to IC.... it has helped me tremendously to see my dysfunction and to (hopefully) get me to see how NOT to repeat the same patterns with my own kids. It's a difficult process, but the pain has been worth it. Although, I'm still unable to delve very deep into my childhood with my therapist, even after nine months.

 

Giotto, thank you again. It always helps to talk with someone going through a similar situation. Please feel free to PM me if you ever need to talk.

[kevinconner]

Ok, I'll jump in. Same exact situation here as well. Wow, that makes four of us.

 

Giotto / Nowhere : Living with someone you do not deeply love becomes easier the more you concentrate on developing & loving yourself first. I'll go one further and say that you can not even hope to marry again with success if you do not develop your own sense of a healthy identity first. For me, this is what got me into this issue in the first place.

 

And not only that, but through my research I've found out that because I have poor self worth, I actually seek out women stronger than me so I can continue to feel bad about myself. WTF? Even three years ago I was drawn to this woman at work and thank God nothing happened. She was super strong willed, dominating and would have represented an immediate power struggle to me.

 

Also, while the grass may seem greener, you have to realize what you have. Friends of mine, who are divorced, now have their freedom to date, kids every other week and some are in a panic that they will forever be alone. Sure they are having more passion and more sex and feel more alive, but there is a cost to that as well.

 

If you are not 100% comfortable living alone, then to shut down and Divorce expecting that you'll meet someone new in short order is very very unlikely.

 

But its crazy to me how similar we are. Married, in love for a few years, first child was ok, after the second it went downhill. All we are both guilty of is not putting our marriage first. Jobs, career, house, children...nobody can ever blame us for neglecting that, it is all outstanding. But as a couple we have suffered. There is so much distance, the emotional connection is gone, the resentment is strong, and we have both found a way to compromise in our house and keep the peace. Fighting has stopped since we both know how to stop the fights, sex maybe 1-2x per month, cards on holidays, errands. On the outside it all looks like the perfect life.

[giotto]

gosh, I'll have to go to bed and think about all of this...

[Snowflower]

 

I understand completely you wanting to be loved. It is my number one need (it probably is for most on some level I suppose). And it's the need that I have been asking my H for for over 15 years. And nothing. He has ignored me, and ignored my needs. Last night he told me that NOW he wants to fight for our marriage, mainly because for the first time he is seeing me shut down. It's scaring him. And all I could feel was anger that it's taken me getting to this point for him to want to put effort in. I don't know if our MC is going to be able to get me past my anger... we'll see.

 

 

Your thread makes me want to cry!

 

NTH...I don't have a lot of words of advice for you. But I can understand your POV from a completely different perspective, more like I was in your husband's position. I've lived what you are going through but from a different perspective in the relationship. But, because I am also a woman, I can empathize with your 'side' too.

 

Walking through the h*ll that occurred when my marriage imploded last year taught me a lot about my husband and yes, myself. 18 months ago my H would have probably sounded a lot like what you are saying above and I would have sounded more like your husband. Just like your husband is doing now, I (finally) noticed something was wrong when my H began closing himself off...it was almost too late. I was so stupid...how could I have let things get to that point? Anyway, my H and I had to hit rock bottom before we could figure out if our relationship was worth saving.

 

Not sure if any of this helps but I just wanted to say I've been where your H is and it is possible IF both partners want to save the relationship.

 

Give MC a chance and give your H a chance if it's at all possible for you. You mention that your H is still your best friend...well that is a good start. I think friendship is the a big part of the foundation for any successful marriage.

[NowhereToHide]

Your thread makes me want to cry!

 

NTH...I don't have a lot of words of advice for you. But I can understand your POV from a completely different perspective, more like I was in your husband's position. I've lived what you are going through but from a different perspective in the relationship. But, because I am also a woman, I can empathize with your 'side' too.

 

Walking through the h*ll that occurred when my marriage imploded last year taught me a lot about my husband and yes, myself. 18 months ago my H would have probably sounded a lot like what you are saying above and I would have sounded more like your husband. Just like your husband is doing now, I (finally) noticed something was wrong when my H began closing himself off...it was almost too late. I was so stupid...how could I have let things get to that point? Anyway, my H and I had to hit rock bottom before we could figure out if our relationship was worth saving.

 

Not sure if any of this helps but I just wanted to say I've been where your H is and it is possible IF both partners want to save the relationship.

 

Give MC a chance and give your H a chance if it's at all possible for you. You mention that your H is still your best friend...well that is a good start. I think friendship is the a big part of the foundation for any successful marriage.

 

Thank you for this. In so many ways I look around me and can't for the life of me figure out when all of this started to erode. How in the hell did we ever get to this point?

 

In many ways I can say that he still is my best friend, but on the other hand I've stopped going to him for so many of my needs over the years that I'm not sure some days how I feel anymore. For so long we have just ignored each other. And in some ways I think ignoring each other is worse than abuse. It's a slow disintegration... it's deceptive and in many ways things get bad before you really are willing to own it.

 

I absolutely own my part in the disintegration. We are both to blame. But I think I'm surprising myself at just how angry I am. I'm angry at myself for having an affair, I'm angry at him for ignoring me for so many years. And I'm so angry that it's taking me being willing to walk out the door for him to notice me. And I can't help thinking that it's my usefulness as the mother of his children, the family social director, the household cook, etc. that is making him take notice rather than the thought of losing his "life partner".

 

I guess the biggest question will be whether or not what we have to offer the other person will be enough.

[NowhereToHide]

Ok, I'll jump in. Same exact situation here as well. Wow, that makes four of us.

 

Giotto / Nowhere : Living with someone you do not deeply love becomes easier the more you concentrate on developing & loving yourself first. I'll go one further and say that you can not even hope to marry again with success if you do not develop your own sense of a healthy identity first. For me, this is what got me into this issue in the first place.

 

And not only that, but through my research I've found out that because I have poor self worth, I actually seek out women stronger than me so I can continue to feel bad about myself. WTF? Even three years ago I was drawn to this woman at work and thank God nothing happened. She was super strong willed, dominating and would have represented an immediate power struggle to me.

 

Also, while the grass may seem greener, you have to realize what you have. Friends of mine, who are divorced, now have their freedom to date, kids every other week and some are in a panic that they will forever be alone. Sure they are having more passion and more sex and feel more alive, but there is a cost to that as well.

 

If you are not 100% comfortable living alone, then to shut down and Divorce expecting that you'll meet someone new in short order is very very unlikely.

 

But its crazy to me how similar we are. Married, in love for a few years, first child was ok, after the second it went downhill. All we are both guilty of is not putting our marriage first. Jobs, career, house, children...nobody can ever blame us for neglecting that, it is all outstanding. But as a couple we have suffered. There is so much distance, the emotional connection is gone, the resentment is strong, and we have both found a way to compromise in our house and keep the peace. Fighting has stopped since we both know how to stop the fights, sex maybe 1-2x per month, cards on holidays, errands. On the outside it all looks like the perfect life.

 

So Kevin... do you plan on leaving after your kids are older?

 

I'm starting to think that this is something that I may have to figure out how to be okay with.... staying for my kids and living with a "friend" and providing a home with security and stability.

 

Everyone would assume I'm living the perfect life. Everyone adores my H. It's all a big lie.

[Snowflower]

 

I absolutely own my part in the disintegration. We are both to blame. But I think I'm surprising myself at just how angry I am. I'm angry at myself for having an affair, I'm angry at him for ignoring me for so many years. And I'm so angry that it's taking me being willing to walk out the door for him to notice me. And I can't help thinking that it's my usefulness as the mother of his children, the family social director, the household cook, etc. that is making him take notice rather than the thought of losing his "life partner".

 

 

Ah, yes, the anger. I kind of wonder if anger plays more of a central role in a spouse's decision to have an affair than many people realize.

 

I understand the anger part and I had noticed it in my pre-affair marriage, as well. It (anger)was going back and forth between my husband and me. I have since realized that anger was alive and well in our pre-affair marriage because of unspoken resentment, hurt and bitterness on both our parts.

 

At the very beginning of his A (although I had no clue at the time), I remember my H got really, really angry at me over a relatively small incident that had happened. I remember at the time I could feel the bitterness and resentment just pouring out of him and thinking that it wasn't good. Later, after we reconciled we discussed the incident, as we discuss everything now and I remember my H saying he was so angry at ME because I wasn't giving him what the OW was starting to give him, namely attention and caring, and yet my H still wanted those things from me. Hence, the anger.

 

My H also said similar things to me that you are saying about your H...that I only wanted him around for the paycheck, to fix things around the house, etc. I didn't want him for him. He also told me many times that it was too late. But NTH, I had woken up to the fact that things were going south quickly in my marriage. Yes, there was the A in the background but in my husband's case the A was more of a symptom of what had gone wrong between us than anything else.

 

But, I honestly don't think your H will only miss you for those other roles that you fill...mother, social director, etc. He will be devastated if you leave, especially when he has no clue (up until now anyway). I'm not even talking about your A--although that greatly complicates things. It's not even the issue right now, I don't think. The issue is the anger, hurt, resentment, unmet needs that you and your husband have to face.

 

So, I guess I'm saying that if it really takes you closing down and in a sense, getting ready to leave for your H to notice, then maybe that is what it has to come to for anything to really change. Maybe the truth about your A also has to come out at some point as well. I know you haven't/don't want to tell your H about your affair and that's your decision...you know your situation best.

[Devil Inside]

Well...I may as well join the club here. I am in a very similar emotionally dead marriage. It is a very difficult situation to be in when you have to small children.

 

What makes it especially difficult for me is in many ways I feel that she is not at a point where she can admit that she is lacking from me what I lack from her...passion, intimacy, sexual energy, and romance. Either that or we have different ideas and expectations of what this looks like. From my point of view she is not feeling it either.

 

NTH...you and I have had similar journeys in many ways. You know that my heart goes out to you. I do not know what the right answer is...there probably isn't one. It is a sacrafice no matter what you do. On one side, you can leave, and then there will be a disruption to your life, his life, and that of your children. Or you can stay, and feel like you are not loved the way you want to be. It will leave a hole in you that you have tried to fill once by having an A. Or you can try to repair what is broken, and risk working hard, being vulnerable, and in the end knowing you just aren't meant to be.

 

There are nights where I lay awake weighing these options out for myself. If my A taught me anything, it is that I am lacking a lot from my M, and that there are other women out there that can give me what I miss...women that I can also build a life with...the problem is...my W is the mother of my children.

 

Keep us updated. Let us know how MC goes. Whatever you decide you know I have your back, and we all will be here for support. One day we will all need it as well.

[Spark1111]

I don't want to TJ, but I just read an article that says the biggest effect on children is the amount of discord, either in the marital relationship, or the divorced one, that scars them for life.

 

So, think about that.

 

If you are amicably married, or amicably divorced, the kids will turn out fine in most situations,

 

But if there is discord, tension, unspoken or spoken resentment or anger between the parents, kids have built-in radar for it and it effects them deeply.

 

So you can paste a smile on your face and sing songs around the christmas tree, and the kids will fake happiness like you are.....but they know the authenticity of parental feelings though they may now have the verbal skills to express it.

 

And the mistakes you make in YOUR relationship, will be the same ones you see them make it there adult relationships, and it will kill you to the core.

 

If it is broke, fix it. If it can't be fixed, leave it. If you divorce, do so amicably with grace and integrity.

[giotto]

NTH... when the anger subsides, you probably will end up staying... like I did... I'm still angry, but in a more "philosophical way"... I'm angry at my wife for shutting me out, I'm angry at myself for not being able to cope with it, for not being strong, for being a doormat, for being a nice person - too nice - until everything collapsed around me... sometimes for choosing a couple of glasses of wine instead of facing reality, for retreating into myself, for not understanding, for not being able to understand, for being lost for many years... I could go on... and yes, I often think: why me? Why did I pick up the wrong woman for me? Why did I believe that we could be happy together? We were young and I thought I had a happy life in front of me... I was so wrong...

[giotto]

I don't want to TJ, but I just read an article that says the biggest effect on children is the amount of discord, either in the marital relationship, or the divorced one, that scars them for life.

 

So, think about that.

 

If you are amicably married, or amicably divorced, the kids will turn out fine in most situations,

 

But if there is discord, tension, unspoken or spoken resentment or anger between the parents, kids have built-in radar for it and it effects them deeply.

 

So you can paste a smile on your face and sing songs around the christmas tree, and the kids will fake happiness like you are.....but they know the authenticity of parental feelings though they may now have the verbal skills to express it.

 

And the mistakes you make in YOUR relationship, will be the same ones you see them make it there adult relationships, and it will kill you to the core.

 

If it is broke, fix it. If it can't be fixed, leave it. If you divorce, do so amicably with grace and integrity.

 

To be honest, I've never seen my parents cuddle or even kiss and I know now that they weren't that happy... did I notice it? No, not really. Did it affect me? Maybe. It was more their individual behaviour towards me than their behaviour as a couple. I still prefer that they stayed together, despite their issues as parents. If they separated, I would have been more devastated... but I never thought for a single moment that they were unhappy... I think people believe the children can pick up a lot more that they actually do...

[luvstarved]

Gawd what a sad thread. It's funny, there are so many things you read about honesty and senstivitity, and yet people end up terrified to talk about things that way, and so instead you just get bitterness and resentment over what I think in a lot of cases is just one colossal clusterf**k of a mutual misunderstanding.

 

It seems to me that if I could open my H's head and he could open mine and take a good hard look, we might well go, oh yeah, I have those thoughts too but I mean well and now see that you do, too.

 

And so much of what we don't say is from fear of hurting the other person's feelings, or of exposing ourselves as the jerks that we think - more than others do - we might be for having needs and seeming selfish or whatever.

 

In the end, it's just not fair to hide feelings that materially affect the relationship - like "I am not in love with you anymore" - for any reason, really - whether you are clinging to the path of least resistance, the convenience or terrified that this is as good as it gets and you don't want to be alone...really, it just seems UNFAIR.

 

I've tried to rationally encourage my H to just tell me "the truth" but one minute he says he loves and respects me and thinks everything's fantastic, and the next I am intolerable and he can't stand me.

 

I try to tell my feelings, and just get cut off, told I am "being negative" (I want to solve problems, not deny their existence and white-knuckle it, it's true) and that I have "serious issues".

 

This whole "failure to communicate" seems to me like such a HUMONGOUS aspect of failed relationships...MUCH more so than the actual feelings not being conducive to the relationship. In other words, it seems more like an inability to connect honestly, gain true intimacy, that causes so much of the problem, rather than a fundamental incompatibility.

 

And it just goes on and on. I've told my H that I would rather get seriously beaten up one time and heal and get on with life than to get slapped every day for 10 years with no end of it in sight. Don't take that literally folks, just saying I'd rather hear the "truth I can't handle" and get it over with than to have this quiet undercurrent of its existence tearing away at me daily...

 

Anyway, so sad to be reminded of the pervasiveness of this - and yes yes yes among so many couples who seem on the surface to have it all together and living the idyllic American Dream...damned damned lies.

[angie2443]

I think people believe the children can pick up a lot more that they actually do...

 

I think you and many others here have picked a lot more from your childhoods than you realize. Just look at where you're at now.

[angie2443]

In the end, it's just not fair to hide feelings that materially affect the relationship - like "I am not in love with you anymore" - for any reason, really - whether you are clinging to the path of least resistance, the convenience or terrified that this is as good as it gets and you don't want to be alone...really, it just seems UNFAIR.

 

 

I agree with much that you said. I just wanted to respond to this part.

 

I think that many times the so called "failure to communicate" happens because of an attempt to control a person or a situation, or, an attempt to get out of doing anything. Just look at some of these situations here. What would happen if some of these posters or their partners said how they really felt? It could very well force change. However, the change that might happen might not be to the liking to the person communicating, so they keep quite. Also, what is really going on when a person tells their partner over and over that they need something (sex, affection, respect) and their partner fails to give it to them over and over? It's not that the other partner isn't getting the message. They've gotten the message loud and clear. They just don't want to give in to their partner's request. Maybe they have a good reason, I don't know.

[giotto]

They've gotten the message loud and clear. They just don't want to give in to their partner's request. Maybe they have a good reason, I don't know.

 

it could be an inability to give what their partner wants... one thing is understanding, another is actually acting on it. Some people are not able to act on their emotions because they have been emotionally scarred or hurt. It's a form of defense. Whilst I was the one who wanted to communicate all the time, my wife would withdraw in her shell and pretend everything was fine, even if it was very clear it wasn't... she just could not deal with it. Many times she said to me that everything was fine... but I knew very well it wasn't. But she did nothing about it. Eventually I grew bitter and she resented me for being bitter, but I run out of options... so we grew apart, both resenting each other. I wish I had a solution...

 

I do blame my wife for the failing of our marriage and I blame myself for eventually taking the easy way out... I shouldn't have, but I was too weak...

[Spark1111]

Almost 90 percent of all marital issues are unsolvable! You have your opinion, they have their opinion, and the bickering continues.

 

There has to be a choice to either be right, or be lovable. The ensuing power struggles are what builds distance and scraps all attempts at compassionate communication.

 

A good question for all of us in long term relationships to ponder: Would you date you today, as you act in your marital relationship? Are you kind, considerate, respectful and fun?

 

Do you truly listen to your partner and validate them? Or do you listen in an attempt to jump in and contradict or criticize them, or present your side of things?

 

Do you say nothing, waiting for them to open up to you? You wouldn't get a second date, if you were out on the dating scene.

 

Think about it. Observe how YOU interact with your spouse for 24 hours. Would you go out on a second date with YOU based on how you treat your spouse?

 

Be the change you wish to see in the relationship, for a while, with no expectation of reciprocation.....just like dating someone new in the early months.

[kevinconner]

NWTH and everyone else who is in a similar situation, can we all try to keep in contact with each as the thoughts and comments in this thread are very very powerful to me.

 

To answer NWTH about leaving the kids. My thoughts on this change back and forth. What I need to make sure of is that I can get inside my wife's head and have a mature, meaningful and productive conversation about the state of our marriage.

 

She is hot tempered and can become violent, so I need to diffuse all of this first if I ever plan to have an agreeable divorce.

 

While attempting to do this, at times I have found that the conversations pull us slightly together. As if our chat has removed one brick from the wall that we've built up over the last 6 years. And since we no longer argue (knowing where that gets us both) there are no more bricks being put up.

 

I've been at this now for over a year. I'm a slow learner. But here are some short cuts that may help:

 

- My wife comes from a long long line of women who were without the doubt the ones who wore the pants in the family. She is dominating. For some odd reason, for years I was attracted to that. Problem is now I see it for what it is and I want to be with someone who wouldn't mind having at least an equal around the house.

 

- Dig dig dig into your childhood. There are tons of answers there. My parents never made out in front of me, never snuggled on the couch, never spent lazy mornings in bed. At one point, when I was 12 my father said he was done and that he was moving out. I was glad. I wanted the feeling of living in a monastary to stop. Both my mother and father said to me that they stayed in the marriage "for the kids"

 

-Read up on divorce. Its not as simple as you think. I know for me that I need to get myself BACK to where I was before I got married and outside of this isolated weak hole I've dug for myself. Build your character, your activites, your sense of self worth. As high as it can go so you can at least be in charge of your life IF the big D happens.

 

-The book "His needs her needs" and "mating in captivity" are very helpful. When you go to the Barnes & Noble, try to just pick these books up and notice the section you are in.... which is mostly about 1,001 sexual positions to love your spouse, makign great love, love postions for the kitchen...you get the idea. Make sure you think about coming back to that section one day because you are in a postion in your marriage to want to try these things with your spouse now that the anger and resentment are gone.

 

-Really start building on your relationship with your children ( if you have any) For me, the anger and distance has also affected them and I am now noticing how much time I devote to unwrapping the analyzing my marriage. Let it go, become more relaxed and build build build with them. Your spouse may indeed one day leave or you may leave, but your children will stay with you forever.

[LDR]

- Dig dig dig into your childhood. There are tons of answers there. My parents never made out in front of me, never snuggled on the couch, never spent lazy mornings in bed. At one point, when I was 12 my father said he was done and that he was moving out. I was glad. I wanted the feeling of living in a monastary to stop. Both my mother and father said to me that they stayed in the marriage "for the kids"

 

I have to agree with this. My parents marriage wasn't a happy one. There was a lack of love, I never saw them being affectionate, they were just roomates. They stayed together because of security, fear of being alone and "the kids". I would have preferred for them to be divorced when I was young as I grew up with the incorrect idea of what a relationship should be. . . even if they didn't fight a lot. Children notice the lack of affection.

 

This has affected my relationships. I am actually seeing a therapist as I have trouble with commitment, don't want to end up like my parents, have a distorted idea (maybe?) of what a long term relationship is.

 

Anyone, staying for the kids sometimes is not a good decision as some think.

[NowhereToHide]

All I can say is... WOW. I really had no idea how pervasive all of this was. It makes me so sad, but also oddly comforted that I'm not alone with all of this.

 

In response to a couple of threads:

 

--My H and I are actually really good communicators. When either of us wants to talk, we give the other our full attention. We listen. That has NEVER been our problem. It's actually one of the strengths in our marriage.

 

--If I try and analyze it, I think my M is where it's at for a number of reasons. For me, I've been asking my H for change for 15 years. I've communicated it, and he has heard me. And there has ever been an ounce of change in behavior on his part. He will readily admit this. He has ignored me, ignored my needs, been emotionally cut off, taken me for granted, etc. etc. And now, after all this time, while I'm shutting down, he is scared. It pisses me off to no end.

 

--What's my role in all of this? I focused too much on my kids. I didn't spend the time to figure out what he needed, though I did ask many times. I shut down to our life together, because the pain of just "existing" was more than I could bear. So we started to live very separate lives. I definitely own my part in that.

 

--I come from a family of divorce. My father cheated on my mother and left. And before that it was a house without much love. My father is emotionally cut off (like my H) and my mother is emotionally damaged and loves in a very conditional way. And this dynamic has absolutely affected me and still does. I have been in IC for 9 months trying to reconcile all of this so that it doesn't continue to plague me for the rest of my life. But it absolutely had an impact on my choice of husband and what I expect/need from him.

 

--My H is a good man, but I am pretty sure -- at the age I'm at now -- I wouldn't choose him again. I'm not sure if that's because I've changed or if he's changed. Probably both.

 

--I agree with Devil Inside... my A was a huge mistake, but it did show me that the potential for feeling loved like I need is out there. And that there are men out there who would welcome my intensity, my passion and my capacity for love. My H isn't one of them.

 

My H and I have decided to start MC in the New Year... I'll keep all of you posted. And Giotto is probably right.. at the end of the day I will most likely end up choosing to stay for my kids. I think at my core I don't really believe that my H is capable of giving me what I truly need, but there's the possibility that he can give me enough so that keeping stability for my children is an option. And I don't believe my kids are being exposed to an "unhappy" marriage. While my H and I aren't that affectionate (he has NEVER been, that's just him), we are good friends and treat each other with only respect. That said, I do wish we were modeling a better example for them.....

 

Kevin, we should absolutely stay in touch... it sounds like we have found a sort of "sub-culture" here on LS. A sad bunch we are, don't you think? I have PM, so anyone who wishes to chat on a deeper level, feel free.

[NowhereToHide]

I agree with much that you said. I just wanted to respond to this part.

 

I think that many times the so called "failure to communicate" happens because of an attempt to control a person or a situation, or, an attempt to get out of doing anything. Just look at some of these situations here. What would happen if some of these posters or their partners said how they really felt? It could very well force change. However, the change that might happen might not be to the liking to the person communicating, so they keep quite. Also, what is really going on when a person tells their partner over and over that they need something (sex, affection, respect) and their partner fails to give it to them over and over? It's not that the other partner isn't getting the message. They've gotten the message loud and clear. They just don't want to give in to their partner's request. Maybe they have a good reason, I don't know.

 

This is exactly my situation.... I have asked my H for what I need. I used to think he just didn't WANT to give it to me. Now I think he's just not able.

 

Which at the end of the day has to be okay. I can't force him to be someone he is not. And vice-versa.

[Spoiled]

Ok, I'll jump in. Same exact situation here as well. Wow, that makes four of us.

 

Giotto / Nowhere : Living with someone you do not deeply love becomes easier the more you concentrate on developing & loving yourself first. I'll go one further and say that you can not even hope to marry again with success if you do not develop your own sense of a healthy identity first. For me, this is what got me into this issue in the first place.

 

And not only that, but through my research I've found out that because I have poor self worth, I actually seek out women stronger than me so I can continue to feel bad about myself. WTF? Even three years ago I was drawn to this woman at work and thank God nothing happened. She was super strong willed, dominating and would have represented an immediate power struggle to me.

 

Also, while the grass may seem greener, you have to realize what you have. Friends of mine, who are divorced, now have their freedom to date, kids every other week and some are in a panic that they will forever be alone. Sure they are having more passion and more sex and feel more alive, but there is a cost to that as well.

 

If you are not 100% comfortable living alone, then to shut down and Divorce expecting that you'll meet someone new in short order is very very unlikely.

 

But its crazy to me how similar we are. Married, in love for a few years, first child was ok, after the second it went downhill. All we are both guilty of is not putting our marriage first. Jobs, career, house, children...nobody can ever blame us for neglecting that, it is all outstanding. But as a couple we have suffered. There is so much distance, the emotional connection is gone, the resentment is strong, and we have both found a way to compromise in our house and keep the peace. Fighting has stopped since we both know how to stop the fights, sex maybe 1-2x per month, cards on holidays, errands. On the outside it all looks like the perfect life.

 

Sounds like my life. I definitely would have left my H a year prior to my A if we did not have two small children. My youngest at that time was a few months old. Part of me thought it was just my hormones, well fast forward two years and I feel the same.

[Spoiled]

Thank you for this. In so many ways I look around me and can't for the life of me figure out when all of this started to erode. How in the hell did we ever get to this point?

 

In many ways I can say that he still is my best friend, but on the other hand I've stopped going to him for so many of my needs over the years that I'm not sure some days how I feel anymore. For so long we have just ignored each other. And in some ways I think ignoring each other is worse than abuse. It's a slow disintegration... it's deceptive and in many ways things get bad before you really are willing to own it.

 

I absolutely own my part in the disintegration. We are both to blame. But I think I'm surprising myself at just how angry I am. I'm angry at myself for having an affair, I'm angry at him for ignoring me for so many years. And I'm so angry that it's taking me being willing to walk out the door for him to notice me. And I can't help thinking that it's my usefulness as the mother of his children, the family social director, the household cook, etc. that is making him take notice rather than the thought of losing his "life partner".

 

I guess the biggest question will be whether or not what we have to offer the other person will be enough.

 

NTH, thank you for starting this thread. I feel what you feel and could have written the above statement myself. I apologize as I have no advice. But will follow this thread and hope for the best in this difficult journey.

[luvstarved]

This is exactly my situation.... I have asked my H for what I need. I used to think he just didn't WANT to give it to me. Now I think he's just not able.

 

Which at the end of the day has to be okay. I can't force him to be someone he is not. And vice-versa.

 

I see this as possible with my H too. But, since a big part of what is missing for me is sexual, I am left wondering what I am "supposed" to do about it in his eyes????? He's said an A would be a dealbreaker, and he won't answer my question as to whether his suggestion I see IC would be for the purpose of my cultivating a contentment with the "solitary sex" life...which I never will be...so, if he is unable to give me what I need, not just unwilling, what would be the proper outlet for me?

 

I too feel strangely comforted to not feel alone but the quiet desperation in this thread is ultimately a BIG FAT BUMMER.

[angie2443]

Sometimes marriages can't be saved. Sometimes they were never happy to begin with. I think in these cases, a divorce is the healthiest way to go- especially if children are involved.

[SimplyBeingLoved]

This is so true.... the same goes for us as well.

 

So, where are you netting out with all of this? Are you planning on leaving? Have you come to any decisions?

 

I'm just waiting until Dec. 26th. On that day, I'm planning to submit an application for an apartment rental.

 

Sigh.