Hit by the train - #3

[Angel1111]

You keep asking the WRONG questions about why your relationship failed. I am going to give you an analogy. Now don't think that I think your girlfriend is a "dog", just go with the analogy....

 

You are a person with a loving heart who rescued a beautiful dog that had a hard life on the streets. No predictable mothering or fathering, or discipline or training, love and leave 'em with all owners...

 

. You take this dog home, give it tremendous love, unconditional love, and when the dog runs off time after time, or turns and bites you for no reason, would it be reasonable to say, "what is wrong with me? What did I do wrong?" No, not reasonable. The rational thing to assume is, this dog has had a bad upbringing, bad experiences - that is why it left/bit me. It would leave/bite ANYONE ELSE TOO NOT JUST ME....

 

Now, you have your part in this too, of course, but that is her part. It is who she IS. You said yourself that she showed no respect for her father but expected him to be there when she wanted him to. WHOM DO YOU THINK SHE LEARNED ABOUT RELATING TO MEN FROM????

 

This is an excellent analogy.

[sotagoon]

Ok...before you all read me the riot act, I received a text message today from her in regards to the fact that she could not get into the house today to gather her belongings. (Long story....usually never lock my door, but have started to in the last few weeks...no idea why...honestly)

 

My response was "Call me"....so as you might guess, my phone rang.

 

Conversation was pretty business like, asked her how she was helath wise (very recent cancer treatment).

 

I also aked her if she could sit down to talk? (Although not married, life was lived in the same manner as being married.....so we have some things to sort out)

 

She agreed to sit down to talk early next week.

 

Now....here is where I am all screwed up. She started to tell me about her living arrangements. Moving in with a friend and where she had been living for the last 3months or so. She originally told me smoething different that was completely false. She basically owned up to that falsity.

 

In my mind, I want to ask her alot of questions about why things ended so abruptly, (She doesn't know that I know about another guy).

 

Why she has never given me a chance to hear what was bothering her and improve (usually until after she has left...and not so sure about the relativity, maybe just needed something to take the place of the real reason) ?

 

But more so the normal stuff about trying to work it out and work on the relationship.

 

As I type this, I have an acute anxiety about the idea of doing this or not.

Our conversation today felt as though she was talking to a stranger, not me..her partner and love of the last 8 years.

 

Inside, I feel like the comments or answers that would come from this conversation will hurt, cause me to become emotional, and push her away?

 

 

My father died when I was 21 and although that was really hard to deal with, there was a finality...he was not coming back. NOT POSSIBLE.

 

This is a situation where I will quite possibly be seeing her for the last time ever. She would be CHOSING to leave ME and US in the dust and never look back?

 

I love thins woman so much that I would give my life for her. What is it that allows her to give me that feeling? Why would I do this for her?

 

I feel as though I am buying a ticket to watch and accident where the person I care the most for in the world is going to die and I can't stop it, change it, or warn them not to go there.

 

This hurts so much, that my head is throbbing right now.

 

I LOVE YOU, with everything I am, but I feel as though I have to choose to stop the hurt and forget? FEAR!!??!!

Edited January 14, 2010 by sotagoon

[Angel1111]

For all the things you want to ask her, then ask. It's not like you don't have a right to ask questions. I know you love her and, not to minimize what you're feeling, but many of us have loved someone so much that we'd give our lives for them. The sad thing is, there are no guarantees where love is concerned and most of us choose to ignore that fact. I know you're going to say, "But...but...but." No guarantees. That's just the way it is.

 

I'm curious, what was your relationship like with your mother?

 

Honestly, as wishy-washy as this woman is, I don't think you have seen the last of her. I think she'll screw up with this new guy and then come running back to you. She just strikes me as being that kind of person. She's probably in shock and awe that you locked your doors. What WERE you thinking??? I think it was a great wake-up call to her. It basically said, "You don't live here anymore, remember?" Keep locking your doors.

[Catseye8]

I love thins woman so much that I would give my life for her. What is it that allows her to give me that feeling? Why would I do this for her?

 

Would it help to turn that into giving yourself some credit? You have a lot of love to give. You've been a great partner to this woman, far better than it sounds like her actions deserved. These are good things about you! But you're aiming them in the wrong direction, and that's hurting you. The fact that you love her doesn't mean you have to keep on handing her your heart, only to have her stamp on it again and again. And you know, you know, that she will.

 

Dazzle22 - I LOVE the stray dog analogy! Wow, I'm so using that to think about my own situation. (The dog bit me, ran away, kept bringing chew-toys to my front door, bit me again when I went out to pat it on the head, and then did tricks to show me how good it was. I am very sorry the dog had a bad past, but I do not wish to keep getting bitten.)

[sotagoon]

As far as the questions....I just remember that no matter what I said in times past....it really didn't affect her enough to be the cause for her return. My idea now, is this: Will I cause more heartache to my self by asking the questions? and/or Is this really the end?..if so..I'm sure they don't mean a damn thing.

 

My relationship with my mother?......It was always a realtionship that was at arms length...but I think that changed when my father died. My mother seemed to rely a little more on me after that. I guess our relationship maybe got a little closer, but I think out of necessity for her.

 

You know....about her coming back, this time just feels different. The other times, she only left with necessitites and left the house full of her things. Although I didn't see it then.....I'm sure this was a sign that she was coming back....eventhough I didn't take heed.

 

She is now treating it more like a divorce, very rare contact, only via text, and pretty stand-offish.

 

I guess I just get the feeling that she is done?

[Angel1111]

As My relationship with my mother?......It was always a realtionship that was at arms length...but I think that changed when my father died. My mother seemed to rely a little more on me after that. I guess our relationship maybe got a little closer, but I think out of necessity for her.

 

Based on your relationship with this person now, your relationship with your mother doesn't surprise me at all. I suspected as much. I had this discussion with someone else in another thread about why we attract people that mirror our relationships with our opposite sex parent. Like, women will attract the same kind of men who act like their fathers - or who treat them as their fathers did. I guess you can see how this current 'on-again, off-again' relationship very much mirrors your issues with your mother. I think your mother taught you that unless a person is in need, then you don't have much value. It's not true, of course, but I think that's what you've been taught to believe. Therefore, this is why you've attracted someone who treats you dismissively and uses you when she needs you.

 

And then, being in perfect sinc with the Universe's ways, you are a perfect mirror of her issues with her father. I think until we resolve the things that hurt us, we'll continue down a destructive path. When you're done with this belief system, this person won't have this kind of power over you anymore.

 

I wasn't suggesting that you ask your ex questions so that she'll come back. I was just saying to ask, if you want answers. I'm sure things are different this time because she has found someone new to latch onto. She's going to mess that up, too. You know that, right?

[sotagoon]

I whole-heartedly agree about the similarity of me to her father. I always wanted to make sure she had/has everything she needs.

 

She would always say to me, "I wish when I told you about my problems, you would just say "Oh...that suscks" and not offer to help or suggest a solution."

 

I finally started to do that....just say "I'm sorry". SO then what.....i just came accross as someone who didn't care anymore?

 

Isn't that what being a good partner is about?

 

 

Correct me if I'm wrong....So let's say I change....and only be there SOMETIMES when I'm needed.....then this type of woman would not be attracted to me huh?

 

OK....then I'll end up like the men who get divorced because they are ABSENT. I don't keep score..think it's terrible to do so.

 

I'm a giving and unselfish person....I give when able, and sacrifice when appropriate.

 

Maybe this just meens that I'm better off without attachement? Or maybe just until my mother passes?

[Catseye8]

Sotagoon, I don't think you should base your opinion of how good a partner you are on this woman's judgement. She doesn't seem like the best judge.

[sotagoon]

Would it help to turn that into giving yourself some credit? You have a lot of love to give. You've been a great partner to this woman, far better than it sounds like her actions deserved. These are good things about you! But you're aiming them in the wrong direction, and that's hurting you. The fact that you love her doesn't mean you have to keep on handing her your heart, only to have her stamp on it again and again. And you know, you know, that she will.

 

 

Catseye....In my eyes...credit is never due a person for an unselfish act. I guess I'm maybe failing to accept that I didn't get an equal return of love.

I guess subconciously maybe I was EXPECTING something in return and that's where I went wrong.

 

Everybody deals with life's issues differently, and I guess I thought that her ways were a little awkward, but I was accepting..and by being so....I assume the possibility of being stomped on?

 

I don't know....like I said before..unconditional love has no expectations..but apparently I wanted a return?

[dazzle22]

It is understandable and reasonable to want answers and closure on a long term relationship. Hope you get it from her. I would bet a lot of money that she will be back around again sometime when her life is a total mess! Did you notice how basically she told you that you were being too nice a guy and TOO helpful?? Take that to heart. Be cold to her and tell her she owes you some answers after all this time. If she won't divulge, tell her to get her stuff and go. She'll probably like that actually.

[Angel1111]

Isn't that what being a good partner is about?

 

OK....then I'll end up like the men who get divorced because they are ABSENT. I don't keep score..think it's terrible to do so.

 

First of all, no, a good partner doesn't always step in and save the person. Sometimes that just says you don't think they have enough sense to handle their own problems. If they want help, great. If not, then leave it alone. Sometimes people do just need to be able to talk about what they're dealing with without feeling like you're going to put on your Superman cape every time. At the same time, it's nice to know that a person cares. You've got to find that balance, and learn to read people. And, most importantly, ask yourself where your real motivation is coming from.

 

It's not about being absent or uncaring. It's about knowing that you have value without being someone's savior every time they have a problem. Being generous and wanting to take care of me is a must for any man I'm with. But if he's doing it from a place of believing that he's unworthy, then I would sense that. If he's doing it because he is just being generous, that's different. Because you didn't pull away when she walked out on you twice, that screams that you don't value yourself. This does not encourage respect. And if a woman doesn't respect you, the game is over. Does that make sense?

 

You might want to read some books by John Gray - he talks about this very thing where women complain about how a man cannot just listen but he has to rescue. His books are very on-target about relationships. His most famous being 'Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus' of course. He teaches us to appreciate the differences between our sexes.

[sotagoon]

Looking back...I will say that you are right. I always wanted to be the one to help.

 

Before my father died...I was a person that rarely did anything for anyone.

We didn't know each other then.

 

When I became the "GO TO GUY", it changed how I saw people and how much joy helping people can bring.

 

RESPECT.....I guess her walking out then was just a TEST? If he tells me to go **** OFF , then he's worth it? Games....stupid games.

 

When I first met her.....she complained that I wasn't there for her enough.

I matured, and became the best MAN I could be for myself and for her.

The kind of man that is worth being with for the long haul....the one that can be counted on...no matter what.

 

I have alot of friends that she told me were a bad influence and that kept me from being responsible sometimes. These are friends that she told me 5 years ago that she didn't like.

 

After she left other times, she would then tell me that she really liked these friends. They were fun and fun to be around. Are you kidding me?

 

They are still my friends, but I just don't act like I'm 18 any more..I'm 31 for chissakes. I have a job, responsibilities and focus on where I want to be in the future. She for some reason doesn't see that this requires me to address issues when needed and make decisions based on the desired outcome.

 

It's like at one time I was behind her in grand scheme, she asked me to be a better man, so I did and in turn leap-frogged her became too responsible.

 

I spend too much...ok I save like I don't have a job and in turn get in arguements over why we don't travel as much any more?

 

WOW.....what am I missing?

[Angel1111]

What are you missing??? I'm guessing everyone else here can see it. She's flakey, flighty, immature, unstable, and undependable. Not to mention ungrateful. One day, you'll see it, too.

 

Next time, listen to your friends.

[sotagoon]

I hate to sound arguementative or ungreatful for all the support shown by everyone here. Not my intent at all.

 

I am obviously frustrated at the situation and befuddled by the results of being what I thoought to be the best person I can be.

 

My relationship had gotten to a point where I was told "Oh, OK..you just have to say that." after complementing my GF.

 

I think at a certain point of being complementary and nice and being told you're "SOFT" for doing so....I started to reach and grab for her affection.

This pushed her away and made me look possibly desperate or unworthy.

 

I never give up on someone or something that I value. It's just not in me.

 

Today I am very sad that I am losing the woman I love and the dreams we created along the way. I don't know what made her forget those dreams, but none the less, she must have a different vision of the future?

 

I can't say that I will be ok any time soon, but I can say that I have never given up on her. Even today.

 

Although I have no other choice, I guess I have to respect that she wants out and not interfere with her decision. I wish she would fully understand the degree of my devotion to her and trust that it is always with the best of intent.

[Angel1111]

I'm sorry you're hurting so much. I really am. I know how it feels. You just want to escape your own skin.

 

I guess the thing that you just won't see is that ANYONE who walks out on someone else 3 times - without warning - does not share the same vision that you do for the relationship. They don't have the same hopes and dreams. She has been trying to tell you over and over again that she will run, that she's not as invested in the relationship as you are. It doesn't matter if you're a nice guy, a bad guy, generous, ungenerous, rich, poor, whatever. She doesn't want to be there. And if she comes back to you at some point, you must know that she's high risk - that she will likely run again. I don't know what the dynamic is that drives her to do this, but this seems to be an endless cycle between the two of you. How many more times are you going to let her do this to you?

[sotagoon]

Totally letting her go turns out to actually be a very easy thing to do when you think about it.

I actually have less work to do physically by just giving up.

 

My heart is in shambles when trying to dis-connect from the situation.

 

I guess I have 2 options.....let go and forget about my dreams with her because I can't make it work by myself.

 

or

 

Continue to be an emotional wreck and suffer with this until I eventually can't any more and then look back and regret it.

 

I guess I lose either way, so the best option is to just go numb and forget it ever happened.

[dazzle22]

NO. You do NOT lose either way. This woman is TOXIC. Her leaving you is actually going to be good for you, but NOT if you pretend this never happened and go numb over it. You need to really, and I am serious as the plague right now, really read over EVERYTHING all the other posters have told you, and re read the book I recommended. The answers are all there for you, you just need to ACCEPT the truth.

 

This is you. You are the monkey who is being held captive because he has grasped a peanut in a narrow necked jar. His captors are coming to take him to his doom, and all he really needs to do, is LET GO of the peanut. Drop it, set it free, however you want to frame this, and then you will BE SET FREE. But please LEARN from this experience and don't repeat this mistake with another woman not worthy of your love....please!

[Angel1111]

This may be one reason she doesn't talk to you. You seem to get fixed on one way of thinking and can't see things any other way. You don't seem able to accept what's right in front of you.

 

Most people simply would not tolerate the kind of behavior that your ex has demonstrated. Yet, you insist on believing that because you feel a certain way, then she must also feel that way - despite what her actions tell you. It doesn't matter that she came back to you after she left. The fact is, she left you, treated you like dirt - numerous times - and you chose to ignore that and let her back into your life. If you choose to continue to ignore the facts, then don't act surprised when you don't get the results you want, my friend.

[Catseye8]

I am obviously frustrated at the situation and befuddled by the results of being what I thoought to be the best person I can be

 

Of course you're upset and frustrated, but you still sound like you're upset and frustrated with yourself. For your own health and future happiness, you really, really need to accept that there are some people in the world who will let you down and hurt you no matter what you do, no matter how good a person you make yourself. You're talking as if she wouldn't have done this to you if only you'd just acted differently or been a little bit better by her standards. That is going to let you in for a world of hurt.

 

It's awful. I know. But this woman has played football with your heart long enough - don't start kicking it around yourself.

[sotagoon]

Understanding that dysfunction like this is not the way to build a relationship has been something that I have not over looked.

 

Over time I have always seen the signs of imperfection as ways to learn how to improve on what is there. You learn things about yourself and realize that unless the hurdles present themselves, you would never learn how to adjust or overcome them.

 

For me, I have always thought that we worked well to create the best relationship possible until some outside factor throws a wrench into the mix.

For me, I always see the big picture. For her, she sees the task right in front of her and bases the whole thing on that one task. If it seems too difficult, she puts it aside for later or sometimes for NEVER.

 

Today she is planning on being at the house while I am at work to pick up a bed?????? Last week I packed every belonging of hers and moved it to the door. I guess I will be interested in seeing what is/s not there when I return home this evening? I feel like the plug is being pulled on my life with her and I have to watch it go down the drain.

 

I know that there are things that she needs to address for herself in order for US to EVER have a chance again. I know that these are things that probably need months/years of breathing time to com to fruition. It's just that I love her so much, and I beleive in her so much, that the same longing I have that she not give up on me, is multiplied X10 in the way that I would not give up on her.

 

Today will be her decision to move as much as she feel necessary and in turn taking the steps in the direction she wants this to go. I know I have no control or even input on this, so I guess I'm in for a ride.

 

I am not afraid of the inability to find another person to love. I just know what my heart feels for this woman. I am not so bull-headed that I can't see past the end of my nose.....I just don't give my all to anything..it takes me time to see what I really want and then I give THAT my all.

[Angel1111]

I am not afraid of the inability to find another person to love. I just know what my heart feels for this woman. I am not so bull-headed that I can't see past the end of my nose.....I just don't give my all to anything..it takes me time to see what I really want and then I give THAT my all.

 

This is the way most of us feel when we lose someone we love. It is very hard, hence the intense life that this site has - so many broken hearts, so much pain. We invest our hearts and souls into something that ends up not working out. We all know how you feel, sotagoon. We do. And it is really, really tough. I have lost count of the tears I have cried over broken relationships - whether I ended them or not. But me and many others here are living proof that time does heal these wounds. I'm sorry you're going through this and I'm sorry that she doesn't appreciate the person you are. Reach out to your friends - this is a time when you really need them. Let us know how it goes with her going to your house.

[dazzle22]

I am going to ask you to reference some advice given by Mem11363 in "Can I Save My Marriage" thread..

 

It is fabulous advice for guys like you IMHO. He talks about men finding a balance of what is termed alpha and beta characteristics. Read it. You are waaaay tooooo beta! That is one reason your GF doesn't respect you, that and the fact that she was raised by a totally dysfunctional family.

 

You are so passive and you WAIT for her to come over and decide what she wants to pick through. Why the heck don't you tell her, "you know what? Your stuff is all on the driveway. So if you don't want a bunch of neighbor kids to pick through it, I would suggest you get your two-timing little hiney over here and get it..Chop! Chop! " She would respect you more if you would do that.! Seriously, you need to grow some cahones!

[sotagoon]

I agree....I have BECOME too passive.

 

We don't know each other, so you would just have to beleive me when I say that she is the only person that I treat like that and I wasn't always like that. Why over time would I have let myself become this way?

 

I am only that way with her when my emotions get in the way. I know..that doesn't matter...but I guess I let it get to that point and now I have no recourse.

[Angel1111]

Why over time would I have let myself become this way?

 

Look at the title of your thread - "Hit by the train #3". This is an interesting analogy - you feel like you've been hit by a train........again........for the third time. You can only get beat up so many times before it destroys your soul and kills your spirit.

[dazzle22]

You and her have some kind of a "lock and key" fit of dysfunctional parts of your personalities. That is why it feels so "right". You are not the only one, so don't feel bad. We all feel more comfortable around people who have complementary pathologies to ours. It is a "groove" we learn as kids, and so easy to slip into. It takes conscious work to stay out of that groove. She is not the only one you do this with, it is just that the intensity of this relationship makes the dysfunction more pronounced.

 

How would your friends describe you? My guess is they would say, very giving, almost generous to a fault, defers to others wants and wishes, very nice, others sometimes take advantage of him... Am I right??