meerkat stew Posted December 18, 2009 Posted December 18, 2009 I believe in most women's hearts, sex = commitment, if having sex without total commitment such as marriage, somewhere down in those women's heart, they know something is wrong, but not obvious to them, and that will play out in one form or another: insecurity, clingy, fear These women aren't honest with themselves. To use sex to attract man is a such bad idea that backfires Point taken, and that makes good sense, but that's sure not the impression they give on the surface. Don't know if I mentioned it but I'm 45 dating women in the 33-47 range, so we've all kind of been around the block sexually more than a few times.
InspiredbyYou Posted December 18, 2009 Posted December 18, 2009 I count gym and pleasure reading as hobbies, and don't have business travel other than into the city, so am luckier than others, also self-employed helps as does living in the South and in a suburb where less bucks buys more. It's not that I don't have the time to devote more to an early relationship, but need lots of alone, reflection and down time also. I feel this makes me a better partner, but for the women I have dated, quantity, not quality seems to be all that matters. When I was your age, did the 16 hour day thing on Wall St, and that was... interesting... but found it zombifying. No night courses. What field are you in that requires that? I only have to do 12 hours of CLE a year bwahahaha. Well if reading books, and gym time counts as hobbies then I have lots of hobbies. lol Oh my god you sound like the male version of me. I am the exact same way, to the point where at times I feel guilty asking for time to myself to recalibrate. I used to think that I had commitment issues because I was always the one needing some space in order to feel like I could come back with more force into the relationship, especially after spending glorious days together. I am all about the quality and not quantity. I later realized there was nothing intrinsically wrong with me I just needed a balance of me time and our time. In some relationships it's been hard and it's been a point of contention. I should have included seminar and keynote speaker events in that time too. Corp Comms - IR. When you were my age? How old are you thought you'd be in your mid 30's?
Lovelybird Posted December 18, 2009 Posted December 18, 2009 Point taken, and that makes good sense, but that's sure not the impression they give on the surface. Don't know if I mentioned it but I'm 45 dating women in the 33-47 range, so we've all kind of been around the block sexually more than a few times. Ok, I see I think maybe dating world in some places is messed up because men and women become less honest with selves and with others. Far from being vulnerable, being honest, being transparent. The more one become mature, the more she/he can receive and give love I believe. It could be that we MAEK simple things far more complicated than it should be, because many people experience major SPLIT in their heart, use Inspiredbyyou's words, CONFUSED. People can have sex even when they barely know each other, sex is not an activity that make two people become ONE, but a simple act that is far below what is called ONENESS, which bring emptiness later.
AD1980 Posted December 18, 2009 Posted December 18, 2009 (edited) this is biological..........women chose the men who are alpha males. This ensures the species. I agree, many women like the bad boys who are hard to get, but it has NOTHING to do with low self worth and everything to do with biology BS i hate Men or women who use biology as an excuse for their attractions and wrong choice in men or women.. Women like unitnerested guys at times not becasue theyre uninterested but becasue the guys who are usally less intersted or not desperate are good looking guys because they have options and dont need to cling to the first girl who shows interest.. If a really hot guy a women is attracted to showed a women interest and didnt play games and didnt seem unitnerested she wouldnt be turned off by it.. Its about attraction..Attratcive people have options and dont need to be clingy or depsrate.. A women is a mental case to not like somebody just because he shows an interest in her.. Edited December 18, 2009 by AD1980
RedDevil66 Posted December 18, 2009 Posted December 18, 2009 BS i hate Men or women who use biology as an excuse for their attractions and wrong choice in men or women.. Women like unitnerested guys at times not becasue theyre uninterested but becasue the guys who are usally less intersted or not desperate are good looking guys because they have options and dont need to cling to the first girl who shows interest.. If a really hot guy a women is attracted to showed a women interest and didnt play games and didnt seem unitnerested she wouldnt be turned off by it.. Its about attraction..Attratcive people have options and dont need to be clingy or depsrate.. A women is a mental case to not like somebody just because he shows an interest in her.. Well I am sorry you "hate" me, but we are all about biological actions/reactions. Of course one can make choices, but choices are based not only on a mind set, but also on an instinctual drive. Hate it or not, it's what it is By the way, I'm glad this thread took an intelligent turn.
bbasher75 Posted December 18, 2009 Posted December 18, 2009 Well I am sorry you "hate" me, but we are all about biological actions/reactions. Of course one can make choices, but choices are based not only on a mind set, but also on an instinctual drive. Hate it or not, it's what it is By the way, I'm glad this thread took an intelligent turn. What you fail to realize is that if your "instinctual drive" is to be attracted to men who abuse you, that is due to self-esteem issues that the woman has. And that issue can be addressed for said woman so her "instinctual drive" would then be for her to be attracted to normal men who treat them well. But women with issues don't want to put in the work, so they force nice guys like me to turn into jerks. There are people with instinctual drives to murder, rape, and cut themselves. Should these people continue to do so? It's a cop-out to use "biology" as an excuse when their functioning brain KNOWS their is a problem with their thinking, and that they need help.
Author calizaggy Posted December 18, 2009 Author Posted December 18, 2009 It's not that simple Lovelybird. It's the wild west out there when it comes to dating. There are no true uniform codes of ethics being followed by society so everyone fends for themselves the best way they know how hoping to keep some identity and hoping to also meet someone who will take to their expectations without having to compromise too much themselves. But it is difficult when there is no guidance. At least with religion in other times there was more of a uniform path people could follow, now it's just a free for all. This is why there is so much dissatisfaction, it is so free that no one even really knows what they want anymore. I feel we've gone a little bit too far over to the other side. I read some of the threads posted here and it represents just how deeply confused people are. This I agree with. There are no more rules that people follow. No guidelines.. I think many men are also confused because the same woman might want something different every day.. Let's say I meet a woman who is single and out with her friends looking to meet a man. She might just be looking for a one night stand.. Another day she might go out and decide she is looking for a man to have a relationship with.. Over time her ideal relationship might shift from a FWB, to a live in guy, to marriage. In the past generally we knew women might be looking for a future date, get to know you, then a traditional relationship. And I can relate to Meerkats descritption of dating. I am not sure if many have become "addicted to love", but I have encountered numerous women who were extremely hot in the first few months, and then by the time my interest level climbed to meet hers, hers seemed to fall. The same woman who was all over me non stop, changing her life to be with me at anytime,making future plans, writing me love letters, now acts as though she wants some space. I might question her change, and this pushes her away.. In my mind, I am thinking that logically if someone is insecure(most people are in some way), they would want to be with someone that makes them feel more secure. But for whatever reason trying to show that you are very interested and are very content with them as who they are seems to be quite a turn off.
betamanlet Posted December 18, 2009 Posted December 18, 2009 This I agree with. There are no more rules that people follow. No guidelines.. I think many men are also confused because the same woman might want something different every day.. Let's say I meet a woman who is single and out with her friends looking to meet a man. She might just be looking for a one night stand.. Another day she might go out and decide she is looking for a man to have a relationship with.. Over time her ideal relationship might shift from a FWB, to a live in guy, to marriage. In the past generally we knew women might be looking for a future date, get to know you, then a traditional relationship. And I can relate to Meerkats descritption of dating. I am not sure if many have become "addicted to love", but I have encountered numerous women who were extremely hot in the first few months, and then by the time my interest level climbed to meet hers, hers seemed to fall. The same woman who was all over me non stop, changing her life to be with me at anytime,making future plans, writing me love letters, now acts as though she wants some space. I might question her change, and this pushes her away.. In my mind, I am thinking that logically if someone is insecure(most people are in some way), they would want to be with someone that makes them feel more secure. But for whatever reason trying to show that you are very interested and are very content with them as who they are seems to be quite a turn off. Though men have the reputation for being committmentphobes, women are more commitmentphobic than the average guy simply due to all the options she has. But then again, lots of people get married, and if you propose to a woman, that's kind of admitting you love her and want her in your life, and women occasionally still say yes. it's not like he beats her up then proposes or tells her she has to marry him
Author calizaggy Posted December 18, 2009 Author Posted December 18, 2009 Though men have the reputation for being committmentphobes, women are more commitmentphobic than the average guy simply due to all the options she has. But then again, lots of people get married, and if you propose to a woman, that's kind of admitting you love her and want her in your life, and women occasionally still say yes. it's not like he beats her up then proposes or tells her she has to marry him Well, I am starting to think there really is no reason for long drawn out "boyfriend/girlfriend" relationships. Some can say "Well you get to know the person" but I have not seen any evidence that these marriage last any longer. I know people that dated from 3-8 years and they were divorced rather quickly. Perhaps if men are basically free agents up until popping the question , assuming they are ready to be married, the chances of success are greater.. Once married the man can still be a man, and the woman has her millions of options closed but she has security in return.
gopher Posted December 18, 2009 Posted December 18, 2009 I'm not sure about average women having more options than average men. I've had many more dates than most of my single female friends. I'm not great looking, wealthy or tall. So, I've come to the conclusion that the dating pool of men for women must be very shallow. Now, if you're talking about hot, 20something women, that's another stories. They have tons of options, but those women always seemed to be a little shallow and flighty to me. The type of woman who, when on a date is always looking at the door.
betamanlet Posted December 18, 2009 Posted December 18, 2009 I'm not sure about average women having more options than average men. I've had many more dates than most of my single female friends. I'm not great looking, wealthy or tall. So, I've come to the conclusion that the dating pool of men for women must be very shallow. Now, if you're talking about hot, 20something women, that's another stories. They have tons of options, but those women always seemed to be a little shallow and flighty to me. The type of woman who, when on a date is always looking at the door. Women rarely if ever approach men. Men do the approaching, hence a woman get be approached by just being a public. While a man has to approach while in public. Women won't come to him, he must go to them. When your options come to you, you tend to have lots of options. I know very average women, nothing to write home about, who have dates every night of the week with different guys. I know not hot women who have had dated (gone on dates with) more guys in a 2 week period than I have in my entire life. Think of it this way. Who gets more responses on dating sites, men or women? A man can write ad, get zero interest, and also respond to many adds, and not get anyone to be interested, whereas a woman can write an add and get 50+ responses a day, easily. I know women that have profiles online simply to get 50 responses to make her feel better about herself. And since average women are "Average", hence less intimidating, they get hit on even more than hot women do.
stillafool Posted December 18, 2009 Posted December 18, 2009 Well for the past 3 months I changed my thinking, and have not been looking for any sort of a girlfriend. I have been busy with work, plan on travelling etc. So I met 3 different girls in the past 3 months..None of which, no matter who they are, was I going to be interested in due to being fed up with dating and a change in priorities. Girl 1.. Asian girl.. We met, ended up going on a date, and it was pretty good. Ended up fooling around. I never called her again, but 5 days later she was sending me sexually suggestive texts. I wrote back the dirtiest things I could think of, and she kept going on about how "sweet" I am.. What? Girl 2: Columbian girl, went out 3 times, ended up having sex.Ignored all of her calls, messages, and texts for almost 2 months in which she expressed more and more feelings in each one. .. I called back once telling her I was busy, and in her next message she asked if I want to live together.. Girl 3 : American girl.. Went out once, had a good date.. Never called again and ignored her texts. .. Sent her a text 3 weeks later saying I have been busy,she replied immediately, and she asked if I am busy on the 19th for a Christmas party.. However, before her, I was dating a woman who I verbally expressed interest in. I returned her calls, planned dates, made myself available, etc and it turned out she was "too busy" most of the time, and "was not emotionally available and not ready for a relationship" when I suggested we see each other more than once a week. It seems a guy appears to be a much better catch when he does not act interested, or even completely ignores them.. I will need to remember this when I am ready for a relationship. Definitely choose and marry Girl #1. BTW, what in the world are YOU doing dating American girls? I thought you hated American women.
stillafool Posted December 18, 2009 Posted December 18, 2009 Women rarely if ever approach men. Men do the approaching, hence a woman get be approached by just being a public. While a man has to approach while in public. Women won't come to him, he must go to them. When your options come to you, you tend to have lots of options. I know very average women, nothing to write home about, who have dates every night of the week with different guys. I know not hot women who have had dated (gone on dates with) more guys in a 2 week period than I have in my entire life. Think of it this way. Who gets more responses on dating sites, men or women? A man can write ad, get zero interest, and also respond to many adds, and not get anyone to be interested, whereas a woman can write an add and get 50+ responses a day, easily. I know women that have profiles online simply to get 50 responses to make her feel better about herself. And since average women are "Average", hence less intimidating, they get hit on even more than hot women do. Women approach men in person all the time. They ask men to dance at clubs, ask them out for lunch, dinner, etc. Women are constantly hitting on guys. Women know men enjoy that sort of thing and it flatters them.
sally4sara Posted December 18, 2009 Posted December 18, 2009 I'm going to give credit where credit is due. Prior to the relationship my partner and I have now, he was a jerk to some of the girls he dated. I have met all of his oldest friends and heard the stories. It wasn't something he learned in a book, but rather just a symptom of being young and stupid and not knowing how to behave like an adult. It obviously worked on other young, stupid girls who had not figured out how to behave like adults. Some of them also treated him poorly, so it def goes both ways in your teens and early 20s. We have an age difference. We had hung out in a social group a year before we dated but I barely noticed him then; his attitude stunk and I was better friends with his roomie. We began dating when he was almost 24 and I was almost 30. He DID try to be a jerk. I stopped the car and told him to take a hike. He showed up a few weeks later and cooked me dinner. He tried again to be a jerk and got tossed out of my home. Another time he came back around and acted like he had not been around by his choice and tried to sell me a story I knew was a lie; he was living in MY hometown so nothing he did was unknown to me. Door got shut in his face. It wasn't till he came around and behaved respectfully that I gave him any real time with me. And it wasn't till a nicer pattern of behavior had been established for a few months that I stopped dating other guys and only dating him. It has been lovely ever since. That was over 5 years ago. I can't wait till he sees the Invicta watch I bought him for xmas! :love: I socked away money from freelancing events all year to afford it.
gopher Posted December 18, 2009 Posted December 18, 2009 Women rarely if ever approach men. Men do the approaching, hence a woman get be approached by just being a public. While a man has to approach while in public. Women won't come to him, he must go to them. When your options come to you, you tend to have lots of options. I know very average women, nothing to write home about, who have dates every night of the week with different guys. I know not hot women who have had dated (gone on dates with) more guys in a 2 week period than I have in my entire life. Think of it this way. Who gets more responses on dating sites, men or women? A man can write ad, get zero interest, and also respond to many adds, and not get anyone to be interested, whereas a woman can write an add and get 50+ responses a day, easily. I know women that have profiles online simply to get 50 responses to make her feel better about herself. And since average women are "Average", hence less intimidating, they get hit on even more than hot women do. Agree with some of your points. But, as men, we get to approach any woman we want for a date, if we are willing to risk getting turned down. While women have to wait to be asked out, and then can say yay or nay. I know that women can do the asking out, and send signals that they are interested. But I think the majority of them prefer to be asked by the guy. Online dating, sure I think in some cases there are more men then women. But, I've been on a few sites where normal guys were in very short supply. Sites like Match will definitely have more men, and it will be harder to get a date or a relationship with the very attractive women. But, on some Christian websites, I dated and had relationships with women who were way out of my league. I met the love of my life on Eharmony, and she sent me an icebreaker... I think it's a matter of guys putting themselves out there, going out of their comfort zone, and trying different things.... just my two cents...
betamanlet Posted December 18, 2009 Posted December 18, 2009 Women approach men in person all the time. They ask men to dance at clubs, ask them out for lunch, dinner, etc. Women are constantly hitting on guys. Women know men enjoy that sort of thing and it flatters them. maybe in the twilight zone or on bizarro world, but not here on earth.
donnamaybe Posted December 18, 2009 Posted December 18, 2009 I have difficulty believing any of those three things actually happened, but if they did, having found three psychos in a row doesn't highlight a flaw in women. You took the words RIGHT outta my mouth B!!!!
donnamaybe Posted December 18, 2009 Posted December 18, 2009 maybe in the twilight zone or on bizarro world, but not here on earth. I've asked guys to dance before. What's wrong with that? It's a human to human thing. I'm not into game playing.
sally4sara Posted December 18, 2009 Posted December 18, 2009 Women approach men in person all the time. They ask men to dance at clubs, ask them out for lunch, dinner, etc. Women are constantly hitting on guys. Women know men enjoy that sort of thing and it flatters them. This is the best way for a woman to ensure that the guys she dates are at least initially interesting to her. If you're only waiting to get approached, you will be approached by random guys who you likely didn't even notice - still waiting for the ones you DID notice to get the guts up. I found that the only time guys have to courage to approach is when you've rolled out of bed and look a mess. OOhhh big scary jerks they are! Can't even ask a girl out but I'm suppose to be impressed with a fake tough guy act? Don't think so! I asked out who I found interesting and it was usually through my established friends. Gotta have a reference. If no one you know will vouch for you, is your lack of success really the fault of the female gender or is it you?
carhill Posted December 18, 2009 Posted December 18, 2009 Here's a great demarcation between the genders. Overwhelmingly, a man can't 'fix' a bitch, but a woman can use sex to fix a bad boy/*******/jerk/whatever negative behavior set. I opined in a long-ago post about the effect on ego from such successes and why they drive attraction. 'Look at me; I tamed the beast and he's mine now'. It works, hence the pragmatism of this thread. It is one path. Happiness is subjective and a gift we all deserve to experience. On the subject of women asking out men, it has not been my experience, other than with female friends. We ask each other out to lunches, events, etc. I don't recall it ever happening with any sort of prior or subsequent romantic intent or dynamic.
stillafool Posted December 18, 2009 Posted December 18, 2009 maybe in the twilight zone or on bizarro world, but not here on earth. Maybe not in Arlington, VA but it happens in large cities all the time.
betamanlet Posted December 18, 2009 Posted December 18, 2009 Maybe not in Arlington, VA but it happens in large cities all the time. Yeah, maybe in Bangkok. In Bangkok, women approach men, often.
donnamaybe Posted December 18, 2009 Posted December 18, 2009 A woman won't approach a man who is standing on the sidelines, head kind of down because he just KNOWS he's not good enough.
sally4sara Posted December 18, 2009 Posted December 18, 2009 Here's a great demarcation between the genders. Overwhelmingly, a man can't 'fix' a bitch, but a woman can use sex to fix a bad boy/*******/jerk/whatever negative behavior set. I opined in a long-ago post about the effect on ego from such successes and why they drive attraction. 'Look at me; I tamed the beast and he's mine now'. It works, hence the pragmatism of this thread. It is one path. Happiness is subjective and a gift we all deserve to experience. On the subject of women asking out men, it has not been my experience, other than with female friends. We ask each other out to lunches, events, etc. I don't recall it ever happening with any sort of prior or subsequent romantic intent or dynamic. I would think it was more that some people use trial and error to fix themselves for the life they want. It is also an obvious coming of age thing. What is the saying about putting away childish things? We all have to grow up one day if we want success in the adult word. Its also faulty to claim the achievements of others for yourself. I am different from when I was a kid and that was MY works, not some fella's.
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