Former WS... share your thoughts...

[Snowflower]

I think this is the appropriate forum for this question...

 

Something I read on another thread got me to thinking about this. How do you as former, remorseful WS feel about your decision to have an affair? I'm not talking so much about your feelings for your xAP, although that might be part of it, but how do you feel about yourself and your decision to betray/deceive/hurt the spouse you were supposedly committed to? Do you understand why you did what you did? Would you repeat your choice to have an affair?

 

I have read some insightful responses by some WS on other threads (c'mon, I know you guys and gals are out there!) and I am hoping that this will start an honest discussion which leads toward healing no matter what side of the infidelity fence you are on.

 

Please, no bashing on this thread even if some of the POV's of some posters is well, difficult...

[wheelwright]

No bashing unless we are bashing ourselves, right?

 

This 'would I have done it?' question now I have hindsight is really tough. Because what happened meant something to me, but the pain it caused also means something.

 

And I don't know. I fell in love, and at that time I trusted that the feeling meant something good. And now I no longer trust my feelings. Partly because it caused pain for others, partly for myself.

 

I would never do it again, but that's not quite the same as wishing I hadn't done it.

 

I would have worked out ways to resolve my crisis that didn't involve so much heartache before I got to the position. That's the lesson I learnt. Once I was in love, I don't think hell or high water could have stopped me. I couldn't stop it myself (here is where people bash, right?). I did try, by avoiding the OM, but my life was such that I couldn't avoid him without causing perhaps as much heartache as I caused anyway. For me at that time love was an irresitable force. I doubt it would be now, but I don't rightly know if that is a good thing or a bad thing.

 

I have also learned to appreciate things about my H since DDay. That would make it more difficult to betray him now, even if I did fall in love.

 

I learnt that M is a much deeper and responsible relationship than I understood then. I think I view it more honourably now.

 

But in all honesty, I have never connected with another person as I did with xMOM. And at the same time I see that the time/commitment/caring element I have with my H is well beyond anything I have with any other person.

 

I still don't really understand what it all means, but I know that I would not betray my H again - I would not put him through that pain. I would leave him first.

[Snowflower]

I still don't really understand what it all means, but I know that I would not betray my H again - I would not put him through that pain. I would leave him first.

 

Thanks for being brave enough to respond...sometimes I think the WS often is the poster who is bashed the most here...because both the BS and APs are mad at that person in the affair dynamic.

 

WW, give yourself time to understand what it all means. A crisis such as an affair, or any truly difficult life-changing event takes a long time to understand. Your understanding and thought process of the whole event might change several times before you reach a sense of acceptance.

[wheelwright]

Your understanding and thought process of the whole event might change several times before you reach a sense of acceptance.

 

So true.

 

I think the sense of acceptance is key. For some WS how can they accept their own behaviour? When in the A it is explained by love. Afterwards, they have to redefine it, or reinterpret it, or realise it was wrong.

 

TBH snowflower, from previous posts, I think your H has truly come back to you.

 

I want to be like your H is to you in my M, but I am not sure I am there yet. I am still so unsure about the love I felt for my xMOM. I really don't think that's the case for your H.

 

I am glad you have had the heart to reconcile. I am sure you will reap the rewards of a good M for it.

Edited December 18, 2009 by wheelwright
all the acronyms got too much!

[eyeswide]

Thanks for the "survey" SF...

 

I have been on both sides of the hurt equation...and technically, "I started it" although my H didn't _know_ about my A (which had been over for almost 2 years by then) until he was already emotionally entangled in his. (he had been suspicious but never really confronted me about anything until then.)

 

It's so hard for me to clearly explain why I did it. At first I was just desperate for some romantic attention. I don't blame my husband for that -- we both made that (very boring, actionless) bed. I had made some lame attempts to communicate my needs but those attempts resulted in anger and resentment from my H.

 

So when the OM showed me the kind of interest I'd been craving I pretty easily caved. One side of my head said "this is a baaaad idea" and the other side said "but I need it so much and if I get it from this guy, then H won't feel pressured by me and I'll have my needs met...win-win?" I know how fruggin' lame that sounds. I really do. But in the moment it made some sense. It seemed like a relief from a bind I hadn't been able to resolve. Now, if I hadn't been drinking I think I could have listened more to the "this is a bad idea" side. But I can't blame just liquor either. Our initial encounter could have been and should have been a one-night thing (clothes on, but intense). But in all honesty, I was so relieved the next day to feel a spark -- a flutter in my libido -- that I knew that if he called I would have trouble saying no.

 

But -- Just like when I go to a buffet feeling kind of weak and down on myself with nothing more than the hope that I won't make a wreck of my diet -- I would hope that when he called I would have the strength to say "no" but in the moment I would always give in to talking to him/seeing him.

[Snowflower]

 

So true.

 

I think the sense of acceptance is key. For some WS how can they accept their own behaviour? When in the A it is explained by love. Afterwards, they have to redefine it, or reinterpret it, or realise it was wrong.

 

TBH snowflower, from previous posts, I think your H has truly come back to you.

 

I want to be like your H is to you in my M, but I am not sure I am there yet. I am still so unsure about the love I felt for my xMOM. I really don't think that's the case for your H.

 

I am glad you have had the heart to reconcile. I am sure you will reap the rewards of a good M for it.

 

Yes, I agree that acceptance is the key for anyone involved in an affair and that includes the BS.

 

WW, thank you very much for your kind words about my H and my M. I think you are right that my H had figured out-likely sometime ago-what the A and the OW meant to him. We have talked about it a lot, although it has been quite awhile. Now I/we don't like to bring it up as much...it's like I'm giving the A and the OW too much power in our current marriage if we discuss what happened too much.

 

I hope that you can come to a place of acceptance in your heart for your H, your marriage and the xMOM. Then I think you will find peace and be able to move forward.

[Snowflower]

 

So when the OM showed me the kind of interest I'd been craving I pretty easily caved. One side of my head said "this is a baaaad idea" and the other side said "but I need it so much and if I get it from this guy, then H won't feel pressured by me and I'll have my needs met...win-win?" I know how fruggin' lame that sounds. I really do. But in the moment it made some sense. It seemed like a relief from a bind I hadn't been able to resolve. Now, if I hadn't been drinking I think I could have listened more to the "this is a bad idea" side. But I can't blame just liquor either. Our initial encounter could have been and should have been a one-night thing (clothes on, but intense). But in all honesty, I was so relieved the next day to feel a spark -- a flutter in my libido -- that I knew that if he called I would have trouble saying no.

 

 

This is interesting what you wrote above. Perhaps I'll PM you if you have PM privileges...?

 

In any event, thanks for sharing your honest thoughts about why you did what you did.

[eyeswide]

This is interesting what you wrote above. Perhaps I'll PM you if you have PM privileges...?

 

In any event, thanks for sharing your honest thoughts about why you did what you did.

 

I do, and feel free. I don't log on all that often, but I'll check over the next couple days.

 

I think of myself as a kind of Tiresias figure. He was the Greek who was turned into a woman for a while by Zeus, so they were always pullin' him out to ask "what's it like as a man? and what's it like as a woman?"

 

I can tell you about being a WS and BS...fun!

[statistic]

i feel horrible for it. and if i could go back in time(with the knowledge and understanding i have now)....i wouldnt do it again.

 

and yes....the affair brought us together and helped me figure out my issues. but i didnt "need" to have an affair to do it. had i been open and honest, and pushed for true open communication.....i would have always had the relationship i have now. or i guess i should say....i would see the relationship for what it has always been and how wonderful my wife is.

[babycakes2]

well this is all still pretty new and raw for me. Mine started out as an innocent phone call to an old BF (HS sweetheart) about a class reunion. We spoke a million times a day for 3 months and it then we met up again one night. One thing led to another....

 

I do feel bad. I KNOW it should have never happened. I feel bad that it did I feel bad for both other spouses. We never started out to have it end up that way...

 

We gave each other the attention that was missing in our prospective marriages. We listened to everything the other said and asked questions about the people in our lives where at least in my case my DH says "who are you even talking about?" when it is someone he 'should' know well.

 

it has since ended. both of us deciding to work on our relationships instead of each other. I would hope in time we could resume our friendship as he has always meant a great deal to me but we shall see.

 

would I do it again. no. I never wanted to hurt my dh. ever. We were considering a divorce at the time as was the MM but it was still wrong and should have never happened. I am really disappointed in myself as the one thing we had always promised each other was it would be OK if we decided one day we didn't want the other but tell the other one first, don't cheat it causes to much pain.....funny as young as we were we were right.

[LucreziaBorgia]

1. How do you as former, remorseful WS feel about your decision to have an affair?

 

2. how do you feel about yourself and your decision to betray/deceive/hurt the spouse you were supposedly committed to?

 

3. Do you understand why you did what you did?

 

4. Would you repeat your choice to have an affair?

 

1. I can look back now and see why I did those things and how I was able to do them.

 

2. I don't feel guilty at all, but I am remorseful for the hurt I caused others.

 

3. . I see now that I had a seriously fractured and compartmentalized emotional capacity, with a healthy dose of selfish and nearly clinically narcissistic and sociopathic tendencies which allowed for plenty of justification and entitlement on my part.

 

4. No. Between becoming a mother and growing as a parent, and going through a few near death experiences, I have re-prioritized my life and my values and will never cheat on or cheat with someone again. It took literally an 'act of God' (if you want to call it that) to shake the 'cheater/OW' part of my brain loose. I learned to be ethical and empathetic and it was a hard lesson to learn, but one of the most useful ones I've learned yet.

[MizFit]

1. I can look back now and see why I did those things and how I was able to do them.

 

2. I don't feel guilty at all, but I am remorseful for the hurt I caused others.

 

3. . I see now that I had a seriously fractured and compartmentalized emotional capacity, with a healthy dose of selfish and nearly clinically narcissistic and sociopathic tendencies which allowed for plenty of justification and entitlement on my part.

 

4. No. Between becoming a mother and growing as a parent, and going through a few near death experiences, I have re-prioritized my life and my values and will never cheat on or cheat with someone again. It took literally an 'act of God' (if you want to call it that) to shake the 'cheater/OW' part of my brain loose. I learned to be ethical and empathetic and it was a hard lesson to learn, but one of the most useful ones I've learned yet.

 

LB...I find this interesting. My MM always said he didn't feel guilty and trying to regain contact says he still doesn't. As an OW I feel empathy for the hurt of his BW, but I don't feel any guilt (I know this is horribly unpopular and I'm not looking to restart that debate)...how can you as a WS not feel guilt? I'm not judging at all...MM can't explain why...I'm hoping you can.

 

Thanks...

[wheelwright]

For some reason the love part seems to absolve the guilt. You hate the pain you cause but you can't take back the love.

 

Love is the reason. I no longer understand if this is a truly good reason, or something immature in my soul.

 

Love should not involve hurt to another person. That's where the head f*** is I think.

[JaneInVegas]

This should be a thought provoking thread if we can keep judgmental bashing away!

 

I am going to be brutally honest, which is going to be hard, because it was so humiliating for me. My ex and I have been split up for a number of years. I've only told maybe 2 people what happened to drive me over the edge to have an affair.

 

Sex is important to me, maybe as important to me as it is to the average male. My ex didn't want anything to do with me. We would go for long, long stretches of no sex, and it was driving me bonkers. Our record was 8 months, and it was hell.

 

So after yet another huge, long marathon of no sex, I decided to assert myself in a different way. He was watching a cooking show on TV. I went and stood in front of the TV completely buck ass naked, and said something to him, I don't even remember what. He did one of those rubber neck moves, in order to see around my body to keep his eyes glued on that fascinating cooking show. After several minutes I realized it was hopeless, and I burst into tears. I half-yelled at him, "What is WRONG with me? Why don't you want me anymore? Is there something I'm not doing right? WHAT?!"

 

I'll never forget this for the rest of my life ...

 

He jerked up from his chair and glared at me like I'd killed his mother or something, and I actually braced myself for him to hit me. I did. But instead he reached into his back pocket, yanked out his wallet, ripped out his credit card and threw it at me with total disgust and anger and SCREAMED at me, "TAKE THIS AND GO SHOPPING! GO ACT LIKE A NORMAL WOMAN AND LEAVE ME THE EFF ALONE!!" With that he shoved me away from the TV, and went back to his cooking show. I went into the bedroom and bawled for about an hour, and by the time I was done crying, I had made up my mind I was going to officially start the affair I had been trying to ignore for over a year.

 

Several years later I found out that even though he was in his mid-30's, he needed Viagra, and he chose to treat me that way rather than tell me the truth.

 

I'm not trying to justify what I did, I should have left him rather than having an affair, but it was a lesson learned. I know I'll NEVER participate in another affair again.

[LucreziaBorgia]

LB...I find this interesting. My MM always said he didn't feel guilty and trying to regain contact says he still doesn't. As an OW I feel empathy for the hurt of his BW, but I don't feel any guilt (I know this is horribly unpopular and I'm not looking to restart that debate)...how can you as a WS not feel guilt? I'm not judging at all...MM can't explain why...I'm hoping you can.

 

The best way I can put it is that guilt is caused by external forces, and remorse is entirely internal.

 

A person can make you feel guilt, but they can't make you feel remorse. Only you can do that. In my case, I was so compartmentalized that I was able to pull off cheating without the SO I was with at any given time figuring anything out. They were none the wiser and happy, so I never felt guilt for what I was doing. In some cases, a cheating person can simply just not care enough for their SO to feel guilty about what they are doing. They get enough happiness out of their outside relationships that it counters the need to feel guilty about the primary one. For others, it is a simple matter of feeling justified regardless of how happy or unhappy the primary or outside relationships are.

 

Remorse, on the other hand - that is an internal switch you flip when you realize that what you are doing is wrong on a personally fundamental level. Not everyone has the same idea of right and wrong, but we each have our own levels of it and we we reach that point where we know what is wrong, want to rectify it, and not repeat it then we have reached the remorse point.

[tryagaintoday]

Nothing to contribute here. But what does WS stand for? I understand that is the the partner having the affair...

[Spark1111]

WS= Wayward spouse

 

BS= Betrayed Spouse

[MizFit]

The best way I can put it is that guilt is caused by external forces, and remorse is entirely internal.

 

A person can make you feel guilt, but they can't make you feel remorse. Only you can do that. In my case, I was so compartmentalized that I was able to pull off cheating without the SO I was with at any given time figuring anything out. They were none the wiser and happy, so I never felt guilt for what I was doing. In some cases, a cheating person can simply just not care enough for their SO to feel guilty about what they are doing. They get enough happiness out of their outside relationships that it counters the need to feel guilty about the primary one. For others, it is a simple matter of feeling justified regardless of how happy or unhappy the primary or outside relationships are.

 

Remorse, on the other hand - that is an internal switch you flip when you realize that what you are doing is wrong on a personally fundamental level. Not everyone has the same idea of right and wrong, but we each have our own levels of it and we we reach that point where we know what is wrong, want to rectify it, and not repeat it then we have reached the remorse point.

 

Very interesting...thanks very much for that. It doesn't explain it so I understand it for myself, but I can put it into the context of where he is and it fits.

 

Thank you...