Author vanillabeach Posted December 17, 2009 Author Share Posted December 17, 2009 IF the OM/OW knows the MM/MW is married then the AP is equally responsible. IF the OM/OW continues after learning the MM/MW is married they again own half the affair. IF the OM/OW does NOT know...then he/she has no culpability. Last I checked it was hard to have an A by yourself. You need a willing partner. And this partner is an equal and joint owner of the A. lots of acronyms... but I guess I see what you mean and yes I agree with you. An affair is a different thing though (worse) Link to post Share on other sites
Author vanillabeach Posted December 17, 2009 Author Share Posted December 17, 2009 It's bad. What are you going to do? ask him not to do it again. what would you do? Link to post Share on other sites
Samantha0905 Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 I don't think there is a problem with going to a strip club, or at least what I thought it would be like - women dancing on stage and stripping naked but well out of reach. That's like watching TV and I really don't see anything wrong with that. It's the private dance and him coming while the stripper was rubbing herself against him. That's not on is it??!! Yes, that's even (much) worse. I was just stating my opinion about my husband being in a strip club. I have nothing against strippers, in general. I used to be good friends with one. She moved away. She was a nice young woman. Link to post Share on other sites
Author vanillabeach Posted December 17, 2009 Author Share Posted December 17, 2009 Yes, that's even (much) worse. I was just stating my opinion about my husband being in a strip club. I have nothing against strippers, in general. I used to be good friends with one. She moved away. She was a nice young woman. I'm sure she had lots of interesting stories to tell ;-) I wouldn't mind hearing some of them! The whole thing is just upsetting because I really didn't think he was the type to do stuff behind my back. But I guess you live and learn... if he is capable then anyone and everyone is Link to post Share on other sites
TheLoneSock Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 well I can't say anything about the stripper, haven't seen her and wouldn't blame her, she was just doing her job, and obviously doing it well... I guess he was really focused he wouldn't have been able to do anything I gues, too many bouncers watching the scene. Or so I am told The point is, is he a premature ejaculator or not? As in, is he this kind of guy: If he's not, then he would have to have touched himself, or had her touch him in order to accomplish that. Link to post Share on other sites
gopher Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 On your friend's body glitter question....Yes, strippers do use that, so he could have gotten it on his face, from her rubbing her chest all over it during a lap dance. But, if he has it on his body? He is likely have some kind of bare chest to bare chest contact...which I doubt is just a lap dance. He is probably cheating on her. Link to post Share on other sites
Author vanillabeach Posted December 17, 2009 Author Share Posted December 17, 2009 The point is, is he a premature ejaculator or not? As in, is he this kind of guy: If he's not, then he would have to have touched himself, or had her touch him in order to accomplish that. well they 'brush' past the guys I guess so there is some light touching involved. and yes, the first time he went was a month after our first baby was born, so there wouldn't have been any sex at home for a while and that probably would have made him come very quickly. Did I mention it wasn't just one private dance? I made him write everything down on paper and apparently it was around 5 dances a night so by that time the build up would have been there... Link to post Share on other sites
Author vanillabeach Posted December 17, 2009 Author Share Posted December 17, 2009 On your friend's body glitter question....Yes, strippers do use that, so he could have gotten it on his face, from her rubbing her chest all over it during a lap dance. But, if he has it on his body? He is likely have some kind of bare chest to bare chest contact...which I doubt is just a lap dance. He is probably cheating on her. He is most definitely cheating on her, there is so much evidence. A hotel in our hometown that she has never been to sending a loyalty card, many many very late nights coming home at 5am after having fallen asleep in a strip club (yeah right!) and so on. But in the end that's her problem not mine really (thankfully!) My problem are 'just' the private dances in the strip club and him not telling me for years... Link to post Share on other sites
smarterthanbefore Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Yes, i consider any type of lap dance cheating and a rule breaker. I would end the relationship. In my opinion, people in committed relationships have no reason to be in a strip club. But every relationship is different and so are the boundaries set by the couple. My boyfriend knows that lap dances are a big no no and instant breakup. Link to post Share on other sites
Author vanillabeach Posted December 17, 2009 Author Share Posted December 17, 2009 Yes, i consider any type of lap dance cheating and a rule breaker. I would end the relationship. In my opinion, people in committed relationships have no reason to be in a strip club. But every relationship is different and so are the boundaries set by the couple. My boyfriend knows that lap dances are a big no no and instant breakup. Yes I probably should have been more explicit to begin with - I told him it was fine to go to a strip club (ages ago). I didn't even know there was such a thing as a private dance. And with the watching from far I would have been ok. Oh well, you live you learn... Link to post Share on other sites
IfWishesWereHorses Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Here's what you do. Explain to him thatyou understand that men are visual creatures. Its very natural, they are made that way. By the same token women love the attention of being looked at as well as the feeling that comes from a man being aroused by that. Let him know that you are a fair minded person and expect the same from him. Explain that to even the score that you are going to pay some lucky son of a gun for the privilage of watching you strip and giving him a lap dance. Once for each time he's done it. Once the score is evened then he can decide if he would like the two of you to continue this behavior. I don't believe that women get the same thing out of male strippers that men do with females. We are asked to understand their compulsion to oogle nnaked women and that is fine as long as they understand our need to be oogled! That is a more accurate comparrison in my mind. Link to post Share on other sites
Woman In Blue Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 It's the private dance and him coming while the stripper was rubbing herself against him. That's not on is it??!! Ugh - what is he, like 16 years old? God, that's utterly pathetic. Quite honestly, I'd just be more disgusted at what a complete pig he is. I can't imagine being that lame. I just can't. Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 Is c*mming from a lap dance cheating? No, but its damn close in my eyes. I was a stripper for about 7yrs and I would have a big problem with my H going to strip clubs. I’d go through the roof if he c*me all over himself while some b*tch was giving him a lap dance. Think about it. Paying some girl he’s attracted to to grind on his c*ck like she’s f*cking him. To me that’s as bad as a hand job. MM don’t even belong in strip clubs. I think men play it down like it’s no big deal in there and women have a view that it’s less intense then it is. Unless it’s a high class gentlemen’s club they’re all pretty bad. It really is a whole different world with only two agendas – getting off and making money. I don’t think I’d like my H engaging in virtual reality interactive porn. BTW there are plenty of MM who hook up with dancers they met at a strip club. I don't think there is a problem with going to a strip club, or at least what I thought it would be like - women dancing on stage and stripping naked but well out of reach. That's like watching TV and I really don't see anything wrong with that. It's the private dance and him coming while the stripper was rubbing herself against him. That's not on is it??!! well I can't say anything about the stripper, haven't seen her and wouldn't blame her, she was just doing her job, and obviously doing it well... I guess he was really focused he wouldn't have been able to do anything I gues, too many bouncers watching the scene. Or so I am told you need to be realistic about the dynamics of a strip club. obviously since he came - there are liberal guidelines around what is allowed at this club. i would venture to say that your version of light rubbing up against him is more mild than what actually happened. have you asked him to specifically explain every move she/he made with each other in order for him to achieve orgasm? you might be surprised at how much it feels like sex, looks like sex when some guys get a private lap dance... especially if the guy spends money (you say he doesn't, but most guys will save specifically for an outing like this). ask him how much he spent, what she did. my xH used to explain to me what the gals did when he went on a few occasions when he was single. they are almost nude, bent over far enough for a man to see any cavity they want to view, pay more money and they pull the g-string to the side - even putting her front side or a$$ close to his face and chest, boobs are swinging and placed in the man's face and rubbed all over his chest, next comes the act of grinding on his c*ck so that he may as well be screwing her anyway. she gets to feel EXACTLY what his c*ck feels like and rub him up and down with boobs on his lips... if no one is watching close he could suck them... if he's wearing shorts and is long enough to poke beyond the shorts - he could enter her if the situation is right and he has paid her some money. i highly doubt he came from limited contact - this isn't the strippers MO. her MO is to keep getting more money by baiting him with further favors. who cleaned him up? most men wouldn't just walk on home without some sort of cover up for the mess they made on themselves... how and where did he clean off? he's left out some important details that may show to what extend he's covered up. the cover up always shows the guilt. he knew he was guilty or he would have told you a long time ago exactly what happened there. i think he owes you some answers. i wouldn't ASK him to not go anymore - i'd TELL him, NEVER again - unless you want a divorce. Link to post Share on other sites
skylarblue Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 Originally Posted by vanillabeach I told him long ago that I wouldn't have a problem with him going to a strip club, thinking that meant going there, sitting at a table with his mates and watching girls on stage (ie far away!) getting undressed. That would have been fine… Some guys just sit at the bar or table, have a few drinks and leave. It’s not all raunchy. Some like to sit on “pervert row” (the rail and seats bordering the stage where the girls dance like 2ft away during set or if the bar is around the stage). The point is guys go to strip clubs to see naked women. Girls go to make money. At the least most girls will hustle a drink (we get commission on sells) and talk, not long if he's not going to spend money, but you can usually hustle at least a lap dance. Some girls are more sexually flirtatious and touchy in their hustle. The only goal is to get the guy to spend as much money as you can, and the more he drinks the easier it gets (the drinks are watered down for the dancers). Lots of girls don’t make the majority of their money in champagnes rooms, but on the floor in lap dance booths. It’s easier to hustle a few $20-25 lap dances in booths from guys than $150-250 for 1/2hr in one shot. The routine is usually to get the guys to do a few dances in the booth and then convince him it’s so much better in the champagne rooms. As far as guys c*mming, I’ve had that happen more than five but less than 10 times in the champagne room. It’s so funny. It really is like f*cking the guy with but his clothes are on. On a different note - do all strippers use body glitter??... Most strippers won’t wear perfume or body glitter if they make their money on lap dances because guys don’t want to take the evidence home to his W/gf. Some clubs won’t let girls wear body glitter because it gets everywhere they sit and then the next customer who sits on the couch gets it on him. Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 Originally Posted by vanillabeach I told him long ago that I wouldn't have a problem with him going to a strip club, thinking that meant going there, sitting at a table with his mates and watching girls on stage (ie far away!) getting undressed. That would have been fine… Some guys just sit at the bar or table, have a few drinks and leave. It’s not all raunchy. Some like to sit on “pervert row” (the rail and seats bordering the stage where the girls dance like 2ft away during set or if the bar is around the stage). The point is guys go to strip clubs to see naked women. Girls go to make money. At the least most girls will hustle a drink (we get commission on sells) and talk, not long if he's not going to spend money, but you can usually hustle at least a lap dance. Some girls are more sexually flirtatious and touchy in their hustle. The only goal is to get the guy to spend as much money as you can, and the more he drinks the easier it gets (the drinks are watered down for the dancers). Lots of girls don’t make the majority of their money in champagnes rooms, but on the floor in lap dance booths. It’s easier to hustle a few $20-25 lap dances in booths from guys than $150-250 for 1/2hr in one shot. The routine is usually to get the guys to do a few dances in the booth and then convince him it’s so much better in the champagne rooms. As far as guys c*mming, I’ve had that happen more than five but less than 10 times in the champagne room. It’s so funny. It really is like f*cking the guy with but his clothes are on. On a different note - do all strippers use body glitter??... Most strippers won’t wear perfume or body glitter if they make their money on lap dances because guys don’t want to take the evidence home to his W/gf. Some clubs won’t let girls wear body glitter because it gets everywhere they sit and then the next customer who sits on the couch gets it on him. skylar, what does a guy specifically get for a lap dance and what does is entitled to get for spending 150-250 for his 1/2 of time? what is the champagne room and what happens there as opposed to the environment for a lap dance? is the lap dance done in the open where others can see - or are they alone, with the bouncer off to the side? have the men ever touched or sucked while having a lap dance with you? do things happen that aren't supposedly allowed? while giving a lap dance - can you tell how big/small a man is, how hard he is? are they allowed to rub themselves while you do your thing? are you allowed to touch them in places you may want to? sorry for specific questions... i hope your don't mind answering - for clarity sake. Link to post Share on other sites
Author vanillabeach Posted December 18, 2009 Author Share Posted December 18, 2009 Ugh - what is he, like 16 years old? God, that's utterly pathetic. Quite honestly, I'd just be more disgusted at what a complete pig he is. I can't imagine being that lame. I just can't. why is it lame? he's not 16 no but I guess he's quite excitable ;-) Link to post Share on other sites
Author vanillabeach Posted December 18, 2009 Author Share Posted December 18, 2009 Here's what you do. Explain to him thatyou understand that men are visual creatures. Its very natural, they are made that way. By the same token women love the attention of being looked at as well as the feeling that comes from a man being aroused by that. Let him know that you are a fair minded person and expect the same from him. Explain that to even the score that you are going to pay some lucky son of a gun for the privilage of watching you strip and giving him a lap dance. Once for each time he's done it. Once the score is evened then he can decide if he would like the two of you to continue this behavior. I don't believe that women get the same thing out of male strippers that men do with females. We are asked to understand their compulsion to oogle nnaked women and that is fine as long as they understand our need to be oogled! That is a more accurate comparrison in my mind. that's actually a really good comparison, thanks. because male strippers are just *ugh* and I definitely wouldn't want to watch one, never mind getting aroused by it! I can't really think of anyone I could strip for or who would want me to?! Then again probably a lot of them would - men are all the same ;-) I could just go and ask randomly. Like the thought, thanks Link to post Share on other sites
Author vanillabeach Posted December 18, 2009 Author Share Posted December 18, 2009 you need to be realistic about the dynamics of a strip club. obviously since he came - there are liberal guidelines around what is allowed at this club. i would venture to say that your version of light rubbing up against him is more mild than what actually happened. have you asked him to specifically explain every move she/he made with each other in order for him to achieve orgasm? you might be surprised at how much it feels like sex, looks like sex when some guys get a private lap dance... especially if the guy spends money (you say he doesn't, but most guys will save specifically for an outing like this). ask him how much he spent, what she did. my xH used to explain to me what the gals did when he went on a few occasions when he was single. they are almost nude, bent over far enough for a man to see any cavity they want to view, pay more money and they pull the g-string to the side - even putting her front side or a$$ close to his face and chest, boobs are swinging and placed in the man's face and rubbed all over his chest, next comes the act of grinding on his c*ck so that he may as well be screwing her anyway. she gets to feel EXACTLY what his c*ck feels like and rub him up and down with boobs on his lips... if no one is watching close he could suck them... if he's wearing shorts and is long enough to poke beyond the shorts - he could enter her if the situation is right and he has paid her some money. i highly doubt he came from limited contact - this isn't the strippers MO. her MO is to keep getting more money by baiting him with further favors. who cleaned him up? most men wouldn't just walk on home without some sort of cover up for the mess they made on themselves... how and where did he clean off? he's left out some important details that may show to what extend he's covered up. the cover up always shows the guilt. he knew he was guilty or he would have told you a long time ago exactly what happened there. i think he owes you some answers. i wouldn't ASK him to not go anymore - i'd TELL him, NEVER again - unless you want a divorce. Thanks for this reply, which I will forward to him and keep you posted on the reply. (I'll take your details out of course!!) I was thinking of writing 'I'd TELL him not to go again' but I won't tell him anything. If he wants to go again I can't stop it and he will have to live with the consequences - ie. be without us. I've shown him for one night what that feels like and I can tell you he didn't like it one bit. So I'm guessing he won't risk it. Then again, I would have guessed he'd tell me if he went to a strip club, and he didn't. So you never know... Link to post Share on other sites
Author vanillabeach Posted December 18, 2009 Author Share Posted December 18, 2009 Originally Posted by vanillabeach I told him long ago that I wouldn't have a problem with him going to a strip club, thinking that meant going there, sitting at a table with his mates and watching girls on stage (ie far away!) getting undressed. That would have been fine… Some guys just sit at the bar or table, have a few drinks and leave. It’s not all raunchy. Some like to sit on “pervert row” (the rail and seats bordering the stage where the girls dance like 2ft away during set or if the bar is around the stage). The point is guys go to strip clubs to see naked women. Girls go to make money. At the least most girls will hustle a drink (we get commission on sells) and talk, not long if he's not going to spend money, but you can usually hustle at least a lap dance. Some girls are more sexually flirtatious and touchy in their hustle. The only goal is to get the guy to spend as much money as you can, and the more he drinks the easier it gets (the drinks are watered down for the dancers). Lots of girls don’t make the majority of their money in champagnes rooms, but on the floor in lap dance booths. It’s easier to hustle a few $20-25 lap dances in booths from guys than $150-250 for 1/2hr in one shot. The routine is usually to get the guys to do a few dances in the booth and then convince him it’s so much better in the champagne rooms. As far as guys c*mming, I’ve had that happen more than five but less than 10 times in the champagne room. It’s so funny. It really is like f*cking the guy with but his clothes are on. On a different note - do all strippers use body glitter??... Most strippers won’t wear perfume or body glitter if they make their money on lap dances because guys don’t want to take the evidence home to his W/gf. Some clubs won’t let girls wear body glitter because it gets everywhere they sit and then the next customer who sits on the couch gets it on him. Thanks for your insight, that really helps! I went along once after it happened but obviously the girls could spot that there wasn't any money to make (my body language would have said it all...) so they avoided us like the plague ;-) The part about the c*ming is interesting. I will forward it to him and see what he replies (again, I will of course leave your details out!) Could I just ask how many months/years you worked in a strip club? Just to get an idea how unlikely it is for guys to c*me there. Thanks! Link to post Share on other sites
Author vanillabeach Posted December 18, 2009 Author Share Posted December 18, 2009 skylar, what does a guy specifically get for a lap dance and what does is entitled to get for spending 150-250 for his 1/2 of time? what is the champagne room and what happens there as opposed to the environment for a lap dance? is the lap dance done in the open where others can see - or are they alone, with the bouncer off to the side? have the men ever touched or sucked while having a lap dance with you? do things happen that aren't supposedly allowed? while giving a lap dance - can you tell how big/small a man is, how hard he is? are they allowed to rub themselves while you do your thing? are you allowed to touch them in places you may want to? sorry for specific questions... i hope your don't mind answering - for clarity sake. good questions, I'd be interested to know too! Link to post Share on other sites
outofthedark Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 There is a club in SF that offers live sex on you. Yep, 2 girls doing eachother, fully naked.. full out girl on girl sex... AND they do this in a private room with you. You cannot touch them BUT they can touch you, they can push their crotches all up in your face, on your junk, etc. BUT you cannot touch them with your hands. As if that matters right??? Link to post Share on other sites
skylarblue Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 Originally Posted by 2sunny you might be surprised at how much it feels like sex, looks like sex when some guys get a private lap dance... especially if the guy spends…my xH used to explain to me what the gals did when he went on a few occasions when he was single. they are almost nude, bent over far enough for a man to see any cavity they want to view, pay more money and they pull the g-string to the side - even putting her front side or a$$ close to his face and chest, boobs are swinging and placed in the man's face and rubbed all over his chest, next comes the act of grinding on his c*ck so that he may as well be screwing her anyway. she gets to feel EXACTLY what his c*ck feels like and rub him up and down with boobs on his lips... if no one is watching close he could suck them... if he's wearing shorts and is long enough to poke beyond the shorts - he could enter her if the situation is right and he has paid her some money. In my experiences you are pretty much right with minor exceptions. Girls in topless bars could get arrested for crotch shots so they are more cautious about doing it, but they will if the guy is spending. Full nude would be just as you described except our g-strings are already removed. How graphic a girl gets depends on the girl and club rules. Girls still have to be discreet and “tactful” in letting guys touch their breasts because its something that’s more “overlooked” (rooms have hidden cameras) than allowed, but other than that your description is fairly accurate. Most girls, myself included, didn’t allow any oral contact. That’s gross. And most girls I’ve worked with won’t let a customer expose himself or have sex (at least in the club). Again, that’s gross. You will get fired. If you accept a proposition or give or take a phone# (other than the dressing room ph#) you can be arrested. Or set the club up to raided if a lot of girls doing it. It happens though. I can remember a couple of times. One girl was immediately fired (remember cameras). The other place didn’t have cameras yet, but girls will come down or expose other dancers who do because 1) raid potential and 2) customers start expecting other girls to do the same thing. Slimeball customers will sometimes expose themselves when you turn away so you sit on their bare c*ck so you always have to look first. Link to post Share on other sites
skylarblue Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 Originally Posted by outofthedark Depends on the club.There is a club in SF that offers live sex on you. Yep, 2 girls doing eachother, fully naked.. full out girl on girl sex... AND they do this in a private room with you. You cannot touch them BUT they can touch you, they can push their crotches all up in your face, on your junk, etc. BUT you cannot touch them with your hands. As if that matters right??? It’s not just SF. That’s been allowed at any “regular” nude club I’ve worked. That can be expensive. And when you put your crotch in a customer’s face you have to factor in a little space to move quickly because customers will sometimes try to lick you. Link to post Share on other sites
skylarblue Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 Originally Posted by vanillabeach Yes I probably should have been more explicit to begin with - I told him it was fine to go to a strip club (ages ago). I didn't even know there was such a thing as a private dance. And with the watching from far I would have been ok. Oh well, you live you learn... Clubs weren’t always friction and VIP rooms. It was table tops, dancing in front of the guy on dancing tables or platforms, but no contact period. When they all started to change over and remodel to include champagne rooms, lap dancing became the norm. Originally Posted by vanillabeach ...Could I just ask how many months/years you worked in a strip club? Just to get an idea how unlikely it is for guys to c*me there. Thanks! I danced for 7years (18-25) and stopped 3yrs ago. I’ve worked 9 or 10 clubs from SoBe to WPB, all nude, one topless. I still hang out at the strips clubs though with friends. Nothing has changed. Link to post Share on other sites
TheLoneSock Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 There is a club in SF that offers live sex on you. Yep, 2 girls doing eachother, fully naked.. full out girl on girl sex... AND they do this in a private room with you. You cannot touch them BUT they can touch you, they can push their crotches all up in your face, on your junk, etc. BUT you cannot touch them with your hands. As if that matters right??? Dude, that is herpes on the face waiting to happen. Best keep your mouth closed during that stuff... Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts