colourz Posted December 16, 2009 Posted December 16, 2009 We've been married for 20 years with 2 great boys. We both work hard at work and home and divide responsibilities to our mutual agreement. Intimacy has been fading from our lives bit by bit for years (pillow talk, touching, holding hands, sex, kissing and just talking). We used to love spending time together, but for the past 10 years, she has been drifting away emotionally and physically. We used to have sex 2-4 times a week and once the boys came along, sex dropped off the map. I very much understand why she would not be in the mood with small munchkins in the house. We discussed the situation at the time and we both thought that once the boys were older we could spend more time together, both enjoying each others company and intimacies. So, 14 years later, we have the same talk every six months, I've recommend marriage counseling over and over, but see doesn't see our lack of time or intimacy as a major problem. She reads late into the night just about very night. If we do have sex, it's a quickie on Sunday morning, perhaps once or twice a month. What's made the whole situation worse was something I did 2 1/2 years ago. I used to snuggle up to her every night for 17 years and one night I thought that if I didn't, she would notice. Well, that was a bad idea, two years later, she still didn't notice and now I'm not interested. The depression is becoming overwhelming at home about our relationship and I have become indifferent to our whole marriage. Now she's wondering why I don't kiss her out of the blue anymore or pay her compliments. I used to comment on her beauty both in and out the bedroom for 18 years, now I no longer find I have the desire to do so. I used to surprise her with presents, kiss her out of the blue, take her on picnics, buy her sexy things but we kept getting more distant. She is very active with her friends, all of which are from broken marriages and is out 2-3 night a week. She is also very active in music and having the kids enrolled in many activities. Even the dog gets an hour with her everyday, I feel like the bottom of the totem pole. I have always been emotionally charged (I am a working artist) and love physical contact and feel that without the spark in our marriage I am loosing my lust for life. I can't imagine life 20 years from now, being even less connected, I find it depressing and frightening. Her parents fought and bickered but stayed together for the family, that's not my idea of a marriage. Thanks for letting me discuss this with the forum. I've been reading this forum for years and have gone well past the idea of just taking a night off for a date (tried that over and over). Is it over? Am I just deluding myself that this will or can get any better. Perhaps yet another attempt to get counseling together?
DestroyerOfWorlds Posted December 16, 2009 Posted December 16, 2009 I feel in a similar situation and I'm only on year 3 of my marriage. I would definately suggest bringing up the marriage councelling again before making any drastic moves. Have you told her just how miserable you are feeling? Maybe if you can stress to her just how much your "lust for life" is being drained she will finally accept your requests for counselling. I ended up having an affair...BAD BAD BAD idea. We are in marriage and individual councelling and she has responded favourably in many aspects so I certainly recommend it. Good luck to you...I know your pain.
hopeful1980 Posted December 16, 2009 Posted December 16, 2009 You mentioned her social life, but what about yours? What do you do outside of your marraige? I feel like you are too available to her. She doesn't seem to desire you and perhaps that's because she doesn't miss you enough. I know you said you've stopped doing all the little things, but if you are still around she probably thinks you will snap out of it and start again eventually. I think you should let her wonder where you are and who you are with. I'm not saying be with someone you shouldn't, but just let her find you mysterious again. Also, what do you look like? I know everyone looks different after 20 years, but do you maintain yourself? You should make yourself more attractive and perhaps she will be more attracted to you.
quankanne Posted December 16, 2009 Posted December 16, 2009 am going out on a limb here, but grab a copy of "The Five Love Languages," which talks about the different ways people "show" their love. From what you've written, it sounds to me that your primary love languages are physical touch and time together, while hers are something completely different. It doesn't mean that you're incompatible, just that you both really need to figure out each others' "languages" and learn how to respond to them. though it floors me that she has no desire to initiate simple things like a stolen kiss or hand-holding, even though she's wondering why YOU don't do those little things anymore ... y'all also ought to look into marriage enrichment sessions, which gives you the tools to better communicate your needs and desires and thoughts. We did a Marriage Encounter weekend 10 years ago through my church, and even my husband – who initially fought tooth and nail against going – says it was the best thing we ever did for our marriage. hope y'all find a working solution, and don't give up hope just yet. Remember, as Dan Cook once said, "It ain't over 'til the fat lady sings."
giotto Posted December 16, 2009 Posted December 16, 2009 welcome to the club! Sorry, not very helpful, but you are not alone... I wish you luck... seriously!
Author colourz Posted December 16, 2009 Author Posted December 16, 2009 Thanks everyone for the support and good ideas. I'm not in a rush to end our marriage, but feel ever more depressed that our situation and relationship may never get better. I run my own business, and always home for dinner and some time with the kids. I take good care of my health, and am very attentive to dressing well and looking my best. If I pay too much attention to my looks, my wife has often mentioned (in the past) that I am vain. I'm not a 25 year old firefighter, nor do I spend much time in front of a mirror. I believe and enjoy dressing up even in my every day life. My wife was very close to being a hippie, and does not always believe that dressing well is a good thing. I've never believed in having affairs or one night stands, but don't have any trouble talking to and attracting the opposite sex. We are both busy people, so I can't say we have much, if any, extra time on our hands. I am only 45, and feel that I still have much of my life to live, why does it fell like It's all over? I hate to think that my lust for life is gone, and as an artist, once the fat lady sings, it is over. I'll look up the suggestion of that book and see if I can find a few ideas. I also see that there are many good suggestions for good reading materials here on the forums. Thanks everyone!
frozensprouts Posted December 17, 2009 Posted December 17, 2009 Hi Colourz, have you told your wife how you feel/ don't feel? My husband says he was feeling that way for some time before he cheated, but he never told me that- I didn't know he was so unhappy. Had I known, we could have sat down together, discussed it, and tried to work out a plan for what to do to make things better. he told me that he never told me about how he was feeling , as he didn't know how to put it into words that wouldn't hurt me. I guess I can understand that, but even so, me being hurt for a little while but knowing that we were working together to make things better would have been so much better a way to go than what he did. i know it may be hard to talk about these things with your wife... sometimes these feelings can be somewhat vague and hard to 'crystallize' into words... but, after 20 years you owe her the chance to see what can be done to repair your relationship. try to... and maybe this time next year you will be reflecting on how you feel like the happiest, luckiest guy in the world to have the wife you do!
Author colourz Posted December 17, 2009 Author Posted December 17, 2009 Yes, we have discussed how I feel, many times. I have been very specific, without trying to hurt her feelings too . You are right "frozensprouts", it is very hard to bring these feeling to surface, it even more difficult to bring them up again and again. She often mentioned how she feels pressured by my honest feelings and often makes an effort for a few weeks. It's not that I think she is unkind or insensitive or being malicious, she just sees the whole relationship different than I. She's a great mom, works harder and longer than most people I have ever met and takes care of many responsibilities at home. I come from a family that talks about everything, her family likes to yell to get ideas across, I find that too stressful and don't respond well. As much as I have been trying (I think) and have remained positive for many years that we will just sort this out, my indifference now takes me by my hand away from the same pattern of reconciling what I think is not working. I was hoping to browse and pick-up some good marriage help books at the library, (ones recommended here) perhaps she would be interested in browsing them too. I'm often depressed when I get home, and cannot lately not get out of it. I'm just confused, not sure if it's me, her, my job, the family, or the stinky wet dog (lol).
giotto Posted December 17, 2009 Posted December 17, 2009 just a quick thought... being depressed or angry about it won't make you more attractive... I did that, and I didn't get anywhere... you have to make yourself more attractive to your wife's eyes, starting with being positive about life. I know it's difficult, but what's the alternative? Looks to me you are just a "friend" to her now, someone to share the family life with, but not romantically... sex is not on top of her list anymore....
Toodamnpragmatic Posted December 17, 2009 Posted December 17, 2009 Sorry, but just search posts by Giotto, JamesM, myself or Mem11363 (who has a good sex life, but loves to add his 2 cents)..... All mid 40's, all with "happy" marriages (outside maybe Giotto), multiple kids, 20+ years together, wife enjoys sex (i.e. orgasms) all trying to answer why sex is not what it should be.... Women will use the word intimacy instead:p. Bad news is that there is plenty of advise, few answers and this place becomes just a great place to vent and know you are not alone......
giotto Posted December 17, 2009 Posted December 17, 2009 Sorry, but just search posts by Giotto, JamesM, myself or Mem11363 (who has a good sex life, but loves to add his 2 cents)..... All mid 40's, all with "happy" marriages (outside maybe Giotto), multiple kids, 20+ years together, wife enjoys sex (i.e. orgasms) all trying to answer why sex is not what it should be.... Women will use the word intimacy instead:p. Bad news is that there is plenty of advise, few answers and this place becomes just a great place to vent and know you are not alone...... my marriage is not happy but it isn't unhappy... Obviously, sex is not a priority for your wife anymore and I doubt this will change... if it makes you depressed, then there's only one way out: divorce, especially if she doesn't want to do any more counselling... I don't know about you, but when things get to this stage, there is too much resentment to be able to fix things... this is my experience, but there are others that have succeded... my problem is that I have a very long memory...
frozensprouts Posted December 17, 2009 Posted December 17, 2009 Q- have you told your wife why you want sex? ( I am not trying to sound "snarky" or ask a stupid question here) In this area, our situations are very different, but I know that with three small kids, two of whom have "issues", by the end of the day, I'm really tired. My husband started treating sex like it was only for "his benefit", and started turning any physical sign of affection into "yehaw... time for a "roll in the hay". I started to feel so used... and that really made me feel bad. I don't think that was his intention what so ever, but it was how I felt. I couldn't even hold his hand or give him a hug without him seeing it as in invitation to have sex. Like I said, i felt really bad. I think a large part of our problem was that he didn't understand how tired I was, and that i really did need maybe half an hour in the evening to "decompress' after our kids went to bed, we could certainly do that together ( watch a movie, talk while I cleaned up, snuggle up together on the couch), and then once I felt more relaxed, I would be much more open to his advances. For his part, i think that it was kind of a "vicious cycle'- the more he pushed, the more "used" I felt, the more used I felt, the less I wanted it, the less I wanted it, the harder he pushed. Talking to each other with the help of a counselor helped us to see things from the other person's viewpoint, which certainly made a difference. (now I hope I can get him to understand that i just can't keep doing the three or four times a day thing...right now, he's gone ( deployed) but when he gets back, we'll have to talk some more) 1
angie2443 Posted December 17, 2009 Posted December 17, 2009 Sorry you're going through this. I know what it feels like to work so hard on something when the other person involved doesn't seem to care much. I wish I knew what to tell you. I wanted to recommend one more book to you. Its called, "The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work". It's by John Gottman. I think the book can work wonders if both people are open to it. My husband wasn't exactly open to it or other books on the subject of marriage. I think the biggest part of the battle in making a marriage succeed is having both people in the marriage working for it. I hope things get better for you.
Author colourz Posted December 17, 2009 Author Posted December 17, 2009 Thanks for letting me vent, it's also a great community here that offers good ideas, support and no one's really pushing blame. I think on top of some good reading I will recommend and discuss going to see a marriage counselor again and perhaps take the lead. Many parts of our marriage work well, and we both have a lot invested in our home and family. I've always been a hopeless romantic, and thought that after many years of burning the candle at both ends raising a family and a home, we would again have so time together to be spontaneous and do things together.
angie2443 Posted December 17, 2009 Posted December 17, 2009 Thanks for letting me vent, it's also a great community here that offers good ideas, support and no one's really pushing blame. I think on top of some good reading I will recommend and discuss going to see a marriage counselor again and perhaps take the lead. Many parts of our marriage work well, and we both have a lot invested in our home and family. I've always been a hopeless romantic, and thought that after many years of burning the candle at both ends raising a family and a home, we would again have so time together to be spontaneous and do things together. Just wanted to say, if you go the MC route again, please make sure you get one that is actually trained in MC and not just a generic counselor. Also, if you go, make sure that the counceling is actually helping. Some counselors are just better at certain situations than others. My H and I went, and although our counselor was a wise woman and IMO would have made a gread IC, she wasn't so good in helping us in our marriage.
Enema Posted December 17, 2009 Posted December 17, 2009 (edited) I would say the same thing to a woman: You can't and shouldn't try to change a person. She is a fully grown person with her own ideas and attitudes that have changed over the last two decades. Hey, we all change over time - it's unfortunate, but often people develop in ways that cease making their partner happy. You can't force her to be someone else, change her personality and start doing things that will please you. If a person no longer ticks enough boxes for you to be happy... time to quietly move on rather than grasping desperately as you're dragged into a depressing hell. Edited December 17, 2009 by Enema
whichwayisup Posted December 18, 2009 Posted December 18, 2009 We've been married for 20 years with 2 great boys. We both work hard at work and home and divide responsibilities to our mutual agreement. Intimacy has been fading from our lives bit by bit for years (pillow talk, touching, holding hands, sex, kissing and just talking). We used to love spending time together, but for the past 10 years, she has been drifting away emotionally and physically. We used to have sex 2-4 times a week and once the boys came along, sex dropped off the map. I very much understand why she would not be in the mood with small munchkins in the house. We discussed the situation at the time and we both thought that once the boys were older we could spend more time together, both enjoying each others company and intimacies. So, 14 years later, we have the same talk every six months, I've recommend marriage counseling over and over, but see doesn't see our lack of time or intimacy as a major problem. She reads late into the night just about very night. If we do have sex, it's a quickie on Sunday morning, perhaps once or twice a month. What's made the whole situation worse was something I did 2 1/2 years ago. I used to snuggle up to her every night for 17 years and one night I thought that if I didn't, she would notice. Well, that was a bad idea, two years later, she still didn't notice and now I'm not interested. The depression is becoming overwhelming at home about our relationship and I have become indifferent to our whole marriage. Now she's wondering why I don't kiss her out of the blue anymore or pay her compliments. I used to comment on her beauty both in and out the bedroom for 18 years, now I no longer find I have the desire to do so. I used to surprise her with presents, kiss her out of the blue, take her on picnics, buy her sexy things but we kept getting more distant. She is very active with her friends, all of which are from broken marriages and is out 2-3 night a week. She is also very active in music and having the kids enrolled in many activities. Even the dog gets an hour with her everyday, I feel like the bottom of the totem pole. I have always been emotionally charged (I am a working artist) and love physical contact and feel that without the spark in our marriage I am loosing my lust for life. I can't imagine life 20 years from now, being even less connected, I find it depressing and frightening. Her parents fought and bickered but stayed together for the family, that's not my idea of a marriage. Thanks for letting me discuss this with the forum. I've been reading this forum for years and have gone well past the idea of just taking a night off for a date (tried that over and over). Is it over? Am I just deluding myself that this will or can get any better. Perhaps yet another attempt to get counseling together? I think you need to write your post down, paper and pen and let her read it. Sit beside her and say, This is how I feel, and we need to change things between us because if we don't start making efforts, putting eachother first, our marriage is heading down the path of separation or divorce. LET HER KNOW just how unhappy you are, but also add that you DO love her and want her to 'need' you, 'desire' you like before. Somehow you two have to reconnect as husband and wife, and get out of the mom/dad role, brother/sister relationship that has slipped into your lives. You've given up trying and she doesn't really seem to mind either way. For the sake of your kids, your family, BOTH of you must work together to make this better.
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