meerkat stew Posted December 16, 2009 Posted December 16, 2009 My resentment about the current state of gender relations stems more from politics and the workplace, but does bleed over into relationships also. I came of sexual age in the early 80s, and have been told by prevailing culture for the entirety of my adult life that as a white man in the U.S., I am either a pervert, pedophile, stalker, abuser, crook, cheater, player, defacto slavemaster or dupe, and that my natural desire for sex is alternatively either repellent and unwholesome, or completely acceptable, depending not on any objective criteria, but rather entirely on how the woman who is the subject of my attention perceives me as a mating prospect. I can deal with that though. Men, specifically white men, are bashed mercilessly in U.S. culture in every cultural and media outlet, and we don't have the emotional support network most women have so we vent it out here on the net. You don't like that? Tough. But actually, I can deal with being bashed by 200 different images a day pretty well too. Demoralizing, but not all that big a deal because I'm a man, not a woman. Despite the bashing, despite the reverse sexism that no one cares about, despite the cultural onslaught designed to emasculate me, I have created a happy, healthy, prosperous social life for myself with many male and female friends, and have had many happy relationships over the years. I attract more women at this point in my life, and have more sex than ever, so on that level I get by fine. I am not bitter about my life, it has been blessed, and massively fortunate compared to others, but does it mean I should stand silently and tolerate lies, and cultural and political machinations going forward? I will not deal with that. I am still told, to this day, that women in the U.S. remain second class citizens and victims of some good ole boy patriarchy that neither I nor anyone I know benefitted from one iota. I'm still told that BS factors like a wage gap or glass ceiling exist in society when they so plainly do not other than in the bad statistics used to manipulate women's naivete and gullibility politically. I have watched women benefit from social, cultural and political policies and cultural double standards over and over again at my direct, qualifiable and quantifiable expense. This is where I draw the line at being silent, and if it means people simplify it into assuming I think women are "the enemy" fine, thoroughly inaccurate, but fine. I think the above sums up my and many of my contemporary male friends' attitudes accurately. We have managed to have happy lives despite gaining no benefit whatsoever from the past, yet have been presented with the full bill for the cataclysmic transformation of the present. I can stomach that, life has been infinitely more fair to me than many on the planet, but I can not and will not stomach being told I still have more to pay, or that I am somehow still to blame as some white male oppressor of women, minorities or anyone else. Have had quite enough of that over the past 30 years, yet still hear it each... and... every... day. Enjoy the rapidly forming backlash, the declining marriage rate, and the shortage of men who want to marry and have families in the U.S. going forward. It is going to get worse before it gets better because the generation of men in the U.S. just behind me, the men I know of that generation at least, is even more fed up than mine is. Unfortunately, the privileged attitudes I see from lots of women both in daily life and on the net means there will be no quick end to the brewing gender conflicts, nor will there be any winner.
Pyro Posted December 16, 2009 Posted December 16, 2009 don't forget to tell me I'm too selfish to realize that I'm completely delusional before dismissing what I have to say. Exactly. I work with this one woman who high and low fives (and even a few behind the back) when she hears about other women cheating. She represents every single woman in the world. It's so sad. Men just want to be the breadwinner and come home to a nice accommodating wife who has dinner on the table and sweetly smelling babies tucked in their cribs, but there are no good women left in the world. Except one. And she's suspect, too, sometimes. :lmao:
CLC2008 Posted December 16, 2009 Posted December 16, 2009 Weenies... Turned a nice thread into crap. Way to go!
Green Posted December 16, 2009 Posted December 16, 2009 What things? What I have somehow miraculously escaped? Heartbreak? Sorrow? Nope, I've known that. I haven't gone through a divorce - that's true. I am not dismissing the pain people are in. I do feel, however, that this negative stereotyping of each gender only contributes to the pain. It doesn't give anyone hope, or help anyone actually figure out how to really meet and get to know someone. Two lines stick out at me from your origional post "Why are there so many war-of-the-sexes threads on this forum?" and "I don't get it. I wish more people enjoyed dating." Calling them war of the sex threads in itself is an over generalization of peoples problems and I can only guess to which threads you are refering to but if you listed 5 threads I could show you why. And why should people enjoy dating? I think most people just don't want to feel lonely.
Author Kamille Posted December 16, 2009 Author Posted December 16, 2009 The media is pretty violent in stereotyping many social categories right now - but there is still ample diversity in how white masculinity is represented. From Alec Baldwin to John Hamm- there are some pretty interesting portrayals of white men in the media. But I do hear where you're coming from Meerkat Stew. Yes, the rules of the game are changing and both men and women are figuring it out. Yet, it isn't 'social movements' that have changed so much as the economy. This knowledge economy requires more and more workers on the work-force, preferably workers with great communicative skills that you don't have to pay too much. Guess which gender best fits that demographic??? I feel that the resentment we displace onto gender is misplaced. People feel a loss of identity, granted. But how does blaming another group of humans actually help to solve that crisis?
Author Kamille Posted December 16, 2009 Author Posted December 16, 2009 Weenies... Turned a nice thread into crap. Way to go! Oh don't give up CLC! I'm hoping we can discuss gender and actually hear each other out.
Author Kamille Posted December 16, 2009 Author Posted December 16, 2009 Two lines stick out at me from your origional post "Why are there so many war-of-the-sexes threads on this forum?" and "I don't get it. I wish more people enjoyed dating." Calling them war of the sex threads in itself is an over generalization of peoples problems and I can only guess to which threads you are refering to but if you listed 5 threads I could show you why. And why should people enjoy dating? I think most people just don't want to feel lonely. I didn't have specific threads in mind. It's just the general sentiment. Little comments people make here and there which present either men and women in a rather negative light. but feel free to explain how I am overgeneralizing and being insensitive to people's problems. And why do people feel lonely just because they're not dating? Like I said: why wait for love to make friends, go out, spend time with your family, get hobbies? Should my life really just revolve around one person?
CLC2008 Posted December 16, 2009 Posted December 16, 2009 Oh don't give up CLC! I'm hoping we can discuss gender and actually hear each other out. I'm not giving up. I'm just not in the mood
Author Kamille Posted December 16, 2009 Author Posted December 16, 2009 I'm not giving up. I'm just not in the mood Hear you! I think I can't name threads (for Green) because I have been avoiding the ones I find problematic.
Pyro Posted December 16, 2009 Posted December 16, 2009 Hear you! I think I can't name threads (for Green) because I have been avoiding the ones I find problematic. Just close your eyes and randomly pick out any of Woggles threads.
Author Kamille Posted December 16, 2009 Author Posted December 16, 2009 Kamille! Are you "-hands"?!?!? Could you imagine??? That's an awesome LS rumor to start. Let me know if it catches on.
Pyro Posted December 16, 2009 Posted December 16, 2009 Could you imagine??? That's an awesome LS rumor to start. Let me know if it catches on. You'd have to come up with a ton of anal jokes and fast to be convincing.
Star Gazer Posted December 16, 2009 Posted December 16, 2009 Could you imagine??? That's an awesome LS rumor to start. Let me know if it catches on. The avvie threw me off!
norajane Posted December 16, 2009 Posted December 16, 2009 Hear you! I think I can't name threads (for Green) because I have been avoiding the ones I find problematic. If Green can decipher the Japanese women fetish thread, that would be...a feat. It started off about why men have this fetish, quickly turned into a Western/American woman bashing thread, then all the stuff about subservience and breadwinning came up, and then it just turned into bashing. 17 pages of it, most of which I skipped. Maybe Green could decipher a page of it, and that would be helpful.
Author Kamille Posted December 16, 2009 Author Posted December 16, 2009 You have to come with a ton of anal I do find it hard to contain myself.
Star Gazer Posted December 16, 2009 Posted December 16, 2009 I do find it hard to contain myself. Is that why your pink trunk sprays liquid?
Pyro Posted December 16, 2009 Posted December 16, 2009 I do find it hard to contain myself. :lmao: Well played.
Author Kamille Posted December 16, 2009 Author Posted December 16, 2009 If Green can decipher the Japanese women fetish thread, that would be...a feat. Oh yes, that's definitely one I avoided opening. I imagined it could only turn out the way you describe. Okay, Green. The Japanese women fetish thread. How is Calling them war of the sex threads in itself is an over generalization of peoples problems what could we do to address the problems are facing in these threads?
norajane Posted December 16, 2009 Posted December 16, 2009 Or, if Green prefers, there is also the "let's pick apart the problems in the dating market thread" where women wield the power of the pussy, dammit, but it is impossible to find a normal woman who is not: - obese - bipolar/on anti-depressants - childless - an alcoholic or on drugs - materialistic
Author Kamille Posted December 16, 2009 Author Posted December 16, 2009 I'll be your friend, Kamille. Well - I may be naive and innocent - but even I know sharks can't be trusted! You're cute though. Maybe we could hang.
Author Kamille Posted December 16, 2009 Author Posted December 16, 2009 (edited) - obese - bipolar/on anti-depressants - childless - an alcoholic or on drugs - materialistic What??? We're allowing men to have criteria now? That's the thing that I find most amazing. People who radicalize gender differences actually end up accusing the other gender of exactly the same things. Men all cheat - women all cheat Men can't be trusted - women can't be trusted Women have all the power - men have all the power. Men are superficial-women are superficial Yadi yadi ya Just try to live without those modes of thinking and see what happens! Edited December 16, 2009 by Kamille
jerbear Posted December 16, 2009 Posted December 16, 2009 Just try to live without those modes of thinking and see what happens!Are you saying men don't think?
betamanlet Posted December 16, 2009 Posted December 16, 2009 If people were honest, and not trying to be something they aren't, then we wouldn't be doing this. But when there's a society that basically says a woman can cheat left and right because she's entitled to find the perfect guy, we've got a problem, because a guy doing that would be labelled a "pig". So long as we treat EVERYONE the same, then there's no longer a problem. I've actually been told that I was being "unreasonable" for expecting my past girlfriends to actually be faithful to me.
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