White Flower Posted January 5, 2010 Posted January 5, 2010 Sometimes I wonder if he thinks about me, and it doesnt matter, and I'll never know, but I guess you can't help have those thoughts sometimes? After 4.5 years I have to wonder if he still thinks of me as he drives past my apartment building on his way home, or if he's gotten to where he doesn't give it a second thought and its just another building to pass on the drive home. Or if he sees the books I bought for him, signed first copes that I knew he'd love, sitting in plain sight in his house on the bookshelves, where his wife likely sees them every day and has no clue that her husband's ex-OW gave them to him. I wonder if he ever picks them up and looks at them and smiles knowing someone who really cared about him gave those to him. Or if he's just forgotten, or worse, grown to resent me somehow for being that constant temptation in his life. Not that I made him cheat or anything, but people often want to blame other people when they're feeling guilty, and I guarantee you his wife has been pissed off for months following their last D-Day. I saw pictures of them online and you can tell by the body language in the photos that there is some tense awkwardness in the way they are standing and leaning away from each other even though he's got his arm around her in one photo. But hey....she got over it the other ten times she caught him lying, I suppose she's decided to do it again. Anyway I'll be ok, I just have days sometimes when Im a bit more cynical and longing than usual for those moments we used to share, even if deep down I know they were fleeting, at best. But man, for fleeting moments, they were unduly intense. surely it will exist again with someone else, but that remains largely to be seen.... KG, Isn't this the same MM that wouldn't give you the password to his secret account when you wanted to delete some pictures of yourself? How did you ever get beyond that? The part I bolded I relate to. I wonder if they've been cleaned off the shelf for having too much dust on them or if they ever made it into the house. I'll never know.
silverplanets Posted January 5, 2010 Posted January 5, 2010 Out of interest I renewed contact with my MW after 5 years of complete no contact (I left the country to get over her). She chased me down through friends and I never replied the one day after 5 years I don't know what happened but I decided that I would just to understand what happened. Not going to skip to what happened next but just to share what she told me at that point: - that yes she still missed me and missed me almost every day of her marriage (I was sad for her for that, no-one should live like that) - that she called her second child after me (which she did) - that she still had everything I gave her (and she did) So, yes, he will be missing you like crazy BUT and this is a BIG but ... is he missing you enough to do the decent thing by his wife and let her move to a new life (no he is not). Does he love YOU enough to do the decent thing and categorically let you go - no he does not, he's fishing to try and see if you're still available in some way. He is holding his wifes life in limbo and also trying to do the same on yours - all rather than work out what he wants and be willing to commit to it. He may claim that he is the victim and just can't decide etc but that's just in his head ... the victims are you and the wife .. neither of whom is he allowing to move on. He is behaving like a child ... not accepting responsibility and not accepting the need to behave responsible to others. So yes, he stares and pines at the books ... you can be sure of that. And he does so without any thought to how demeaning that is to his wife. If he is back with her then he should have thrown them away ... out of respect for her as a human being. He won't have though, because it allows him to feel a victim and hard done by, without the need to do anything about it. This is nothing to do with you or his wife ... this is his lack of maturity and emotional responsibility ... if he does ever leave his wife make him live on his own for 2-3 years and grow up to accept responsibility for his own actions. And you ... trust me .. you deserve someone better ... someone who will be there on christmas day etc and someone who will be able to spend time with you .... and trust me, eventually, you will find someone who can do this AND blows your mind in the love department. Move on and live your own 2010 And yes, you are doing fantastic to maintain non contact. Do whatever it takes on the dark days to do this ... switch the computer of if necessary, go out, take yourself to a cinema and just hide ... anything to remove the physical way of contacting him when you are at your lowest. As for the keepsakes, I understand this (I really do !!) but perhaps you could just try putting them in a box initally and then putting them out of sight (or ideally ask someone else to store them) .. then just test seven days later how you feel about it ... I pretty much guarantee you will feel a deeper sense of peace about it all ... Same for any old emails etc ... I archived mine of to an external disk drive ... and then slowly moved that drive from desk, to shelf, and finally to a box ... each move made me feel better about myself Wish you the best Chris :-)
Author KismetGirl Posted January 6, 2010 Author Posted January 6, 2010 KG, Isn't this the same MM that wouldn't give you the password to his secret account when you wanted to delete some pictures of yourself? How did you ever get beyond that? The part I bolded I relate to. I wonder if they've been cleaned off the shelf for having too much dust on them or if they ever made it into the house. I'll never know. Aye WF, it is. He said it was because he'd also kept photos of his wife on there. Supposedly he tried to bring our little photo games home to improve his marriage, and she aquiesced to his requests so long as he promised to erase them, and instead of erasing them he emailed them to himself on his secret email account. According to him there were photos of myself, and of his wife on there, and that he didn't want me to look because her photos were there as well. Perhaps he thought in a fit of insanity and jealousy I'd take them and go show them to her, or plaster them on the internet I have no idea. Not that I've ever indicated I'm capable of such insanity. I could go insane with conspiracy theories of him having a harem of photos of different women, but I don't think he did, and frankly don't care anymore. He promised me he'd erase everything and I guess he did, as I tried emailing that same address once not long ago and got a message back from the server telling me that email had been disabled. So I guess once the affair was over he really did get rid of that email address, as it was the reason he was caught last time. I mean, who checks their secret OW email address on their home computer and then doesn't clear the history? He never was very good at this whole affair thing. Anyway, I know that my books made it into his house, and he used to say all the time how he kept them in a special glass case in his home office. I mean, he's a book collector, and I got him a couple of really nice bloody books. Even if they weren't from me he'd keep them, and I'm pretty sure his wife just assumes they are from his own collecting. I doubt she noticed they were added to the lot at all. I doubt she notices alot of things about their marriage. Same goes for him. Nothing I can do about that, though.
Author KismetGirl Posted January 6, 2010 Author Posted January 6, 2010 Out of interest I renewed contact with my MW after 5 years of complete no contact (I left the country to get over her). She chased me down through friends and I never replied the one day after 5 years I don't know what happened but I decided that I would just to understand what happened. Not going to skip to what happened next but just to share what she told me at that point: - that yes she still missed me and missed me almost every day of her marriage (I was sad for her for that, no-one should live like that) - that she called her second child after me (which she did) - that she still had everything I gave her (and she did) So, yes, he will be missing you like crazy BUT and this is a BIG but ... is he missing you enough to do the decent thing by his wife and let her move to a new life (no he is not). Does he love YOU enough to do the decent thing and categorically let you go - no he does not, he's fishing to try and see if you're still available in some way. He is holding his wifes life in limbo and also trying to do the same on yours - all rather than work out what he wants and be willing to commit to it. He may claim that he is the victim and just can't decide etc but that's just in his head ... the victims are you and the wife .. neither of whom is he allowing to move on. He is behaving like a child ... not accepting responsibility and not accepting the need to behave responsible to others. So yes, he stares and pines at the books ... you can be sure of that. And he does so without any thought to how demeaning that is to his wife. If he is back with her then he should have thrown them away ... out of respect for her as a human being. He won't have though, because it allows him to feel a victim and hard done by, without the need to do anything about it. This is nothing to do with you or his wife ... this is his lack of maturity and emotional responsibility ... if he does ever leave his wife make him live on his own for 2-3 years and grow up to accept responsibility for his own actions. And you ... trust me .. you deserve someone better ... someone who will be there on christmas day etc and someone who will be able to spend time with you .... and trust me, eventually, you will find someone who can do this AND blows your mind in the love department. Move on and live your own 2010 And yes, you are doing fantastic to maintain non contact. Do whatever it takes on the dark days to do this ... switch the computer of if necessary, go out, take yourself to a cinema and just hide ... anything to remove the physical way of contacting him when you are at your lowest. As for the keepsakes, I understand this (I really do !!) but perhaps you could just try putting them in a box initally and then putting them out of sight (or ideally ask someone else to store them) .. then just test seven days later how you feel about it ... I pretty much guarantee you will feel a deeper sense of peace about it all ... Same for any old emails etc ... I archived mine of to an external disk drive ... and then slowly moved that drive from desk, to shelf, and finally to a box ... each move made me feel better about myself Wish you the best Chris :-) Thanks Chris Alas, he is never going to leave his wife. He doesn't hate her. In fact, Im sure he loves her like you'd love your best friend. Like you'd love the mother of your three children. There's no point, he isn't going anywhere, least of all while his children are all still toddlers, infants and the oldest is not even 8 years old yet. He's the breadwinner, she's the stay at home mom, they have a big happy family thing going on, it's just all too perfect. Granted, their marriage is not perfect, but its far from bad and the three kids kind of cinches the deal. His family is important to him so I knew a long time ago that given the option to be a part-time dad and give up his house, family and whole way of life, he'd never take it. The only thing he's really missing in his life is a romantic spark, that passion that people all really want. He doesn't have that at home and that's what made him stray to begin with, but it isn't enough for him to leave. Divorce is like failure, wrought with loss far outweighing the potential happiness with a new partner. He'd have to be far more miserable than he is to want to leave. Will he want to leave in...say....15 years when his kids are all teens/adults? Maybe. Maybe at that point it'll change, but I can't sit and wait around until I'm in my 40's for him to get to that level right? I want to believe you, and part of me gets just some small, tiny satisfaction in thinking that maybe, maybe at least he misses me like I miss him. He admitted to missing me before when we'd gone for months without seeing each other, so maybe he does, I don't know. In the end it seems like it doesnt matter....but sadly sometimes Im jealous. For all intensive purposes he has a perfect life, really. The "dream" on the outside- house in the burbs, three adorable kids, wife who adores him, friends and family abounding, white picket fence even. I mean, she doesn't really want to have sex with him, but she seems to do it out of wifely duty anyway, so who cares if she never actually initiates, right? That part I envy him, the whole happy family thing, and at the same time I guess I shouldn't, because I would hope to never be with someone that I was ok with cheating on for four years. I've spent most of my life single for the pure reason that I've always refused to be "comfortable" with someone. I've had relationships, dated a million and a half guys in my life, but am very resistant to call anyone my boyfriend unless I really, really have that spark. And that title has been given to very few people for that very reason. I want to believe that I will find someone who blows my mind in the love department but I have to say I am lying terribly when I say I have hope for that. I really don't. I've almost completely relegated myself to believe that, at best, I will find someone I am comfortable with. But I'm a pretty cynical person sometimes so don't mind me :-) As for the mementos, emails, whatever, i try not to look at them or think of them. Hard, but, they make me feel awful still. I haven't gotten to a point yet where I can be reminded of him or look at him and just feel ok about it. It's not as bad as it was I guess. I don't cry over him anymore. But he's changed me. I used to be a romantic, I used to be one of those hopeless romantics, even. I used to think there was someone out there for everyone, someone that would make you happy you could wake up next to them every day. Im not sure I really believe that anymore. I hope one day I can go back to that, but for now I can't. I hate that he seems to still have a hold on me in that way, but it is what it is. I'm still a caring, intelligent, funny person. I believe that love exists....I just don't have much faith anymore in finding it myself. C'est la vie. Anyway, thanks for the note. Having a cynical day. Don't mind me.
silverplanets Posted January 6, 2010 Posted January 6, 2010 KismetGirl It's ok to be cynical one day, down the next, up the next and who knows what the one after ... the main thing is you let yourself feel these emotions but don't make any large descision based on any one. One thing it's worth remembering through this up and down roller coaster of emotions though is who has put you on it. OK - you to some degree by getting involved in the first place (but I am sure you already kick yourself for that) but in the main Him .. this person who your brain keeps telling you that you miss is the one that is causing all this pain in you. And, as you rightly point out, he has spared himself any of it by his choice. You've been left to sink or swim by yourself, he's not planning to help you, and if you feel angry then that's probably one of the reasons why. When you say his marriage is not perfect be careful not to deceive yourself - his marriage IS perfect (as you allude to later in your comment) , he has three kids, a wife who lets or forgives him his strayings and all the material possessions and security that being a couple brings. Why isn't that perfect ???? What's not perfect is YOUR life. Your life has been trashed by your faith in him and now that it's time to focus on you, where is he??? that's right .. no where that you need him to be. Also, and this may be hard, but you seem strong enough to take it .. he WILL have been sleeping with her .. trust me ! How else have they survived birthdays, christmas, valentines and holidays ... if he wasn't sleeping with her for that long then SHE would have dragged him to counselling ... women have needs as well as men. In his mind, though, he won't have been sleeping with her because at that time he will have just been "doing it for the kids"/"doing it cause he had to" etc etc ... and when he then saw you he wouldn't mention it because he "loves you" and "doesn't want to hurt you" ... He probably believes this bull***t to quite a deep level in his mind as well, so much so that he can look you in the eye and swear it's the truth .. because in his own logic it will be. And if you're not quite sure he's capable of this, then imagine how he's looked his wife in the eye over the 4 years and said that he loves her and there's no-one else ... I bet he was just as believable (actually i know he was, otherwise she would have kicked up a fuss). So he may be the innocent victim in as much as (perhaps) he hasn't done this maliciously but on the other hand ignorance is not an excuse here - HE was the only one at any time who knew the truth and he chose to withold that (consciously or sub-consciouly) from you and his wife. I'm not sure how it is for you, but I found one of the main difficulties for me was accepting that they could have lied to me like this (and the sheer fact they remained where they were meant they did) and also that I could have believed it. My brain just could not seem to compute deceit on this level. The only good news is that (at last) he has revealed his priorities .. and sadly they are not you ... so from that point on what he does/does not do is no longer YOUR responsibility. What is your responsibility is to look after yourself, let yourself feel the pain, scream and shout as you need, do whatever you need to a) keep getting up every day and b) move on from this. I'm with you on the hating the hold that they seem to keep over you. I believe the reason to be a subtle change that happens to the OW or OM during an affair ... whilst you start of as an independant person pretty soon you can't make any descision without checking with the MM/MW first .. and then in general they have to check it with their partner (or at least check what their partners plans are and work out how if their is a chance to lie/manipulate the situation to get what they want) ... eg if you want see them one night then a) you have to ask them b) they have to check with their wife and work out what she's doing c) they can then get back to you with a yes (ie they can manipulate around their wife's plans to see you) or a no (their wifes plans mean they can't manipulate a situation to see you) ... So immediately you are not in control of your destiny any more ... you are disempowered. In a normal relationship you would ask them and they would answer ... immediate and no disempowerment. So you basically loose control over your time. Of course, because you are vested in seeming them you don't realise this until it's too late. And if you try and re-define your borders/independance then you face the constant unsaid threat that if you don't play ball then they might choose not to leave their partner. It's a NO-WIN situation for the OW/OM ... you are not only second to his needs, you are second to his wife's needs, the kids needs, the grandparent needs ... All you have is the crumbs .. and so trapped are you that you eventually start feeling grateful for every single one ... how many times have you been grateful to get a single rushed call over a weekend. Of course the reality is that maybe you get 5 mins of a rushed call but she gets every other minute of him for that weekend ... And he makes the choice to do that each and every day. He could choose otherwise but he doesn't ... he chooses her over you every single day and yet tells you otherwise. I now have one single rule which will protect me from all of these people ... no married women/women in relationships ... PERIOD. No If's, but's of anything. I respect and love myself too much to disempower myself like that again. You mention that whilst you can kind of see that you might meet someone again that you just can't get yourself to believing it. And i wanted to share with you that I've not met anyone else, so I'm not preaching from the luxury of a perfect ending. I now live in a foriegn country, away from my friends of 9 years, with my daughter and having to start everything again ... alone. But would I swap that to go back into that hell of living of crumbs and promises .. heck no. I may not be sorted yet but I am sorted enough to see that I am getting better every week and month and that, once I stopped waiting for their approval on everything I did then I started achieving things .. small at first but slowly bigger. I have not rushed myself, not denied myself my emotions, I have just loved myself for having the guts to commit from my side and also love myself for having the courage to keep getting up every day during the really hard parts. I still think about them far too often but I am at the stage now where if I was offered a magic pill that would remove them from my mind then I would take it. Not out of anger, or loss, or self pity .. but because I recognise that thinking of them is a waste of my time and don't want to do it. of course there is no magic pill - I just need to focus on managing my mind to a new way of behaviour .. it's just a habit and whilst i wasn't strong enough to tackle it earlier in the process I am now .. it's one of the last left-overs of this waste of time left and I want to close it down. So how do i know I will meet someone? Simple .. I know I am capable of immense love and that I am a wonderful person ... being mucked about by an emotionally insecure and immature child in an adult's body does not change who I am ... it's just a pointer that I need a few more boundries around me to flilter our the dross. You've wasted 4 years on this chump - imagine the number of decent guys you've never met during this time because you were keeping yourself for chumpo. Now i've stopped feeling sorry for myself I notice signals and glances all over the place ... I flirt occasionally but am not ready for anything more yet ... but when I am I am confident that there will be lots of people to meet and that, provided I filter out the unsuitable, there will be one there who will "do it for me" AND be able to commit to a relationship. Keep going for yourself ... you're worth it (and he never was !)
Author KismetGirl Posted January 8, 2010 Author Posted January 8, 2010 (edited) Silverplanets, At the end of the day, my pain is largely my own fault. Granted, he was the married one, and had the responsibility to be faithful, so in that respect the pain caused to his wife is mostly on his head. But my own pain? Well, even if he knew what he was doing to me, which he did to an extent, he was normally very honest with me. He never told me he was going to leave her, he never implied he wanted a future with me. In fact, he stated quite clearly that he loved his family and had no intention of leaving his kids, and that he felt his marriage was great, given the idea that marriage is a friendship. His view of "marriage" was that a man and woman got along well, didn't argue excessively, and were essentially good friends, and convinced himself that the lack of desire/passion/sex was just something to be put up with and a normal thing. Granted, relationships can lose their spark over years, but he and his wife never had it by his own admission....he married her because she was "comfortable and felt like home." I always found it to be pretty cliche that here he was, an Irish-Englishman, fresh from the UK, no family here in NY, and he married the first very , very Catholic Irish-American woman he seriously dated. For god's sake, his wife and his mother have the same exact name, and his wife's mother and father have the same name as his parents. He may as well have married himself. I , on the other hand, am the complete opposite of his wife in every way , shape and form-- looks, religion, personality, career ambitions, culture, everything. She and I are polar bloody opposites, and sometimes I felt like we were in one of those stories where the Prince falls in love with the exotic gypsy he finds in the woods one day, but to please his parents and sense of familiarity, he ends up marrying the blonde princess from the neighboring country as he is expected to do, even though he secretly desires the darkly sensual gyspy from the woods that his parents just don't approve of. But since he's comfortable going with what he knows, that's what he does. Except , unlike the movies, in real life people don't just drop everything to follow their desires.....they have mortgages, kids, family, and friends that they dont want to dissapoint. He said on more than one occasion how he would daydream about being able to have me without ruining the rest of his life. He'd make constant "jokes" about how he fantasized about winning the lottery so that he could afford to buy a condo in the city so that he'd have an excuse to spend half his time with me there and still have his family out in the suburbs. He was the classic "cake eater", if you will. And strangely I understood. His main complaint was that there was no spark between him and his wife, that there was no passion, no lust, no sex, that she had no desire to be a passionate person. I was someone he could freely talk to, someone he was intensely physically attracted to, someone that acted towards him like his very presence made my body quiver....which frankly, it did. I made him feel like a man again, like he was desirable and wanted, and he made me feel the same way. He'd stare at me laying next to him not saying a word, just stroking my hair and murmuring that I was beautiful and he didn't understand why I bothered to let him have his cake and eat it too (meaning, why I bothered with this affair when I knew he wasn't leaving his marriage). Oh, believe me, he never lied to me about his marital sex life. He didn't always offer information, but if I was stupid enough to ask questions I didnt really want to know the answers to, he would answer them. So I knew he was f**king his wife. I mean, she got pregnant twice in the time our affair was going on, so hey. In fact, I'm pretty certain their sex life at home improved in frequency because of me, because the ego boost he got by being with me encouraged him to try to get his wife to be more sexual at home, and you know how women can just "tell" when their spouse is possibly being unfaithful, and that makes them want to try harder to keep them? Im pretty sure thats what she did. The more he cheated on her, the more she agreed to do things he asked to keep him happy. And yet he kept coming back to me. Over and over. And only broke things off when he was faced with the fear of losing his family life when she'd find out obvious things of his infidelity. But you know what f**k him. He's ruined my perception of love, relationships, and made me totally cynical. I hope that changes one day but for now I feel emotionally incapable of feeling that way for anyone ever again. It's like something in my heart and mind just....died. Sounds sad, like Im some damaged pathetic person, but in reality Im just tired of the BS. Maybe I just don't care anymore. I'm too tired to care sometimes anymore. I trudge on, and I have visions of being this successful , charming doctor surrounded by my friends and family and eventually being the pathetically single person . Another one of my friends got engaged today, two more are getting married this year, one just had his first kid with his wife, and another girlfriend is due with her first baby in May. F**k it. Love sucks. That's all for today. I'm going to bed. KismetGirl It's ok to be cynical one day, down the next, up the next and who knows what the one after ... the main thing is you let yourself feel these emotions but don't make any large descision based on any one. One thing it's worth remembering through this up and down roller coaster of emotions though is who has put you on it. OK - you to some degree by getting involved in the first place (but I am sure you already kick yourself for that) but in the main Him .. this person who your brain keeps telling you that you miss is the one that is causing all this pain in you. And, as you rightly point out, he has spared himself any of it by his choice. You've been left to sink or swim by yourself, he's not planning to help you, and if you feel angry then that's probably one of the reasons why. When you say his marriage is not perfect be careful not to deceive yourself - his marriage IS perfect (as you allude to later in your comment) , he has three kids, a wife who lets or forgives him his strayings and all the material possessions and security that being a couple brings. Why isn't that perfect ???? What's not perfect is YOUR life. Your life has been trashed by your faith in him and now that it's time to focus on you, where is he??? that's right .. no where that you need him to be. Also, and this may be hard, but you seem strong enough to take it .. he WILL have been sleeping with her .. trust me ! How else have they survived birthdays, christmas, valentines and holidays ... if he wasn't sleeping with her for that long then SHE would have dragged him to counselling ... women have needs as well as men. In his mind, though, he won't have been sleeping with her because at that time he will have just been "doing it for the kids"/"doing it cause he had to" etc etc ... and when he then saw you he wouldn't mention it because he "loves you" and "doesn't want to hurt you" ... He probably believes this bull***t to quite a deep level in his mind as well, so much so that he can look you in the eye and swear it's the truth .. because in his own logic it will be. And if you're not quite sure he's capable of this, then imagine how he's looked his wife in the eye over the 4 years and said that he loves her and there's no-one else ... I bet he was just as believable (actually i know he was, otherwise she would have kicked up a fuss). So he may be the innocent victim in as much as (perhaps) he hasn't done this maliciously but on the other hand ignorance is not an excuse here - HE was the only one at any time who knew the truth and he chose to withold that (consciously or sub-consciouly) from you and his wife. I'm not sure how it is for you, but I found one of the main difficulties for me was accepting that they could have lied to me like this (and the sheer fact they remained where they were meant they did) and also that I could have believed it. My brain just could not seem to compute deceit on this level. The only good news is that (at last) he has revealed his priorities .. and sadly they are not you ... so from that point on what he does/does not do is no longer YOUR responsibility. What is your responsibility is to look after yourself, let yourself feel the pain, scream and shout as you need, do whatever you need to a) keep getting up every day and b) move on from this. I'm with you on the hating the hold that they seem to keep over you. I believe the reason to be a subtle change that happens to the OW or OM during an affair ... whilst you start of as an independant person pretty soon you can't make any descision without checking with the MM/MW first .. and then in general they have to check it with their partner (or at least check what their partners plans are and work out how if their is a chance to lie/manipulate the situation to get what they want) ... eg if you want see them one night then a) you have to ask them b) they have to check with their wife and work out what she's doing c) they can then get back to you with a yes (ie they can manipulate around their wife's plans to see you) or a no (their wifes plans mean they can't manipulate a situation to see you) ... So immediately you are not in control of your destiny any more ... you are disempowered. In a normal relationship you would ask them and they would answer ... immediate and no disempowerment. So you basically loose control over your time. Of course, because you are vested in seeming them you don't realise this until it's too late. And if you try and re-define your borders/independance then you face the constant unsaid threat that if you don't play ball then they might choose not to leave their partner. It's a NO-WIN situation for the OW/OM ... you are not only second to his needs, you are second to his wife's needs, the kids needs, the grandparent needs ... All you have is the crumbs .. and so trapped are you that you eventually start feeling grateful for every single one ... how many times have you been grateful to get a single rushed call over a weekend. Of course the reality is that maybe you get 5 mins of a rushed call but she gets every other minute of him for that weekend ... And he makes the choice to do that each and every day. He could choose otherwise but he doesn't ... he chooses her over you every single day and yet tells you otherwise. I now have one single rule which will protect me from all of these people ... no married women/women in relationships ... PERIOD. No If's, but's of anything. I respect and love myself too much to disempower myself like that again. You mention that whilst you can kind of see that you might meet someone again that you just can't get yourself to believing it. And i wanted to share with you that I've not met anyone else, so I'm not preaching from the luxury of a perfect ending. I now live in a foriegn country, away from my friends of 9 years, with my daughter and having to start everything again ... alone. But would I swap that to go back into that hell of living of crumbs and promises .. heck no. I may not be sorted yet but I am sorted enough to see that I am getting better every week and month and that, once I stopped waiting for their approval on everything I did then I started achieving things .. small at first but slowly bigger. I have not rushed myself, not denied myself my emotions, I have just loved myself for having the guts to commit from my side and also love myself for having the courage to keep getting up every day during the really hard parts. I still think about them far too often but I am at the stage now where if I was offered a magic pill that would remove them from my mind then I would take it. Not out of anger, or loss, or self pity .. but because I recognise that thinking of them is a waste of my time and don't want to do it. of course there is no magic pill - I just need to focus on managing my mind to a new way of behaviour .. it's just a habit and whilst i wasn't strong enough to tackle it earlier in the process I am now .. it's one of the last left-overs of this waste of time left and I want to close it down. So how do i know I will meet someone? Simple .. I know I am capable of immense love and that I am a wonderful person ... being mucked about by an emotionally insecure and immature child in an adult's body does not change who I am ... it's just a pointer that I need a few more boundries around me to flilter our the dross. You've wasted 4 years on this chump - imagine the number of decent guys you've never met during this time because you were keeping yourself for chumpo. Now i've stopped feeling sorry for myself I notice signals and glances all over the place ... I flirt occasionally but am not ready for anything more yet ... but when I am I am confident that there will be lots of people to meet and that, provided I filter out the unsuitable, there will be one there who will "do it for me" AND be able to commit to a relationship. Keep going for yourself ... you're worth it (and he never was !) Edited January 8, 2010 by KismetGirl
OldEurope Posted January 8, 2010 Posted January 8, 2010 (edited) Or maybe he does, after all, love his fair queen and wants to be with her... And the "dark gypsy" was someone he took advantage of, and that was that... I don't wish to be unkind, but this has been several years now, and your self confidence is at an all time low. Your ego might be high and mighty, but it must be backed up with genuine self esteem to mean something. Without that, there is a tendency to refuse to face facts. You've seen the writing on the wall here since day one. He has continued to have children with her, and not hold to his word. While I grant that his behavior towards his wife, is not demonstrative of "love", a bond keeps him there, and if it is children, so it is. Furthermore, as you might be the more "exotic" one, or the more intelligent or the more this or more that, his wife might have characteristics that he does not see you. Perhaps she is more emotionally mature. Perhaps he sees her as more responsible. Perhaps he sees qualities in her that he does not find in you. Take a look at your personality and actions, and be very sure you are someone, someone else would want to marry. Now, you are back here cursing "love" and life--and only in your twenties (I beileve) you are cynical. This is your own doing, largely, and it is for your to adjust your mentality and perspective--fast--before you are no longer in control of yourself. Unless he made detailed plans to divorce and marry; set dates, times, places to do both; called your parents and announced intentions, was on bended knee, returning and returning when you yourself would go away and stay away from him, with his declarations of love, and then ultimately disappointing you...unless you were that led "astray" you have no one to blame, at this point, but yourself for where you find yourself. It is not the fault of "Love" or "life", but the individual Kismet. OE Edited January 8, 2010 by OldEurope
silverplanets Posted January 8, 2010 Posted January 8, 2010 Silverplanets, At the end of the day, my pain is largely my own fault. Granted, he was the married one, and had the responsibility to be faithful, so in that respect the pain caused to his wife is mostly on his head. But my own pain? Well, even if he knew what he was doing to me, which he did to an extent, he was normally very honest with me. He never told me he was going to leave her, he never implied he wanted a future with me. In fact, he stated quite clearly that he loved his family and had no intention of leaving his kids, and that he felt his marriage was great, given the idea that marriage is a friendship. His view of "marriage" was that a man and woman got along well, didn't argue excessively, and were essentially good friends, and convinced himself that the lack of desire/passion/sex was just something to be put up with and a normal thing. Granted, relationships can lose their spark over years, but he and his wife never had it by his own admission....he married her because she was "comfortable and felt like home." I always found it to be pretty cliche that here he was, an Irish-Englishman, fresh from the UK, no family here in NY, and he married the first very , very Catholic Irish-American woman he seriously dated. For god's sake, his wife and his mother have the same exact name, and his wife's mother and father have the same name as his parents. He may as well have married himself. I , on the other hand, am the complete opposite of his wife in every way , shape and form-- looks, religion, personality, career ambitions, culture, everything. She and I are polar bloody opposites, and sometimes I felt like we were in one of those stories where the Prince falls in love with the exotic gypsy he finds in the woods one day, but to please his parents and sense of familiarity, he ends up marrying the blonde princess from the neighboring country as he is expected to do, even though he secretly desires the darkly sensual gyspy from the woods that his parents just don't approve of. But since he's comfortable going with what he knows, that's what he does. Except , unlike the movies, in real life people don't just drop everything to follow their desires.....they have mortgages, kids, family, and friends that they dont want to dissapoint. He said on more than one occasion how he would daydream about being able to have me without ruining the rest of his life. He'd make constant "jokes" about how he fantasized about winning the lottery so that he could afford to buy a condo in the city so that he'd have an excuse to spend half his time with me there and still have his family out in the suburbs. He was the classic "cake eater", if you will. And strangely I understood. His main complaint was that there was no spark between him and his wife, that there was no passion, no lust, no sex, that she had no desire to be a passionate person. I was someone he could freely talk to, someone he was intensely physically attracted to, someone that acted towards him like his very presence made my body quiver....which frankly, it did. I made him feel like a man again, like he was desirable and wanted, and he made me feel the same way. He'd stare at me laying next to him not saying a word, just stroking my hair and murmuring that I was beautiful and he didn't understand why I bothered to let him have his cake and eat it too (meaning, why I bothered with this affair when I knew he wasn't leaving his marriage). Oh, believe me, he never lied to me about his marital sex life. He didn't always offer information, but if I was stupid enough to ask questions I didnt really want to know the answers to, he would answer them. So I knew he was f**king his wife. I mean, she got pregnant twice in the time our affair was going on, so hey. In fact, I'm pretty certain their sex life at home improved in frequency because of me, because the ego boost he got by being with me encouraged him to try to get his wife to be more sexual at home, and you know how women can just "tell" when their spouse is possibly being unfaithful, and that makes them want to try harder to keep them? Im pretty sure thats what she did. The more he cheated on her, the more she agreed to do things he asked to keep him happy. And yet he kept coming back to me. Over and over. And only broke things off when he was faced with the fear of losing his family life when she'd find out obvious things of his infidelity. But you know what f**k him. He's ruined my perception of love, relationships, and made me totally cynical. I hope that changes one day but for now I feel emotionally incapable of feeling that way for anyone ever again. It's like something in my heart and mind just....died. Sounds sad, like Im some damaged pathetic person, but in reality Im just tired of the BS. Maybe I just don't care anymore. I'm too tired to care sometimes anymore. I trudge on, and I have visions of being this successful , charming doctor surrounded by my friends and family and eventually being the pathetically single person . Another one of my friends got engaged today, two more are getting married this year, one just had his first kid with his wife, and another girlfriend is due with her first baby in May. F**k it. Love sucks. That's all for today. I'm going to bed. I hear you ... at some points I'd find myself feeling in some bizarre way like a "marriage improver" ... whenever I was in her life her job improved (because she was more focused), HER needs from her marriage were better served (because he would agree to do more to keep her happy) and she performed better as a mother (because I'm a great dad and that used to rub off on her). Even whilst in the middle of it I was aware that the opposite happened for me during these times, I because a worse person, more inward focused, less outgoing, my career worsened and (probably THE key thing for me) my performance as a father suffered. Whenever I enforced NC (and there have been a fair few times) the opposite was true .. her life would crash and mine would fly (which presumably is what is happening now ... well I can only speak for mine and that's improving day by day) In the end I think I just got drained by the endless drama of it all as much as anything else and just got to the point of "just do what the hell you want will you but for christ's sake stop mucking us both around" Having been married and had an A I can understand how you can get caught into a no-win "I don't want to lose either of them " argument, but in reality from my point of view if she didn't want to lose him then that was enough to make me not want her (if you see what I mean). If yours was so clear on his eventual choices then it seems a bit cavalier of him to discuss any kind of future with you .... "if i win the lottery etc" .. it leaves a little door open and once you become invested in the R then that's often enough. Personally, and other people may disagree with me, I'm just sorry for you ... I don't care how much you were aware of the situation I bet you weren't aware that it was going to not only hurt you eventually but also leave you with such feelings of insecurity, doubt and lack of faith in people. I don't believe from your comments that you're adopting a victim mentallity .. I think you're just a little stunned, winded and totally confused about the whole thing. It sounds naff I know, but the bad things you are feeling right now are actually where the good will come to you out of this (provided it doesn't over power you) ... you;'re hurt, confused, insecure etc and (once the anger goes) if you can look inwards (in a non judgemental fashion) on these feelings then you will discover a whole new you (that was always there) who is strong, independant, happy and a good person. I can almost feel that person in me now and get glimpses of him occasionally and to be honest my main purpose in life right now (apart from being there for my daughter) is to let that happy, strong, fun person out so that I can spend the rest of my life true to me and not as some one else's marriage support system. (... it still hurts like hell at times though ) ... When I went into the A I was 28, successful, own properties, highest/quickest promoted invididual in my company,single, good looking (apparently!) and a real decent guy as well (my success was due to being a nice guy and helping others be succesful) After 1 year of the A.... i was without job, house, had no income and had moved area and lost all my friends ... she (on the other hand) had brought her errant H under control (he used to travel everywhere on his job and had to give that up to be at home), had moved to a great new job (on the confidence I gave her) and (which I didn;t know at the time) had her first child on its way by him ... and had moved house to her new dream house ... mmmm .. writing that makes me feel like a bit of a mug ... luckily this was a LONG time ago so I can just a laugh at this part. I saved myself at this time by going back to uni for a year and then moving abroad to leave it all behind and start again (which I did). Unfortunately 5 years I gave in and let her talk to me again ... but that's another story (and why I'm where I am now!) ... Sorry for the long post .. just sharing and commiserating ... I don't see myself as a victim mentality and neither do I see it in you ... recognising that life has broadsided you and stopping to take stock of it and re-orientate is not being a victim I'm with you on the "so tired of all this BS" though ... I'm tired of being some else's prop ... and, ps, I know it won't help but I would always choose the exotic gypsy over the blonde princess every time ... and you can be sure there are other good men out there who would do the same
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