I love her. She loves me. But, she wants to play around.

[Scrivdog]

I'll weigh in. I didn't before because it's so painfully damn obvious that:

 

1) The other guy has already been porking her for some time now

2) She is trying to get hubby to agree to new lover so she's not cheating anymore - it' now an "arrangement"

3) Women won't leave their guy until they've sunk their hooks in another. It's only a matter of time before she leaves.

4) The Sunday "pity f*ck" will also start falling off the wayside as she begins to much prefer to be banging the danceman on Sundays also. Pretty soon she'll be spending the entire weekend with him

5) She's not going to give this guy up

 

I say get her to move out. Nothing good will come from agreeing to any of her nifty suggestions.

 

Or maybe if you want to really scare away the danceman, offer to split the wife with him - on the condition that he pays half the bills, including insurance, housing, food, clothes, jewelry, cable tv, etc.

[jmargel]

Scriv is right. Your wife is gone emotionally. When most women physically leave the relationship they left it months ago emotionally. She is just trying to get you to agree to this arrangement because she needs a safety net.

 

Continue to be a safety net and expect for continued disrespect. Good chance she has already been having sex with this guy, you will have to do detective work in order to satisfy your own questions and doubts on what she is doing.

 

When a woman does this, the best thing you can do is open the cage door, push her to leave with the condition that she is to not look back. Make her start to think about what she is doing.

 

She is not treating you like a wife should be treating a husband. You need to understand this and to make her face the consequences. Right now she is putting this guy well above you in priority.

[tnhusband]

Phil - I've read through all your posts and I'm not sure I'm clear on what it is you really want. How do you want this to turn out?

 

It sounds to me no matter what you have said that your wife is not satisfied with the relationship she has with you and a big part of that is sex.

 

She appears to be looking for at least the mental high you get from a new relationship and possibly the physical pleasure from having sex with someone new.

 

My wife and I have swung on occasion and know that the dynamics of swinging are very complicated.

 

Is swinging something you would consider? The key to great swinging is that it is all out in the open and all parties have to agree and be happy with whatever takes place.

 

This may be too far out there for you but what would your wife say if you agreed to have a threesome with the other guy?

 

Failing that what about going to a swingers club just to educate yourselves? talk to some swingers and you'll find out most are normal people. Not all of course - just like in the non-swinging world there are all sorts.

 

In my experience a lot of people get into swinging in their 30's and 40's - when the marriage has developed and evolved and usually solidified. But the couple is looking for something more sexually - some adult fun. It's just sex!

 

If your wife wants more of an emotional connection with another man then I would say that swinging is a bad idea for you guys.

 

In saying that it's usually a bad idea to try swinging to fix a troubled marriage but I just wanted to throw it out there for you to think about and maybe talk to your wife. Do some reaearch etc.

 

There are a lot of "rules" in the swinging lifestyle but the best part is as a couple you only do what you want to do and with who you want to.

 

Best of Luck

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Phil - I've read through all your posts and I'm not sure I'm clear on what it is you really want. How do you want this to turn out?

 

It sounds to me no matter what you have said that your wife is not satisfied with the relationship she has with you and a big part of that is sex.

 

She appears to be looking for at least the mental high you get from a new relationship and possibly the physical pleasure from having sex with someone new.

 

My wife and I have swung on occasion and know that the dynamics of swinging are very complicated.

 

Is swinging something you would consider? The key to great swinging is that it is all out in the open and all parties have to agree and be happy with whatever takes place.

 

This may be too far out there for you but what would your wife say if you agreed to have a threesome with the other guy?

 

Failing that what about going to a swingers club just to educate yourselves? talk to some swingers and you'll find out most are normal people. Not all of course - just like in the non-swinging world there are all sorts.

 

In my experience a lot of people get into swinging in their 30's and 40's - when the marriage has developed and evolved and usually solidified. But the couple is looking for something more sexually - some adult fun. It's just sex!

 

If your wife wants more of an emotional connection with another man then I would say that swinging is a bad idea for you guys.

 

In saying that it's usually a bad idea to try swinging to fix a troubled marriage but I just wanted to throw it out there for you to think about and maybe talk to your wife. Do some reaearch etc.

 

There are a lot of "rules" in the swinging lifestyle but the best part is as a couple you only do what you want to do and with who you want to.

 

Best of Luck

 

But at least that is an honest response. As said i have a friend into it and we get stories and laugh about it..... Not remotely interested. However that is what I think Philetus' wife is aiming for under the guise that the marriage is failing.

[HeyThere]

I have seen this over and over...literally hundreds of times in the past 2 years since my WW's affair.

 

She is WAY too confused and mentally anguished Pre-affair.

 

 

I strongly suspect, as I posted earlier that she is already in an affair.

 

How did the visit w/ the MC go?

 

You’ve talked repeatedly about you W physical condition and stress; sounds like guilt related to affair or pre-affair. You’ve also talked repeatedly about missing cues – keep your antennae up.

[Untouchable_Fire]

I thought you were asking if there were issues with sex in our relationship. There wasn't.

Do I think things will be magically fixed? No, not by magic but by hard work and a dedication, that is life long, to address the underlying issues.

I"m not trying to take ownership of her medical issues. I'm saying that it's HER indecision and conflicts that are leading to that. I take little responsibility for that.

I take ownership for not giving my marriage the attention it deserves and not picking up on her, not so subtle, hints.

However, that does not mean I will accept her having an affair. It does not mean I will accept polyamory.

There are remedies going forward that I will accept. That is, working with a therapist over a fixed period of time (to be determined by the therapist and us) to resolve our issues.

If she is unwilling to do that, I've already told her what will happen - antagonistic divorce!

Again, I think it's hard for you to completely analyze my situation because you're not getting all the information.

Have I accepted too much of the blame? Possibly. But, I told her point blank that had she been honest with me, I would have moved immediately to address these issues months ago.

 

You cut her off from this dance instructor right? That should be a condition of your not divorcing her.

 

She needs to not have contact with that guy or all the friggin work you put into the relationship will be worthless.

[sand26]

Polyamory: Works for me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

It can be a wonderful life.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Polyamory: Works for me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

It can be a wonderful life.

 

 

But if your screen name is 26 years old and single, you have a lot of growing up to do. Have kids and a "stable" relationship and let know how thrilled you are when your spouse is out boinking someone else...

[Heroic]

Had an interesting thought.....

 

The Ethical Slut.....

 

How exactly did she come across this book? It's a pretty specific message.

 

She is being coached by someone....

[Heroic]

jmargel

 

Dude you are dead on. That was wisdom!

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Had an interesting thought.....

 

The Ethical Slut.....

 

How exactly did she come across this book? It's a pretty specific message.

 

She is being coached by someone....

 

Someone else figures it out.... Or she just wants to justify cheating or entering a swinging lifestyle ALONE (women are always welcome alone, men must bring a female partner).....

[TinyLee222]

I'll weigh in. I didn't before because it's so painfully damn obvious that:

 

1) The other guy has already been porking her for some time now

2) She is trying to get hubby to agree to new lover so she's not cheating anymore - it' now an "arrangement"

3) Women won't leave their guy until they've sunk their hooks in another. It's only a matter of time before she leaves.

4) The Sunday "pity f*ck" will also start falling off the wayside as she begins to much prefer to be banging the danceman on Sundays also. Pretty soon she'll be spending the entire weekend with him

5) She's not going to give this guy up

 

I say get her to move out. Nothing good will come from agreeing to any of her nifty suggestions.

 

Or maybe if you want to really scare away the danceman, offer to split the wife with him - on the condition that he pays half the bills, including insurance, housing, food, clothes, jewelry, cable tv, etc.

 

 

Well this pretty much sums it up. Read this a few times and really think about it. It's spot on. Your wife doesn't want you anymore. She said she wasn't in love with you. It sucks and it's painful. I am sure she is already with this guy. Stop taking the blame for what went wrong. She wants your marriage to end but feels guilty about ending it. You sound like a nice guy. Get rid of the extra weight that is dragging you down.

Move on you deserve more..

 

 

Lee

[giotto]

You sound like a nice guy.

 

The curse!!!

[tnhusband]

Don't crucify me here but you guys sure make a lot assumptions and absolute statements. Shouldn't we be giving the OP helpful opinions. To say she's already porking the dance instructor is just a guess on anyone here's part and not exactly helping the OP figure this out.

 

No one really knows what is going on her mind, what she has or hasn't done or what she wants.

 

IMHO she's a married woman that is having a bit of a mid-life crisis - what the OP needs to figure out is this a purely sexual desire she has or is she looking for an emotional/romantic relationship with another man? If it's the former - would he like to swing or accept being a cuckold? Or can he just become more sexually adventurous to satisfy her desires? If it's the latter then its a much more serious problem that will require help/counseling that no one here can provide.

 

.... Or she just wants to justify cheating or entering a swinging lifestyle ALONE (women are always welcome alone, men must bring a female partner).....

 

To clarify - swinging without your partner is not swinging it's cheating - unless you have your partners approval.

 

There are plenty of single men in the swinging lifestyle - they are welcome at the clubs we attend - they do have to pay more to get in - but thats because there are so many and it helps keep the numbers down.

[Scrivdog]

To begin with, unlike the title - she doesn't love him. She told him so in so many words when she said she wasn't "in love" with him anymore.

 

The OP is already a cuckold. His wife is cheating on him. She went on a date with the other guy and came back with plans for a spending Friday nights and Saturday with him. That means she already tangoed with the danceman and probably a few others.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

To begin with, unlike the title - she doesn't love him. She told him so in so many words when she said she wasn't "in love" with him anymore.

 

The OP is already a cuckold. His wife is cheating on him. She went on a date with the other guy and came back with plans for a spending Friday nights and Saturday with him. That means she already tangoed with the danceman and probably a few others.

 

Are you right???? Can't be sure, but the OP needs posts like yours to bang it into his head that there is way more to it then she is currently telling him. Is it all in her head, her fantasies, her mid-life crisis..... Maybe.....

 

The issue really is that Philetus came on here and has been very honest, probably taken too much of the burden upon himself and has spent a good dea of time arguing that we are all wrong about his wife and this "proposal".....

 

I still look for the best in people and don't immediately say "cheating" when I read a post. However I do say be diligent and don't be made a fool of.

[tnhusband]

To begin with, unlike the title - she doesn't love him. She told him so in so many words when she said she wasn't "in love" with him anymore.

 

The OP is already a cuckold. His wife is cheating on him. She went on a date with the other guy and came back with plans for a spending Friday nights and Saturday with him. That means she already tangoed with the danceman and probably a few others.

 

Oh come on - she said that to get her point across that they were in crisis - she still loves him - this is not about love.

 

She is already cheating on him? Where's the proof? Your posts are not going to help the OP if you make up stuff.

 

Why don't we all stop being so negative and give the guy some helpful ideas.

[sxyNYCcpl]

This has been an interesting thread.

 

Phil, you've had a couple people mention the possibility of swinging or an open relationship. For the record, my wife and I are swingers and not only has it caused nothing negative to occur to our lives or relationship, in fact it's caused many positive things. Reading this thread, I really can't decide if I think your wife is looking for a sexual experience or an emotional one, but there's at least a part of me that thinks she wants to add some form of swinging into her life. You have stated that you're not open to a non-monogamous relationship, and it's an absolute certainty that it's not a lifestyle that is suited for everyone, but I have to ask, is that a fully informed decision or just a knee-jerk reaction?

 

I am not telling you that you should be open to such an idea, but I would recommend that you make a fully informed decision. Look into it. Study it. Understand what it is, and what it isn't. If after having done so you decide it's not your cup of tea, so be it, but if you're just reacting that way because since the day you were born that's how you've been taught to react it may or may not be the way to go.

 

There's no harm in reading the book, I myself have not read it but I've heard good things about it. There's no such thing as having too much information.

 

Just some food for thought.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

This has been an interesting thread.

 

Phil, you've had a couple people mention the possibility of swinging or an open relationship. For the record, my wife and I are swingers and not only has it caused nothing negative to occur to our lives or relationship, in fact it's caused many positive things. Reading this thread, I really can't decide if I think your wife is looking for a sexual experience or an emotional one, but there's at least a part of me that thinks she wants to add some form of swinging into her life. You have stated that you're not open to a non-monogamous relationship, and it's an absolute certainty that it's not a lifestyle that is suited for everyone, but I have to ask, is that a fully informed decision or just a knee-jerk reaction?

 

I am not telling you that you should be open to such an idea, but I would recommend that you make a fully informed decision. Look into it. Study it. Understand what it is, and what it isn't. If after having done so you decide it's not your cup of tea, so be it, but if you're just reacting that way because since the day you were born that's how you've been taught to react it may or may not be the way to go.

 

There's no harm in reading the book, I myself have not read it but I've heard good things about it. There's no such thing as having too much information.

 

Just some food for thought.

 

Don't agree or disagree..... Obviously however that is what the wife wants..... Or simply permission to cheat.... He doesn't....

 

What she has done though is been very funny in her actions and comments. That I think is the serious issue.

[sxyNYCcpl]

Don't agree or disagree..... Obviously however that is what the wife wants..... Or simply permission to cheat.... He doesn't....

 

Whenever a couple wants different things out of their sex life, that is a potential problem, whether it's to swing or not, or simply how often (if ever) to have oral sex. I would also say as a supplemental comment that even if you guys do some research on swinging and decide that it looks like the best thing ever and to jump in with both feet, I'd strongly recommend AGAINST the gentleman your wife currently has in mind. Not that I really expect you to take this path at all, but just in case.

 

I'm still on the fence if she's looking for swinging, or a boyfriend, and though both might involve sex, they're two very different animals.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Whenever a couple wants different things out of their sex life, that is a potential problem, whether it's to swing or not, or simply how often (if ever) to have oral sex. I would also say as a supplemental comment that even if you guys do some research on swinging and decide that it looks like the best thing ever and to jump in with both feet, I'd strongly recommend AGAINST the gentleman your wife currently has in mind. Not that I really expect you to take this path at all, but just in case.

 

I'm still on the fence if she's looking for swinging, or a boyfriend, and though both might involve sex, they're two very different animals.

 

She wants sex with someone who is not her husband. She claims all it is is sex and that to me is wanting to have affairs or an open relationship. Where you are right, is if it is just sex, it should not be with someone (i.e. dance instructor), with whom whether she knows it or not, she wants a relationship with.

[LucreziaBorgia]

I'm curious to see how this turns out. My stbxH dropped the 'open marriage' on me too. My only regret is that we didn't just immediately divorce. He didn't really want an open marriage. He wanted to cheat with my permission. As soon as I started dating and he was striking out, he decided that he wanted a divorce.

 

I suspect that the wife in this situation isn't interested in an open marriage. She just wants the security and stability of married life and be able to f*ck outside the marriage. That isn't an open marriage. That is just cheating with permission.

 

I wager that if the danceman dumps the wife, and the husband were to date and lavish attention on another woman the whole 'open marriage' thing would fly right out the door.

 

I find far too often that people only want 'open marriages' when it works in their favor.

[torranceshipman]

there are no grey areas when it comes to fidelity in a relationship: Either you are committed or you're not. If you plan to f**k around, it's "not."

 

it's as simple as that.

 

as for the "not in love" BS she's giving you? Uh ... relationships go through their peaks and valleys, and ideally you choose to weather them together because you BOTH have a vested interest in making that relationship succeed.

 

maybe it's time to tell her if she's not interested in committing herself to a monogamous relationship with you, she needs to get the hell out, because you're not going to be her back-up plan. Because what she's proposing is rude, inconsiderate and selfish.

 

there are no grey areas when it comes to fidelity, period.

 

I 100% agree with this - she does not respect you, she is being completely selfish about all of this, and she needs to be kicked swiftly into reality. Tell her it is over - based on even that suggestion I'd end it - the very fact that she thinks you will lie down and take s**t like that is reason enough to tell her she's messed up to the point of no return. Live in the same house but as separated single people if you can't afford to move. Let her see she has 100% lost you. Then sit back and wait for the very predictable fall out where, after a little while, she realizes exactly what she has done, falls apart, begs for your forgiveness, whatever...whilst you all the while maintain your dignity and maintain the higher ground AND have the opportunity to go out dating again.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

I 100% agree with this - she does not respect you, she is being completely selfish about all of this, and she needs to be kicked swiftly into reality. Tell her it is over - based on even that suggestion I'd end it - the very fact that she thinks you will lie down and take s**t like that is reason enough to tell her she's messed up to the point of no return. Live in the same house but as separated single people if you can't afford to move. Let her see she has 100% lost you. Then sit back and wait for the very predictable fall out where, after a little while, she realizes exactly what she has done, falls apart, begs for your forgiveness, whatever...whilst you all the while maintain your dignity and maintain the higher ground AND have the opportunity to go out dating again.

 

She has to be out of the house.... The idea of looking at someone walking in @ 3 am or the next morning after sleeping with another guy is a non-starter for me....... And a terrible role model for children.

[Holding-On]

She has to be out of the house.... The idea of looking at someone walking in @ 3 am or the next morning after sleeping with another guy is a non-starter for me....... And a terrible role model for children.

 

my children aren't awake at 3am....why are your kids?