USMCHokie Posted December 7, 2009 Posted December 7, 2009 ...the dumper just didn't think the dumpee was good enough... So today's thought comes from sunny Okinawa, Japan as I was doing some pull-ups... Can EVERY breakup be explained by this? If someone new entered the picture, obvious Dumpee isn't good enough for Dumper to stick around... If circumstances don't allow you to be together (e.g., distance, careers, whatever other practical sh*t gets in the way), yet you insist that the two of you are still in love...the bottom line is: Dumpee isn't good enough...he/she isn't worth the trouble or the risk... [a quick aside: oftentimes a significant other shouldn't be worth the trouble if it means that you can't move ahead in life] If Dumper still wants to play the field or seek greener pastures or live the single life again, it's still the same...Dumpee wasn't good enough for Dumper to give up the single life and settle down with one person... Another way to think about it...imagine if you were the dating someone that you just weren't that crazy about...of course it'd be easy for you to be honest with yourself...he/she just wasn't good enough for you...but only a select few of us are capable of being just as honest to that other person...and telling them that they just aren't good enough for us...but the vast majority will make up bullsh*t excuses because we're too sensitive or cowardly to just tell it as it is..."oh, i'm not ready for a relationship", or "I need space", etc... When Dumper initiates the breakup, he/she is under the impression that Dumpee is not good enough...so it's relatively painless for Dumper...and Dumper is ready to move on to the next contestant on the price is right...sometimes, Dumper realizes that the he/she can't find better...as a result, Dumpee instantly becomes good enough again...and Dumper comes crawling back... Meanwhile, after the breakup, Dumpee doesn't understand the bottom line...that Dumper doesn't think he/she is good enough...it's as simple as that...regardless of what excuse or line Dumper feeds Dumpee...it all boils down to the same thing...and yet, Dumpee will concoct reasons and "logic" to explain the breakup...just to avoid the truth... If only Dumpers and Dumpees realized that every breakup was this simple...then Dumpers could just be honest with themselves and their exes...and Dumpees would surely understand what had happened and not remain so attached to the Dumper who thought they weren't good enough for them... Any thoughts...?
DenverBachelor Posted December 7, 2009 Posted December 7, 2009 You're forgetting the fact that some Dumper's are completely bat-**** insane. And the term "good enough" isn't the best in my opinion. Some people thrive on the taste of love chemicals and constantly need new experiences. It doesn't mean the dumpee wasn't good enough, it just means they want to screw the entire planet before settling down in some ditch somewhere.
Author USMCHokie Posted December 7, 2009 Author Posted December 7, 2009 You're forgetting the fact that some Dumper's are completely bat-**** insane. And the term "good enough" isn't the best in my opinion. Some people thrive on the taste of love chemicals and constantly need new experiences. It doesn't mean the dumpee wasn't good enough, it just means they want to screw the entire planet before settling down in some ditch somewhere. That's why I worded the statement in bold the way I did... ...that Dumper didn't think that Dumpee was good enough...whether that's actually true would be irrelevant to Dumper... If Dumpee wasn't actually good enough, then Dumpee must realize this and make improvements to themselves to be better for the next person in their life... If Dumpee actually was good enough or better than Dumper, then Dumpee can take the breakup as Dumper's loss...and move on with head held high...
DenverBachelor Posted December 7, 2009 Posted December 7, 2009 That's why I worded the statement in bold the way I did... ...that Dumper didn't think that Dumpee was good enough...whether that's actually true would be irrelevant to Dumper... If Dumpee wasn't actually good enough, then Dumpee must realize this and make improvements to themselves to be better for the next person in their life... If Dumpee actually was good enough or better than Dumper, then Dumpee can take the breakup as Dumper's loss...and move on with head held high... I don't think it is as clear cut as that, though. One day I eat chocolate cake. "Mmm ... this is some good ****!" So I continue to eat chocolate cake every day for a year (while working out more). Do you think that chocolate cake is going to taste the same as it did the first day? Well, it will taste good, but we know what we're going to get even before we take our first bite. Then one day someone comes over and shows you a blueberry muffin. "Hmm, I'm never tried a blueberry muffin before, but it sure smells good." So right before you're about to take a bite out of the chocolate cake, you pick up the muffin and taste it. "MMMM, this is different! It takes unique!! I love this and I'm tired of eating chocolate cake." So you kick the cake's ass to the curb and you start chowing down on the blueberry muffin. That muffin is magical -- it gives you butterflies. You feel so good and happy that you've finally gotten a chance to taste something else. Was the chocolate cake not "good enough?" How do we compare it?
J dub Posted December 7, 2009 Posted December 7, 2009 lol - denver bachelor - that was cute AND very eloquently put. I love it!
j_cali_man Posted December 7, 2009 Posted December 7, 2009 I agree...the dumper felt the dumpee wasn't good enough. Hence sl*ttin it up with a new man 3 weeks after a 3 year DEEP relationship. Damn that stung like a firepoker to the heart. J
HeavenOrHell Posted December 7, 2009 Posted December 7, 2009 I don't feel good enough anymore. The fact is he didn't think I was worth staying with, that's how I've felt since he left.
Author USMCHokie Posted December 7, 2009 Author Posted December 7, 2009 I don't think it is as clear cut as that, though. Was the chocolate cake not "good enough?" How do we compare it? Your analogy was simply delightful. But I do think it's as clear cut as that. And no, the chocolate cake was not "good enough" at that time. At least not good enough for Eater to commit to eating no other tasty confections other than chocolate cake. It has nothing to do with comparing various tasty confections. It's about being happy with "good enough." Some people never find "good enough," and they live their life jumping from one relationship to another, or one marriage to another. On the other hand, some people have the personality where nothing is ever "good enough" for them. They just leave a bunch of broken hearts in their wake, and they couldn't care less... The point is, Dumper doesn't think that Dumpee is good enough at that moment when he decides to leave Dumpee. Whether Dumper eventually regrets that decision is irrelevant.
Author USMCHokie Posted December 7, 2009 Author Posted December 7, 2009 I agree...the dumper felt the dumpee wasn't good enough. Hence sl*ttin it up with a new man 3 weeks after a 3 year DEEP relationship. Damn that stung like a firepoker to the heart. J It's how I explained how my ex decided she wanted to date a month after the breakup...even after she told me that she was done with dating for a while...it was just another line to hide the fact that she didn't think I was good enough for her... In a way, it makes it easier to move on...because in my eyes, she isn't that sincere and genuine person that I thought I knew...she's just like all the others who can't be trusted...it sort of fuels an anger...anger sometimes helps to sever that emotional bond that we have with our ex...
bayouboi Posted December 7, 2009 Posted December 7, 2009 I would generally agree with you, but in my case I was the dumper but it wasn't because I didn't think she was good enough. I would have married & had children with her. I realized she didn't love me as much as she said she did by her actions. I haven't moved on and I'm not looking for her replacement, I broke up with her because it was no longer a healthy relationship for me because the love didn't feel reciprocated.
Author USMCHokie Posted December 7, 2009 Author Posted December 7, 2009 I would generally agree with you, but in my case I was the dumper but it wasn't because I didn't think she was good enough. I would have married & had children with her. I realized she didn't love me as much as she said she did by her actions. I haven't moved on and I'm not looking for her replacement, I broke up with her because it was no longer a healthy relationship for me because the love didn't feel reciprocated. Alas, if you peel off all the layers and all the words, you still get to the same conclusion...she wasn't good enough...not necessarily as a person, but as a partner...no one wants to spend their life with someone who doesn't love them the same way...so in your mind, she wasn't "good enough" for you to want to marry and have kids with...you wanted someone "better"...someone that loved you as much as you loved them... There's no shame in deciding that someone isn't good enough for you...it's just that both Dumpers and Dumpees need to stop deceiving themselves...
HeavenOrHell Posted December 7, 2009 Posted December 7, 2009 My ex left me for that reason, and the reason it feels like I'm not good enough is because even though I tried to make it up to him and show him what he meant to me, he still left, it feels like I wasn't worth fighting for, not loveable to him anymore. Can I ask, could you ever love her again if you truly felt she loved you? I would generally agree with you, but in my case I was the dumper but it wasn't because I didn't think she was good enough. I would have married & had children with her. I realized she didn't love me as much as she said she did by her actions. I haven't moved on and I'm not looking for her replacement, I broke up with her because it was no longer a healthy relationship for me because the love didn't feel reciprocated.
Template Posted December 7, 2009 Posted December 7, 2009 This is a slippery slope in which feeds off our own low self esteem. Who determines we aren't good enough? Our Ex? Or ourselves? As soon as my ex dumped me, SHE isn't good enough for ME, her opinions don't matter anymore. That's why we all feel bad when we are dumped, because we value the opinion of the other, before we value our own. And when start valuing our own, that's when we go through the angry phase. This whole "good enough/not good enough" argument serves no purpose. It's saying life is just a series of bit 0,1. Yes or no. Why did you do a pull-up, instead of a crunch? Because the crunch wasn't good enough? Why did you join the Marine instead of Air Force? Because the Air Force wasn't good enough? Maybe the Air Force was good enough, but the Marines had a base that you wanted to go that the Air Force didn't. Yes, on it's simplistic level, the idea of value is what ultimately makes our decisions, but the idea of value a lot of times could be irrationally based, and you cannot make a rational conclusion to and irrational act (and most of the time love is irrational as you can get). Hey, if it helps you cope, then go for it. I choose to live my life knowing that I am good enough, and the only thing not good enough was my ex's own willingness to find out how good enough I was.
Ilovecake Posted December 7, 2009 Posted December 7, 2009 ...the dumper just didn't think the dumpee was good enough... So today's thought comes from sunny Okinawa, Japan as I was doing some pull-ups... Can EVERY breakup be explained by this? If someone new entered the picture, obvious Dumpee isn't good enough for Dumper to stick around... If circumstances don't allow you to be together (e.g., distance, careers, whatever other practical sh*t gets in the way), yet you insist that the two of you are still in love...the bottom line is: Dumpee isn't good enough...he/she isn't worth the trouble or the risk... [a quick aside: oftentimes a significant other shouldn't be worth the trouble if it means that you can't move ahead in life] If Dumper still wants to play the field or seek greener pastures or live the single life again, it's still the same...Dumpee wasn't good enough for Dumper to give up the single life and settle down with one person... Another way to think about it...imagine if you were the dating someone that you just weren't that crazy about...of course it'd be easy for you to be honest with yourself...he/she just wasn't good enough for you...but only a select few of us are capable of being just as honest to that other person...and telling them that they just aren't good enough for us...but the vast majority will make up bullsh*t excuses because we're too sensitive or cowardly to just tell it as it is..."oh, i'm not ready for a relationship", or "I need space", etc... When Dumper initiates the breakup, he/she is under the impression that Dumpee is not good enough...so it's relatively painless for Dumper...and Dumper is ready to move on to the next contestant on the price is right...sometimes, Dumper realizes that the he/she can't find better...as a result, Dumpee instantly becomes good enough again...and Dumper comes crawling back... Meanwhile, after the breakup, Dumpee doesn't understand the bottom line...that Dumper doesn't think he/she is good enough...it's as simple as that...regardless of what excuse or line Dumper feeds Dumpee...it all boils down to the same thing...and yet, Dumpee will concoct reasons and "logic" to explain the breakup...just to avoid the truth... If only Dumpers and Dumpees realized that every breakup was this simple...then Dumpers could just be honest with themselves and their exes...and Dumpees would surely understand what had happened and not remain so attached to the Dumper who thought they weren't good enough for them... Any thoughts...? I couldn't agree with you more. I absolutely love these simple ideas that cut right through all the bull and get straight to the point.
DustySaltus Posted December 7, 2009 Posted December 7, 2009 The blueberry muffin gets old after a while too....and sooner or later you're looking for that chocolate cake again, but more than likely it's gone.
GrayClouds Posted December 7, 2009 Posted December 7, 2009 I don't think it is as clear cut as that, though. One day I eat chocolate cake. "Mmm ... this is some good ****!" So I continue to eat chocolate cake every day for a year (while working out more). Do you think that chocolate cake is going to taste the same as it did the first day? Well, it will taste good, but we know what we're going to get even before we take our first bite. Then one day someone comes over and shows you a blueberry muffin. "Hmm, I'm never tried a blueberry muffin before, but it sure smells good." So right before you're about to take a bite out of the chocolate cake, you pick up the muffin and taste it. "MMMM, this is different! It takes unique!! I love this and I'm tired of eating chocolate cake." So you kick the cake's ass to the curb and you start chowing down on the blueberry muffin. That muffin is magical -- it gives you butterflies. You feel so good and happy that you've finally gotten a chance to taste something else. Was the chocolate cake not "good enough?" How do we compare it? Yes because the chocolate cake is less exciting then the muffin, hence the cake is no longer good enough. The muffins gives butterflies.... and with any luck, crabs too. (DenverB is am going to go out on a limb here and suggest in your current break-up your playing the role of chocolate cake )
Ilovecake Posted December 7, 2009 Posted December 7, 2009 (edited) I don't think it is as clear cut as that, though. One day I eat chocolate cake. "Mmm ... this is some good ****!" So I continue to eat chocolate cake every day for a year (while working out more). Do you think that chocolate cake is going to taste the same as it did the first day? Well, it will taste good, but we know what we're going to get even before we take our first bite. Then one day someone comes over and shows you a blueberry muffin. "Hmm, I'm never tried a blueberry muffin before, but it sure smells good." So right before you're about to take a bite out of the chocolate cake, you pick up the muffin and taste it. "MMMM, this is different! It takes unique!! I love this and I'm tired of eating chocolate cake." So you kick the cake's ass to the curb and you start chowing down on the blueberry muffin. That muffin is magical -- it gives you butterflies. You feel so good and happy that you've finally gotten a chance to taste something else. Was the chocolate cake not "good enough?" How do we compare it? But that's exactly it. How much do you love chocolate cake? Do you love it enough to forgo the muffin, especially if you know that chances are if you try muffin you will never see another piece of chocolate cake again? Is chocolate cake good enough to just say “that muffin sure looks good but I'll stick with my lovely cake”? Secondly people aren't pastries, we have feelings. Take my word for it, after all Ilovecake. Edited December 7, 2009 by Ilovecake
bayouboi Posted December 7, 2009 Posted December 7, 2009 Can I ask, could you ever love her again if you truly felt she loved you? Absolutely without a doubt. She's an amazing woman in my opinion and I highly respected her. The OP has it backwards in my case, it's not that she wasn't good enough for me, it was that I realized that I didn't feel like she thought that I was good enough for her.
DenverBachelor Posted December 7, 2009 Posted December 7, 2009 But that's exactly it. How much do you love chocolate cake? Do you love it enough to forgo the muffin, especially if you know that chances are if you try muffin you will never see another piece of chocolate cake again? Is chocolate cake good enough to just say “that muffin sure looks good but I'll stick with my lovely cake”? Secondly people aren't pastries, we have feelings. Take my word for it, after all Ilovecake. My point is the utility theory from economics. If you go out and buy one baseball ticket for yourself, that first ticket holds a certain number of "utils." If you purchase a second ticket, it will be much less valuable to you from a utils standpoint. Intrinsicly, Chocolate cake by itself may hold far more utils to you than a blueberry muffin, but eating that cake every day reduces it's threshold below that of the maximum utils of a new blueberry muffin. However, what people don't realize is that the blueberry muffin will go down the same slippery slope and after eating THAT for a year, you'll realize you would have rather just eaten chocolate cake for a year -- because they both ramp down, but the chocolate cake has a higher baseline util over time.
XKatieX Posted December 7, 2009 Posted December 7, 2009 (edited) I don't completely agree. I think some things just aren't meant to be on both sides of the relationship. Sometimes BOTH partners know that deep down it should be over. In the end it comes down to someone putting their foot down and that person usually is the stronger one in the relationship. But the dumpee (me) doesn't question it, I know why its over..and it is strictly because things just weren't working between us. So all in all I think it depends on the situation. DenverBachelor: Can I just say I love your sense of humor? I enjoy reading your posts Edited December 7, 2009 by XKatieX
Author USMCHokie Posted December 7, 2009 Author Posted December 7, 2009 This is a slippery slope in which feeds off our own low self esteem. Who determines we aren't good enough? Our Ex? Or ourselves? As soon as my ex dumped me, SHE isn't good enough for ME, her opinions don't matter anymore. That's why we all feel bad when we are dumped, because we value the opinion of the other, before we value our own. And when start valuing our own, that's when we go through the angry phase. This whole "good enough/not good enough" argument serves no purpose. It's saying life is just a series of bit 0,1. Yes or no. Why did you do a pull-up, instead of a crunch? Because the crunch wasn't good enough? Why did you join the Marine instead of Air Force? Because the Air Force wasn't good enough? Maybe the Air Force was good enough, but the Marines had a base that you wanted to go that the Air Force didn't. Yes, on it's simplistic level, the idea of value is what ultimately makes our decisions, but the idea of value a lot of times could be irrationally based, and you cannot make a rational conclusion to and irrational act (and most of the time love is irrational as you can get). Hey, if it helps you cope, then go for it. I choose to live my life knowing that I am good enough, and the only thing not good enough was my ex's own willingness to find out how good enough I was. Well, the beauty and simplicity of my point is that it's what Dumper thinks at the moment of the breakup that matters. Dumpee's value of anything, whether it be Dumper, the relationship itself, or themselves is completely irrelevant...and that's the point that so many people in the coping phase fail to realize...no matter how much Dumpee values the relationship or loves Dumper, it won't affect Dumper's choice...and oftentimes it drives Dumper further away... It becomes a matter of Dumpee's maturity, experience in breakups, and personality that determines how Dumpee will react...if Dumpee is strong, then he/she will react as you do...realizing that you are worth more than Dumper values you, and you turn it against Dumper...that Dumper is no longer good enough for Dumpee...on the other hand, if Dumpee has self-esteem issues, then he/she will wallow in self-pity and value themselves exactly as Dumper valued them...not "good enough"... Although decisions in breakups can be quite complex and involve a number of factors, in the end, it's simply a choice made by Dumper...yes or no, 0 or 1...there is no half a relationship...and that's the point I'm stressing...the breakup really is just a choice that Dumper makes based on his belief at that moment...that Dumpee just wasn't "good enough" in Dumper's mind... And yes, the Air Force wasn't good enough. But I kid. It was simply a choice that I made, a yes or a no, at that moment. And from that moment forward, that choice was "good enough" for me. It works the same way with relationships...as each day passes, the other person is "good enough" for you...and once the day comes that Dumpee is not "good enough", for whatever reason, then Dumper takes off...
Author USMCHokie Posted December 7, 2009 Author Posted December 7, 2009 I don't completely agree. I think some things just aren't meant to be on both sides of the relationship. Sometimes BOTH partners know that deep down it should be over. In the end it comes down to someone putting their foot down and that person usually is the stronger one in the relationship. But the dumpee (me) doesn't question it, I know why its over..and it is strictly because things just weren't working between us. So all in all I think it depends on the situation. DenverBachelor: Can I just say I love your sense of humor? I enjoy reading your posts The whole "not meant to be" stuff is just fluffy wording to hide what I've been trying to say...Dumpee is just not good enough...human choice allows us to pretty much do what we please, to a certain extent...aside from death, nothing can really stop us from being with someone...it's a matter of what a person is willing to put up with to keep a relationship alive... If the two of you have completely conflicting personalities, that doesn't absolutely stop you from being with each other...are you willing to be miserable for the rest of your life to be with them? It can still happen...If there's distance, is one person willing to leave behind their life and move for the other? Career conflicts...is one willing to give up theirs for the other? Nearly every practical issue can be overcome, depending on how much the two value the relationship. Whether they each feel the other is "good enough." In the case you bring up, where both feel that the relationship should end...that's simple...both play the role of Dumper...they've both made the choice the breakup was either inevitable or the best choice...so they'd both made that choice...one was just too chickensh*t to follow through with that choice (ok, that was harsh and I'm just kidding, but how often do you get to say the word chickensh*t...?) And yes, Denver is pretty wicked awesome.
Author USMCHokie Posted December 7, 2009 Author Posted December 7, 2009 Absolutely without a doubt. She's an amazing woman in my opinion and I highly respected her. The OP has it backwards in my case, it's not that she wasn't good enough for me, it was that I realized that I didn't feel like she thought that I was good enough for her. I stand by my statement. She's not "good enough" for you from a fundamental relationship standpoint...not because she wouldn't be a good wife or mother, but because she wouldn't be a good enough partner...one who should think that you're good enough for them.
Author USMCHokie Posted December 7, 2009 Author Posted December 7, 2009 My point is the utility theory from economics. If you go out and buy one baseball ticket for yourself, that first ticket holds a certain number of "utils." If you purchase a second ticket, it will be much less valuable to you from a utils standpoint. Intrinsicly, Chocolate cake by itself may hold far more utils to you than a blueberry muffin, but eating that cake every day reduces it's threshold below that of the maximum utils of a new blueberry muffin. However, what people don't realize is that the blueberry muffin will go down the same slippery slope and after eating THAT for a year, you'll realize you would have rather just eaten chocolate cake for a year -- because they both ramp down, but the chocolate cake has a higher baseline util over time. My point is much simpler than what you bring up. It's a matter of a single choice made at a single moment in time, completely exclusive of past and future circumstances, events, or choices. At time X, does Dumper think Dumpee is good enough for him? If yes, stay the course. If no, then launch.
soheartbroken Posted December 7, 2009 Posted December 7, 2009 I have to disagree. I think it's way more complicated than that. I hope that my ex would ever say I wasn't good enough for her...but who knows. The two exes that I broke up with were not "not good enough" either. The thought never crossed my mind. They were just incompatible. I think it would take one hell of a mean, selfish, egotistical and narcissistic ex to consciously be thinking that their partner wasn't good enough for them. "Hey buddy, why did you two break up?". "She wasn't good enough for me". Just doesn't ring true in many cases IMHO.
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