Unappealing men versus "normal" men

[InspiredbyYou]

And then they start acting like some kind of a grave injustice is being perpetrated on them because they only get approached by unattractive men (who they classify as 'creepy'). Of course, it doesn't occur to these women that they are totally unappealing to 'normal' men. How could it when they have a netwrok of facebook 'friends' constantly telling them how awesome they are?

 

Strictly from a very superficial (only because I don't know what these men are really about) but if I compare the kinds of men that hit on me in North American vs the caliber of men who do when I have been travelling in Europe and South American the caliber it is a lot higher abroad then it is at home and it is a lot more frequent. Include England in that (I travel to England frequently due to business) The fact of the matter is that men have more balls abroad when it comes to approaching women, and perhaps (I'll give you this) it's because women are a lot more receptive to being chatted up to on the street and they don't see guys as creepy unless they actually are creepy. It's more the norm.

 

Own it, a lot of you guys here really lack the confidence to approach women.

[Yukikazi]

No I'll let you draft it out. What do you think it takes to be a man and what do you think it takes for a man to be respected in the dating process? List points and I'll take it from there.

I don't have to draft out anything.. If you have a penis.. you are a man.. there is your minimum requirement.

The quality of the man is debatable.

 

so i am curious as to what your opinion, as a woman, of the minimum requirements to be.

 

 

I didn't ask you that, I asked JohnnyM, since he clearly seems to know what he is talking about...

 

Why not go into religion? So what can you tell me about that?

Public forum.. anyone can chime in.

This isn't a religious forum and will probably get this locked that much quicker.

About religion?? nada.. I don't believe in God or any of your alls fantasy deities. But if you bring religion into this.. its gonna get even nastier then it has been I'll bet.

[Yukikazi]

 

Own it, a lot of you guys here really lack the confidence to approach women.

I think these very forums support this...

Then again.. it goes both ways as women lack just as much confidence themselves.

 

 

As a well traveled woman.. do the women in europe have the balls themselves to ask guys out or are they mainly like US girls that wont lift a finger even if they know the guy likes them but is too shy to make a move?

[AD1980]

 

Own it, a lot of you guys here really lack the confidence to approach women.

 

With posts like these can you blame us?

 

Unless your extremely good looking some of these owmen think your out of your mind to even look em in the eye and approach their airspace..

 

Sure sounds like fun:rolleyes:

[InspiredbyYou]

I don't have to draft out anything.. If you have a penis.. you are a man.. there is your minimum requirement.

 

 

 

 

Nice to see you've set such high standards for yourself and that you feel your penis is all you should need to attract women. You're in for a real shocker. Classic example of what I am talking about and that explains a lot.

[AD1980]

Nice to see you've set such high standards for yourself and that you feel your penis is all you should need to attract women. You're in for a real shocker. Classic example of what I am talking about and that explains a lot.

 

WHat do women have to do to become a women?

 

Or are we the ones who have to jump through hoops?

[InspiredbyYou]

 

As a well traveled woman.. do the women in europe have the balls themselves to ask guys out or are they mainly like US girls that wont lift a finger even if they know the guy likes them but is too shy to make a move?

 

A guy would be better off answering this but given my own observations

it varies from country to country, the more Scandinavian countries tend to be more liberal in that sense, the Latin ones not so much. England is more like here but the guys are still more balsy, maybe it's liquid courage I don't know...doesn't matter it's still better.

[Yukikazi]

Nice to see you've set such high standards for yourself and that you feel your penis is all you should need to attract women. You're in for a real shocker. Classic example of what I am talking about and that explains a lot.

Wow you really don't get sarcasim do you.

 

I never said a penis is all we need nor did I say anything about attracting girls with it... if that was the case these forums would 'nt have guys on it begging for help in how to deal with women.

[InspiredbyYou]

With posts like these can you blame us?

 

Unless your extremely good looking some of these owmen think your out of your mind to even look em in the eye and approach their airspace..

 

Sure sounds like fun:rolleyes:

 

 

I understand, I totally understand. I know that it's not easy but like it or not we still live in a society where women like the men to make the first move. I'm sure you are not a creep, even if some immature little peabrained girl tries to make you think that, I am sure you are not. Rejection on the other hand is part of the game.

 

A Porsche parked in a garage is safe, but that is not what Porsches are built for.

 

I think in those other countries that we discussed earlier it's just as intimidating for men, believe me I've heard guys tell me that it is intimidating for them too, no one wants to set themselves up for rejection but after a while I think it just becomes less of a hassle. Women still feel creeped out. OMG when I was in Italy it could get pretty creepy at times and how persistent men would get, they were so far over to the other extreme it was too much and it had nothing to do with being ugly their approach was just too much.

[InspiredbyYou]

WHat do women have to do to become a women?

 

 

 

I'll answer this but it will have to be tomorrow, sorry. Gotta run home to make dinner for my sweetheart!

 

yuki, sorry I didn't get the sarcasm in your last post thought you were being serious!

[AD1980]

I understand, I totally understand. I know that it's not easy but like it or not we still live in a society where women like the men to make the first move. I'm sure you are not a creep, even if some immature little peabrained girl tries to make you think that, I am sure you are not. Rejection on the other hand is part of the game.

 

A Porsche parked in a garage is safe, but that is not what Porsches are built for.

 

I think in those other countries that we discussed earlier it's just as intimidating for men, believe me I've heard guys tell me that it is intimidating for them too, no one wants to set themselves up for rejection but after a while I think it just becomes less of a hassle. Women still feel creeped out. OMG when I was in Italy it could get pretty creepy at times and how persistent men would get, they were so far over to the other extreme it was too much and it had nothing to do with being ugly their approach was just too much.

 

The fact that women dont approach men is exactly why the op has no reason to complain..

 

Go and approach the Men you like if you want the, so badly but the op probably couldnt handle the hurt from rejection os in that case next time a "creep" approaches you remember how hard it is to approach someobdy and try to be undertsanding but unless youre a decent classy human being i gues thats not possible with some people..

[InspiredbyYou]

The fact that women dont approach men is exactly why the op has no reason to complain..

.

 

 

You know what? You are spot on! Couldn't agree more. Now I'm outta here....

[Yukikazi]

"Our society is designed to put people in certain roles and keep them in place. This keeps everyone from going nuts on each other, and it also maintains the society we’ve had for thousands of years.

Everyone has a role. You look at the physically unattractive guy. He is supposed to walk through life never feeling good enough, never getting the women he wants or the life he wants. His whole life is brought down socially because he isn’t attractive. This applies to short, fat, etc.

You look at the guy who’s good looking. He’s not supposed to have a care in the world and he’s supposed to walk through life having everything he wants.

When you meet these people you automatically assume what you’re getting. Have you ever met a good looking guy with no self confidence? It’s ****ing weird. Have you ever met an unattractive guy who has confidence? It’s mind blowing at times.

It’s funny how society places certain roles upon us, and it’s even more funny how people walk through life never understanding or realizing these invisible roles that are placed upon them. Years of social behavior by others mold you into what you become, and by will you let it happen. When you break out of that mold the limits are endless."

[Johnny M]

Have you ever met a good looking guy with no self confidence? It’s ****ing weird. Have you ever met an unattractive guy who has confidence? It’s mind blowing at times.

Yes to both questions. And it's not that uncommon either.

[thegreatmoose]

Awww, moose, you are such a sweet, caring guy. If I was a chick, I would totally go out with you....as friends

Yeah, I do believe in treating people with respect when they deserve it.

 

You clearly imply that because I treat certain people with respect that women won't go out with me.

[Sam Spade]

The fact of the matter is that men have more balls abroad when it comes to approaching women, and perhaps (I'll give you this) it's because women are a lot more receptive to being chatted up to on the street and they don't see guys as creepy unless they actually are creepy. It's more the norm.

 

Own it, a lot of you guys here really lack the confidence to approach women.

I've got plenty of confidence and speaking from my experience here in the US, I've had disproportionately A LOT more success chatting up random girls on the streets with girls who turned out to be foreigners or immigrants (without me having prior knowledge that they are not american), than with the homegrown ones.

 

Here's my piece of evidence that on average, the american woman is a stuckup beyoaatch wich unjustifiably inflated sense of herself .

[silic0ntoad]

IDK maybe I just have an over inflat view of myself, but I really don't care what women think of me. I have my own way of chatting a girl up, and usually, I get pretty good response. I've never been labelled creepy. Then again, I think I know what creepy is - the guy in the corner staring at women all night, he finally finds one, and doesn't stop harassing her...

 

I think it all boils down to this: They are just human beings. In reality, humanity itself is pretty meaningless. So rejection, I feel, falls in line with that meaningless value. If a girl rejects you, it doesn't matter. There are 2 billion others to take her place.

 

I am what I would consider a very confident guy. Most people tell me I am confident (Actually airing on the side of cocky) so it helps. Then again, I am not full of myself.

 

But the other key is: I know what I am worth. I know what a woman would have to put into it to get me. Not the other way around.

[calizaggy]

I've got plenty of confidence and speaking from my experience here in the US, I've had disproportionately A LOT more success chatting up random girls on the streets with girls who turned out to be foreigners or immigrants (without me having prior knowledge that they are not american), than with the homegrown ones.

 

Here's my piece of evidence that on average, the american woman is a stuckup beyoaatch wich unjustifiably inflated sense of herself .

 

Good point. Nice to travel a broad and see women that are naturally smiling..It leads the man to talking to her with more respect.

[InspiredbyYou]

"Our society is designed to put people in certain roles and keep them in place. This keeps everyone from going nuts on each other, and it also maintains the society we’ve had for thousands of years.

Everyone has a role. You look at the physically unattractive guy. He is supposed to walk through life never feeling good enough, never getting the women he wants or the life he wants. His whole life is brought down socially because he isn’t attractive. This applies to short, fat, etc.

You look at the guy who’s good looking. He’s not supposed to have a care in the world and he’s supposed to walk through life having everything he wants.

When you meet these people you automatically assume what you’re getting. Have you ever met a good looking guy with no self confidence? It’s ****ing weird. Have you ever met an unattractive guy who has confidence? It’s mind blowing at times.

It’s funny how society places certain roles upon us, and it’s even more funny how people walk through life never understanding or realizing these invisible roles that are placed upon them. Years of social behavior by others mold you into what you become, and by will you let it happen. When you break out of that mold the limits are endless."

 

Gimme a break!

 

You cut and paste a quote from some douchebag on a PUA forum? I thought your thoughts were your own, now you are quoting "Mystery?"

 

I just lost a whole lot of respect for your comments. Not because you are re-quoting I don't mind that at all it's the source that I have a problem with. Sorry. That's being brutally honest.

Edited December 10, 2009 by InspiredbyYou

[D-Jam]

Wow...this topic took leaps and bounds in a short period.

 

I want to address a few things:

 

1) I agree that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. In fact, the ONLY obese women I see who aren't getting dates are:

 

• the ones who really "butch" and ugly themselves up by chopping their hair off and tossing on thick-rimmed glasses
  
• the ones who are chasing athletes and ignoring average and overweight men
  
• the ones who are so socially insecure that they don't really put out a real effort to meet men
  
• the ones who have a lot of red flags in their lives...meaning their weight is simply added to a lot bigger problems.
  

If anything, I see way more "beautiful" women getting less luck in the man department. The fat women find boyfriends and even husbands because the only men who try to get with them are the ones looking for more than a lay. For the "beautiful" women, they get loads of guys looking for sex, thus it's harder for them to find the guy who wants a RL out of that.

 

2) I agree it's bad to lie to a friend when they clearly show why they're having trouble getting dates. So if I had an obese and socially awkward male friend who is chasing 10s and failing. I will up front tell him why he's failing.

 

Same goes for women. Had one colleague in college who was striking out with men. She worked in the college radio station and was trying to hook up with guys who played in bands. However, she wasn't skinny, was very plain jane looking, cut her hair short, and even dressed more "boy-ish". I told her upfront one day when she asked me. She tried to reply that she wasn't going to "slut herself up" just get a man, but I pointed out how men like to date women, not women who dress like men. I said it's ok to be all women's lib and strong/independent...but if you're playing the game of love you still have to appear as a woman...not appear as a man and try to get men to like that.

 

I don't know what became of her, but I hope she got the message. Truth can hurt, but it's got to be told if one isn't getting the results they want. Pandering won't get said man/woman better luck in the dating scene. I'll just temporarily fix their pain for the moment.

 

3) If you let society put a role on you, then you're stuck in it. So if you walk through the world and women think you're "creepy" or "too nice" then perhaps you should look into what you do that does hinder you in the quest for love, but also learn to simply get tough and tell the world to **** itself.

 

Believe me, I used to be all hard on myself for being a nice guy, but I would see the kinds of men these women who reject me would pursue...and thus I realized I wasn't the problem, it was the women. Come on, if she's going to cry all the time how men don't respect her but she'll keep lusting for the jerks, then you shouldn't lower yourself to get her, but realize she's not worth having.

 

If I say things that make women uncomfortable, then that's something I need to remedy...but if women reject me because I give them respect and I listen, then it clearly speaks more how "damaged" and "so not worth it" those women are.

 

Women need to take the same ideology. If men reject you because you have a brain and ambitions, then to hell with them. If they reject you though because you honestly act like a bitch to them, then fix the problem. If the men you want reject you because you're obese, then lose weight or pick men who like larger women. If the men you want reject you because they want you to be a skinny fashion model...then to hell with them and move on. Plenty of fish out there.

[donnamaybe]

Here's my piece of evidence that on average, the american woman is a stuckup beyoaatch wich unjustifiably inflated sense of herself .

 

Some, I'm sure.

[Yukikazi]

Gimme a break!

 

You cut and paste a quote from some douchebag on a PUA forum? I thought your thoughts were your own, now you are quoting "Mystery?"

 

I just lost a whole lot of respect for your comments. Not because you are re-quoting I don't mind that at all it's the source that I have a problem with. Sorry. That's being brutally honest.

My thoughts are my own. Sometimes others can word the thoughts better.

 

Well if that's mystery, and I'll agree that guy is a douche tool, then the source I got it from failed to cite its origins.

 

So you loose respect for my comments due not to a quote but to the source of the quote, which in this instance originated from a different source then expected... mmmkay...

Whether you respect my comments or not doesn't change the comments themselves or the possible truth behind them. If you have issue with the douche tool.. that's fine..

[silic0ntoad]

MOST, I'm sure.

 

Fixed that for you.

 

I can honestly say, having lived in Norway for two years, that women in general in the US are so completely delusional when it comes to dating that it's laughable.

 

Let me explain.

 

Most women over here love jerks. Is this a quality shared because of natural programming or social brainwashing? Think about it.

 

Most women over here want nice guys, but reject nice guys. Social brainwashing, or natural programming?

 

I see it constantly. Girl dates guy. Guy uses girl. Girl rejects nice guy to pander over guy who used her.

 

It's ridiculous. I am not saying ALL women over in the US are worthless, but honestly, the majority are, and this is coming from a guy with alot of dating experience and success.

 

Socially women in the US are programmed to pine for the alpha dominant male. Most guys who portray this attitude are users prime, and women don't understand the social inequality of the equation.

 

IDK. Just my experience. In Norway, women were eager to talk to you, and would approach you if they were interested. Not that I mind making first moves, but it's nice to feel chased too every once in a while.

 

It's a two way street. All the women I know use this line, but they never want to put the effort in on their side of the road.

[carhill]

If I say things that make women uncomfortable, then that's something I need to remedy...but if women reject me because I give them respect and I listen, then it clearly speaks more how "damaged" and "so not worth it" those women are.

 

I want to compliment you on an insightful post in total and share that this one area was where I did a lot of looking in the mirror and discovered that it was indeed my attitude that was in need of repair. Formerly, I felt rejected by women who thought me enough to be their emotional tampon and accept gentlemanly behaviors whilst pursuing whatever the type of man it was they were 'attracted' to. Now, understanding that better, I still offer some modicum of understanding and compassion, but without the emotional content or investment and, upon discovering their attraction style being unhealthy for me, feel happy that they chose to direct that elsewhere and not bring their incompatibility as an intimate partner to my doorstep. I'm happy they walked (or ran) on by, rather than feeling rejected. I changed myself. That's one reason my divorce has gone as peacefully as it has. Accepting the clarity which is there

[InspiredbyYou]

My thoughts are my own. Sometimes others can word the thoughts better.

 

Well if that's mystery, and I'll agree that guy is a douche tool, then the source I got it from failed to cite its origins.

 

So you loose respect for my comments due not to a quote but to the source of the quote, which in this instance originated from a different source then expected... mmmkay...

Whether you respect my comments or not doesn't change the comments themselves or the possible truth behind them. If you have issue with the douche tool.. that's fine..

 

 

Perhaps my comment was a bit harsh sounding when written out, it was not intended to be that harsh. I apologize. It was said in humor should have added more laughing faces..

 

 

I don't know if it is was Mystery, I said that because he is the only PUA I know of who is annoying enough that I actually remember. It was one of the members of the site who wrote that I think and as far as I am concerned, they are all interchangeable at the end of the day.

 

The problem I have with your quote is mostly that it plays on victim mentality. To think that society is fully in control of the role you play seems like a defeatist attitude to have. Sure anyone can be a puppet of anyone else, if you choose to live your life that way. Furthermore, do you know what type of people think that they have the power to control other's roles in life? The types of people who thrive on enforcing negative power onto others, ie. the types of people who would rather put someone down, under the pretext of "helping" another human being by being honest for their own good. In other words predators.

 

We have seen a few examples of those people on this thread so far. What happened when we asked them to post a picture of themselves so that society can also be brutally honest with them about their shortcomings? If they truly believe their brand of honesty they should have no problem opening themselves up to the floor for a little constructive criticism.

 

They resorted to insults and asked me to post my own picture, which is already up by the way. I could have a picture of anything up and they would still find fault in it. Why? Because it is clear these types of people are only out to do one thing and one thing only: make themselves feel better by projecting onto others their own dissatisfaction. Their behavior here is directly linked to their opinions of what is "helpful" to others. Yet these sames "people" who say that making nice comments to someone who doesn't deserve it, is actually lying or blowing smoke up someone's ass, refuse to subject themselves to the same type of "honesty" they profess is "helpful" for others.

 

"It's ok to criticize the 300lb woman but don't put me under the same type of scrutiny" Ironic don't you think?