After the A...

[OWoman]

Every now and then, a fOW or fOM pops out of the woodwork, returning to post about Life After The A, and how much better it is. They usually draw tumultuous applause, as everyone agrees that life really is so much better when one's life is lived according to one's own morals, priorities, time scales, ambitions, plans and requirements, and that the sorry, depressed state they used to be in where everything was about the MP, where the AP felt alienated from their circle of friends, their family, their colleagues and their neighbours, was toxic and unhealthy on all levels. It feels a bit like welcoming someone back after they've been on a long journey to hell and back, or perhaps been captured by pirates and kept in heinous conditions while their release was negotiated at higher levels.

 

I suppose my question is this: if everyone - and it really is everyone - agrees that life is much better, healthier and more rewarding if it is lived on one's own terms rather than in a state of depression / oppression / suppression of oneself, why do people willingly consent to be treated so badly in Rs that are supposed to be loving - and continue to do so, despite acknowledging the damage and undesirability of such situations?

 

There is nothing inherently abusive in an A for the two parties involved (I'm not referring to the BS here; merely to the two APs). It is perfectly conceivable, and there have been several examples here on LS, to have As that leave both parties invigorated, energised and affirmed, without all of the negative baggage so often decried here (the pain, suffering, misery, etc). Given that those As that tend to have "positive" outcomes (in the sense of the OW / OM landing up happily together with the fMP) tend to be characterised by OWs / OMs who did not relinquish their sense of self, their morality, their priorities, their ambitions, their desires, their hopes or their interests, who insisted on - and got - respect in the A, who were not afraid to demand - and get - what they considered their due... why do OWs and OMs allow themselves to be undermined and abused in As KNOWING that that kind of R dynamic was prejudicing the likely outcome against their hopes?

 

Being treated like **** in a R - any R, not just an A - is not likely to guarantee you the outcome you want, ultimately. So why do so many put up with it?

 

Of course it is very very difficult to transform the dynamics of an R (any R) once they are firmly entrenched, particularly if one is on the underside of the power dynamic. Why should the dominant person give up their power, their privilege and their comfort, when it is so clearly not in their own best interests to do so? And yet, if the R is to have any hope at being sustainable and healthy, this would need to happen. I've yet to encounter an OW or OM who wants to sustain a situation of their being utterly dependent on their MP for whatever the MP decides they can, or can't, offer, and when... into a new, full-time, long-term R with the fMP once the MP has left their M. And yet, without changing - or at least challenging - the very skewed and damaging dynamics of the current R, they hope that the D will magically transform things between them and that all of their learned, established practices and habits, ways of communicating and the balance of power will somehow shift into an equal, healthy, balanced R...

 

I guess my words of advice to current APs would be: "be that change you want to see". Become that R you want to have - if you think your MP's M sucks wet dogs (and, surely, it must - or they wouldn't be with you?) and you could do better, why not do better? Claim that honesty, integrity, equality and respect in your A - establish healthy patterns NOW so that your R has a chance of working out - if that's what you want. It's not going to change unless YOU change it.

[whichwayisup]

I suppose my question is this: if everyone - and it really is everyone - agrees that life is much better, healthier and more rewarding if it is lived on one's own terms rather than in a state of depression / oppression / suppression of oneself, why do people willingly consent to be treated so badly in Rs that are supposed to be loving - and continue to do so, despite acknowledging the damage and undesirability of such situations?

 

Sometimes people, even knowing what they're up against, still need to go through it and decide on their own. Not all are strong and can prevent a huge hurt from happening through other people's experiences. It's rare, but possible. I do remember afew OW posting, about to get into an A, and with the help of many around here, chose not to pursue the A.

 

Being treated like **** in a R - any R, not just an A - is not likely to guarantee you the outcome you want, ultimately. So why do so many put up with it?

 

I totally agree, if one is in a bad relationship or whatever and it's doing harm, they should get out, reguardless of how much they love the other person. Again, problem is, many who are IN the situation, don't have the strength, nor the willingness to change and do something about it. Until one hits their rock bottom, then that's when changes and decisions are made.

[Fallen Angel]

While I do not consider my R abusive per se, it has been a bit hard on my own sense of worth, so I am starting to be that change. I recently had a discussion with MM about the dynamic (me always being available and waiting until he had time for me) not working for me, and that I was going to change that. I told him that I was tired of my life being on hold for him, and it would no longer be so.

 

I am taking on more hours at work, and more responsibility in the places I volunteer, and am not so readily available to him. I have started making plans with friends, and refuse to cancel them in order to fit into his schedule.

 

I have made it known that I am "single" to my friends and acquaintances, and am even in cahoots with a single friend of mine to have a 'friendly competition' to help force us into re-entering the dating world. (We have set goals for ourselves in the 'dating world' and if either of us fails to accomplish our tasks for the week, we have to buy the other lunch, or babysit for free.. lol *ie, this week we both have to get two phone numbers for single men we think are possibles, and have to give our number to at least 2 men.. etc. etc)

 

I am making an effort to take back my power. Small though it may seem to some, it is a huge step for me.

 

But I will say that MM doesn't seem to like the changes too much.

 

I actually caught him looking in my accounts on 'social websites' IE fubar, myspace, tagged..

 

When I confronted him about this, he apologized for inavding my priavacy and said it would never happen again. I think he was a bit stung when I replied that I really didn't mind, as I had never lied to him, nor hidden anything from him, and if he was curious as to what I did and with whom I did it, all he need do is ask. (But really, his behaving that way threw me for a bit of a loop.. after all, if he wants me all to himself, then he should be willing to reciprocate in kind. )

[wheelwright]

I think the MP and OP are both in the process of working things out as they are happening. It's not as simple as this R is unhealthy. Most times it starts out nas explorational. What could we be together? Like normal relationships.

 

Then you start to work out what's healthy and what's not, both in the M and the EMA.

 

By virtue of having an EMA that has emotional facets, the MP and OP both know the M is unhealthy too.

 

Everyone then has to wait and see what values, emotions, money issues, cowardice, history of the APs takes precedence in the ultimate outcome.

 

This part is not that different from any R.

 

But I agree that to begin with the whole thing is a straw house easily blown down. And without the foundations of commitment, blown down is what will come of the A.

 

Just working out and making choices we want to live with. The unhealthiness was in the MP before they started.

 

Not sure if this is for the OP too. Sometimes, sometimes not.

[scaredinlove]

Well... I didn't end my affair because of moral or what other people think but because I wanted to be with exMM all the time and he was married.

 

The first few years were just like haeven but when I wanted to be with him all the time and it didn't work things changed. When we had the Dday things becoome crazy but I held on to it.

 

I guess there are many types of affairs and many different stories. I feel I went to heaven first and than straight to hell.

 

Life may be better after the affair is over but you will never will be the same, specially after the dday and all the toxic crazinnes that come with it.

 

Some days I look back and I miss exMM and I know he was the love of my life. I also know it is over and if he knocked at my door right now and asked me back , I would never go back.

 

The affair has taught more about life than and people that anything else...

 

So it is not about moral or what others think ... it is just that at certain point you want to be with that person all the time , or call them whenever you need , not in some pre schedule time. You want to have a real boyfriend not a half one.

 

It is hard to live without exMM and it has been difficult to start over and I know I will never forget him. But I am happy that I don't have to deal with the drama and fugitive encounters anymore.

 

That about it.

[outofthedark]

Claim that honesty, integrity, equality and respect in your A - establish healthy patterns NOW so that your R has a chance of working out - if that's what you want. It's not going to change unless YOU change it.

I had all that before we left our spouses. It was after that it all went to hell. We have certainely tired. Well I have, he was out fking strangers while I was unaware. Things he didnt do before he left his wife. Oh wait, yes he did, he was fkin me. But I wasnt a random craigslist booty call or some waitress that served him pancakes.

What is given and presented during the affair is not always what you get after... i am living that precious class of hell at the moment

[outofthedark]

during the affair, ever. I dont care how much you think you know them, you don till you know them unmarried and alone.

[OWoman]

This thread wasn't intended as an indictment of anyone, or a calling out of them. Rather, I guess, to prompt people to follow through with their own thought processes - if they're happy to acknowledge and applaud something in others, why not apply that same thing to themselves?

 

I fully understand that many Rs "just happen" and develop out of something else they were never intended to be - like close friendships that stray over into EAs with neither party aware of crossing a boundary until something makes them realise they've done it... but what I don't understand is the extent to which people are willing to compromise (expecting it to be for the short-term) in the interests of something better longer-term, when the compromises themselves seem so strongly to jeopardise any hopes of the longer-term hoped-for outcome.

 

But I guess that's the power of hormones - if they weren't so omnipotent, no one would ever breed and the human race would have been extinct aeons ago...

[MizFit]

Very interesting thread OW...I love your posts and the quality of the topic of this thread is what I would expect from you.

 

Where to begin...I"m almost a month after DDay and having xMM go back to his wife. I'm in a bit of a different situation to most I believe-he has been married many years and has a daughter who will never leave home (due to learning disabilities). He was clear when we started getting close that he was looking for an affair...his wife had always been marginal in her enjoyment of sex and a few issues (that they had sought help for both through counseling and medically) were not resolving themselves. From the start I gave him my views-sort it and don't go outside the marriage for any reason.

 

With that said...we had a very intense 6 month affair and there was no end in sight until she came across an email he thought he had deleted. It unleashed everything and she ended up figuring out his password to the email address he used with me and read everything. As he said from the start he fought tooth and nail to go home...he never made me promises...we did profess our love and to this day I have no doubt of his feelings for me or mine for him. He is home and I've lost someone I care for very deeply.

 

Out of that...I learned something about myself. I can truly love. I loved him like I haven't loved anyone for over 20 years. It's painful and emotional and glorious...pretty much as it was in the affair. I look at the break up as just that-a breakup. I love him and I've lost him. I'm not healed and I won't be for a long time, but that's because of the love and the abruptness of the end. Having said that a friend of mine was unceremoniously dumped by someone she loved with no warning at all either...he walked into her house with a box of her things and in 5 minutes was walking out leaving total devastation in his wake.

 

The other thing I'd like to comment on. I never sought out a married man...I met him and everything about him struck me. He was everything I wanted in a partner (other than available)...he never lied about what I was to expect so I knew I didn't stand a chance...but I loved our time together. I loved getting to know him and as I said to him I'm glad I had part of him than none of him. He was more to me than any man I've dated for many years...it wasn't ideal, but just like everyone else I accepted the tradeoff. Some tradeoff for the perception of a perfect family...some for financial issues...some for kids. At the end of the day we all weigh situations and make our decisions. No matter how much I ache for him and miss him I would not change a moment with him.

 

I'm hoping I've hit some of what you're looking for OW.

[torranceshipman]

Maybe people are more likely to accept less in an A, because they feel like the fact that the MM who is 'in a loveless M with a crazy bipolar woman who hates him and who he is about to leave' (i.e. the usual lines) allows for a temporary compromise on their usual principles/morals/way of acting, due to the (perceived) temporary and unusual nature of the situation, combined with the many promises given by the MM that the situation will be changing very soon with a D (that often never seems to come). Then once the OW has lowered their principles once, it becomes easier to just compromise a little more here and there as time goes on and then the self-esteem starts getting knocked more, and the situation perpetuates...

[MizFit]

Maybe people are more likely to accept less in an A, because they feel like the fact that the MM who is 'in a loveless M with a crazy bipolar woman who hates him and who he is about to leave' (i.e. the usual lines) allows for a temporary compromise on their usual principles/morals/way of acting, due to the (perceived) temporary and unusual nature of the situation, combined with the many promises given by the MM that the situation will be changing very soon with a D (that often never seems to come). Then once the OW has lowered their principles once, it becomes easier to just compromise a little more here and there as time goes on and then the self-esteem starts getting knocked more, and the situation perpetuates...

 

Or maybe you get normal women with no self esteem issues who fall in love with someone. Even though the W has not ben slagged off and no promises have been made she takes the decision to enjoy what she can of the R. To her it is worth it to have part of him rather than none of him. Your very narrow vision of OW is not true of all of us...your very narrow vision or MM is not true of all of them. Is my xMM wrong for going outside the marriage-absolutely...did he lie to me or bait me to be his OW-no...I fell in love and made the decision. Not every OW is a sniveling bucket of nerves waiting for the MM to guide her towards her own personal hell.

[whatever_nevermind]

Though I wouldn’t label an A as abusive, I don’t think EA/PAs are genuinely healthy or happy. They seem to have their share of hurt far beyond that of a normal R. It seems so unfair that the OW is willing to commit and devote herself to a person not willing to give them the same. I find it a sad situation

to subject oneself to for the OW and a selfish and cowardly thing of the WS IMO. To me it always looked like the MM is getting benefits from every angle while the OW gets the short end of stick.

I’m not without my bouts of "meaningless" encounters with MM, but when I noticed the potential of a R with my D/MM becoming serious, I made it clear that nothing other than the friendship we shared would ever be considered as long as he chose to stay happily/unhappily married. And I stuck to my word. The first 1½ I never took it past friendship. Within the 2nd year he filed for D and separated from his W. It wasn’t until then that we shared our first kiss. After another year when the D became final is when our R got physical. I think I saved myself a lot of emotional pain by going about the way I did (this did not save me from the scorn of his xW). Everything he said about his “miserable M”, his “reasons for staying” and his “love for me” didn’t mean a whole lot if I could see it in his actions. We have been a couple ever since his D 10years ago. Whe knows what the outcome would have been otherwise.

[White Flower]

 

I guess my words of advice to current APs would be: "be that change you want to see". Become that R you want to have - if you think your MP's M sucks wet dogs (and, surely, it must - or they wouldn't be with you?) and you could do better, why not do better? Claim that honesty, integrity, equality and respect in your A - establish healthy patterns NOW so that your R has a chance of working out - if that's what you want. It's not going to change unless YOU change it.

As always, very insightful thread OWoman!

 

I never thought I would find myself involved in an A but during the crumbling phase of my M I was heavily pursued by the most scrumptuous man on the planet and I found it hard to resist him. It was platonic for a year and a half but I knew I was in love about a year into it. As my earlier posts show, I was so torn with the struggle of being involved in an A and how I saw myself in it. Boy, have things changed!

 

We went through a lot of ups and downs and through that emotional roller coaster our R became redefined over and over until it finally became what you suggest it should be: what I want. But it took a lot of recognizing of the patterns you discuss in your OP and I became concerned about falling, and settling, for certain patterns that were unacceptable to me. After expressing this and making myself clear, he was able to take some steps to making the R what I needed it to be.

 

The steps he is taking blow me away. I never thought he would do it.

 

It isn't easy demanding what you want. You must be perfectly willing to walk away and never look back when making a demand. If you are strong enough, you can pull it off and only you can decide how strong you want to be.

 

The strength you hold out for yourself can only make a R that much stronger.

[OWoman]

The steps he is taking blow me away.

 

There's nothing like "the kiss of life"...

[White Flower]

There's nothing like "the kiss of life"...

 

Oh boy, the ways that can be taken!

 

But on a serious note, as my signature states, that is how I literally felt his kisses to be. Through the affair fog (as some like to call the beginning of one) the one thing that was not confusing was the amazing chemistry felt in those kisses. That has stayed true and consistent through it all and has not faded one bit. Chemistry like that, along with love, brings joy to your life.

[jennie-jennie]

Oh boy, the ways that can be taken!

 

But on a serious note, as my signature states, that is how I literally felt his kisses to be. Through the affair fog (as some like to call the beginning of one) the one thing that was not confusing was the amazing chemistry felt in those kisses. That has stayed true and consistent through it all and has not faded one bit. Chemistry like that, along with love, brings joy to your life.

 

Like your signature!

[White Flower]

Like your signature!

Aw, I think I might have a follower! Thanks Jennie-jennie:cool:

[OWoman]

Oh boy, the ways that can be taken!

 

Taken, yes, or given...