Sexual attraction and hard wiring

[soserious1]

I'm starting this thread due to discussion in the the thread about sexless marriage and weight gain.

 

Many there felt that a spouse who let themselves go and gained weight is conveying an attitude of disrespect to their partner, it was noted by many people that a lot of men are hard wired to find only slim, trim women sexually exciting and that because this preference is coded into one's brain that this preference isn't "shallow" and that women need to convey respect to men's needs in this area via strenuous exercise and dieting to remain slim and toned.

 

I'm okay with the concept of our brain's being hard wired into finding various aspects of physical appearance sexually exciting... or not, however all this to me begs another question.

 

In addition to being hard wired to prefer slender women, most men are also hard wired to prefer young women with things like a tiny waist and large breasts, clear, unwrinkled skin and other signs of youth being visual cues that tell a man that a woman is fit and healthy enough to mate, carry a pregnancy to term and to deliver a healthy baby.

 

Ok, men are hard wired to be "visual" a respectful wife will take great pains to keep her weight low and her body trim and tight.. but what happens to the rest of it?

 

What happens as wife ages and loses those visual markers of youth and fertility, when she wrinkles, when her breasts sag, when she finishes menopause?

 

What happens when the sight of the wife is no longer visually exciting enough for a man to get and keep an erection from start to finish?

 

What does the aging wife need to do to display via actions and attitudes the proper degree of respect for her husband's hard wired need to see signs of youthful beauty in order to become sexually aroused?

[angie2443]

I was about to start a thread called "the aging wife". I guess you kind of beat me to it.

 

What I find interesting, is the sharp divide of opinions on this topic. Many say that aging is acceptable, except for the weight part, and would still be attracted to their partner at 50 (60?) and so on. Many others say that a woman looses her apeal at 30 to 35 years of age, even if she does stay slim. In Hollywood, you often see ancient men paired of with women 15 years or younger then them. Yes, I know Hollywood is a bit fake, but the fact you don't see the reverse means something. On the OM/OW board, you see many OW claiming that they are younger (10 or more years) than the wife. There seems to be one camp that says you'll be fine as long as you keep your shape. Another says it's all down hill after (insert age). I wonder, which is it?

[CarrieT]

Another says it's all down hill after (insert age). I wonder, which is it?

 

I don't buy the hard-wiring philosophy.

 

As I am growing older (I am now 45), I am finding myself attracted to older gentlemen (60s); their sophistication and class are indefinably sexy.

 

And, as a middle-aged woman, I can attest that sex now is WAY better than it was in my 20s and 30s.

[angie2443]

As I am growing older (I am now 45), I am finding myself attracted to older gentlemen (60s); their sophistication and class are indefinably sexy.

.

 

I think the ones expected to stay young and tight, are not the men but the women. There seems to be a world of differance between how men and women are viewed in this regard.

[angie2443]

As I am growing older (I am now 45), I am finding myself attracted to older gentlemen (60s); their sophistication and class are indefinably sexy.

 

.

 

I think what the OP is getting at (I'll have to read the post again) is that men stop desiring women after a certain, and want them younger and younger, in respect to themselves. For a woman like you who prefers much older men, this works. For women who prefer men their age, it makes it harder for them to find a partner they feel attracted to.

[hopeful1980]

Aging does not equal weight gain. Aging is a natural process; weight gain is the process of ignoring what your body is telling you it needs for you to do - more of one thing and less of another.

 

I think the OP is speaking more along the lines of what is visually attractive to a man. It's a given that fat is unattractive, but are wrinkles and saggy boobs on an older THIN woman as much of a turn off? There's no doubt that an older woman is not as attractive as a younger woman to most men just as a fat woman isn't as attractive as a thin one.

[soserious1]

I think what the OP is getting at (I'll have to read the post again) is that men stop desiring women after a certain, and want them younger and younger, in respect to themselves. For a woman like you who prefers much older men, this works. For women who prefer men their age, it makes it harder for them to find a partner they feel attracted to.

 

What I'm getting at is this, much has been made about men's "hard wiring" and about how men are visually oriented in terms of what excites them sexually when the issue concerns weight gain. A woman who posted about her sexless marriage was taken to task for not conveying an attitude of respect to her husband because she didn't honor his hard wired need for a slim toned wife.

 

The point.. if we are to accept that hard wired needs are just that, things coded into us without which we can't really feel sexual desire and we aren't "shallow" for having these needs, well then what about the rest of that hard wiring.

 

Men are hard wired to look for certain physical traits in women that indicate they are young and healthy enough to mate, carry a pregnancy to term and to deliver a healthy baby. ie: a man's brain is going to trigger him to be sexually aroused, excited by youthful female beauty, that same hard wiring is going to tell him to walk on by fat, obviously sick or old, infertile females. This is coded into him, he isn't "shallow" for prefereing youthful beauty anymore than he is shallow for desiring a slim, toned wife.

 

What specifically does an aging wife need to do to convey

respect and sensitivity to this aspect of her husband's visual needs as a man?

Edited December 4, 2009 by soserious1

[mem11363]

My biggest future fear is that of eventually losing my ability to love my wife sexually and in so doing hurting her - making her feel undesirable.

 

It is not a near term fear, but it is a deep one. I hope she loses her desire for me before that happens, though I am fairly certain she will never lose her desire to feel desirable....

 

Entropy sucks http://www.loveshack.org/forums/images/red/icons/icon8.gif

 

 

I'm starting this thread due to discussion in the the thread about sexless marriage and weight gain.

 

Many there felt that a spouse who let themselves go and gained weight is conveying an attitude of disrespect to their partner, it was noted by many people that a lot of men are hard wired to find only slim, trim women sexually exciting and that because this preference is coded into one's brain that this preference isn't "shallow" and that women need to convey respect to men's needs in this area via strenuous exercise and dieting to remain slim and toned.

 

I'm okay with the concept of our brain's being hard wired into finding various aspects of physical appearance sexually exciting... or not, however all this to me begs another question.

 

In addition to being hard wired to prefer slender women, most men are also hard wired to prefer young women with things like a tiny waist and large breasts, clear, unwrinkled skin and other signs of youth being visual cues that tell a man that a woman is fit and healthy enough to mate, carry a pregnancy to term and to deliver a healthy baby.

 

Ok, men are hard wired to be "visual" a respectful wife will take great pains to keep her weight low and her body trim and tight.. but what happens to the rest of it?

 

What happens as wife ages and loses those visual markers of youth and fertility, when she wrinkles, when her breasts sag, when she finishes menopause?

 

What happens when the sight of the wife is no longer visually exciting enough for a man to get and keep an erection from start to finish?

 

What does the aging wife need to do to display via actions and attitudes the proper degree of respect for her husband's hard wired need to see signs of youthful beauty in order to become sexually aroused?

[SerenityX2]

Hopefully they married a better class of man.....

 

Perhaps since you have had a really bad experience, it's coloring your perception of what guys want.

 

I do take care of myself, and I'm slim...I can pretty much thank genetics for that and my aging gracefully. I take care of myself for me, b/c it's how I feel best. There are guys out there that put too much emphasis on the physical. I dated guys who only saw the "face" it was my H who saw my heart and that takes lovemaking to a different level far beyond the superficial.

 

Not all guys want the big breasts. I'm small and anyone significant in my H's past were also small as that's his preference. In his words, we he dated a girl with big breasts, he said in his experience the weren't nearly as responsive he said they were like flapjacks, where as mine get aroused and respond to his touch, that is what turns him on. He's a leg and butt man but he also recognizes it's normal to age, he sees me deeper than just the superficial.

 

Not once when I was dating did I think oh I'm "competing" against the 30 somethings (I was 41 when I met H). I was me and no one else was, if someone didn't like "me" ...there's the door. I got to a point where I was comfortable and loved who I was and had become, I wanted someone who saw that...and I didn't compromise til I did.

 

You have to 1st be happy with who you are inside and the person who will gravitate to that will be interested in more than the superficial.

 

The attraction and chemistry are important for those 2 people, but that can't be defined and put in a box that "this" is what is attractive and nothing else.

 

Some guys will appreciate that the wrinkles and signs of age show that you've lived, loved and laughed. YMMV

[soserious1]

Hopefully they married a better class of man.....

 

Perhaps since you have had a really bad experience, it's coloring your perception of what guys want.

 

I do take care of myself, and I'm slim...I can pretty much thank genetics for that and my aging gracefully. I take care of myself for me, b/c it's how I feel best. There are guys out there that put too much emphasis on the physical. I dated guys who only saw the "face" it was my H who saw my heart and that takes lovemaking to a different level far beyond the superficial.

 

Not all guys want the big breasts. I'm small and anyone significant in my H's past were also small as that's his preference. In his words, we he dated a girl with big breasts, he said in his experience the weren't nearly as responsive he said they were like flapjacks, where as mine get aroused and respond to his touch, that is what turns him on. He's a leg and butt man but he also recognizes it's normal to age, he sees me deeper than just the superficial.

 

Not once when I was dating did I think oh I'm "competing" against the 30 somethings (I was 41 when I met H). I was me and no one else was, if someone didn't like "me" ...there's the door. I got to a point where I was comfortable and loved who I was and had become, I wanted someone who saw that...and I didn't compromise til I did.

 

You have to 1st be happy with who you are inside and the person who will gravitate to that will be interested in more than the superficial.

 

The attraction and chemistry are important for those 2 people, but that can't be defined and put in a box that "this" is what is attractive and nothing else.

 

Some guys will appreciate that the wrinkles and signs of age show that you've lived, loved and laughed. YMMV

 

 

 

This has nothing to do with "class " it has nothing to do with a man being "shallow"

 

This is all about hard wiring, those drives and instincts which are programmed into us from birth.

 

IMHO, if we're going to cite men's hard wiring when it comes to his visual need to see a wife with a slim toned body, then we need to also buy the rest of the package

no selectively picking and choosing.

 

A wife needs to honor and respect her husband's inborn need to see a slim, shapely figure by conveying her respect for this need by exercise and diet.

 

How then is an aging wife to convey respect for her husband's other visual needs as a man? What should she say or do when she can no longer meet those needs?

 

and, when typing your answer, remember, the need to see youthful female beauty is hardwired.. no "shallowness" whatsoever.

Edited December 4, 2009 by soserious1

[ADF]

The idea that men are "hard wired" to prefer very slim women is belied by the fact that standards of female beauty vary considerably from culture to culture. They also vary within a particular culture over time. Many have noted that Marilyn Monroe, considered the ideal of feminine beauty in the 1940s and 1950s, wouldn't be able to get a modeling job today. Today, she'd be considered too heavy.

 

When people start talking about how men are hard-wired to be this way or that way, I get a little suspicious. Too often, claiming to be hard-wired to do X, Y, or Z just becomes a Devil-made-me-do-it excuse for bad behavior.

[threebyfate]

Honestly, neither issue is associated to respect for their partners. That's just pure manipulation.

 

Where respect comes into play, is if a woman lets herself go to the level of obesity, she's not giving her own health any respect, to the point of being self-indulgent.

 

As for signs of aging, there's beauty in every age. If a man's trapped in his own search for eternal youth and fear of death, it's time to move on from someone like this.

 

soserious, you've taken on someone else's baggage. Don't you think you've got enough to carry?

[GorillaTheater]

This is all about hard wiring, those drives and instincts which are programmed into us from birth.

 

Men are also hard-wired to kill men who intrude into their territory (i.e., yard, office, the next urinal). Somehow we manage to rise above that.

 

So yeah, I think we ARE talking about how shallow men are here.

[mem11363]

Wife is 47 now - looks great - feels great - :)

 

I am not worried about being 50-55 or even 60. But I don't meet women north of 60 who do anything for me in that way. But hey - maybe what I find desirable will simply morph to track how my wife looks. She doesn't "seem" old to me now. And my body reacts very well to hers.

 

As for the skeptical comments about hard wired preferences - I have had a pronounced preference for slim, small breasted women since I was 10-11 and started going girl crazy....

 

When guys would say - look at that girl with the giant boobs I would just yawn....

 

My biggest future fear is that of eventually losing my ability to love my wife sexually and in so doing hurting her - making her feel undesirable.

 

It is not a near term fear, but it is a deep one. I hope she loses her desire for me before that happens, though I am fairly certain she will never lose her desire to feel desirable....

 

Entropy sucks http://www.loveshack.org/forums/images/red/icons/icon8.gif

[prenus.]

I don't buy the hard-wiring philosophy.

 

As I am growing older (I am now 45), I am finding myself attracted to older gentlemen (60s); their sophistication and class are indefinably sexy.

 

And, as a middle-aged woman, I can attest that sex now is WAY better than it was in my 20s and 30s.

 

Your attraction may be more "hard-wired" than you realize. From an evolutionary biology perspective, men with longer life spans tend to produce children who live longer. While a younger man may or may not have greater stamina for sex than an otherwise identical man, the older man does have the "biological certification" of a certain period of longevity which the younger man has yet to obtain.

 

While I have no idea whether you have gone thru menopause, if you have yet to experience that phase of life, your evolutionary "machinery" may be attracting you to men who could potentially help pass your genes further into the future. Just a thought.

 

Also, younger sex partners have yet to go traverse the learning curve of what makes for better sexual experiences for their partners. So, all else being equal, if we take your knowledge acquired since you first had sex and combine it with the corresponding enlightenment of a partner in the 60-70 year age range (insert your own erotic imagery here), I definitely see how your experiences might be better now than 20 years ago.

 

Have fun!

[JamesM]

Honestly, neither issue is associated to respect for their partners. That's just pure manipulation.

 

Where respect comes into play, is if a woman lets herself go to the level of obesity, she's not giving her own health any respect, to the point of being self-indulgent.

 

As for signs of aging, there's beauty in every age. If a man's trapped in his own search for eternal youth and fear of death, it's time to move on from someone like this.

 

 

Well said.

 

I don't think that getting fat means that a wife is ignoring or disrespecting her husband. It MAY mean that. It COULD be her motive. But using that logic, a man watches football on Saturday as a way of disrespecting his wife. It could be if she sees that nothing gets done around the house and because he knows that it spites her, but most likely it is because he sees football as a priority (and no, that is not what I do. ).

 

There are so many reasons that women gain weight and don't lose it, and very few times is it because of disrespect to the husband.

 

How selfish is the man who demands that his wife lose weight simply to make him think she is attractive? Is his love so shallow?

 

I am not worried about being 50-55 or even 60. But I don't meet women north of 60 who do anything for me in that way. But hey - maybe what I find desirable will simply morph to track how my wife looks. She doesn't "seem" old to me now. And my body reacts very well to hers.

 

Oddly, as I grow older with my wife, she seems more beautiful to me. I look back at her ten years ago, and now I see her as better looking. How I view her when she is seventy is hard to say, but I think it comes down to how deep is my love? And that goes for sexual attraction, too.

 

I saw a movie the other night called The Family Stone, where the husband (played by Craig T. Nelson) makes love (no, not shown) to his wife (played by Diane Keaton) who is dying of cancer. It shows how her breasts have been taken off. I know it is a movie, but it is an example of how a husband views his wife as more than just a body. My thought was of the thread previously mentioned....could a husband who sees weight as an obstacle to his attraction look past the physical loss of breasts of his wife and still sexually be attracted to her?

 

Soserious, I do not believe that men are hardwired for a certain body type. I do think most men become attracted to and love their wife because of the body type she has. However, the personality is what keeps them, and then their definition of the perfect body type is defined with their wife in mind...if their love grows deeper for her. And for most men, if she gains weight or loses weight, they do not love her more or less. Of course, they may see her as outwardly more attractive, but this doesn't mean that their love ebbs and flows based on weight or physical standards.

[flc]

I am 52 and I look at the whole package. Physical attraction is important but so is emotional and intellectual attraction.

 

In general I can say women in their 30s tend to be more physically attractive to me than women in their 50s but I do not tend to find them more attractive on a emotional or intellectual level. That is not to say that there are not 30yos that are or that there are not extremely attractive 50yo women, in fact I am dating one. For me physical attraction has become less important as I have aged than emotional and intellectual attraction, everyone ages.

 

With that said both of us work very hard to keep fit for our ages. Right now we are both probably 5lbs overweight and we work hard to make sure that is as bad as it gets. It is important to me that I stay in shape and it is important to her that she stays in shape. This is one of things that makes us compatible.

[SerenityX2]

This has nothing to do with "class " it has nothing to do with a man being "shallow"

 

This is all about hard wiring, those drives and instincts which are programmed into us from birth.

 

and, when typing your answer, remember, the need to see youthful female beauty is hardwired.. no "shallowness" whatsoever.

 

Well Soserious, I just ran this all past my H.

 

He agrees that it does come down to shallowness. For him the hard wiring is having a high sexual drive. And a partner who matches that drive which I do. That is what is hard wired in his opinion and guys that have low sexual drives and that's how they're wired.

 

To him to be attracted to someone who is young enough to be his daughter is just gross. (his words) He's 53 so 30 something daughter is "possible" however DD is 21 y/o. He recognizes there are guys like that in the world but attributes it to being shallow.

 

Like I said, he recognizes it's normal to age. He's commented that growing up he saw his 80 y/o granddpa playfully chasing his 71 y/o grandma around a table. They lived until 97 and 101 and stayed in love, it can happen. He's teased me that'll be him, he always related to that story.

 

Hard wiring is whatever your sexual drive is. Not about the exact attributes someone has to have....THAT is shallow. In our opinion.

 

So I guess I can't answer simply based on the tight box that you constructed around your belief...we'll agree to disagree.

[JamesM]

Well Soserious, I just ran this all past my H.

 

He agrees that it does come down to shallowness.

 

 

To him to be attracted to someone who is young enough to be his daughter is just gross. (his words)

 

In our opinion.

 

 

While I agree with your husband, my first though was....what husband wants to say to his wife, "I only love love you because of how you look. It is hardwired into me." And on a Friday night, too! Not many of us are that dumb. (And that was said jokingly, and no i am not saying your husband lied to you. It just struck me as funny.)

 

Seriously though, I do not think men see their wife as needing to be the perfect body. I also think that most men do not see really young women as wife material. Now, I do think many may still think that having sex with someone who is fifteen years younger can be exciting, but when they get down to it, then they would agree that such sex would not be fulfilling.

 

Beautiful women of all ages are nice to admire, but a truly beautiful woman is one whose beauty goes much deeper than her outward appearance. And for most (never say all) men in happy marriages, their wife is the one who is that truly beautiful woman.

[JackJack]

If I see a nice looking younger woman that's well toned, not over weight etc, on the TV, in a magazine or even walking down the street, I might think, she is just that, nice looking.

 

Biological, hardwired or whatever, to me its still comes down to choice.

 

Its a choice to cheat, its a choice to log on to teeny bopper porn, or whatever the case may be where people keep pushing the biological factor.

 

I dunno, it seems the older I get and my wife, the better I like my life and the more I love her, for her. I'm comfortable enough in my own skin that I don't feel I NEED to go run around with a younger, more well toned woman, even if I find her nice looking.

 

So, yeah I think being comfortable/secure within your own skin says alot about people's choices. Biological or not.

[SerenityX2]

While I agree with your husband, my first though was....what husband wants to say to his wife, "I only love love you because of how you look. It is hardwired into me." And on a Friday night, too! Not many of us are that dumb. (And that was said jokingly, and no i am not saying your husband lied to you. It just struck me as funny.) /QUOTE]

 

I can understand that James. But actually we've talked about "wiring" before (which is why I was curious about the thread) I just wanted his perspective on how to word since it was asking for the male perspective.

 

You'd have to know my H to understand his views on women. We've gone out a few times to this upscale bar. The girls working wear very skimpy things, doesn't bother me in the least. I'm one of those that enjoys getting older I guess. I've hit my stride when back to school for my RN and honestly feel sexier than I did in my 20's. Anyway he can't stand to see women (in his mind) to degrade themselves like that. To him, it could be his daughter, so he won't go there anymore although I like the atmosphere, (we're there to get away and talk not looking for entertainment) and it's not a seedy bar, it ticks him off.

 

I understand in this world it's hard to believe not all guys are into the young thangs, and into porn. He's not, of course in his 20's he had those magazines, but to him, he outgrew it...he'd say you look at it...then what? Even in his younger days, still high sex drive, he was a one woman guy. Didn't like to play around. Now that he's older, those values are more entrenched into who he is.

 

He's had buddies that were all about chasing strange. He never understood it as to him, he doesn't want to walk around with guilt and shame. So based on what I've read here, perhaps he's in the small minority...I just know we're not so odd in the circles we run with.

 

He's actually the one that encourages me to stay on this forum to try to "help" as I tell him about the stories on here or he'll read them with me. As I recently told him I'm really looking forward to working soon, this place can try to bring you down if you don't stay focused to the important stuff.

 

It just seems that if you look at this site, you'd think all marrieds must be unhappy, spouses must lie to not cause waves and more people are miserable and believe this or that negative thing and it can get depressing and thank God I do have a better perspective b/c of what I see IRL.

 

That's why bottom line I think Soserious has her perception being muddied by her ex and what she may read here. There are really good guys out there, but you have to fix yourself first to attract them.

[LucreziaBorgia]

From my experience dating from the young to the much older, I have found that the younger the man the 'harder' the wiring. Older men (men my age) seem to be more interested in what a woman can bring to the relationship, not what sort of body she brings it in.

 

Depends on the guy, I guess.

[Remy]

This thread has made me wonder if women are "hard wired" about sex. I realise there is disagreement about whether male wiring exists or not. However, there are some who do believe men are wired to prefer slim women and therefore can't and shouldn't be expected to find an overweight partner attractive enough to want to have sex.

 

There have been a number of men on this site who speak of their partner's refusal to have sex with them. Could these women have "hard wired" preferences that their husbands aren't meeting and therefore don't find them sexually attractive?

 

Do you think that women have this hard wiring? I don't mean specifically about physical appearance. Maybe for women there are some other "wired in" factors that affect their sex drive.

[Blindsidedagainalive]

Woman have 'hardwiring' as well as men.

 

A woman is attracted to men with prominant chins because it is a sign of strength. That they can withstand a physical assault.

 

I can't remember the website, but if you look at typical Model men, their facial features represent strength.

The same goes for height and muscles.

 

For a man, we are hardwired for birthing hips and breast feeding breasts...it's all about procreation. That's WHY we like boobs....breastmilk for our children.

 

If you looked at me and my WW many years ago, most would think that I was the better looking one. This was mentioned to me often. I had the looks and she was rather plain. BUT, I LOVED HER.

My love GREW over the years. MY attraction grew with that. I certainly didn't look at her and think of improvements. THAT **** IS USUALLY FOR INITIAL ATTRACTION. I would look at her expressions. Her smile and laugh made me happy. The way she walked into a room made me happy.

Her kindness and attitude made me happy. I wasn't F'ing evaluating her appearance looking for negatives.

I honestly feel this is more the norm. I have many male friends with very open relationships. I NEVER HEAR THEM COMPLAIN about their wives appearance. They do complain about other things, but not the appearance. NOW, A MAN WHO CHEATS MAY USE THAT EXCUSE ... but it's bunk.

Certainly, if the man or woman goes though an extraordinary change, like a HUGE weight gain, then I can understand why it may bother some.

Certainly not an excuse to cheat.

If you go out and look at a magazine rack, you will see as many attractive men as woman.

 

Oh, you know why CUM shots are so popular on porn? It's the stuff that makes babies...it starts life. You know why men want to ejaculate a 'big load'.....same reason....deep down we think that more semen would give us a better chance of fathering. All of this seems rather gross, but often there are logical biological reasons behind it.

[angie2443]

Going back to the original post-

 

I love my mother. She is so simplistic and doesn't bother with this convoluted crap when it comes to relationships. I asked her if it was a sign of disrespect or lack of honering a mates hard wired needs if one gets fat and she looked at me with bemusement. She said "people just get fat because they get fat". I agree. It has nothing to do with disrespecting a mates hard wired needs.