The Greater Good - Bitter Post

[soheartbroken]

A small story from my past:

 

We mourn our losses according to what the missing thing represents in our life, I guess.

 

 

Wow. This is very well put.

 

To me, my ex was not just my girlfriend/partner. She was the care-giver/nurturer that I did not have as a child.

[karnak]

 

Sorry, I didn't mean to offend, and I hope what I was trying to say makes more sense now. And yes, even people with intact families can carry a lot of baggage...

 

I was not offended.

 

I'm sorry if I seemed offended. Didn't wanted to sound like that.

[karnak]

Wow. This is very well put.

 

To me, my ex was not just my girlfriend/partner. She was the care-giver/nurturer that I did not have as a child.

 

That's why you're hurting so much. Unlike, perhaps many people on this forum, you haven't just lost a sex partner/friend/room-mate/house-maid. You feel like you've lost a mother.

 

There's no shame in feeling pain for that. You'd be a monster if you didn't.

[soheartbroken]

You're so right Karnak. I never wanted to come out and say it, because it sounds perverse in a sense. But yes, it's like losing my mother. Except this time I'm an adult who has to process it, and not bury it like I did as a child. And yes, that is partly why I'm taking it so hard.

 

Thank you, thank you, thank you. Thank you for saying what I haven't been able to.

[karnak]

You're so right Karnak. I never wanted to come out and say it, because it sounds perverse in a sense. But yes, it's like losing my mother. Except this time I'm an adult who has to process it, and not bury it like I did as a child. And yes, that is partly why I'm taking it so hard.

 

Thank you, thank you, thank you. Thank you for saying what I haven't been able to.

 

You're welcome. Glad I could be of help.

 

And I don't think your feelings have anything of "perverse" about them. Unconsciously we men always try to find something of a "mother" in every woman. Not in a sexual way, of course, but as a caregiver and someone who can help us when we are in trouble.

[LisaUk]

 

As far as I know, there is no definitive research on actively "escaping grief," so if anyone knows of any, please point me there.

 

You won't find any b/c it goes against everything that a medical professional would advocate. Grieving is not something you can push, nor should it be, it is the psyches way of dealing with trauma. If you shrug it off, it is very much like denial and repression, it will affect you unawares everyday of your life, seeping into your realtionships, career and general health and it will come back and bite you on the a** eventually. Ususally when you experience your next big loss, so double the pain next time accordong to my doctor.

Tara

 

I agree with your posts completely. But I would have to say some people are wired a little differently. Some people fall in love with philosophizing about their pain to where it becomes a daily ritual, even a part of them. They want everyone to remember the devastation that occurred. It becomes a partof their identity. Low self esteem plays a part too in perpetuating this.

 

Those who can grieve, and then move on, do. Those others never quite have enough self love to say enough and to move on.

 

It is sad really. They always say something a out if they had known earlier in the relationship they would be jilted they would have moved on at the time. But now that they have actually BEEN jilted they can't. Hard to explain.

When I expressed my feelings about being jilted on my thread I did so b/c that is how I feel, not to create drama or b/c I want everyone to remember the deverstation, for goodness sakes, I am trying to forget the devastation, why would I want it to intergrate itself into part of by identity.

 

As for what I said about wanting to be released earlier, yes I do feel that, I feel that he wasted a good protion of my life and if he had not used me that would be one part of the hurt I would not be dealing with now, plus, perhaps my feelings back then would not have been quite so developed as they are now. You make it sound like a relationship and feelings are static, if he had left me years ago the emotions I would have felt would have been different from those I feel now, so how can you say I say I would have gotten past it, but can't now? That's illogical.

[curiou]

You won't find any b/c it goes against everything that a medical professional would advocate. Grieving is not something you can push, nor should it be, it is the psyches way of dealing with trauma. If you shrug it off, it is very much like denial and repression, it will affect you unawares everyday of your life, seeping into your realtionships, career and general health and it will come back and bite you on the a** eventually. Ususally when you experience your next big loss, so double the pain next time accordong to my doctor.

 

When I expressed my feelings about being jilted on my thread I did so b/c that is how I feel, not to create drama or b/c I want everyone to remember the deverstation, for goodness sakes, I am trying to forget the devastation, why would I want it to intergrate itself into part of by identity.

 

As for what I said about wanting to be released earlier, yes I do feel that, I feel that he wasted a good protion of my life and if he had not used me that would be one part of the hurt I would not be dealing with now, plus, perhaps my feelings back then would not have been quite so developed as they are now. You make it sound like a relationship and feelings are static, if he had left me years ago the emotions I would have felt would have been different from those I feel now, so how can you say I say I would have gotten past it, but can't now? That's illogical.

 

First of all, I am a medical professional. I am a surgical oncologist who has done research into depression following combined chemoradiation for solid tumors of the body. So I have some background in mood disorders, although I am not a clinical psychologist or psychiatrist. I have seen what makes people feel better, and I have seen failures as well. I write papers on my computer all day and operate twice a week at a hospital in California.

 

Second, I have seen a psychotherapist for individual counseling following discovery of my ex-wife's affair. And, differences in treatment philosophies aside, my psychotherapist did happen to recommend active exercises to curtail my period of "grief." Although years ago, I do recall that one involved stopping the "negative audio/video" that would play in my mind every day in the morning as soon as I woke up, and actively replacing it with a highlight reel of happy times in my life, some of which included times with the ex-wife. It did work. Another was physical activity. My therapist recommended that I try to lose 10 pounds over 3 months. I grudgingly accepted the "assignment," and became a believer after a hint of a six-pack (okay, maybe four-pack) came through. And the huge surge in endorphins finishing a stint on the treadmills was therapy in itself.

 

Make no mistake, I'm not advocating that you don't grieve. You have to grieve. But I'm getting a sense that your grief has developed into a full-blown major depressive disorder. I'm not talking sad. I'm talking, you're having suicidal thoughts, you are having frequent meltdowns, this is seeping into every aspect of your life depression. And that's dangerous!

 

The very best medical research into the treatment of depression (as far as I know, I have not done a recent review of depression treatment) involves a combination of cognitive behavioral therapy and antidepressants. I think selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors are still the drugs of choice to replete our low levels when we are depressed, but the cognitive behavioral therapy must be done by you.

 

I've already intimated that I feel that antidepressant therapy would be something to look into, and I don't know how the British healthcare system deals with mental health referrals, but you need help, LisaUK. I have posted several times that people need to be careful surrounding themselves with enablers. I do understand that posting here in therapeutic, but if all you're taking away from the responders is that it's okay for you to keep feeling like this, you are succumbing to a very hurtful responder bias.

 

Out of curiosity, what kind of doctor is your physician who is telling you need to keep grieving or else it will "bite you" in the behind double later on?

[soheartbroken]

All the literature that I'm reading on grieving indicates that it usually takes a couple years to get over a divorce, which is essentially what Lisa is going through. And they all say that grieving should not be artificially cut short (e.g. by putting on a brave face, pretending like it's for the best, faking it, and yes, taking meds where not appropriate). This is not to say that there aren't things that can't be done to keep you from getting stuck (like exercise, journaling, etc), but there are stages and it needs to run its course.

 

Unresolved grief will come back and manifest itself according to all sources that I have consulted.

[tojaz]

Interesting thing about psychotherapy is that it has to be tailored to each individual patient. What works for one does not typically work for the next. Some grieve shorter, some grieve longer. Some can move along quickly and some will have certain triggers that can cause backslides. None of that makes their grieving process any more or less healthy, just different and suited to their own needs.

 

Not all are comfortable in having medications dictate their emotions, I fall into this group.

 

While some people have a harder time then others, as long as they are moving forward then they are taking steps to heal. Lots of people on LS go through suicidal thoughts I did, and while they are all concerning, especially when they are members I'm close to, like Lisa and SHB, the scariest is when they stop posting rather then sharing those feelings and asking for advice. To go back and read Lisas past threads and SHBs threads it shows great advancements in their progress abbreviated by some serious backslides, that they can recognize. Thats not wallowing thats recognition of their situation. A sign of moving forward just at their own pace.

 

TOJAZ

[Sam Spade]

If your looking to find happiness through another person? Be they your spouse, your husband, wife or SO? Your going to be sadly disappointed.

 

The truth of the matter is? We're each responsible for our own happiness and we're about as happy as we make our minds up to be.

 

"Marriage" in its original concept had very little if anything to do with "love" or "being in love" it was about pro-creation, passing on DNA (Off-spring) the medieval equivalent of Social Security (and still is in many parts of the world? Such as China ~ where to this day female fetus are aborted while male fetus aren't)

 

Romance in its modern day concept didn't even appear until about the 12th or 14th century in France. (At least in literature) Even then it wasn't meant for one's spouse but for that of another. And it wasn't all about sex and adultery ~ although a lot of that took place.

 

There are a lot of variables to the equation, but the ones that matter the most? Are those are those people that have commitment and those that don't. There are those who have values, morals, "codes" by which they live by, those that have determination, those that have the day to day perseverance. Those that think "Ten miles out!" Ahead of the game.

 

 

We don't always get what we want? But we always get what we deserve!

 

When I got married ~ and ended up divorced twelve years later? I got my @zz handed to me as she walked out tha' door!

 

And I deserved it! Why? Because I was young, dumb, un-educated, in-experienced, didn't have a freaking clue and just plain old ignorant!

 

 

Yes, this is a very important point that people are either ignorant about or unwilling to admit. In one sentence, for the most of human history, love and marriage were completely distinct concepts.

"oddly" marital insability reached its peak precisely when "romantic love" was expected to become the primary foundation of marriage, which it is not. Marriage is so much more, and it certainly results in developing affection and caring for your partner. But it ain't romantic love.

 

 

Take the Tristan and Isolde legend, supposedly one of the most romantic tales ever. Well, if people actually read it they would know that they were adultereres, and more importantly, their whole love was based on "love potion", which effect expired after a few years.

 

Or take "Romeo and Juliet". If it didn't so happen that theyr families were at war, they would be just 2 typical annoying teenagers.

 

The idea of romantic love in the literature is sad and pathetic. A metha-analysis of various love stories would reveal that basically the only way to find "real" love is to completley ignore your responsibilities and die

[TaraMaiden]

Unfortunately, SHB's love was not based purely on a romantic level.

 

SHB's love was complicated further by her bestowing the 'titles' of Mother/carer upon her ex-partner.

This woman was her everything.

And having lost her mother at a young age - she went and lost her all over again, as an adult.

 

Never having been allowed to do so - or never having been given the opportunity - as a child, she is now mourning not one, not two, but THREE different issues of abandonment and loss.

 

This isn't all about 'now', this is a whole lot about 'then'.

 

I recognise this.

I acknowledge this.

I think it's a devastating, weakening, debilitating and colossal issue to have to deal with.

 

But it can be done.

It can be done.

 

I have never been more sure of it.

[Gunny376]

This is true, the concept of romantic love only came about around the 14th century, but all the literature on the subject was about a man romantically pursing another woman other than his wife. The wife was for bearing children and keeping the home fire burning.

 

Even in modern day Japan its expected that the husband will cheat, (they consider it the nature of a man to do so). The deal is that the man is responsible for working and 'bringing' home the bacon. The wife is charged with running the household, and so the husband turns over the vast majority of their paychecks to them each pay period.

 

Geisha Girls are not for the most part prostitutes, but rather highly skilled and trained socialites that are trained to entertain men. A true Geisha Girls would seldom have sex with one of her customers.

 

At the core of Japanese, (actually the refer to themselves as Nipponese ~ Japanese being a Western coined word combined with Nipponese + Japan) is a sort of apprentice ~ caste system in which each individual strives for perfection in all they do.

 

But soap operas, combined with Hollywerid, combined with cheap pulp-fiction romance novels have lead to a very unrealistic perspective as to what love is and is suppose to be. And by contrast what marriage is all about.

 

Marriage in its original concept had absolutely nothing to do with "love" or "being in love"

 

Psychology ~ marriage and LTR relationships are very much about completing one's childhood. And involves so much that I address it from so many angles I would be typing forever.

 

Its not only about completing your childhood ~ its about resolving your childhood, along with making the transition between childhood and adulthood.

 

A significant aspect of which is going from being dependent to being independent. But for many? They jump from one dependency relationship to another, never making the dis-connect.

 

Some do so all of their lives? Re-bounding from one relationship to another. An explanation for serial monogamy and marriages. The 'pain' of becoming completely autonomous and independent is too great for them. (And as one who deliberately choose to go that route ~ trust me its hard and not the weak hearted nor weak minded)

 

But if you can transition from where you were in a 'dependent' relationship to complete autonomy and independence? There's no turning back.

 

If you really take the time to think about it? Relationship ~ or the need to be in one is really a type of addiction? A weakness of one's self.

 

When one can truly answer to themselves ~ "I love you not because I need you, I want you because I love you.

 

Need and want are two very different things. We sometimes get them confused.

 

If you've obtained self independence (I don't need anyone to make it in this world) and self autonomy? Then people coming and going in and out of your life matters not. (I'm OK, your OK, We're OK! I was just fine before you! And I'll be just fine without you ~ whether you come, go or stay!)

 

In closing I woudl just like to add?

 

ROLL TIDE!

(For those outside of the US I'm refering to the Univeristy of Alabama Football kicking some major Flordia University butt! and getting the BBQ ready for some Texas Longhorn Steaks!)

[Gunny376]

Unfortunately, SHB's love was not based purely on a romantic level.

 

SHB's love was complicated further by her bestowing the 'titles' of Mother/carer upon her ex-partner.

This woman was her everything.

And having lost her mother at a young age - she went and lost her all over again, as an adult.

 

Never having been allowed to do so - or never having been given the opportunity - as a child, she is now mourning not one, not two, but THREE different issues of abandonment and loss.

 

This isn't all about 'now', this is a whole lot about 'then'.

 

I recognise this.

I acknowledge this.

I think it's a devastating, weakening, debilitating and colossal issue to have to deal with.

 

But it can be done.

It can be done.

 

I have never been more sure of it.

 

Agreed and so true. Its called separation anxiety, and when as a child you deal with it, only to have it come back in your adulthood and throw you under the bus.

 

I went through it when my parents went through divorce at age 6. Never thought about it, improvised, adapted, over came ~ or so I thought.

 

Grew up into adulthood, got married ~ went through separation and divorce !

 

BAM! RIGHT BETWEEN THE EYES WITH A LOUIVILLE SLUGGER!

 

There's no doubt in my military mind that I took my divorce much harder because of my parent's divorce and the way it was handled and went down 27 years earlier.

 

Indeed in the book the State of California commissioned a study on the effects of children of divorce. The commission came back for more money because they found that divorce effected children much more than just one or two years after the divorce, but into their teens. After five more years they came back and asked for more money.

 

Why? Because they found conclusively that children of divorce are affected by such into their twenties, thirties, and even forties. (For those interested read the book "Second Chances")

 

I've not only have and understanding of such myself, but on two occassions have been around two different women with small children (one still in diapers) that automacially became attached to me by my mere presence as a man in thier lives.

[Gunny376]

You're so right Karnak. I never wanted to come out and say it, because it sounds perverse in a sense. But yes, it's like losing my mother. Except this time I'm an adult who has to process it, and not bury it like I did as a child. And yes, that is partly why I'm taking it so hard.

 

Thank you, thank you, thank you. Thank you for saying what I haven't been able to.

 

What's perverse about it?

 

Aren't our SO's suppose to nuture us?

 

Aren't they suppose to protect us?

 

Aren't they suppose to be protective of us?

 

Aren't they suppose to care about us? Or at least give a good Happy Damn?

 

Aren't they suppose to comfort us?

 

Aren't they suppose to hold us?

 

Aren't they encourage us?

 

Aren't they suppose to be there for us through Hell, damnation, and high water?

 

Would want to be with anyone less so?

 

Wouldn't you do the same thing for them? Would you expect any less from your SO?

 

Your going through a lot of what I'm going through.

 

I was a DAMNED GOOD MARINE! To be hoest about it? The best in my field throughout the Marine Corps. (Got the letters, commendations, etc to prove it! I was good ~ damned good! But only because I was blessed with a damn good team to boot.)

 

But my sucess cause me a wife and a family.

 

In part that she wasn't tough enough to be a Marine's wife. And one of the hardest jobs in the Corps? Is being a Marine's wife.

 

I was one Hell of a lousy Father and Husband. (Insert and run CD-R program "Gunny Highway" from Clint Eastwood's "Heartbreak Ridge")

 

OK, I wasn't the best of fathers and husbands ~ and I'm a far cry away from being the rest.

 

I was the best that I knew how to be at the time? Today? I would be an awesome father and husband ~ because of all of the crap that I've gone through and have been through.

 

Had I known thirty years ago what I know now? I wouldn't have gone through the last thirty years what I've gone through?

 

But because of what I've been through the last thirty years? I've become the person that I am today.

 

And I have to say! Parts of me? Are pretty freaking awesome! And I'm working on the rest!

[FeelingLonely98]

I don't think this makes you less strong than others, as you suggest. It's normal! Why would your heart be into Christmas decorating the first Christmas after the split? Why wouldn't your heart feel broken after your wife left?

I felt so good that my sons really wanted us to carry on the tradition. They are 16 & 18 so they not a lot of what is happening (without the details of course).

 

Grieving is a universal human process. It does not take days, but often months, and divorces and deaths can take years. Going slow does not mean that you're doing something wrong. It is a reflection of many factors.

I have read many studies that claim that divorce grieving can and often does take longer than grief over someone who died. I can see that now. When someone dies you realize it is natural and generally it is God's will and there was nothing that could have been done to stop it. With a D (at least those with lots of grieving) there usually seems to be a feeling that it didn't have to be. That communication was lacking. That understanding was missing. That focus was misdirected. And in many cases the BS had no knowledge of the impending doom.

 

So often, I think people on these boards look back at their own experience, and think that with their newfound knowledge, they can help to "rush" other people through their grief. But it can't be done, and if you try to rush through it I think it can be harmful. Some of the vets here have kind of realized this, that people aren't going to immediately take their advice, and will make their own "mistakes", no matter what anyone tells them. Some of these "mistakes" are just part of grieving though in my mind.

 

I really think this is very true shb. I made the mistakes - and I am probably better and wiser for the most part. I wouldn't have listened anyway.

[Gunny376]

Queen Victoria literally grieved for thirty years over Prince Albert ~ albiet much harder for the Queen of England to just go out and find a suitable replacement during Victoria England?

 

And we think we have it rough?

[soheartbroken]

 

Marriage in its original concept had absolutely nothing to do with "love" or "being in love"

 

Psychology ~ marriage and LTR relationships are very much about completing one's childhood. And involves so much that I address it from so many angles I would be typing forever.

 

Its not only about completing your childhood ~ its about resolving your childhood, along with making the transition between childhood and adulthood.

 

A significant aspect of which is going from being dependent to being independent. But for many? They jump from one dependency relationship to another, never making the dis-connect.

 

 

If you've obtained self independence (I don't need anyone to make it in this world) and self autonomy? Then people coming and going in and out of your life matters not. (I'm OK, your OK, We're OK! I was just fine before you! And I'll be just fine without you ~ whether you come, go or stay!)

 

 

I think you're onto something here. Recommend me a book. I would like to achieve some of this self-independence.

[soheartbroken]

 

I went through it when my parents went through divorce at age 6. Never thought about it, improvised, adapted, over came ~ or so I thought.

 

Grew up into adulthood, got married ~ went through separation and divorce !

 

BAM! RIGHT BETWEEN THE EYES WITH A LOUIVILLE SLUGGER!

 

There's no doubt in my military mind that I took my divorce much harder because of my parent's divorce and the way it was handled and went down 27 years earlier.

 

 

Why? Because they found conclusively that children of divorce are affected by such into their twenties, thirties, and even forties. (For those interested read the book "Second Chances")

 

 

Situations sound a little similar. My parents split when I was 6 too. Thought I wasn't really affected by it until now.

 

So how do I undo some of the damage?

[soheartbroken]

Unfortunately, SHB's love was not based purely on a romantic level.

 

SHB's love was complicated further by her bestowing the 'titles' of Mother/carer upon her ex-partner.

This woman was her everything.

And having lost her mother at a young age - she went and lost her all over again, as an adult.

 

Never having been allowed to do so - or never having been given the opportunity - as a child, she is now mourning not one, not two, but THREE different issues of abandonment and loss.

 

This isn't all about 'now', this is a whole lot about 'then'.

 

I recognise this.

I acknowledge this.

I think it's a devastating, weakening, debilitating and colossal issue to have to deal with.

 

But it can be done.

It can be done.

 

I have never been more sure of it.

 

Thank you. I hope it can be done too.

[soheartbroken]

What's perverse about it?

 

Aren't our SO's suppose to nuture us?

 

Aren't they suppose to protect us?

 

Aren't they suppose to be protective of us?

 

Aren't they suppose to care about us? Or at least give a good Happy Damn?

 

Aren't they suppose to comfort us?

 

Aren't they suppose to hold us?

 

Aren't they encourage us?

 

Aren't they suppose to be there for us through Hell, damnation, and high water?

 

Would want to be with anyone less so?

 

Wouldn't you do the same thing for them? Would you expect any less from your SO?

 

Your going through a lot of what I'm going through.

 

 

Yes, I think ideally they would do all of these things. But there has to be a balance, right? I think I need to do some of these things for myself.

[Gunny376]

I wish I had a single book to recommend ~ but I don't.

 

I'm a scholar in the sense that I pursue knowledge and understanding for the single sake of knowledge and understanding. Not for scholarship, degrees and such.

 

But for knowledge and understanding.

 

Although 'dated' I would recommend "I'm OK, Your OK! We're OK"

 

I would also recommend "Brain Sex" in explaining why some people are they way they are ~ i.e "gay" and other such benign words used in descrbing people.

 

"Why Men Don't Have A Clue and Women Need Another Pair of Shoes" is a good and quick read about the differcies in men and women's perspectives and attitudes.

 

From my readings? Males and females are not absolute. Most people are potentionally at least bi-sexual. (Kinsey Report) and are neither 100% gay nor straight, (Men's Health Book ~ "Total Sex")

 

That is to say ~ (from the Kinsey study) almost 60% or better are at least bisexual.

 

I'm not saying this is an absolute.

 

There are three kinds of lies!

 

Lies!

 

Damned Lies!

 

And Statistics!

 

I am saying SHB that you need to reconcile your Dear Mothers death, with who and what you are. You need to accept yourself for who and what you are.

 

Part of conflict is trying to live up to your minds expectations Mother and your GF

[TaraMaiden]

Situations sound a little similar. My parents split when I was 6 too. Thought I wasn't really affected by it until now.

 

So how do I undo some of the damage?

 

Actually, you can't. The damage has been done, and as such, cannot be UNdone.

However, you can come to terms with it.

You can accept that this is something that happened, and realise that the little girl to whom it happened, no longer exists.

Therefore, 'she' no longer has that specific pain to carry.

But you've carried it all this time, for her.

Wouldn't you like to put it down now?

Wouldn't you like to say:

 

"Ok, I'm XX years old now, which means, I've been carrying this pain/resentment/suffering/anger/sadness/distress for xx years.

And now - I'm through carrying it.

 

I know it happened.

I know it caused me Pain.

I know it caused me Resentment.

I know it caused me Suffering.

I know it caused me Anger.

I know it caused me Sadness.

I know it caused me Distress.

 

I feel desperately sympathetic for the little girl that I was, but I'm being unfair to her memory - and unfair to myself - if I keep these emotions as part of my baggage.

 

But I really don't want to feel this way any more, and whilst all these feelings and emotions are valid, I don't have to keep them as an integral part of me.

 

My Emotions are NOT WHO I AM.

But they are manifesting as part of who I am, and that's not true. it's not really me.

I am someone who wants to divest herself of all this weight, and I can do so, and still honour the little girl I was."

 

Loosening this grip does not devalue or trivialise things.

QUITE THE OPPOSITE.

 

 

Yes, I think ideally they would do all of these things. But there has to be a balance, right? I think I need to do some of these things for myself.

 

Absolutely.

Because when love becomes dependent on the presence of someone else, it becomes conditional and adulterated.

It becomes impure and needy.

Our affection for the other person becomes tainted by a desperation, if you will, to keep them close.

it feels like Love.

It looks like Love.

but there is a 'dangerous' element to this affection that undermines you, and unsettles the other person.

When we cling to somebody in a tighter way than needs be - they know it.

It can seem stifling, inhibiting and restrictive.

And when they cut the ties, it can seem like a knife-blow to the heart.

We have loved too much.

And the deprivation of the love of our life is the coup de grace.

It's exactly like a sudden and violent death.

 

I do - sincerely, I do - understand.

[soheartbroken]

 

Because when love becomes dependent on the presence of someone else, it becomes conditional and adulterated.

It becomes impure and needy.

Our affection for the other person becomes tainted by a desperation, if you will, to keep them close.

it feels like Love.

It looks like Love.

but there is a 'dangerous' element to this affection that undermines you, and unsettles the other person.

When we cling to somebody in a tighter way than needs be - they know it.

It can seem stifling, inhibiting and restrictive.

And when they cut the ties, it can seem like a knife-blow to the heart.

We have loved too much.

And the deprivation of the love of our life is the coup de grace.

It's exactly like a sudden and violent death.

 

I do - sincerely, I do - understand.

 

Argh! I think this is so true, and it hurts so much to hear it.

 

I wasn't "clingy" in the sense of not wanting her to hang out with others, or being jealous, but there was a neediness to me, and it pushed her too far (and we fought a lot). I craved attention and affection...

 

And I'm so scared that this will push everyone and anyone else away.

 

I never thought I'd have a fear of abandonment, because I have this tough exterior...but now I do! What the hell can I do about it? This is incredibly scary.

[SimplyBeingLoved]

Great posts.

 

I agree that "resolving childhood issues" is a big reason why marriage break ups can be so devastating. The spouse has not only assumed the role of marital partner but essentially "parent" as well.

 

On the flip side, I think the projection of "parent" upon one's spouse can damage or even destroy a marriage. The sex life between my husband and I has never been great. He turned to porn and seemed to prefer that over initiating with me. I have a theory that somewhere early on in our marriage, perhaps after the first child, I became "mother" instead of "lover." As well, he looked to me for approval on making decisions both large and small (ones that shouldn't even need any approval), and has behaved in other ways that make me feel more like his mother.

 

When I told my husband I was contemplating a separation, he said he didn't want me to go. I asked him why? He said he loved me. I didn't understand how he could really feel he loved me, when in addition to a lack of emotional and physical intimacy, a typical day consisted of a 3-minute phone conversation on what to have for dinner, a few minutes together with the family at the dinner table, then each of us retreating to our "caves" in the house for the rest of the evening. How could he feel he loved me in that scenario?

 

It finally dawned on me that he was very used to that scenario from growing up. He was the youngest of a fairly big family. In such a family, do you intimately share with your parents? No. But they are always "there". In the same house, sharing the same space. That was what "family" is for him. You don't share secrets or have sex with your Mom. But you always expect her to be "there"... and I guess that how love is perceived by some men, and most likely my husband.

[floridapad]

SBL - Your husband sounds exactly like me with the childhood. However the only difference is that I actually SEE it now and felt it and have been able to shift my view of thinking towards my wife and know that I could be a lover as apposed to a father or complacent individual. It's funny because I told her about all of my self realizations that I came to on my own and she was pretty amazed except........she hasn't reached that point herself. She has her own issues to resolve, one of which is her view on what love is. Mine was a sense of complacency and being there for someone and hers is the romantic high of new love. Somewhere in the middle is balance. This is why I try to tell you to not underestimate your husband and to also focus on yourself. You really never know what someone is capable of doing when they have an epiphany.