drnick Posted December 2, 2009 Posted December 2, 2009 For the last year or so, my wife and I have been discussing opening up our marriage. We are both 35. Been married for 11.5 years and dated for 2 years before that. I know that we have been monogamous. Well... I know I have been and am 99.99999% sure that she has. The premises for this ongoing discussion are many. 1) Love is love and sex is sex. And we both love each other very much. 2) Because of our profound love for each other we think that the thrill of that first kiss and..... would be cool for the other person to experience. 3) The discussion in and of itself has added spice to our marriage (the vasectomy or increased physical fitness by both of us hasn't hurt either). 4) Our physical attractiveness is on the decline so now would be the time. 5) Neither of us have had many sexual partners. 5a) My experiences were limited to brief flings 5b) Her experiences were limited to a few long relationships In the process, several issues have arisen. 1) STD's and pregnancy. 2) Her safety 3) anonymity (not getting back to our kids or our community) 4) disclosure (open or don't ask don't tell) 5) one-night-stands vs. a go to booty call 6) opportunity 6a) it is a lot easier for a woman to get some. All she has to is ask. 6b) I generally do not have to worry about my physical safety These issues have led us to create several ground rules. I will not lay them out here. But, one is that for her the flings would probably have to involve someone she has history with but is separate from our lives. While my playing field, is a little more wide open. Over the last few months, she has reconnected with her high school boyfriend and helped him through some stuff. Likewise, he has been a great friend for her. In fact, I am very thankful she has him in her life to give her additional perspective. However, given the provisions established he is clearly on the list. And it is kind of freaking me out. When the conversation started, it was about a fun frivolous event. But, I know she has very deep feelings for this guy. In my heart of hearts, I know that those feelings are nothing compared to what we have. The place I have gotten to is that I am committed to being with my wife for the rest of our lives. Entailed in that is her complete happiness. And that we need to communicate honestly our thoughts and feelings at all times. But I would still like some perspective from others in similar positions.
waltham781 Posted December 2, 2009 Posted December 2, 2009 Haven't brought this up in my marriage, but a lot of conversation I've been having with other men have brought this concept up. I'm not sure if it is because of my age or what, but many are re-thinking the role of an open marriage in an almost curious kind of way. My take is that for years these types of discussions have been taking place, but the negatives always outweigh the positives. Curious to see if you can get any input on this one.
SimplyBeingLoved Posted December 2, 2009 Posted December 2, 2009 Could get messy real quick. Don't think I would do it. Too much opportunity for major drama. One time hubby brought up the idea of open marriage. He had been drinking a lot when he said that though, so I wouldn't ever take him seriously at that time. My thought on open marriage is, although I don't have big moral problems with it, why even be married then? What does marriage even mean then? If I end up getting divorced, there's a very strong chance I may never get married again... I'm not sure I really believe in marriage. I do believe in close relationships, and I consider myself a "serial monogamist". I DO think when people get married they should take their vows seriously. But, there seems to be only one model for marriage in our society, and frankly, the "rest of your life" part gets to me.
stuckinoz Posted December 2, 2009 Posted December 2, 2009 My husband & I tried a "Modified" Open Marriage years ago. My theory on the whole Concept of Open Marriages......It's a fun IDEA, but the reality of it all can sometimes be a nightmare. As you now see with your wife - even though she hasn't broken the rules- You NOW are freaking out because this man & she have a connection. (This happened in my marriage as well) I did break the rules for our "Openness" - I kept someone a secret from my husband (as far as the sexual part went - he knew we were friends & hung out) - This person & I had a gigantic connection! When my husband realized how deeply I felt for this man - No more "Openness". He never thought for a minute I might fall for someone. (The OPEN part was his idea - I went along thinking it would bring a spark back to the bedroom) I guess that's the price you pay - there is a very good chance that she or you for that matter, may connect with someone else. Then what? Rules or no rules...It happens.
GorillaTheater Posted December 2, 2009 Posted December 2, 2009 Over the last few months, she has reconnected with her high school boyfriend and helped him through some stuff. Likewise, he has been a great friend for her. In fact, I am very thankful she has him in her life to give her additional perspective. However, given the provisions established he is clearly on the list. And it is kind of freaking me out. When the conversation started, it was about a fun frivolous event. But, I know she has very deep feelings for this guy. In my heart of hearts, I know that those feelings are nothing compared to what we have. There's a poster here, sxyNYCcpl, who is in an open marriage and is a firm and articulate advocate for that lifestyle. If he chimes in, I think he'd have some great advice for you on the generalities. But this part I picked out of your post would cause me some concern if I was you. I suspect it concerns you too, otherwise you wouldn't have brought it up. If your wife already has feelings for this guy, I think you and your marriage are on even more dangerous ground if she starts a sexual relationship with him. Who brought up open marriages? Which one of you seems to be bringing it up the most at this point?
jmargel Posted December 2, 2009 Posted December 2, 2009 Over the last few months, she has reconnected with her high school boyfriend and helped him through some stuff. Likewise, he has been a great friend for her. In fact, I am very thankful she has him in her life to give her additional perspective. However, given the provisions established he is clearly on the list. And it is kind of freaking me out. Total nuts. If you were going to have an open marriage (better yet, why not try swinging?). Those are two different things. You should be doing that with someone you are not connected with. As her ex-bf. She already has a connection with him, why would you push her to take it to the next level? You really must want your marriage to fail. I think if you do a little detective work good chance you will find out things they are saying (or perhaps doing) to each other that you would never expect.
LucreziaBorgia Posted December 2, 2009 Posted December 2, 2009 (edited) Things to consider from someone who 'went there, did that': One of you will end up 'dating' and the other will not. The person dating might come home so sore from sex with the OP that they will not want sex with you. The person dating might come home with scratches, hickeys, marks, etc. or might smell like the fluids of the OP they are having sex with. The person dating might not come home at night at all. When the dating person has sex and orgasms with the OP, chemical bonding will occur with that person and they will not feel like being as intimate with you while they are with the OP. The balance will always tip one way or the other. The longevity of your marriage depends on how well you can manage when the balance tips, and not in your favor. My stbxH and I tried the 'open marriage' thing, and considered it for a while. He struck out, I didn't - and as soon as the balance tipped OUT of his favor and INTO mine, he couldn't handle it and decided that he wanted a divorce. Generally speaking, I've heard of the 'open marriage' being 'the first step to divorce'. If you can't handle the tip in her favor, when you are high and dry you may want to reconsider. A lot of times, a person will ask for an 'open marriage' when all they really want to do is f*ck someone else with the spouse's permission. It isn't the same thing. That is philandering with permission. Open marriage is far, far beyond that. Rarely do people understand what a true open marriage is, and how difficult maintaining one can be. If someone is already in the picture when the 'open marriage' is brought up, you can bet that it isn't really an open marriage they want. They just want to sleep with that person while being married and get away with it. Edited December 2, 2009 by LucreziaBorgia
sxyNYCcpl Posted December 2, 2009 Posted December 2, 2009 There's a poster here, sxyNYCcpl, who is in an open marriage and is a firm and articulate advocate for that lifestyle. Wow, if I'm getting famous, I may be posting too much! Anyway, to the OP, yes my wife and enjoy an open relationship, and we've found that it has done many great things for our lives. However, ours is vastly different from what you are contemplating. When we play with others, it's as a couple, only. We don't date, we don't have boyfriend/girlfriends, we don't do anything that doesn't involve the other. That does not mean that we're so anal that if I get up to go to the restroom that Mrs. sxy must stop what she's doing, but it means that if she and another man (or woman) are alone in a room it's only because I just stepped out, or have yet to come in, not because I'm sitting at home while she's out on a date night. I would strongly recommend that you consider taking such an approach yourself, Gorilla called me an advocate, and I suppose that's true to a certain extent, but I'm not an evangelast attempting to convert anyone and everyone. This lifestyle is most certainly not for everyone, and if you try it and discover it's not, doing so separately might lead to doing the rest of your life separately. You are also playing with fire involving presumably vanilla ex-lovers. They don't get it. Stick to strangers, find an on-premise swingers club or party in your area and go check it out, I'd recommend that the first time you ONLY check it out. If you decide to jump in with both feet, great. Turning swingers into friends can create lifetime friendships. Trying to turn friends into swingers can destroy them. If you're interested, send me a PM and I'll give you a link where all the swinger pervs like me hang out and they'll give you some really good advice.
doushenka Posted December 3, 2009 Posted December 3, 2009 The person dating might come home with scratches, hickeys, marks, etc. or might smell like the fluids of the OP they are having sex with. Only if his other partner is tacky enough to let him leave like that! I'd be appalled if he fell into his primary partner's bed smelling like me. That's not on at all. The person dating might not come home at night at all. Which, in a truly open or polyamorous relationship, is usually negotiated beforehand. I have the utmost respect for my mate's primary, and if she said "I need him not to spend so many nights", you bet I'd kick him out in time to get home to her. Rarely do people understand what a true open marriage is, and how difficult maintaining one can be. Yes. This is so very true. It takes work on everybody's part. We talk... and talk... and TALK whenever the three of us are together. If someone is already in the picture when the 'open marriage' is brought up, you can bet that it isn't really an open marriage they want. They just want to sleep with that person while being married and get away with it. And so is this. It sounds like the OP and his wife had some sound reasoning to begin with, but haven't dealt with quite a few insecurities. Perhaps both should go NC with anyone else in their lives until they've worked it out between them.
dazzle22 Posted December 3, 2009 Posted December 3, 2009 WellI believe in Murphy's law as much as I believe in gravity. This sounds like borrowing trouble where there was none. I think your wife and OM could go on to have a great connection and you might feel like the third wheel.
Author drnick Posted December 4, 2009 Author Posted December 4, 2009 This all very helpful. Part of my "freaking out" was that we hadn't had a chance to communicate in a couple of days. A good open conversation cleared things up pretty quickly. Duh. I must say that just bringing this conversation into our marriage has strengthened it. I do not know if it has gotten us talking about sex more or if it is that the conversations are forcing us to discuss issues in our marriage in a more free way then when they come up in more subversive, ugly, stupid ways. Either way, I know that we can make whatever we chose to do work if we maintain our honesty and communication. Thanks for all of the thoughts.
whichwayisup Posted December 4, 2009 Posted December 4, 2009 This is dangerous terrority.. This old friend of hers, she has feelings for - If she ends up having sex with him, those feelings are going to develop into something more .. They've bonded emotionally already, without having sex. THAT is a threat to your marriage, to your relationship on an emotional level. For you, maybe it's easy to go have hot sex with another woman and not let your feelings get in the way..For women, it's MUCH harder to do. Intimacy and closeness is important - Not too many women just go f**k someone for the sake of f**king.. Have you thought about 3-somes and being involved? Just going off and being with someone else, is going to open pandora's box.. And it may be something you both deeply regret one day..
ADF Posted December 4, 2009 Posted December 4, 2009 A popular sex adviced columnist was once asked about the prospects for couples in open marriages. He said while he had been a guest at several weddings of friends with open marriages, he had yet to attend a third anniversary party for a couple with an open marriage. And this columnist is pro non-monogamy. It sounds like you two are doing one thing right: you're carefully considering the issues and consequences of your decision to open up your marriage. That is very smart. My own opinion, for what it's worth, is that the number of people who THINK they can handle non-monogamy is far greater than the number who can actually handle it. But who knows? You may be among the lucky few. The fact you are already concerned about you wife having "deep feelings" for this other guy is troubling. I would encourage to strike him from the list. Good luck.
prenus. Posted December 4, 2009 Posted December 4, 2009 A lot of times, a person will ask for an 'open marriage' when all they really want to do is f*ck someone else with the spouse's permission. It isn't the same thing. I suppose you could call the latter a "semi-open marriage"?
prenus. Posted December 4, 2009 Posted December 4, 2009 He said while he had been a guest at several weddings of friends with open marriages, he had yet to attend a third anniversary party for a couple with an open marriage. In fairness, I have only ever been invited to one anniversary party ever and that was a 50th anniversary. That party was thrown by the children of the couple ~20 years ago. I know of no one else who has ever thrown an anniversary party for themselves or anyone else, open marriage or not. Maybe anniversary parties are just something people don't do often? I don't know.
Holding-On Posted December 4, 2009 Posted December 4, 2009 A popular sex adviced columnist was once asked about the prospects for couples in open marriages. He said while he had been a guest at several weddings of friends with open marriages, he had yet to attend a third anniversary party for a couple with an open marriage. And this columnist is pro non-monogamy. It sounds like you two are doing one thing right: you're carefully considering the issues and consequences of your decision to open up your marriage. That is very smart. My own opinion, for what it's worth, is that the number of people who THINK they can handle non-monogamy is far greater than the number who can actually handle it. But who knows? You may be among the lucky few. The fact you are already concerned about you wife having "deep feelings" for this other guy is troubling. I would encourage to strike him from the list. Good luck. I have been married for over 15 years. Of the married poly people I know/have been involved in, current years are: 8, 8, 12, 10+, 10+ (not quite sure), 21. but yes, communication is key going very slowly is key honestly, starting out together is a better plan get thee to a polyamory site pronto (just google polyamory - I like polyamory percolations) read the Ethical Slut, discuss talk talk talk be safe have fun
Author drnick Posted December 4, 2009 Author Posted December 4, 2009 A popular sex adviced columnist was once asked about the prospects for couples in open marriages. He said while he had been a guest at several weddings of friends with open marriages, he had yet to attend a third anniversary party for a couple with an open marriage. And this columnist is pro non-monogamy. It sounds like you two are doing one thing right: you're carefully considering the issues and consequences of your decision to open up your marriage. That is very smart. My own opinion, for what it's worth, is that the number of people who THINK they can handle non-monogamy is far greater than the number who can actually handle it. But who knows? You may be among the lucky few. The fact you are already concerned about you wife having "deep feelings" for this other guy is troubling. I would encourage to strike him from the list. Good luck. Actually, I am mostly psyched for her with her reconnection. We have been completely immeshed since we were 21 and were close friends before that. We run 3 businesses together, went through graduate school, and have 2 kids together. IMMESHED. In this, there haven't been many independent friendships developed. He has been good for her and us in many ways. Additionally, she has really helped him through a hard time and has derived a great sense of satisfaction from this. And so have I. I just got a brief bit of the ugly jealousy monster the other day. That is gone. But I am still not sure how I feel about this thing now. What I know is that we are going to take this thing slow and communicate a lot. That is cool. I am excited for the process.
Author drnick Posted December 4, 2009 Author Posted December 4, 2009 I figured since there have been some responses to this people may be interested from the origins of the open marriage conversation. It started about five years ago, when my wife had a weekend with some college pals. He gay buddy heard that I had only had sex with a few people (my and I have a similar number of partners but hers were all boyfriends and mine were all flings). He convinced her that I needed get some. She came back and told me that if the occasion were to arise that she was fine with it. We discussed. Then stepped away from the conversation for a few years. THE TRYST LIST - Almost as a joke, we occasionally would talk about the tryst list (some famous hot person that if the occasion were to arise would be a freebie). One of our friends happened to manage to land an individual from their list. She said it was an awesome once in a lifetime experience. She will never do it again and never tell her husband, but given the opportunity she would do it again without a second thought. This got the wheels of the conversation spinning. We talked about the thrill of a first kiss and how we weren't getting any younger and that we only have one life. These conversations were also an occasion to reaffirmed our deep pure love, friendship, and physical attraction to and with each other. Now, I still do not know if I ever will act. In fact, I do not think she will ever act either. She has had countless opportunities - we were at a bar the other night and she was trying to be a wingman for a recently divorced friend, unfortunately all the guys wanted her and not the friend- and I know that she hasn't acted. But I will say one thing that is very cool that we have both noticed is that when we go out having it on the table makes the evenings a little more interesting. I used to be a delightful flirt. I got married and pretty much just stopped. I almost stopped interacting with women all together. Now, I notice that women are interested in me and I tip-toe around the flirting line. It is fun. It has also been nice to be reminded that I am attractive and desired by someone else who is so familiar with me that she does not see me the way others have. These events have inspired new confidence in myself that has translated very well into my marriage. Thanks to everyone who has commented thus far.
Heroic Posted December 5, 2009 Posted December 5, 2009 I know a gal who discussed this with her husband, all the wonderful points were brought up. She started getting some on a regular basis with her stable of studs. He couldn't get any because by nature he was beta. Soon she wasn't interested in any sex with him at all. He was at home all the time while she was out getting her needs met. They have issues with kids that prevents him from getting a divorce. So he sits alone while she spends her weekends getting all the sex she wants.
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