The Good, the Bad and the Ugly...

[spiraling downward]

My comments in bold above because I was too lazy to do quotes

 

I'm sorry, I just was able to get back to you on this. You make valid points.... all I can say is that the drug use was not discovered until after the separation.

 

Secondly, about the "rebel against mom" thing I brought up... I guess I'm thinking more in terms of single mom's raising boys... I've seen this time and time again. The mother loses control on the discipline and the boy doesn't have the benifit of a close male role model, so the boy has to explore manhood from what ever scraps of male influence he can find.

 

In my gf's case... she was in effect a single mother as the father was not present or involved for the younger boys.

 

In a relatively stable household with a mother and father who are involved with their kids.... it stands to reason that there would be less problems than what I've described above.

 

In my first marriage, where I had my kids, I really only enforced two rules for my boys... #1 they listen to their mom and not back talk her. #2 they don't physically hurt each other.

 

They turned out to be pretty good kids, inspite of the break-up of that family. Of course, I remained involved in their lives after I divorced their mom.

Edited December 2, 2009 by spiraling downward

[fooled once]

I'm sorry, I just was able to get back to you on this. You make valid points.... all I can say is that the drug use was not discovered until after the separation.

 

Secondly, about the "rebel against mom" thing I brought up... I guess I'm thinking more in terms of single mom's raising boys... I've seen this time and time again. The mother loses control on the discipline and the boy doesn't have the benifit of a close male role model, so the boy has to explore manhood from what ever scraps of male influence he can find.

 

In my gf's case... she was in effect a single mother as the father was not present or involved for the younger boys.

 

In a relatively stable household with a mother and father who are involved with their kids.... it stands to reason that there would be less problems than what I've described above.

 

In my first marriage, where I had my kids, I really only enforced two rules for my boys... #1 they listen to their mom and not back talk her. #2 they don't physically hurt each other.

 

They turned out to be pretty good kids, inspite of the break-up of that family. Of course, I remained involved in their lives after I divorced their mom.

 

See, I still disagree I raised my son. His father had minimal to zero impact on him.

 

I made sure my son knew right from the beginning - I was BOSS no matter how tall he grew or how big he got. And surprisingly, it was never an issue with us.

 

I know of others who had kids from intact families who fell apart when the kids were teens. I really do believe it comes down to respect. Kids who don't respect their parents ...... you know what I mean.

 

Anyway, I wish you the best of luck and just make sure the younger boys never ever feel like they are being shafted because mom is too busy working on her new relationship.

[tami-chan]

Hey Spiraling Downward! thanks for the update...congratulations on your engagement but sorry to hear about the fiancee's adult son. Parents should never use children as weapons...and it looks like your fiancee's ex is doing that. Now it's a bit clearer why your fiancee left her xH.

 

Can you clear something up? Did you not say that your fiancee's xH had affairs before you and her got together? And if that is so, does the son know? does he know his father is an alcoholic? How can he not see how her dad treated his mother? is he mentally challenged?

[spiraling downward]

Hey Spiraling Downward! thanks for the update...congratulations on your engagement but sorry to hear about the fiancee's adult son. Parents should never use children as weapons...and it looks like your fiancee's ex is doing that. Now it's a bit clearer why your fiancee left her xH.

 

Can you clear something up? Did you not say that your fiancee's xH had affairs before you and her got together? And if that is so, does the son know? does he know his father is an alcoholic? How can he not see how her dad treated his mother? is he mentally challenged?

 

Tami-chan, nice to hear from you again! Yes, the oldest son knows about at least 1 affair that the father had and is well aware of his alcoholism. I imagine that he just had a higher standard set for his mother and this is probably a crushing blow for him. The oldest son was privy to much of the marital problems... at times he told his mother that she should leave his dad... other times he told her she should stick it out in the marriage even if she was misserable. The kid is really perceptive... in general, I think he was forced to grow up too quickly by having to face adult problems. The younger children aren't really aware of the adult issues, other than witnessing their father's drinking when he was home.

[Chrome Barracuda]

It's all hypocritical anyway's you look at it...

 

She cheated, but so did he.

 

You cant blame one and absolve your self of doing wrong when you did wrong too..

 

He has more loyalty to his father because , that's his father!

 

Period...

 

But if she left the father and met you later on down the line and not actively pursued the affair to leave things could have been different. but in the son's eyes. The mother is a liar and a cheat, she could have did things the right way but she didnt. And trust the son is probably past the father cheating.

 

But my question SD, is you got the ex, she is now gonna be your wife. Your going to be a mentor (LOL, pretty funny you said that, aint nothing mentor like when your shagging their mom behind dad's back) to her two youngest.

 

So YOU won! why brag about what others do. Sooner or later the ex will stop and move on and then you'll probably experience a relationship that will rise or fall based on it's own merits. You won. Why do you care what the ex does?

 

What makes it sad is that you dont own what you did to destroy the man's marriage. Have you ever said the affair was wrong, have you ever apologized to both families? Are you man enough to own your bad behaviors and choices? and what if by the chance your fiancee' cheats on you? I mean you did all of that sneaking and lying and justifying for nothing.

 

Why not find a single woman to be with why deal with THIS particular woman and all her drama?

[tami-chan]

It's all hypocritical anyway's you look at it...

She cheated, but so did he.

 

what's hypocritical about it? SD did not say he was justified in cheating on his cheating wife...in fact, the reason why he told so soon after the affair started was because he knew he needed a clean break.

 

You cant blame one and absolve your self of doing wrong when you did wrong too..

where are you getting this? are you making up scenarios in your head yet, AGAIN?

 

He has more loyalty to his father because , that's his father!

 

Period...

But not to his mother who carried him for 9 months and gave birth to him? The same mother who kept the family together for as long as she could despite his father's cheating AND alcoholism?

 

hmmmm.....you even think that SD should have allowed the son to continue to physically assault the mother and not intervene because "who is he, afterall"? boy, I thought you were just some bitter, scorned man...i see now you are worse

 

But if she left the father and met you later on down the line and not actively pursued the affair to leave things could have been different. but in the son's eyes. The mother is a liar and a cheat, she could have did things the right way but she didnt. And trust the son is probably past the father cheating.

oh sweet double standard. The father could have DONE the right thing and divorced her before cheating or gone to AA so he could have been a better father!

 

Why do you care what the ex does?

I don't think SD "cares" about his fiancee's exH the way you are still hurting about your ex, Chrome...I think he cares about how he is using the kids against their mother and him. As you know (or maybe you don't know) in a relationship, what makes the other sad affects the other person, too....so yes, it is in his best interest the the exH grow a pair and be a better man/father than what he has been.

 

I mean you did all of that sneaking and lying and justifying for nothing.

First you tell him, he won...now you say it was all for nothing?

 

Why not find a single woman to be with why deal with THIS particular woman and all her drama?

Why not? some people are worth the painful, difficult journey...unlike others....

[Chrome Barracuda]

here we go tami, defending cheating! if you read my posts & then digest them instead of disecting them before inspection you would understand.

 

These people was both wrong, yes but again, this poster isnt owning up to the damage him and this woman did. It's called seeking forgiveness or being the better person.

 

Like i said with the kid in that moment of rage he probably expectd better from his mother but she didnt, do right now did she?

 

Again I didnt say it was for nothing if you read it again, I said in the event that THIS woman turns out to be a serial cheater, not that he did all that for nothing.

 

And again, all of this drama could have been avoided if he just dealt with a single woman with little to no baggage.

 

No one put a gun to his head. it was his own choice.

 

Hop off tami, you know nothing of what im saying.

[Fallen Angel]

I promised I would come back and give updates... so here I am. Sorry you are so bitter. You think you can put every situation into cookie cutter profiles... but since you aren't privy to the gory details... you are just pulling judgements out of your ass.

 

Your post is kind of funny... you even being removed from this fine gentleman (her ex) seems to be caught in his sociopathic web. This was a man who was an alcoholic, passed out on the couch by 7pm every night, had no interaction or involvement with his younger children, spent days and weeks away from home and was cruel to his wife. He has had affairs in this marriage himself. I've been exposed to other people now who have bore this out to me.

 

Even her son, who I've written about ad naseum in this thread told his mother at one time that she should leave him.

 

But now... to his supporters and defenders, he has really changed this time, he such a loving and doting father... he such a poor, poor victim because his wife had the audacity to leave him.... it's all hooey.

 

And with any sociopath, once they face firm opposition and resistance, they slink away and find another willing victim. Events have bore this out. It is a classic scenario.

 

It's just that now, when my gf finally took action... it upset his apple cart and the little world of control that he had going for him.

 

This man is dirt and I do sleep very well at night. I assisted my future wife out of this situation and I feel very good about it.

 

Her x sounds so much like my xH. Everyone around us always told me that I should leave, they saw the bruises, they saw me struggling to pay the bills after one of his many 3 day binges (twice a month was average for his binges.. pay day ya know?) when he would drain the bank acct.. etc etc but as soon as I did leave he 'completely turned his life around' and was all of a sudden being made out to be a wonderful loving giving father/husband by all of them, and I was some evil, vindictive shrew. They all had to eat the s**t they were trying to shovel though when after he won custody of the kids (after months of me telling everyone he didn't really want them and was only using custody as a way to continue to abuse me) he moved from a three bedroom into an efficiency apt and changed his phone number so that his children can not even call him anymore. (He has LEGAL custody, but will not take physical custody yet he picks up his child support checks!! ) Yeah, he is a WONDERFUL example of a great father/husband! LMAO!!!

 

Keep loving your lady, don't let the idiots get to ya! ((hugs and well wishes sent to you and your new family)

[Chrome Barracuda]

I usually do not read your posts nowadays but OP quoted it to respond to you so I read it..I cannot digest your ranting lunacy of a post....all I see is how sick you are and how badly damaged you have been by having been cheated on..... it is sad really....you should get help.

 

 

 

and the OP's ex-wife did? his fiancee's exH did? I do not remember OP ever excusing his affair...do you?

 

Why can't you be fair to ALL and say...you know what, this was a bad situation all around...he does not belong with his cheating wife...neither does the fiancee to his cheating/alcoholic husband...they did the right thing by ending both marriages-isn't that most of YOU people ask? You(not you particularly) tell people to leave their marriages instead of continuing to live a lie....so it seems like it's "damn if you don't and damn if you do"....granted, nobody should have cheated...but then if that's the case, there wouldn't even be a discussion about this, right?

 

and by the way, why do you excuse the fiancee's exH's actions...he was a cheating cad and a drunk! You do not think he broke the vows he made in marriage?

 

 

 

why only to his mother? his father was/is worse,no? why are you excusing his behavior? Does he remind you of yourself? You said that you would have killed OP if it were you....wow...there is something inherently wrong with you, dude....really, get help.

 

 

 

Moot and academic...this is pure speculation. Something that you are wishing for to teach OP a lesson....

 

 

 

I get you. Kinda like women should not go out with you because you are one seriously damage goods?

 

 

 

Of course not..you are nutty. You could not even defend you statement by answering the questions I raised. For your own sake, get help.

 

..You need help more than I do tami, when are you gonna realize that. lol.

 

I give women every chance to do right by me if they screw up then I slam the door in their face.

 

Aww so the son attacked his cheating mother and her affair partner after the mother argued with the son coming to his house! Really I would have been forced to reply in kind to. Maybe not attacking my mom but the OP would have caught a hot one that day.

 

Again, I answered every question. You refuse to read it, sincerely. So hop off!

[spiraling downward]

..You need help more than I do tami, when are you gonna realize that. lol.

 

I give women every chance to do right by me if they screw up then I slam the door in their face.

 

Aww so the son attacked his cheating mother and her affair partner after the mother argued with the son coming to his house! Really I would have been forced to reply in kind to. Maybe not attacking my mom but the OP would have caught a hot one that day.

 

Again, I answered every question. You refuse to read it, sincerely. So hop off!

 

Chrome, I'm gonna give you one thing... I never claimed that I wasn't (or am not) hyporitical in this... All I can say it that once the ball started rolling in the affair with my former MW... I couldn't deny my overwhelming desire to continue to pursue her. I had an immense amount of internal conflict, thus my screen handle "spiraling downward"... At times it would have been easy to walk away as I never had any trouble finding dates. In the end, our mutual desire for each other (and a future together) was the stronger force. We made it happen, we'll deal with the fall out.

[Tony]

Let's get much nicer in this thread or I'll delete the nasty posts and shut it down. NICE!!! Thank you!

[Dexter Morgan]

The Good:

 

My former MW is now an XMW and currently my fiancée

 

 

that is good for you.........................................for now

[Impudent Oyster]

How long did the affair last? I've been involved in mostly an EA for almost 3 1/2 years... with a few break ups in between. We never discussed our future until a few months ago when we decided we wanted to be together permanently. Although it sounds cliche, both our marriages were dead before we met... we stayed out of financial reasons and for the kids.

 

We both talked and decided that it would be best to keep our relationship a secret until both of our divorces were finalized (we're coworkers and most likely would get fired). It was looking like that would be shortly after the first of the year, but her husband quit his job to pursue is dream of being a couch potato and severely strained their finances. To be honest, I've been willing to wait until summer because it gives us about nearly 3 month break from our jobs. It will give me time to reduce some debt.

 

 

So then you are already in the process of getting divorced, as in you've filed already?

 

That's good.

[White Flower]

The Good:

 

My former MW is now an XMW and currently my fiancée... we have been living together now for about 2 months.

 

Our communication about relationship matters is still top notch... I believe we both know the score about our relationship, so we re-assure each other daily of our love and committment. (ie. the built-in trust problems in a relationship that started in an affair.)

 

We really have a compatible sense of humor with each other and we keep our time together light and fun as much as possible. We've already had our share of disagreements, but we remain tolerant and respectful of each other's positions and we make sure we patch things up before we go to bed each night.

 

Her two pre-teen boys seem to like me... I interact with them (sometimes sitting down a playing games with them and their friends, for example) I really don't try to be their dad though. I'm just there for them. We encourage their relationship with their father and are pretty good at not letting any of the negative talk about him reach their ears. The boys are fairly well adjusted to their new life, but every now and then some anger does pop up...

 

The boys are doing fairly well in school, have a lot of new friends and we are able to generally maintain a calm and peaceful environment for them at home. (other than raising boys of that age and hell raising that they like to do!)

 

We are able to maintain a fairly structured life for them.

 

As for us, we understand that it is a continual daily choice to love and care for each other.

 

The Bad:

 

Her now ex is still a sociopath. We've managed to stay a step ahead of him throughout the whole divorce proceeding, as he was very easy to predict... but he's still a pain to deal with sometimes. There's not much he can control in the life of my fiancée any longer.... but what he can control, he plays it for what it's worth. Fortunately, he runs from any direct confrontation and backs down.

 

The Ugly:

 

Her oldest (adult) son hates me. During the divorce, my fiancée had a physical altercation with him. I was standing back a ways... as the altercation broke out... he tackled her to the ground and pinned her there. I of course, intervened. He got up when he saw me coming... took a couple of swings (and landed them). Well that pissed me off. I went after him... grabbed him and took him to the ground myself and sat on him. He was not a happy camper. Anyway, he said a lot of very terrible things to me about what he was going to do to me and my kids... but I stayed cool and just restrained him until he could calm down a bit. It didn't go much further than that... but he has all of his anger directed at me now. It's the way it goes.

 

He lives with his father and the people around him are feeding his anger and hatred. It's really a very unfortunate situation. So this is a long term and lingering issue for us. My fiancée is making some progress with him in repairing her relationship with him.... but I'm going to stay in the background and out of his life for a very long time. Only if he one day decides to accept his mom and myself together.

 

He has no problem with his dad and dad's girlfriend.... They got together openly about a week after my fiancée physically moved out of that household. From our perspective, this seems a bit convoluted timewise... but I'm sure from the son's perspective, the events that happened this summer distorted time just a bit.

 

Well, I know that the odds of a successful relationship starting in an affair is somewhere in the 1% to 3% range.... We seem to be managing so far.

 

Just thought I would give the forum an update.

That is the ringtone on my phone! I love The good, the bad, and the ugly!

 

It's nice to hear that you BOTH followed through on your plan. I'm sure you have some wrinkles to iron out but over time it will improve.

 

I tend to look for the good within the bad. Your step-son probably doesn't like you for sitting on him and stopping his violent actions, but one day he will see that you were a good guy for defending the woman you love, his mother. That HAS to be a good thing! He would do the same for his future wife (at least one would hope so) and one day he'll see it that way.

 

I think I get what you were saying about the timing of the ex's g/f being convoluted. I don't know your whole story, but I am thinking your step-son hates you for 'taking his mom away from dad' but it's perfectly fine for dad to have this immediate R. It's almost as if his R with the new g/f is right because your R was wrong. Whatever, let it go. At least the ex has someone else to focus on and hopefully she'll get him to forget about being...well, the way he is toward you all.

 

The most important thing with regard to the kids is to keep on demonstrating your love for each other so that the younger kids can have an example of something to look forward to in their future. Mom doesn't have to put up with an abusive R anymore, she can swim in the Sea of Love she has found in you. THAT is a good thing for kids to witness. And they now have a past that they can compare with your future.

 

Best,

WF.