jw90063 Posted December 1, 2009 Posted December 1, 2009 I think a good point to be made is some people should just avoid alcohol all together, then things like this wouldn't happen. It's really sad some feel the need to drink their butt off to the point of not knowing what they are doing. I've noticed more than one post from the OP, where alcohol was a big factor in the story. Wonder what the outcome of these situations would have been if someone had just had a soda instead of beer or whatever.
Author dreamergrl Posted December 1, 2009 Author Posted December 1, 2009 I think a good point to be made is some people should just avoid alcohol all together, then things like this wouldn't happen. It's really sad some feel the need to drink their butt off to the point of not knowing what they are doing. I've noticed more than one post from the OP, where alcohol was a big factor in the story. Wonder what the outcome of these situations would have been if someone had just had a soda instead of beer or whatever. I wasn't the one drinking my butt off. I had one drink. Yes my past experience that everyone is talking about involved alcohol. Hence, why I've slowed down a lot when I do drink now. I'm not sure why some feel the need to throw that experience in my face. That experience has nothing to do with the guy getting plastered and proclaiming love after being asked to leave due to pushing himself on me.
Left in a Lurch Posted December 1, 2009 Posted December 1, 2009 Alcohol was not a factor, self control was the factor. Big difference.
jw90063 Posted December 1, 2009 Posted December 1, 2009 I wasn't the one drinking my butt off. I had one drink. Yes my past experience that everyone is talking about involved alcohol. Hence, why I've slowed down a lot when I do drink now. I'm not sure why some feel the need to throw that experience in my face. That experience has nothing to do with the guy getting plastered and proclaiming love after being asked to leave due to pushing himself on me. Good grief. I never said you were drinking your butt off. The point of my post wasn't to point fingers at you or throw the experience in your face. I was saying in general that some people shouldn't drink, because it can lead to out of control incidents. This guy seemed to not hold his alcohol well, and was out of control. Perhaps if he had not been drinking as much, none of that would have happened. I do find it really weird for him to be saying "I Love You" that early. I know he was drunk, but still. And yes several incidents you have mentioned have involved alcohol if I recall, so in ways they are similar. That is what I was comparing. Again, wasn't trying to throw it in your face.
Author dreamergrl Posted December 1, 2009 Author Posted December 1, 2009 Good grief. I never said you were drinking your butt off. The point of my post wasn't to point fingers at you or throw the experience in your face. I was saying in general that some people shouldn't drink, because it can lead to out of control incidents. This guy seemed to not hold his alcohol well, and was out of control. Perhaps if he had not been drinking as much, none of that would have happened. I do find it really weird for him to be saying "I Love You" that early. I know he was drunk, but still. And yes several incidents you have mentioned have involved alcohol if I recall, so in ways they are similar. That is what I was comparing. Again, wasn't trying to throw it in your face. Sorry.. I read it wrong. My apologies for getting defensive.
jw90063 Posted December 1, 2009 Posted December 1, 2009 Alcohol was not a factor, self control was the factor. Big difference. Well I don't agree that alcohol wasn't a factor at all. I do agree self control was a factor, but I think its a combination. I think its obvious things would have had a better outcome if lots of drinking was not involved. The guy does have problems, and I'm not saying it was just alcohol. It did worsen his behavior and the situation. Sorry.. I read it wrong. My apologies for getting defensive. Ok.
Author dreamergrl Posted December 1, 2009 Author Posted December 1, 2009 The dumb thing is I thought I was using good judgment. I took several things into factor when thinking it'd be okay. I know that each thing alone doesn't mean much, but I though given the whole situation it'd be fine. - My friends always have seen him as a stand up guy - No issues when we went out for drinks for one of the dates - No pressure go beyond kissing/cuddling - Agreeing with the boundaries being set - Having acted like a gentleman on the past three dates - No signs of neediness or baggage So given all of the above, I thought it'd be fine. Had I truly thought he would act in such a way, I never would have had him over. I was careful with how much I drank the first time we drank together. Since it has been brought up, I've been watching myself since the thing in September. I am though, however, happy with how I handled this situation. I'm happy I was able to maintain composer and control, and not panic. I am going to view it as another lesson learned, and keep going on a good progression to being able to have a healthy happy enjoyable relationship, when the time comes.
carhill Posted December 1, 2009 Posted December 1, 2009 I think those parameters were reasonable signals that the man was respectable, especially if known for quite some time in a non-dating situation. One thing I noticed, as I was with a large group of friends over the holidays, was that some guys get loud and sexual when drinking and others, like myself, have fun, laugh a lot, but don't make off-color and inappropriate remarks. I'm talking about men in the 45-65 range. I'm talking about such remarks being made about spouses who are present. I've noted a certain tipping point where such behavior begins. I've seen this dynamic in women as well, and did at this gathering. I call it 'drinking too much', which sounds like the OP has recognized as well. I've seen this in married female friends who make inappropriate advances when beyond this boundary, especially in private. I guess the imperative is either to limit the drinking to a point that the boundary isn't in play or to avoid private contact if the boundary has been breached. With the man in question, it's possible the OP never perceived the boundary, since apparently the man never displayed such signals before. Live and learn. My advice would be to remember all men are different and there are plenty of men who are gentlemen both publicly and privately. Perhaps set a drinking boundary where men are disallowed private contact of any sort if you perceive them to drink 'too much'. If you want to have him over for dinner and drinks, invite another couple to join you and revel together. Baby steps
Rudderless Posted December 1, 2009 Posted December 1, 2009 Stop right there. It wasn't as if we were out at a bar, drunk, and I had him over. You talk like I lured him into it. And that's not the case here. If it was the case of "We were drunk, and I invited him up into my room" .. yes then I would have to hold myself accountable. You didn't "lure" him into anything. But you are accountable in that you need to consider you own actions from perspectives other than your own. Your idea of taking it slow can be totally different from what someone elses is. how is inviting someone to your place after 3 dates taking it slow? Is it slow because you're used to going really fast? This is why when you've previously been given a key to someone's apartment after 3 days and you think that's ok is totally relevant. What sort of pace is it for someone else? Is pace only to do with intimacy? Whatever chat you have about taking it slow, your actions are speaking much louder in the way HE perceives it. Did you think about what inviting him over really meant to him? Did the conversation about taking it slow arise after or before you had invited him to your place?
GorillaTheater Posted December 1, 2009 Posted December 1, 2009 You didn't "lure" him into anything. But you are accountable in that you need to consider you own actions from perspectives other than your own. Your idea of taking it slow can be totally different from what someone elses is. how is inviting someone to your place after 3 dates taking it slow? Is it slow because you're used to going really fast? This is why when you've previously been given a key to someone's apartment after 3 days and you think that's ok is totally relevant. What sort of pace is it for someone else? Is pace only to do with intimacy? Whatever chat you have about taking it slow, your actions are speaking much louder in the way HE perceives it. Did you think about what inviting him over really meant to him? Did the conversation about taking it slow arise after or before you had invited him to your place? They were supposed to talk about what inviting him over "really meant" to him? People do that? Even in the absence of this kind of conversation, this guy leapt to some pretty huge alcohol-based assumptions. The guy wouldn't take no for an answer, and THAT's the conversation that counts in this case.
Star Gazer Posted December 1, 2009 Posted December 1, 2009 FWIW, an incredibly similar discussion (less the booze) took place after one of my less-than-pleasant experiences. http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t158359/
Author dreamergrl Posted December 1, 2009 Author Posted December 1, 2009 You didn't "lure" him into anything. But you are accountable in that you need to consider you own actions from perspectives other than your own. Your idea of taking it slow can be totally different from what someone elses is. Ugh, we talked about boundaries on sex and what we were both comfortable with. We talked about taking it slow as a relationship as well. There was no misunderstanding. how is inviting someone to your place after 3 dates taking it slow? Is it slow because you're used to going really fast? This is why when you've previously been given a key to someone's apartment after 3 days and you think that's ok is totally relevant. To let myself in because I was making some freaking dinner. And how many times do I have to state that I questioned that as well. It wasn't "Hey let yourself in whenever". I've had movie nights where a guy wasn't on me like butter on bread. And it went just fine. What sort of pace is it for someone else? Is pace only to do with intimacy? You know what, seriously, if he wasn't okay with what I had to say about what pace I'm comfortable with, then he could easily speak up instead of pushing himself on me. Whatever chat you have about taking it slow, your actions are speaking much louder in the way HE perceives it. Did you think about what inviting him over really meant to him? Did the conversation about taking it slow arise after or before you had invited him to your place? He mentioned movie night, and then we had the talk. As I've already stated. So the "Inviting him over for a movie means sex" doesn't work here.
Rudderless Posted December 2, 2009 Posted December 2, 2009 Ugh, we talked about boundaries on sex and what we were both comfortable with. We talked about taking it slow as a relationship as well. There was no misunderstanding. . That's just priceless. 3 dates in, you had the relationship chat, then proceeded as if this was all natural with a movie night at yours. I've had movie nights where a guy wasn't on me like butter on bread. And it went just fine. I give up. I could never find it normal that after a few dates you haven't decided whether you want to bonk someone (what happened to passion, fun, and attraction?). And on top of that you sit at home and watch a movie as a date and don't think that's skipping a few steps directly into being couply. You know what, seriously, if he wasn't okay with what I had to say about what pace I'm comfortable with, then he could easily speak up instead of pushing himself on me. The way it ended up is just sad and you didn't deserve it at all, but that's not and has never been my issue with what you've written. How you can not see the way you've tried to progress is unhealthy and back to front is totally beyond my comprehension. He mentioned movie night, and then we had the talk. As I've already stated. So the "Inviting him over for a movie means sex" doesn't work here. You see, I didn't even say this could be interpreted as come over and lets have sex. I took it as the other way around. What it meant in the context of everything else was, come over to mine and hang out and lets skip the exciting sex bit part of this whole dating thing! My original point was you just didn't freakin like him! Right I'll alter that to desire him! Yeah sure maybe you liked him as a person, but seriously, at least, the way my current relationship progressed and the ones before, you obviously didn't want to rip his clothes off, and you're so unbothered by that aspect of attraction you were ok to do something couply at your place without that even figuring into it. What's the point anyway? Did you deserve it? No. Was it your fault? No. Would this have ever been a situation you were in if you only progress with people you sexually desire? No no no no no.
Author dreamergrl Posted December 2, 2009 Author Posted December 2, 2009 That's just priceless. 3 dates in, you had the relationship chat, then proceeded as if this was all natural with a movie night at yours. He brought it up .. what do you want me to do? He asked me what I was looking for, I was honest, and he proceeded to tell me. I give up. I could never find it normal that after a few dates you haven't decided whether you want to bonk someone (what happened to passion, fun, and attraction?). And on top of that you sit at home and watch a movie as a date and don't think that's skipping a few steps directly into being couply. Why are you flipping on me. He brought up the talk. He brought up the movie. He went overboard with the drinking and groping. The way it ended up is just sad and you didn't deserve it at all, but that's not and has never been my issue with what you've written. How you can not see the way you've tried to progress is unhealthy and back to front is totally beyond my comprehension. What was unhealthy about it? You see, I didn't even say this could be interpreted as come over and lets have sex. I took it as the other way around. What it meant in the context of everything else was, come over to mine and hang out and lets skip the exciting sex bit part of this whole dating thing! Because I don't want to have sex yet? My original point was you just didn't freakin like him! Right I'll alter that to desire him! Yeah sure maybe you liked him as a person, but seriously, at least, the way my current relationship progressed and the ones before, you obviously didn't want to rip his clothes off, and you're so unbothered by that aspect of attraction you were ok to do something couply at your place without that even figuring into it. What's the point anyway? Why are you so bent on deciding that I didn't like him? Are you me? Do you know what I was thinking? No and No. Did you deserve it? No. Was it your fault? No. Would this have ever been a situation you were in if you only progress with people you sexually desire? No no no no no. So just because I didn't want to have sex yet (and even if I did, I still would not have due to my period), that means I don't find him sexually desirable?
Rudderless Posted December 2, 2009 Posted December 2, 2009 He brought it up .. what do you want me to do? He asked me what I was looking for, I was honest, and he proceeded to tell me. Why are you flipping on me. He brought up the talk. He brought up the movie. He went overboard with the drinking and groping. I'm not flipping anything on you. It doesn't matter who brought it up, if you're having that talk after 3 dates, off you go. It's not normal! What was unhealthy about it? Because dating is about going out and having fun and part of that fun, excitement, and passion, is having sex, not having a talk about sex and where you go from here with your not yet existent relationship, then trying to do something couply without involving that aspect into it. It goes against all aspects of human nature. Because I don't want to have sex yet? Why are you so bent on deciding that I didn't like him? Are you me? Do you know what I was thinking? No and No. So just because I didn't want to have sex yet (and even if I did, I still would not have due to my period), that means I don't find him sexually desirable?No I'm not you, but I don't need to be to see that you're coming across as pretty damn confused. Are you seriously trying to tell me you found this guy sexually desirable but agreed not to have sex yet? Why would you do that? Are you so fragile you can't bonk someone you desire when you feel like it? If so, why are you dating? If you don't feel like bonking him, why are you dating him? Why is sex such a damn complication? It makes no sense.
Author dreamergrl Posted December 2, 2009 Author Posted December 2, 2009 I'm not flipping anything on you. It doesn't matter who brought it up, if you're having that talk after 3 dates, off you go. It's not normal! It's not a bad thing to know your dating someone who is looking for the same things at the time. I'm not ready for a full fledged relationship right now. I want to go slower then what I was doing before. And I want the guy (if there is one) to be on the same page. Because dating is about going out and having fun and part of that fun, excitement, and passion, is having sex, not having a talk about sex and where you go from here with your not yet existent relationship, then trying to do something couply without involving that aspect into it. It goes against all aspects of human nature. I'd rather have the talk about sex so he'd know it's not something that I want right off the bat at this time. That way, if he wants more, he can pass on me, because I'm not wanting to have sex at this point. No I'm not you, but I don't need to be to see that you're coming across as pretty damn confused. Are you seriously trying to tell me you found this guy sexually desirable but agreed not to have sex yet? Why would you do that? Are you so fragile you can't bonk someone you desire when you feel like it? If so, why are you dating? If you don't feel like bonking him, why are you dating him? Why is sex such a damn complication? It makes no sense. I wouldn't have kissed him or cuddled with him if I didn't find him sexually desirable. I can date and not have sex. Right now I feel sex will get me emotionally attached. I also don't want a guy to be with me just for the sex.
silverfish Posted December 2, 2009 Posted December 2, 2009 It's not a bad thing to know your dating someone who is looking for the same things at the time. I'm not ready for a full fledged relationship right now. I want to go slower then what I was doing before. And I want the guy (if there is one) to be on the same page. I'd rather have the talk about sex so he'd know it's not something that I want right off the bat at this time. That way, if he wants more, he can pass on me, because I'm not wanting to have sex at this point. I wouldn't have kissed him or cuddled with him if I didn't find him sexually desirable. I can date and not have sex. Right now I feel sex will get me emotionally attached. I also don't want a guy to be with me just for the sex. He sounds like an immature idiot really, you couldn't have been straighter with him from what you've said and he still didn't get it. He behaved like a teenaged bot not a man. You deserve better
jw90063 Posted December 2, 2009 Posted December 2, 2009 Because dating is about going out and having fun and part of that fun, excitement, and passion, is having sex, not having a talk about sex and where you go from here with your not yet existent relationship. Are you seriously trying to tell me you found this guy sexually desirable but agreed not to have sex yet? Why would you do that? Are you so fragile you can't bonk someone you desire when you feel like it? If so, why are you dating? If you don't feel like bonking him, why are you dating him? Why is sex such a damn complication? It makes no sense. Sorry was just reading, and have to stick my two cents in. I just have to tell you, that you are the one that is pretty darn confused. I think the OP is wanting to wait in GENERAL to take it the next level, which is sex. It's not about disliking this guy or not finding him sexually desirable. If you were just a little more bright and less rude, you might realize that. Some people have preferences, and don't want to screw someone after a couple of dates. Sorry, not everyone is like you, Rudderless. Carry on with your lifestyle, but don't keep attacking someone over theirs. I haven't always agreed with the OP's threads, but if she wasn't ready for sex, there is nothing wrong with that. I think it's wrong to make someone else feel bad because they didn't have sex within three dates. As I said, doesn't mean they don't like the person.
Rudderless Posted December 2, 2009 Posted December 2, 2009 Dreamer, for the love of god, if you find someone you like and desire you won't need to worry about being emotionally attached or moving too fast. It's supposed to be fun and natural, not about laying down ground rules and overcoming hurdles. And that's all aspects of it including sex. Yes I get after the things that have occurred you're probably wary, but that flies out of the window when you meet someone you don't need to have that chat with.
Rudderless Posted December 2, 2009 Posted December 2, 2009 Sorry was just reading, and have to stick my two cents in. I just have to tell you, that you are the one that is pretty darn confused. I think the OP is wanting to wait in GENERAL to take it the next level, which is sex. It's not about disliking this guy or not finding him sexually desirable. If you were just a little more bright and less rude, you might realize that. I'm not confused at all. Yes, I get she has this massive fragility at the moment which means she has to wait in general, which means she should stay out of dating and get the hell over it and stop making such an unhealthily big deal out of something that's so fun and natural for every other well adjusted adult of her age. She's not some 16 year old virgin.
Author dreamergrl Posted December 2, 2009 Author Posted December 2, 2009 Dreamer, for the love of god, if you find someone you like and desire you won't need to worry about being emotionally attached or moving too fast. It's supposed to be fun and natural, not about laying down ground rules and overcoming hurdles. And that's all aspects of it including sex. Sure I can be worried. I could end up wanting to be with a guy who is just looking for sex. I don't feel like going through that. I don't feel like being emotionally attached who doesn't want more. Yes I get after the things that have occurred you're probably wary, but that flies out of the window when you meet someone you don't need to have that chat with. There's been times that I didn't think I needed to have that chat with. God was I wrong. I'm not confused at all. Yes, I get she has this massive fragility at the moment which means she has to wait in general, which means she should stay out of dating and get the hell over it and stop making such an unhealthily big deal out of something that's so fun and natural for every other well adjusted adult of her age. She's not some 16 year old virgin. Why should I not date just because I don't want to screw right now?
Boundary Problem Posted December 2, 2009 Posted December 2, 2009 I'm not confused at all. Yes, I get she has this massive fragility at the moment which means she has to wait in general, which means she should stay out of dating and get the hell over it and stop making such an unhealthily big deal out of something that's so fun and natural for every other well adjusted adult of her age. She's not some 16 year old virgin. It isn't fun and natural unless we are comfortable and ready to have sex. It isn't like ordering a Big Mac at McDonalds. Just because we don't want the Big Mac on the 3rd date when watching a movie, doesn't mean we are "16 yr old virgins". I just sense some hostility toward those of us who move at a glacial pace towards intimacy - Mr. Rudderless (how did you come up with that name? by the way).
carhill Posted December 2, 2009 Posted December 2, 2009 (edited) Would sex with this guy have been 'fun and natural'? Perhaps it will be with some future date, but this was not the one, hence the title of the thread To me, it's about compatibility. I might opine the same thing about a woman who sticks her hand down my pants inappropriately (yes, it has happened). We are individuals, not stereotypes. Edited December 2, 2009 by carhill
Rudderless Posted December 2, 2009 Posted December 2, 2009 Would sex with this guy have been 'fun and natural'? Perhaps it will be with some future date, but this was not the one, hence the title of the thread . No, it would have never been fun and natural with him. That's what happens to women who start viewing sex as a witholding tool instead of a bonding tool.
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