Rudderless Posted November 30, 2009 Posted November 30, 2009 the fact that you think she just doesn't like him. so if she did show more interest towards him, he somehow would have turned out to a sane human being? assuming you are male, just curious. so how long have you been released from jail since your attempted rape charges? LOL you seem to agree its fine the guy was forcing himself on her. scary stuff bro Actually, not scary stuff at all. If anything it's pretty obvious you don't get out much, seemingly, as it's not just men, women have made pretty persistent attempts when I've been drunk too, also this is not particularly rare amongst my friends either male and female. Trying it on isn't a rare occurrence and doesn't usually land you in Jail. If Dreamer was "attacked" by this guy, why isn't he in jail? This is called being amorous and drunk. She told him to go, he went. If you comparing it to rape you're a total loner, and something's wrong in your head.
Ody Posted November 30, 2009 Posted November 30, 2009 'what will having sex mean for us'. I find having this conversation while in the midst of a making out session to be extremely difficult. LOL that's a priceless quote right there. Yeah I'm with you, I prefer the discussion before dessert rather than during as well. Or maybe after dessert.
dudet Posted November 30, 2009 Posted November 30, 2009 Actually, not scary stuff at all. If anything it's pretty obvious you don't get out much, seemingly, as it's not just men, women have made pretty persistent attempts when I've been drunk too, also this is not particularly rare amongst my friends either male and female. Trying it on isn't a rare occurrence and doesn't usually land you in Jail. If Dreamer was "attacked" by this guy, why isn't he in jail? This is called being amorous and drunk. She told him to go, he went. If you comparing it to rape you're a total loner, and something's wrong in your head. you're kidding me right LOL. i've noticed a pattern from people like you. if someone isn't a sleeze ball, you get accused of not being experienced, being a loner and not getting out much.that's your sorry way of defending your demeanor. trying to make a decent person look like a pos when in fact you are of that nature. update, maybe i'm just not a sleeze. I get out plenty and I've f'd plenty of times. i think its a good thing to respect people though, you should try it..it does wonders you don't know what this guys intentions was. there is a big difference between being drunk and acting up, and the way this guy acted and things he said to her was weird as all get out. and if you don't see that, consider finding out what's wrong with your head buddy
Rudderless Posted November 30, 2009 Posted November 30, 2009 you're kidding me right LOL. i've noticed a pattern from people like you. if someone isn't a sleeze ball, you get accused of not being experienced, being a loner and not getting out much.that's your sorry way of defending your demeanor. trying to make a decent person look like a pos when in fact you are of that nature. update, maybe i'm just not a sleeze. I get out plenty and I've f'd plenty of times. i think its a good thing to respect people though, you should try it..it does wonders you don't know what this guys intentions was. there is a big difference between being drunk and acting up, and the way this guy acted and things he said to her was weird as all get out. and if you don't see that, consider finding out what's wrong with your head buddy Uh oh "nice guy" alert. The totally respectful guy that's never done stupid things when they're drunk or had anyone do anything stupid to them. Yeah yeah, pull the other one, you're simply more likely to be the weirdo sleaze ball mr repressed LOL
dudet Posted November 30, 2009 Posted November 30, 2009 another thing, anyone who accused her of not liking the guy. you need to think about why she didn't want to go further in this situation. not so much she didn't like him, but maybe she was turned off by his extreme aggressiveness. had he not have been so disrespectful towards her, she maybe would have gone further. a lot of women like men who respect them in which he didn't . i don't think drinking is much of an excuse. if it was, he wouldn't have brought up falling in love with her after 4th date, and other weirdness.
Rudderless Posted November 30, 2009 Posted November 30, 2009 Well, if telling someone you love them when you're drunk after 4 dates is weird, imagine how weird giving them the key to your apartment after 3 when you're not drunk is.....
justforfun Posted November 30, 2009 Posted November 30, 2009 another thing, anyone who accused her of not liking the guy. you need to think about why she didn't want to go further in this situation. not so much she didn't like him, but maybe she was turned off by his extreme aggressiveness. had he not have been so disrespectful towards her, she maybe would have gone further. a lot of women like men who respect them in which he didn't . i don't think drinking is much of an excuse. if it was, he wouldn't have brought up falling in love with her after 4th date, and other weirdness. Not trying to be rude, but have you been drinking?
justforfun Posted November 30, 2009 Posted November 30, 2009 dreamgurl, you're either going to stick to your guns on this one or you're going to see another perspective. Either one will determine your future experiences. I totally agree. I couldn't believe the things I was hearing and reading after he left. I'm not the type to wait until marriage or whatever for sex. I go for what feels right for me. It hasn't felt right to have that type of relationship yet. I wanted to get to know him better. And for part of the evening, I was. We were talking and making conversation. Then it all just changed. He went in for a kiss. I was fine with that. Nothing we haven't done. And the first time he tried, and I said no, I was okay with that because he stopped. But when he kept trying over and over again....
justforfun Posted November 30, 2009 Posted November 30, 2009 Well, if telling someone you love them when you're drunk after 4 dates is weird, imagine how weird giving them the key to your apartment after 3 when you're not drunk is..... Well, if your so drunk you have fallen down in front of your front door and can't manage to find the lock. Then the most sensible thing would be to give her the key so you can both get inside
Rudderless Posted November 30, 2009 Posted November 30, 2009 Well, if your so drunk you have fallen down in front of your front door and can't manage to find the lock. Then the most sensible thing would be to give her the key so you can both get inside lol, yeah I don't think it's wise to go there with the getting drunk and doing stupid things, not after I stuck up for a certain poster after she did something stupid when drunk and someone blew her off for it (told her exactly the same thing, if he liked you he might of considered it was out of character, instead of taking the key to the apartment back.....)
dudet Posted November 30, 2009 Posted November 30, 2009 Not trying to be rude, but have you been drinking? maybe not rude, but sure a dumb thing to ask. you are asking me if my logical advice was due to me drinking? although, i'm against a sorry drunken guys behavior? too f'ing funny
justforfun Posted November 30, 2009 Posted November 30, 2009 maybe not rude, but sure a dumb thing to ask. you are asking me if my logical advice was due to me drinking? although, i'm against a sorry drunken guys behavior? too f'ing funny I skipped over after the first couple of your posts. You really did sound drunk. Stringing sentences together, rambling and not really getting to the point. My mistake, excuse me.
Author dreamergrl Posted December 1, 2009 Author Posted December 1, 2009 (edited) I really don't think you liked him. Had it been a guy you liked that you had to fend off and send packing when he got drunk you would have found it funny. That's generally what happens when you like someone, you're forgiving of their weaknesses and don't make a major deal out of it. I liked him prior to the whole ordeal. Well, if telling someone you love them when you're drunk after 4 dates is weird, imagine how weird giving them the key to your apartment after 3 when you're not drunk is..... lol, yeah I don't think it's wise to go there with the getting drunk and doing stupid things, not after I stuck up for a certain poster after she did something stupid when drunk and someone blew her off for it (told her exactly the same thing, if he liked you he might of considered it was out of character, instead of taking the key to the apartment back.....) First of all, the experience in which you are shoving in my face is the reason why I'm choosing to take things slow. Which is the reason why I didn't want to rush things. It's something I haven't taken lightly, that I am reminded of daily. Second of all, I never blamed him for blowing me off for it. And I'm glad you find it all amusing. I don't. I've spent quite some time coming to terms and learning how to deal with that part of me. And still am. I'm sorry if a guy shoving his hands down my pants several times, and me having to keep pulling them away and telling him no is a turn off. I don't think you can compare the key thing (which I did question, btw) to someone forcing themselves on you. Not to mention, the worlds "I love you" being thrown around like that. That never happened previously. A person should not agree about not having sex if they don't feel the same. Nor should they continue to force it if they are told no. Edited December 1, 2009 by dreamergrl
lonelyandfrustrated Posted December 1, 2009 Posted December 1, 2009 hahaha, dreamer, I'm laughing because I dated a guy like this. We (my friends and I) called him Biff. Not his real name. But omg, he was tall, handsome, built, and dumb as a box of rocks. The night I put him out of my house (we had only dated three or four times, did not live together), he came back in a cab and had the CAB DRIVER plead his case to me through my front door. "He's really sorry, ma'am, he seems like a real nice guy, won't you let him in?" lololol. NO. "What am I supposed to do with him?" cabbie says. "Good night!" I said. "Get offa my porch!" Last I ever heard of Biff. Ah, good times.
Author dreamergrl Posted December 1, 2009 Author Posted December 1, 2009 Well. obviously, after uttering 'I love you' after four dates, this guy didn't have a clue what 'taking things slow' meant. 'Taking things slow' can mean a quazillion things though. For some guys, it means 'i really like you and I want to get to know you'. For others, it's code for 'let's not get attached too fast' Neither, however, means 'let's not have sex too fast'. You were right to include sex into the idea 'taking things slow' up Dreamer, but you brought it up as a part of 'taking things slow'. Do you have any idea what he meant by taking things slow? Not that it matters really. The guy is toast. From what I understood, he didn't want to rush into a relationship (which I agreed upon), and I told him I didn't want to rush into sex (which he agreed upon). We literally talked out what we felt was okay for the time being (the night before). The next day, he admitted himself that he had crossed the line that we agreed upon. I know I made my own bad drunk mistake this year. And I'm still dealing with it. But it was that guys choice to next me. And it's my choice to next this guy. If I forgave this behavior I'd be setting myself up to have it happen all over again. And who knows, if the guy I was seeing forgave and let go of what I did, I may not have properly dealt with the issue at hand.
Rudderless Posted December 1, 2009 Posted December 1, 2009 (edited) I liked him prior to the whole ordeal. Fist of all, the experience in which you are shoving in my face is the reason why I'm choosing to take things slow. Which is the reason why I didn't want to rush things. It's something I haven't taken lightly, that I am reminded of daily. Second of all, I never blamed him for blowing me off for it. And I'm glad you find it all amusing. I don't. I've spent quite some time coming to terms and learning how to deal with that part of me. And still am. I'm sorry if a guy shoving his hands down my pants several times, and me having to keep pulling them away and telling him no is a turn off. I don't think you can compare the key thing (which I did question, btw) to someone forcing themselves on you. Not to mention, the worlds "I love you" being thrown around like that. That never happened previously. A person should not agree about not having sex if they don't feel the same. Nor should they continue to force it if they are told no. I had a feeling you'd respond with something like this. That's cool. You want to come on here when some guy does something weird (like friending your mother, giving you a key) and have us all say hey dreamer that's really great because you like it. Then another guy does something really weird (gets drunk, tries it on then tells you he loves you) and you want us all to say nooooooooo dreamer that's really bad, because you dont like it. The thing is, if you keep putting yourself into ridiculous situations when everyone is telling you not to then what's the point of being on here? Either you're rocketing off a 100 miles an hour, or you're crawling at a snails pace. In each case you'll justify why you're doing what you're doing until till you're blue in the face despite everyone else pointing out another perspective. "Why can't I just go against human nature?" time and time you ask. You seem to totally miss the point of what people are saying. What he did may be weird and freaky and wrong, but that's not the point. Had you thought about it for a minute, you like this guy so you claim, you invite him back to your place, there's alcohol involved -- well what's one of the probable outcomes? At which point are you going to take responsibility for the situations you put yourself in? Instead you're on a tirade about why a guy in that situation might not be able to control himself, make everything about demonising him and "guys like him" and in doing that you totally avoid and refuse to consider that your own actions are weird and confusing. Aren't you the one doing the chucking back in everyones face routine by creating all this drama? Edited December 1, 2009 by Rudderless
Kamille Posted December 1, 2009 Posted December 1, 2009 (edited) Instead you're on a tirade about why a guy in that situation might not be able to control himself, make everything about demonising him and "guys like him" and in doing that you totally avoid and refuse to consider that your own actions are weird and confusing. Well I'm totally against demonizing men in general which is why I think it's important to point out that this guy's actions are atypical. Men in similar situations generally manage to control themselves. Or generally manage to hold off the liquor. He is the one who should be held accountable for his choices and actions, not Dreamer. I don't see why we should infantilize him and claim he had no control over his actions. Edited December 1, 2009 by Kamille
Author dreamergrl Posted December 1, 2009 Author Posted December 1, 2009 I had a feeling you'd respond with something like this. That's cool. You want to come on here when some guy does something weird (like friending your mother, giving you a key) and have us all say hey dreamer that's really great because you like it. Then another guy does something really weird (gets drunk, tries it on then tells you he loves you) and you want us all to say nooooooooo dreamer that's really bad, because you dont like it. The thing is, if you keep putting yourself into ridiculous situations when everyone is telling you not to then what's the point of being on here? Either you're rocketing off a 100 miles an hour, or you're crawling at a snails pace. In each case you'll justify why you're doing what you're doing until till you're blue in the face despite everyone else pointing out another perspective. What am I justifying? That I had the right to next him because he over stepped boundaries that were placed? "Why can't I just go against human nature?" time and time you ask. You seem to totally miss the point of what people are saying. What he did may be weird and freaky and wrong, but that's not the point. Had you thought about it for a minute, you like this guy so you claim, you invite him back to your place, there's alcohol involved -- well what's one of the probable outcomes?Stop right there. It wasn't as if we were out at a bar, drunk, and I had him over. You talk like I lured him into it. And that's not the case here. If it was the case of "We were drunk, and I invited him up into my room" .. yes then I would have to hold myself accountable. He came over for the movie night. He came sober. Yes, I had 1 drink. I did not foresee him getting plastered in a few hours during some conversation prior to the movie. He had not acting in such a way when we were out for drinks a different night. At which point are you going to take responsibility for the situations you put yourself in? Instead you're on a tirade about why a guy in that situation might not be able to control himself, make everything about demonising him and "guys like him" and in doing that you totally avoid and refuse to consider that your own actions are weird and confusing. Aren't you the one doing the chucking back in everyones face routine by creating all this drama?So what? I forced him to start slamming drinks and shoving his hands where they did not belong? It is my fault he couldn't stop drinking when he realized he was getting piss drunk? I have no problem accepting blame for what happened in September. I know there were things I could have done differently. FYI - I have never went on a rant about guys are this or that. I don't get into the generalizations. So telling me I am demonizing him and guys like that is just not correct.
torranceshipman Posted December 1, 2009 Posted December 1, 2009 He kept shoving his hands down my pants and I kept pulling them back out and saying no. Even if I wanted it, I was on my period for crying out loud. I even told him that, and he still wouldn't stop. Lol oh God what a major league douchebag!!
jerseyboy Posted December 1, 2009 Posted December 1, 2009 I think the problem dreamer is you touched on a few issues that are touchy for guys. All total this guy was clearly out of line on many levels, and you'd be foolish to stay with him. Your choice was correct. Sloppy drunk, borderline rapist (at least how I'm taking your description), and emotionally needy/lack of control. Frankly most of the guys here would probably have pummeled him senseless if you were a friend or relative. The issue isn't him and or what you should of done. But individually some of the things , outside your specific context, bother men. We all have guy friends who cant control their emotions, fall too quickly, and start spouting jibberish. We have an empathy for them, and feel bad when women appear to be mocking them mercilessly. Because I can think of a few in particular, they are great guys. They would make great bf's. Girls complain that guys are too detached, emotionally vacant, and complain that they are the opposite. I get it, you dont need to explain how creepy it is.I know id feel the same way if a girl did it. Just a little understanding for them is all. Also the whole what does it mean if a girl takes you to her apt. There is a dynamic involved. If a guy asks before everything, he comes across as insecure and lacking confidence. And we all have girl "friends" that telll us how lame it is. And this guy clearly was way out of line. Most people take it in steps, and dont go just holding their hands down someones pants. Like baseball
torranceshipman Posted December 1, 2009 Posted December 1, 2009 Ok, I am confused, why is Dreamer getting flamed for this post? Her friends set her up with some guy who acts like a gent, enough for her to invite him over to hang out one evening for a movie at her apartment, but then he gets crazy drunk and won't stop trying to stick his hands down her pants (what a jerk!). Suitably horrified, she dumps him and posts here....what am I missing? Can someone enlighten me as to what she actually did that deserved a flame?
dudet Posted December 1, 2009 Posted December 1, 2009 Ok, I am confused, why is Dreamer getting flamed for this post? Her friends set her up with some guy who acts like a gent, enough for her to invite him over to hang out one evening for a movie at her apartment, but then he gets crazy drunk and won't stop trying to stick his hands down her pants (what a jerk!). Suitably horrified, she dumps him and posts here....what am I missing? Can someone enlighten me as to what she actually did that deserved a flame? yeah i know. i think some people like Rudderless don't get any action and wish hands were being forced down their pants. even in this very sad situation, where dreamer was disrespected, all they can think about is how boring their lives are, and they find themselves envious, lol. real pathetic if you ask me thing is it was just movie night at her place and why would someone get that drunk at home.it wasn't at a bar. i wouldn't be so much focused on him shoving his hands down her pants. its more so what he said about loving her and all that stuff. he doesn't know her but is saying psycho things like that. how does being drunk make that ok
tinktronik Posted December 1, 2009 Posted December 1, 2009 Dreamer, I have been a pretty staunch supporter in most of your threads. I am going to make some points here though. This is about learning to make decisions; although I love sex I make it a rule to get to know a guy really well before I sleep with him, mostly because I don't want my own logical judgement clouded by sexuality [i am worried I would overlook things that are not acceptable to me because the sex is good or fun]. Just because a group of friends gives the thumbs up to a "potential" does not mean that in the dating realm "a good guy", as someone else pointed out people can have very different rules in their friend lives vs. dating lives. You don't really know what you are setting yourself up for if you don't have a long experience of the "potential" yourself. I know in HS or as a young woman in general, even if I didn't really want to have sex, in the moment there is pressure and I was much more likely to just go along with it if the guy pushed for sex. I think many young men learn that this is a tactic that works often. This is something that this man should have outgrown by now but not all men do. You did the right thing to stick with a firm NO and send him on his way. But as an adult woman you have to form some foresight about the situations you put yourself in. It is in no way okay for anyone to make another uncomfortable but it is the way that life is. The guy saw a shot at sex, he took it, it did not work out, you sent him away. I don't think pressure to have sex or go farther is forcible rape, not unless you had to punch or scratch him or scream to get him off of you. Pushing someone away and continuing to make-out or snuggle with him does send mixed signals. As a single incident there is nothing questionable about you inviting him over alone for a movie [ it may not be something I would do] but in the larger picture of decision making having to do with your dating life, you have made some "brash" decisions that have not turned out well for you. That is what I personally would examine.
Author dreamergrl Posted December 1, 2009 Author Posted December 1, 2009 Dreamer, I have been a pretty staunch supporter in most of your threads. I am going to make some points here though. This is about learning to make decisions; although I love sex I make it a rule to get to know a guy really well before I sleep with him, mostly because I don't want my own logical judgement clouded by sexuality [i am worried I would overlook things that are not acceptable to me because the sex is good or fun]. Just because a group of friends gives the thumbs up to a "potential" does not mean that in the dating realm "a good guy", as someone else pointed out people can have very different rules in their friend lives vs. dating lives. You don't really know what you are setting yourself up for if you don't have a long experience of the "potential" yourself. Agreed. I know in HS or as a young woman in general, even if I didn't really want to have sex, in the moment there is pressure and I was much more likely to just go along with it if the guy pushed for sex. I think many young men learn that this is a tactic that works often. This is something that this man should have outgrown by now but not all men do. You did the right thing to stick with a firm NO and send him on his way. But as an adult woman you have to form some foresight about the situations you put yourself in. It is in no way okay for anyone to make another uncomfortable but it is the way that life is. The guy saw a shot at sex, he took it, it did not work out, you sent him away. I don't think pressure to have sex or go farther is forcible rape, not unless you had to punch or scratch him or scream to get him off of you. Pushing someone away and continuing to make-out or snuggle with him does send mixed signals. Just so we are all clear, I never called it rape or attempted rape. I also didn't continue to make out with him afterward. He kept pulling me closer and shoving his hands. At one point I had sat on the other side of the couch, he'd get up to go to the bathroom and come back and sit down right next to me. Finally I told him he had to go. As a single incident there is nothing questionable about you inviting him over alone for a movie [ it may not be something I would do] but in the larger picture of decision making having to do with your dating life, you have made some "brash" decisions that have not turned out well for you. That is what I personally would examine. I see what you are saying there. And as I've said, I do agree, and will not being having a guy over, even if he can keep his hands down, until I'm ready to move beyond kissing.
tinktronik Posted December 1, 2009 Posted December 1, 2009 Agreed. Just so we are all clear, I never called it rape or attempted rape. I also didn't continue to make out with him afterward. He kept pulling me closer and shoving his hands. At one point I had sat on the other side of the couch, he'd get up to go to the bathroom and come back and sit down right next to me. Finally I told him he had to go. I see what you are saying there. And as I've said, I do agree, and will not being having a guy over, even if he can keep his hands down, until I'm ready to move beyond kissing. I was just making this point b/c there was some accusations of "forcible rape" earlier in the thread. I'm glad to hear you've made this choice, it will keep you safe. It sucks that you can't build a traditional and strong friendship with a "potential mate" in the same way you would a friendship, it would be nice if you could just take it along by the same rules.
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