TheLoneSock Posted November 30, 2009 Posted November 30, 2009 So I had that date with the guy my friends set me up with. That was last week Saturday. Then we did a lunch date a few days later. Another date after that. He seemed pretty cool, had his head on straight. Rather affectionate. Seemed gentlemen like. No red flags. We got along very well. Some kissing, but that's it. So eventually we decide have a night in, with a movie or two. Work has been hectic for me, and I wasn't feeling like being out and about, but we wanted to hang out. So we did a movie night. There was food and drinks as well. Well I had one drink. He apparently had been sipping all night. Eh... It started out off well. We had some good conversation. Which led to some strange conversation. He started telling me he felt lost because he was no longer following his parents religion in which put a strain on the family.. and all this other deep type conversation. Moving ahead.. I think as the conversation went deeper, he started to drink more. Let me say, prior to all this, I had told him I wanted to take things slow, not rush anything. We both agreed it was good just getting to know each other. He got very touchy feely with me. To the point where I had to tell him to slow down. He agreed and backed off. Back to the movie. Not more then 15 minutes later, back to the same thing. He was shoving his hands down my pants and not understanding the word no. I told him it would be better if he left for the night. He begged and pleaded with me. Said he couldn't help himself. Finally he left. Not without some texts and phone calls though. One claiming how he could fall in love with me, I'm so wonderful. The next saying "But Dreamer! I love you!". Then saying "You don't know what your doing, I'm the best damn guy you could ever get". My phone went on silent. I went to bed. The next date he calls while I'm on my way to work, claiming he doesn't remember anything. I fill him in. He said he's ashamed of himself for losing control. Begs me not to tell my friends. Perhaps it was too soon for a night in with a movie. Maybe he drank to much? I don't know. We had some drinks together on one of our dates, and it sure didn't turn into that. He's also stopped in for a bit after a date, and we'd just talk or kiss and that'd be that. Nothing pushed. No asking for more. It was just a shock to me that all of a sudden he couldn't understand no. I thought we were on the same level, or I'd never have had him over for a movie. Eh... next. Dude, whoooaaa...
Kamille Posted November 30, 2009 Posted November 30, 2009 wow! Interesting thread. I'm sorry you had a bad date Dreamer - and I totally understand how distressing it might have been. I've been in similar -though not quite so bad - situations in the past where there was a verbal agreement that this was just-hanging-out-no-sex only to find myself having to push push push an otherwise interesting guy off. It's the reason I now fully enforce a rule where I never put myself in an intimate situation (such as hanging out watching movies) with a guy until I know I'm ready to have sex with him. I've found men actually respond really well to this. They understand that rule really well. And the advantage is that when I do finally accept to be in a room alone with a guy, I'm ready to rip his clothes off. It won't come as a surprise that men also respond splendidly well to feeling desired. Like it or not, many men will view being invited over to cuddle up on the couch as sexually encouraging, due to no one's fault in particular and regardless of whether they've been told they are getting any or not. Something to keep in mind. Agreed. I guess I assumed it wouldn't be a horrible idea due to the fact that he had (HAD) the respect of two very close friends of mine. Between that, and how there has been no pressure to do anything I don't want to do.. I thought all would be okay. Boy was I wrong.
justforfun Posted November 30, 2009 Posted November 30, 2009 No, "oh my god that was the best salmon I've ever had, I've changed my mind I really have to f**k this man's c**k after all." Chicks use this excuse too. I love when they do that because I have sex more often than I have home cooking so it's a real treat. This chick does! I've used the 'watch a movie' one before. I didn't actually know about it until my American friends explained it to me. I'm glad they did! I couldn't be bothered with the cooking malarky though. Too much trouble if you ask me. I suppose I could invite them over for pizza and tell them I can make it so it tastes just like Pizza Hut
Pizzaman81 Posted November 30, 2009 Posted November 30, 2009 He kept shoving his hands down my pants and I kept pulling them back out and saying no. Even if I wanted it, I was on my period for crying out loud. I even told him that, and he still wouldn't stop. I can just imagine that... that's not very smooth, shoving hand down pants move hardly ever works. Ya, NEXT.
justforfun Posted November 30, 2009 Posted November 30, 2009 Yes this thread has become an oracle of wisdom. It has for me. I've been told that going to watch a movie at the movie theater can be construed as a possible hook up. I'm not sure how that would work. But they say that he may suggest going back to his after or something like that. I'm not sure about that one though.
Kamille Posted November 30, 2009 Posted November 30, 2009 It has for me. I've been told that going to watch a movie at the movie theater can be construed as a possible hook up. LOL! I haven't read that posted anywhere in this thread - but then I read it fast. So let me get this straight: - we all agree the guy should be next-ed. On top of not respecting their original understanding, being pushy, getting drunk, professing love, the guy actually forgets about the whole incident. Case closed. Now the question is: is it okay for a guy to push for sex even after DG and him agreed they would take things slow, sex included. Or, how much pushing should the guy have done? Or, should she have even bothered to invite him over if she didn't intend to have sleep with him. As I've said: I've stopped putting myself in that situation. It's the most uncomfortable feeling in the universe, especially when you actually originally liked the guy. You basically have to reject someone for whom you actually feel attraction. But still, PinkToes and JFF raise good questions. Does the fact that guys have managed to convince women to go against their stipulated intention to take things slow in the past really justify pushing for sex? LS has seen countless threads of women writing because they're ashamed and confused after letting things go too far too soon because they got caught up in the moment. I mean - I don't think women say they want to take things slow sexually to play games. I think most of us actually mean it. We want to take things slow, feel like we trust the guy we're dating and feel respected. Women are also more likely to be relationship inclined. The thing is, we also have sex drives. We also feel attraction. I've always hated that double-standard. Abstaining from intimate settings is how I've resolved those tensions for myself - but I do understand the dismay and frustrations this double-standard causes. Most guys, after all, aren't that great at dealing with a girl once she feels insecure. And having sex too soon? That usually makes a girl feel insecure.
Rudderless Posted November 30, 2009 Posted November 30, 2009 Dreamer you don't like him. Men and women do and say stupid things when they are drunk. I've experienced far worse stupidity from women and laughed about it. It didn't require a lengthy analysis.
PinkToes Posted November 30, 2009 Posted November 30, 2009 I hope this isn't too far O/T, but this whole thread has me wondering if I'm the only woman who always decides in advance whether or not to have sex. For me, it's saved a ton of heartache over the years.
PinkToes Posted November 30, 2009 Posted November 30, 2009 Ooo! Ooo! Do me! Do me! You got references? I mean women who aren't in the witness protection program?
justforfun Posted November 30, 2009 Posted November 30, 2009 LOL! I haven't read that posted anywhere in this thread - but then I read it fast. Not in there. I've been told this IRL..what with me being new to the Americee dating scene.
justforfun Posted November 30, 2009 Posted November 30, 2009 I usually wait until the second date to drop the L word. I hate it when men hold out on me like that.
justforfun Posted November 30, 2009 Posted November 30, 2009 You got references? I mean women who aren't in the witness protection program? :laugh::laugh:
Ody Posted November 30, 2009 Posted November 30, 2009 It has for me. I've been told that going to watch a movie at the movie theater can be construed as a possible hook up. I'm not sure how that would work. Hehe I'm not sure either. I think whoever told you that listens to that one Alanis Morissette song too often! Not in there. I've been told this IRL..what with me being new to the Americee dating scene. My Norwegian friends and relatives tell me that in Oslo you just go to the club, and if you wanna hookup, you hookup. No games or "slut" finger pointing. I don't know if I believe them though. None of them struck me as having enough experience to back up such a big claim. Is the American scene really that different from other ones?
Ody Posted November 30, 2009 Posted November 30, 2009 I hope this isn't too far O/T, but this whole thread has me wondering if I'm the only woman who always decides in advance whether or not to have sex. For me, it's saved a ton of heartache over the years. It's the reason I now fully enforce a rule where I never put myself in an intimate situation (such as hanging out watching movies) with a guy until I know I'm ready to have sex with him. I've found men actually respond really well to this. They understand that rule really well. And the advantage is that when I do finally accept to be in a room alone with a guy, I'm ready to rip his clothes off. It won't come as a surprise that men also respond splendidly well to feeling desired. I'm pretty sure you gals are the norm actually. Otherwise I wouldn't have had such good fortune whenever it's the first movie night. Now the question is: is it okay for a guy to push for sex even after DG and him agreed they would take things slow, sex included. LOL I love how this thread is making guys sound like car salesmen or something trying to close a deal. Pretty simple I think, it depends on the definition of "push". For instance, case 1 - Guy gets touchy feeling, woman kind of moans and breathes in his ear "oh no we shouldn't" meanwhile has grabbed him at the hip. She clearly doesn't mean it, they have sex like bunnies and everyone is happy. Is ok to "push" here case 2 - Woman says no a bunch of times, guy turns into slobbering touchy feely mess, goes home and drunk dials. He should have just left with everyone's dignity intact if the miscommunication was that bad. Is not ok to "push" here
justforfun Posted November 30, 2009 Posted November 30, 2009 My Norwegian friends and relatives tell me that in Oslo you just go to the club, and if you wanna hookup, you hookup. No games or "slut" finger pointing. I don't know if I believe them though. None of them struck me as having enough experience to back up such a big claim. Is the American scene really that different from other ones? It's true. Well definitely true in England. In England it's unusual to meet anyone anywhere else except a bar or club. I've never understood why here everyone would be so against that. It's bizarre that you would be in a bar and that's okay. But you assume everyone else in the bar is not okay. Weird. And we do hook up if we want to. Nobody cares. Most relationships I know started with a ONS. In fact one of my good guy friends asked me had I noticed that the first time you sleep with someone you are usually really drunk. If you meet up again then you get drunk but not as drunk as the first time. This carries on until, before you know it, you're having sober sex! I had to laugh because it's true! When I first split with my husband and had started dating for a while I called my BFF in England moaning about how you have to have at least three dates before you can get laid. She said, 'come home babe, you know you can go out, get drunk, get laid all in one night.' So, yes. The American scene is so much different. I've noticed even by posting in this forum that a some people are so uptight (the women that is) that you would think it was the 1950's where women weren't supposed to enjoy sex. And those who do hook-up often flaunt it like it's a big deal and they have the magic key to sexual liberation. Dram, drama! I can't be bothered with the game playing. If I want to hook-up I do. If they think any the less of me because of it I don't really give $h!t.
dudet Posted November 30, 2009 Posted November 30, 2009 I'm pretty sure you gals are the norm actually. Otherwise I wouldn't have had such good fortune whenever it's the first movie night. LOL I love how this thread is making guys sound like car salesmen or something trying to close a deal. Pretty simple I think, it depends on the definition of "push". For instance, case 1 - Guy gets touchy feeling, woman kind of moans and breathes in his ear "oh no we shouldn't" meanwhile has grabbed him at the hip. She clearly doesn't mean it, they have sex like bunnies and everyone is happy. Is ok to "push" here case 2 - Woman says no a bunch of times, guy turns into slobbering touchy feely mess, goes home and drunk dials. He should have just left with everyone's dignity intact if the miscommunication was that bad. Is not ok to "push" here dude i managed to pick up on the fact that most of your post don't even make sense.lol. sounds like you just keep running off at the mouth. how is this helping dreamergrl
Author dreamergrl Posted November 30, 2009 Author Posted November 30, 2009 I do find it extremely sad that a girl can't say "Okay, let's watch a movie in my living room" without it meaning "We're having sex". I will prolong the option of a stay in night from now on, but I don't agree that it should have to be like that. The thing that gets me, is when I explained everything to him the next day, he goes.. "That is just so out of character for me, especially since we talked about not having sex yet the day before." That statement alone shows that he knows it was a no no. The fact that he doesn't want my friends to know shows that he knows it was a no no. We had set boundaries that we were both comfortable with. There was no leading him on.
dudet Posted November 30, 2009 Posted November 30, 2009 I do find it extremely sad that a girl can't say "Okay, let's watch a movie in my living room" without it meaning "We're having sex". I will prolong the option of a stay in night from now on, but I don't agree that it should have to be like that. The thing that gets me, is when I explained everything to him the next day, he goes.. "That is just so out of character for me, especially since we talked about not having sex yet the day before." That statement alone shows that he knows it was a no no. The fact that he doesn't want my friends to know shows that he knows it was a no no. We had set boundaries that we were both comfortable with. There was no leading him on. that is just so out of character for me, lol. he's so full of Sh$t. probably goes around trying to hide that he is a freak. luckily the alcohol allowed his real character to come out. he wasn't sincere about waiting to have sex. yeah you can do stupid things while drunk, but this sounds too weird and over the top. especially the things he said to you. he's nutty and the truth is out. what a loser
Author dreamergrl Posted November 30, 2009 Author Posted November 30, 2009 that is just so out of character for me, lol. he's so full of Sh$t. probably goes around trying to hide that he is a freak. luckily the alcohol allowed his real character to come out. he wasn't sincere about waiting to have sex. yeah you can do stupid things while drunk, but this sounds too weird and over the top. especially the things he said to you. he's nutty and the truth is out. what a loser I totally agree. I couldn't believe the things I was hearing and reading after he left. I'm not the type to wait until marriage or whatever for sex. I go for what feels right for me. It hasn't felt right to have that type of relationship yet. I wanted to get to know him better. And for part of the evening, I was. We were talking and making conversation. Then it all just changed. He went in for a kiss. I was fine with that. Nothing we haven't done. And the first time he tried, and I said no, I was okay with that because he stopped. But when he kept trying over and over again....
Rudderless Posted November 30, 2009 Posted November 30, 2009 So, yes. The American scene is so much different. I've noticed even by posting in this forum that a some people are so uptight (the women that is) that you would think it was the 1950's where women weren't supposed to enjoy sex. And those who do hook-up often flaunt it like it's a big deal and they have the magic key to sexual liberation. Dram, drama! That's the impression I get, dating, sex - really serious subject. Dreamer how about you pick a guy you like to invite back to yours? Or tell a guy you're not and will never be dating and invite him back to yours. That way you'll be able to enjoy the movie without making ridiculously vague statements about going slowly or whatever. You're asking "why can't we just be friends and hangout when we're dating?"
Author dreamergrl Posted November 30, 2009 Author Posted November 30, 2009 That's the impression I get, dating, sex - really serious subject. Dreamer how about you pick a guy you like to invite back to yours? Or tell a guy you're not and will never be dating and invite him back to yours. That way you'll be able to enjoy the movie without making ridiculously vague statements about going slowly or whatever. You're asking "why can't we just be friends and hangout when we're dating?" He made statements about taking it slow just as I did. I did like him. I did not like him sloppy drunk shoving his hands down my pants after being told no. I did not like being told "But I love you" after four dates. He should never have brought up taking things slow if he had no intentions on doing so. He brought the subject up first. Which brought me to speak how I felt at that point. I can not want to have sex with a guy and still be interested in him. You can date without having sex. If he wanted sex sooner, then he should have told me instead of pushing it on me.
Kamille Posted November 30, 2009 Posted November 30, 2009 (edited) [quote=Ody;2512680 LOL I love how this thread is making guys sound like car salesmen or something trying to close a deal. that is pretty funny. The female collateral stereotype of the guy who has to sell sex to a lady is the idea that women *don't* want to have sex. Ever. So if a guy doesn't push for it, then it's never going to happen. Obviously, that's far from being the truth. I love sex and want it just as much as guys - I do, however, know that I enjoy sex a lot better when I actually feel I can trust a guy. I believe both partners should be responsible for when sex is introduced in the relationship. I believe there needs to be a minimal amount of communication on the topic. And that's why I have issues with the casual-hanging-out-in-private-with-a-date scenario. Trying to have that conversation while both partners are coping with raging hormones is never easy. Girl is bound to feel insecure and guy is bound to tell her anything to reassure her (and actually believe it). Now, the alternative I could never recommend enough. Your date and you are sitting at a restaurant, you're both turned on by each other and your date invites you over for dessert. We both know what that means, so we're both titillated. Lean over and whisper, that's a very tempting offer but we've only been dating for two weeks. Leave it at that and let guy continue to pursue you. LOVE IT! Pretty simple I think, it depends on the definition of "push". For instance, case 1 - Guy gets touchy feeling, woman kind of moans and breathes in his ear "oh no we shouldn't" meanwhile has grabbed him at the hip. She clearly doesn't mean it, they have sex like bunnies and everyone is happy. Is ok to "push" here See, in this scenario the 'oh no we shouldn't' is meant to engage the conversation about 'what will having sex mean for us'. I find having this conversation while in the midst of a making out session to be extremely difficult. By that point, women usually find themselves trying to reconcile their desire to seem cool and casual, their sex-drive with their desire to be considered girlfriend material. I always found those moments incredibly confusing - if not downright tiresome. It basically felt like a test of my resolve. Solution: simply avoid the scenario. Edited November 30, 2009 by Kamille
Kamille Posted November 30, 2009 Posted November 30, 2009 Well. obviously, after uttering 'I love you' after four dates, this guy didn't have a clue what 'taking things slow' meant. 'Taking things slow' can mean a quazillion things though. For some guys, it means 'i really like you and I want to get to know you'. For others, it's code for 'let's not get attached too fast' Neither, however, means 'let's not have sex too fast'. You were right to include sex into the idea 'taking things slow' up Dreamer, but you brought it up as a part of 'taking things slow'. Do you have any idea what he meant by taking things slow? Not that it matters really. The guy is toast.
Rudderless Posted November 30, 2009 Posted November 30, 2009 He made statements about taking it slow just as I did. I did like him. I did not like him sloppy drunk shoving his hands down my pants after being told no. I did not like being told "But I love you" after four dates. I really don't think you liked him. Had it been a guy you liked that you had to fend off and send packing when he got drunk you would have found it funny. That's generally what happens when you like someone, you're forgiving of their weaknesses and don't make a major deal out of it.
dudet Posted November 30, 2009 Posted November 30, 2009 I really don't think you liked him. Had it been a guy you liked that you had to fend off and send packing when he got drunk you would have found it funny. That's generally what happens when you like someone, you're forgiving of their weaknesses and don't make a major deal out of it. the fact that you think she just doesn't like him. so if she did show more interest towards him, he somehow would have turned out to a sane human being? assuming you are male, just curious. so how long have you been released from jail since your attempted rape charges? LOL you seem to agree its fine the guy was forcing himself on her. scary stuff bro
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