Yikes! Next!

[Rudderless]

It isn't fun and natural unless we are comfortable and ready to have sex. It isn't like ordering a Big Mac at McDonalds.

 

If you're not comfortable about having sex pretty quickly, it isn't fun and natural.

 

Just because we don't want the Big Mac on the 3rd date when watching a movie, doesn't mean we are "16 yr old virgins".

No, but it does mean you have some kind of hangup

 

I just sense some hostility toward those of us who move at a glacial pace towards intimacy - Mr. Rudderless (how did you come up with that name? by the way).

Indeed, I don't have any problem with having that hostility seeing as I see it as a major character flaw.

 

The name came from a song.

[Boundary Problem]

Would sex with this guy have been 'fun and natural'?

 

Perhaps it will be with some future date, but this was not the one, hence the title of the thread

 

To me, it's about compatibility. I might opine the same thing about a woman who sticks her hand down my pants inappropriately (yes, it has happened). We are individuals, not stereotypes.

 

 

I'm sorry the woman was so aggressive with you.

 

 

But back to fun and natural - all I know is that if it isn't right - it isn't right. And it just makes us feel worse if we try and force it.

 

It is so hard to put your finger on it. Maybe compatibility is the word.

 

Some people seem to have more options compatibility-wise and for those of us who are picky we just have to wait for the right situation and the right person and someone who understands that it is going to take a while - even if compatible - to get to that comfort level.

[CLC2008]

If OP is so massively fragile, do you honestly believe that someone who behaved in the way the OP described, would actually benefit her in some way?

 

If she wants to withhold sex, that is HER decision, and no one should make her feel bad because of it.

[jw90063]

It isn't fun and natural unless we are comfortable and ready to have sex. It isn't like ordering a Big Mac at McDonalds.

 

Just because we don't want the Big Mac on the 3rd date when watching a movie, doesn't mean we are "16 yr old virgins".

 

I just sense some hostility toward those of us who move at a glacial pace towards intimacy - Mr. Rudderless (how did you come up with that name? by the way).

 

Funny, Boundary Problem is what Rudderless has.

 

I think people who give it up easily feel threatened by those who have control.

 

If you're not comfortable about having sex pretty quickly, it isn't fun and natural?? :rolleyes:

[carhill]

OP, how do you view sex? My response, for myself, was predicated on the perspective of viewing sex as an expression of intimacy and love. Each of us has a differing perspective. What's yours? When two people's perspectives align, whatever they might be, the sexual activity becomes 'fun and natural', IMO.

 

Personally, I could see sex as a 'withholding' tool in an established relationship where parameters of fidelity and intimacy have been established. OTOH, in a dating situation, it (sex) merely is a personal choice. The other person is free to go without prejudice or injury if not satisfied or in agreement.

[Boundary Problem]

If OP is so massively fragile, do you honestly believe that someone who behaved in the way the OP described, would actually benefit her in some way?

 

If she wants to withhold sex, that is HER decision, and no one should make her feel bad because of it.

 

 

See I don't like the word "withhold".

 

I like the word "share".

 

And there is a language between men and women and it is an open cable line. And on any date, there are hundreds of messages/packets going back and forth.

 

How strong/wide is that cable? I leave it to the guy to know when to push and when to pull back. If he has been reading the packets coming through the cable, he should have no problem helping her feel comfortable more quickly.

 

If the non-verbal communication is the pits, then yeah she is going to "withhold" sex from him by frankly dating someone else.

[CLC2008]

OP, how do you view sex? My response, for myself, was predicated on the perspective of viewing sex as an expression of intimacy and love. Each of us has a differing perspective. What's yours? When two people's perspectives align, whatever they might be, the sexual activity becomes 'fun and natural', IMO.

 

Personally, I could see sex as a 'withholding' tool in an established relationship where parameters of fidelity and intimacy have been established. OTOH, in a dating situation, it (sex) merely is a personal choice. The other person is free to go without prejudice or injury if not satisfied or in agreement.

 

That's what I was trying to convey too.

 

They were dating, they both made choices, and that's all there is to it.

[dreamergrl]

OP, how do you view sex? My response, for myself, was predicated on the perspective of viewing sex as an expression of intimacy and love. Each of us has a differing perspective. What's yours? When two people's perspectives align, whatever they might be, the sexual activity becomes 'fun and natural', IMO.

 

I've had sex quickly and I've waited. I don't have a lifetime set preference. My best relationship was with my ex who we slept together right away. But that was then. There's been times when I felt okay to have sex, and if it didn't turn into more, grant it it sucked, but I got over it. Right now my view is that I don't want to have an attachment to someone until I know I want to be in a serious relationship.

 

Personally, I could see sex as a 'withholding' tool in an established relationship where parameters of fidelity and intimacy have been established. OTOH, in a dating situation, it (sex) merely is a personal choice. The other person is free to go without prejudice or injury if not satisfied or in agreement.

 

And he could have went. But he didn't. Instead he got piss drunk and wouldn't stop.

[CLC2008]

See I don't like the word "withhold".

 

I like the word "share".

 

I used that word in response to Rudderless's post #150, but Carhill explained it much better.

[Rudderless]

If OP is so massively fragile, do you honestly believe that someone who behaved in the way the OP described, would actually benefit her in some way?

No, but clearly she's not capable of figuring this out before it becomes painfully obvious.

If she wants to withhold sex, that is HER decision, and no one should make her feel bad because of it.

I'm not trying to make her bad because she tried to withhold sex that's ridiculous. If she makes a decision to withhold it from someone fine, just don't continue to date them and invite them over to your place.

[dreamergrl]

No, but clearly she's not capable of figuring this out before it becomes painfully obvious.

 

I'm not trying to make her bad because she tried to withhold sex that's ridiculous. If she makes a decision to withhold it from someone fine, just don't continue to date them and invite them over to your place.

 

:rolleyes:

 

And why isn't it "If he's not willing to wait to have sex, then don't date them and go over to her place and get sloppy drunk and push sex"?

 

I made the choice. I didn't force him to come over. I didn't force him to come up with the idea of movie night. He could have moved on.

[CLC2008]

No, but clearly she's not capable of figuring this out before it becomes painfully obvious.

 

I'm not trying to make her bad because she tried to withhold sex that's ridiculous. If she makes a decision to withhold it from someone fine, just don't continue to date them and invite them over to your place.

 

I haven't read the entire thread, but from my understanding, she's no longer dating him, nor has she invited him over since this "incident" occurred...

[carhill]

Right now my view is that I don't want to have an attachment to someone until I know I want to be in a serious relationship.

 

OK, you've tried other styles and perspectives and this is the current one. Describe how that works. This is really crucial. 'Knowing'. I suspect, as I do, you 'know', but what describes that dynamic to you psychologically? For me, it's a dynamic of trust and shared intimacy, like we're comfortable with, respectful of, and trust the private parts of each other. This impels my sexual side to want to share other private parts.

 

For someone else, it might be visual, sensual or even fantasy which impels their sexual side. We're all different. If the gap between perspectives is too large, one person ends up feeling 'wrong', as in something is off, generally a feeling.

[Rudderless]

:rolleyes:

And why isn't it "If he's not willing to wait to have sex, then don't date them and go over to her place and get sloppy drunk and push sex"?

 

I would have that to him had it been him posting here. But it's not him posting here it's you.

 

I made the choice. I didn't force him to come over. I didn't force him to come up with the idea of movie night. He could have moved on.

 

Yep, it's your choice. It's your choice not to stop dating someone when you have to go through a whole process of discussing how your intimacy is going to pan out before you've had any. Maybe if you do the same thing over and over again you'll get different results. That's your choice too.

[dreamergrl]

OK, you've tried other styles and perspectives and this is the current one. Describe how that works. This is really crucial. 'Knowing'. I suspect, as I do, you 'know', but what describes that dynamic to you psychologically? For me, it's a dynamic of trust and shared intimacy, like we're comfortable with, respectful of, and trust the private parts of each other. This impels my sexual side to want to share other private parts.

 

For someone else, it might be visual, sensual or even fantasy which impels their sexual side. We're all different. If the gap between perspectives is too large, one person ends up feeling 'wrong', as in something is off, generally a feeling.

 

You mean what would make me comfortable enough with someone to have sex with them?

I need to know I can trust them and be honest with them, as they with me. Being able to be myself all the way. That there is potential to go long term. I don't want to feel like a toy that someone is taking out to play with. I want something stable.

 

Grant it, I realize that I've had good and bad experiences with different paces I've been at, as far as when to have sex. But this is the pace I want to be at now, and it works best with my mindset. If a guy doesn't want to wait at this time, then he's free to move on. There's no need to pretend to be okay with it, and really not be.

[dreamergrl]

I would have that to him had it been him posting here. But it's not him posting here it's you.

 

 

 

Yep, it's your choice. It's your choice not to stop dating someone when you have to go through a whole process of discussing how your intimacy is going to pan out before you've had any. Maybe if you do the same thing over and over again you'll get different results. That's your choice too.

 

Oh excuse me, for having a conversation about boundaries, in which he started.

 

I WOULD have been leading him on if I didn't tell him. And I find that wrong. I'd rather be honest. I don't want to waste a guy's time, them thinking sex is just around the corner, when it's not.

[Rudderless]

Oh excuse me, for having a conversation about boundaries, in which he started.

 

I WOULD have been leading him on if I didn't tell him. And I find that wrong. I'd rather be honest. I don't want to waste a guy's time, them thinking sex is just around the corner, when it's not.

 

You weren't leading him on at all, you were expecting him to have a huge amount of patience with you while you figured out when (actually if, but I doubt you'll admit that) you were going to have sex with him. I suspect most guys will do the decent thing and walk off, unfortunately this one appears to be quite agreeable, probably quite a nice guy on the outside.

 

I'm pretty sure if you keep doing this you'll eventually find that guy, I mean, that sounds much simpler than going out and dating until you meet a guy where the whole I must have deep trust for you before we have sex issue isn't really an issue.

[Rudderless]

It is so hard to put your finger on it. Maybe compatibility is the word.

 

Some people seem to have more options compatibility-wise and for those of us who are picky we just have to wait for the right situation and the right person and someone who understands that it is going to take a while - even if compatible - to get to that comfort level.

Have you ever considered that if you feel like this you actually have a sexual issue and should go and talk it through with a counsellor?

 

You're basically telling me in sexual terms that you can't walk.

 

This isn't about being picky, being picky is about choosing who you are going to sleep with. You can be as selective as you like. Being "easy" is nothing to do with what I'm talking about. It's simply being able to function normally as an adult.

 

Put it this way, why should someone else have to feel undesirable just because you have to go through a whole process of having to be eased into something that really shouldn't be a problem as an adult? If it's trust issues, it's time to realise that everybody takes a risk and stop talking the default position of people being guilty before innocent. If it's because of your past get over it and stop punishing others for it. If it's something to do with your body or bits and bob, sort it out.

 

This is sexually unhealthy and detrimental towards your well being. Trying to justify it by thinking that you'll meet someone with infinitely patient true love and one sided strength in vulnerability is unrealistic - although I have seen this happen on here before and those people never seem to realise just how lucky they've been to have continued with their stubborness for it to work out.

[dreamergrl]

But if I would have slept with him just because I found him sexually desirable up to that point.. before he got all weird (and I'm not just talking about pushing sex), it may have taken longer to find out he's got some obvious issues. He would have gotten what he wanted. And the other stuff could have taken longer to come out. But what I did was unhealthy?

 

This is why I think there is no right or wrong answer to when to have sex. It needs to feel right for both people involved.

[Kamille]

I've had sex after four dates and I've also found myself waiting a month before sleeping with someone.

 

My point is that I, like Dreamer, don't have a set scenario when it comes to having sex later rather then earlier.

 

And you know what? No matter the amount of time that elapses between starting to date and having sex, the most satisfying sex always happens when I know I trust my partner. When I don't have to wonder if he's going to think less of me the day after or whatever. In fact, since my late 20s, I make it a rule not to sleep with a guy unless I feel ready to sleep with him. Guess what Rudderless? My love life has improved 10 folds since then and I never encountered a guy who thought I had sexual hang ups because of that. Au contraire, they all seem to think it showed maturity on my part and it made establishing relationships that much more smoother for both my partners and I.

 

And none of them assumed it meant I wasn't attracted to them. I don't even understand the logic behind that statement. There is nothing I love more then letting sexual anticipation rise as I get to know my partner.

 

So I'm very glad, Dreamer, that you've decided to wait until that moment when you know you're into a guy 100% - and a guy is into you- before you sleep with him.

 

It has nothing to do with being patient or having some issues with sex or whatever. My experience is that most men understand waiting until the time is right and that most respect women all the more for ensuring there is trust and communication before getting naked.

 

I have found, however, that this discernment when it comes to getting naked also comes with showing discernment as to how to date. Keeping the dates out of private settings until you know you're ready to sleep with the guy is definitely part of showing respect for both your partner and yourself - so I'm glad you've also decided to try it out.

Edited December 2, 2009 by Kamille

[dreamergrl]

Thanks K Even if I'm not in a relationship or am currently dating, I feel good about how I'm approaching my dating life. The right guy will come along at some point. Until then, I'm happy with what I'm doing