crush

[shadowplay]

How emotionally mature are guys at the age of 21-22?

[kizik]

How emotionally mature are guys at the age of 21-22?

 

Are you serious?

 

Some are, some aren't. You could start a thread on it and get real no answers.

 

The question is if YOU are emotionally mature enough to date right now.

[shadowplay]

I'm really having a hard time bringing up the space conversation with him at this point.

 

First off, I like him quite a bit, but evidently not as much as he likes me. I like him enough to want to be in a relationship with him, at least for the short term. Oh, and he's not as much of a pothead as I originally thought. I think

only smokes a few times a week.

 

But I also feel kind of trapped, because of some of the things he's been saying. Last night he said "I'm so glad I met you," and "You're the best thing that's happened to me in years." Also, I didn't see him the night before last, but did the night before that, and he said to me, "I missed you so much last night."

 

I really can't stand the idea of hurting him, because I already care about him a lot. He's a really great guy, and I don't say that lightly. He's super decent, intelligent, reflective. I feel almost obligated to stay with him for at least a few months.

 

I asked him if he had had other girlfriends and he said "not in years." I asked him why, and he said that it hasn't worked out because he's switched schools a bunch of times. Then he added "Also most girls f-ckin SUCK. But not you, you rule."

 

But yeah, I'm starting to feel like he's too clingy. I think I'd be falling hard for him if he were just a bit less, so it's unfortunate. It's just so weird because I would have never expected him to be like this. To the rest of the world he comes off as fairly laid-back and confident.

[donnamaybe]

You're going to sabotage this whole thing.

 

He seems like a nice guy. You were the one interested enough to make a move. Now that you "have" him and he's being honest with you instead of playing some kind of emotional chess game you're losing interest. I have seen so many threads on here with questions about how a person is supposed to "act" at varying stages of dating and relationships with advice about pretending not to be interested and playing hard to get. Why would someone want an act? You have before you a guy who isn't into game playing. That's rare these days.

[kizik]

I also feel kind of trapped, because of some of the things he's been saying. Last night he said "I'm so glad I met you," and "You're the best thing that's happened to me in years." ...

"I missed you so much last night."

 

This guy... what a dork. I've seen your picture, shadow, and you're cute enough not to be dating someone who's such a Stage Five Klingon.

 

he added "Also most girls f-ckin SUCK. But not you, you rule."

 

And right there he did you the courtesy of showing his misogynistic side.

 

I'm starting to feel like he's too clingy.

 

Ya think?

 

[SadandConfusedWA]

I think that shadow is used to emotionally unavailable men and men that she can admire from afar. Some emotional distance helps her develop feelings. She needs to wonder, reflect and analyze and with this guy everything is so straight forward that it's non-interesting. Having said all that, he is coming on too strong and just by the sounds of it, I would bail too (but then again I have a problem of being attracted to emotionally unavailable men). Sounds like the amount of contact they are having would be appropriate for a couple that have been together for a while and are in love.

 

This is a pity since if this guy took things more slowly and kept a bit of mystery going, situation would have worked out quite nicely. But things being as they are I only see the gap between how strongly he feels and how strongly she feels getting bigger and shadow feeling increasingly trapped. Perhaps it's an inherent incompatibility as in this guy needs constant contact and time together while she needs more space.

[shadowplay]

This guy... what a dork. I've seen your picture, shadow, and you're cute enough not to be dating someone who's such a Stage Five Klingon

 

What's a stage five Klingon? Also I can see clingy, but how is he a dork? Lol.

[shadowplay]

You're going to sabotage this whole thing.

 

He seems like a nice guy. You were the one interested enough to make a move. Now that you "have" him and he's being honest with you instead of playing some kind of emotional chess game you're losing interest. I have seen so many threads on here with questions about how a person is supposed to "act" at varying stages of dating and relationships with advice about pretending not to be interested and playing hard to get. Why would someone want an act? You have before you a guy who isn't into game playing. That's rare these days.

 

I agree, but don't you think the strength of his feelings are a little inappropriate for the amount of time we've been dating (10-11 days)?

[kizik]

What's a stage five Klingon?

 

Someone needs to catch up on their Wedding Crashers.

 

And listen to SadandConfusedWA, she knows the score.

[donnamaybe]

I agree, but don't you think the strength of his feelings are a little inappropriate for the amount of time we've been dating (10-11 days)?

 

He hasn't used the "L" word yet, has he?

 

He loves being with you. That's a good thing, IMO.

[kizik]

Shadow:

 

a relationship that takes off like a rocket

 

crashes like a rocket, too.

[donnamaybe]

Shadow:

 

a relationship that takes off like a rocket

 

crashes like a rocket, too.

 

There are rarely any absolutes in relationships and love.

[the beholder]

calm down... just tell him you want to slow things down. you shouldn't be sure that the guy is clingy - I mean its only been a few days you've been dating. I think the guy is trying to be decent coz there are those kinds who ditch the girls after they sleep with them and he's tryin overly hard not to appear so. You can't take each and every statement he makes to the core - life is not a movie with all brushed up dialogues. He's trying to show he appriciates you but seems to fall behind due to some overly exaggerated expressions. you must know most of the guys are't smooth talkers.

[Stockalone]

But yeah, I'm starting to feel like he's too clingy. I think I'd be falling hard for him if he were just a bit less, so it's unfortunate. It's just so weird because I would have never expected him to be like this. To the rest of the world he comes off as fairly laid-back and confident.

 

I agree, but don't you think the strength of his feelings are a little inappropriate for the amount of time we've been dating (10-11 days)?

 

I am not surprised that you now feel that he is (too) clingy.

 

I understand why you think his strong feelings seem odd and why they make you "suspicious" (I am not sure if that is a word you would use in this situation) given the short amount of time you know each other and also considering how little you know about each other. After such a short time, there are so many things still to be discovered and learned about each other.

 

There are obviously plenty of pitfalls waiting for someone who invests so much so soon. And I fear that most relationships like this will end pretty soon.

 

That said, there are no guarantees for a lasting relationship, no matter how you start out. So I believe that despite all of this, a healthy relationship can develop that is based on real compatibility and mutual respect (and later love) and not just initial perceptions (fantasies if you will) and lust.

 

To borrow a line from a song:

 

"With her first hello, she brought new meaning to this empty world of mine."

 

I don't know if that is how your guy feels but it's how I'd describe one, actually two, encounters I had with women. It is an exaggeration, but not by much.

 

 

Why would someone want an act? You have before you a guy who isn't into game playing. That's rare these days.

 

I obviously can't speak for Shadow but I think it's obvious that she feels overwhelmed and is irritated by his behaviour. What she sees obviously doesn't match the perception she had about this guy. His behaviour just doesn't match that of a laid-back and confident guy.

 

I think this is really telling:

 

I really can't stand the idea of hurting him, because I already care about him a lot. He's a really great guy, and I don't say that lightly. He's super decent, intelligent, reflective. I feel almost obligated to stay with him for at least a few months.

 

Shadow, do you feel obligated because you think that if he moves so fast, you have to follow suit? That is exactly the problem I was referring to in an earlier post when I said this guy's behaviour makes many women feel pressured.

 

It's one thing if you are turned off by him, if how he acts is not what you need from a man. In that case, he might simply be not the right guy for you. That doesn't mean you only like emotionally unavailable men. Plenty of men are confident, yet also emotionally available. That doesn't have to be mutually exclusive.

 

However, if your "only" (albeit huge) concern is that you feel cornered, and ultimately dragged along, without being really sure about this relationship, you need to ask him for a slower pace.

 

That wouldn't be an outrageous request. And he might be able to give you that. But you have to ask for it, you can't expect him to slow down on his own.

 

There are also other questions that come to mind:

 

1. Do you think you'd ever be comfortable with being at the center of his attentions, constantly having so much focus on you?

 

2. Do you feel that it makes him weak (less of a man) to act like he does?

 

3. What would you want him to do?

 

 

... a Stage Five Klingon.

 

Are you sure it isn't "a stage five clinger". I don't see how Klingon makes sense in this context, but maybe it does if you have seen the movie.

 

 

And right there he did you the courtesy of showing his misogynistic side.

 

I think it depends on how he said it. But yes, I think she should take note of that and find out what prompted him to say that.

Edited December 14, 2009 by Stockalone

[shadowplay]

I am not surprised that you now feel that he is (too) clingy.

 

I understand why you think his strong feelings seem odd and why they make you "suspicious" (I am not sure if that is a word you would use in this situation) given the short amount of time you know each other and also considering how little you know about each other. After such a short time, there are so many things still to be discovered and learned about each other.

 

 

Exactly. When somebody is clingy or invests too soon, part of the turnoff is that I feel like they're not really appreciating me for me. I'm either interchangeable with almost any girl (because they're lonely and anyone would do) or they're filling in the blanks of my personality to fit some unrealistic fantasy.

 

There are obviously plenty of pitfalls waiting for someone who invests so much so soon. And I fear that most relationships like this will end pretty soon.

That said, there are no guarantees for a lasting relationship, no matter how you start out. So I believe that despite all of this, a healthy relationship can develop that is based on real compatibility and mutual respect (and later love) and not just initial perceptions (fantasies if you will) and lust.

 

 

I hope you're right. I'm not ready to give up on this because he's a great guy aside from the clinginess. I just wish there was a way of broaching the subject without really hurting his feelings.

 

 

To borrow a line from a song:

 

"With her first hello, she brought new meaning to this empty world of mine."

 

I don't know if that is how your guy feels but it's how I'd describe one, actually two, encounters I had with women. It is an exaggeration, but not by much.

 

 

What caused this kind of reaction on your part? What usually causes a guy to invest so soon?

 

 

Shadow, do you feel obligated because you think that if he moves so fast, you have to follow suit? That is exactly the problem I was referring to in an earlier post when I said this guy's behaviour makes many women feel pressured.

 

 

Yeah, that's the main thing. I feel like he's setting the pace of the relationship, a pace that's way too fast for me as my feelings haven't yet caught up.

 

 

It's one thing if you are turned off by him, if how he acts is not what you need from a man. In that case, he might simply be not the right guy for you. That doesn't mean you only like emotionally unavailable men. Plenty of men are confident, yet also emotionally available. That doesn't have to be mutually exclusive.

 

However, if your "only" (albeit huge) concern is that you feel cornered, and ultimately dragged along, without being really sure about this relationship, you need to ask him for a slower pace.

 

That wouldn't be an outrageous request. And he might be able to give you that. But you have to ask for it, you can't expect him to slow down on his own.

 

 

Yep, you're right. Any suggestions on how to broach it in a tactful way?

 

 

There are also other questions that come to mind:

 

1. Do you think you'd ever be comfortable with being at the center of his attentions, constantly having so much focus on you?

[quote

 

2. Do you feel that it makes him weak (less of a man) to act like he does?

 

3. What would you want him to do?

 

 

1. I think I'm OK with that. The space issue is more what bugs me. I like having some time to myself. At this point I'd be comfortable with seeing him like 3 times a week, and he seems to want to see me every day. On the days when he doesn't, he talks about how much he misses me. I've started making excuses not to see him, but I feel like he'll catch on eventually. Also, he knows how free my schedule will be over winter break.

 

2. Honestly, maybe a bit. Though I feel like if I understood the reason why he was investing so soon (like maybe something from his past), I'd be more sympathetic.

 

3. I want something in between. I feel like all the guys I've dated have fallen at either extreme. I want him to be very interested, but in a healthy, normal way. I want him to respect my space.

 

Thanks again for your insights! I always appreciate them.

[the beholder]

Exactly. When somebody is clingy or invests too soon, part of the turnoff is that I feel like they're not really appreciating me for me. I'm either interchangeable with almost any girl (because they're lonely and anyone would do) or they're filling in the blanks of my personality to fit some unrealistic fantasy.

 

 

 

I hope you're right. I'm not ready to give up on this because he's a great guy aside from the clinginess. I just wish there was a way of broaching the subject without really hurting his feelings.

 

 

 

What caused this kind of reaction on your part? What usually causes a guy to invest so soon?

 

 

 

Yeah, that's the main thing. I feel like he's setting the pace of the relationship, a pace that's way too fast for me as my feelings haven't yet caught up.

maybe he's moving fast because you asked him to be exclusive within your 3rd/4th date and he thinks it is what you want. just tell him you want to slow things down until both of you know each other much deeply.

[donnamaybe]

maybe he's moving fast because you asked him to be exclusive within your 3rd/4th date and he thinks it is what you want. just tell him you want to slow things down until both of you know each other much deeply.

 

True. I forgot about that. Talk about mixed signals!

[shadowplay]

True. I forgot about that. Talk about mixed signals!

 

Yeah, that was a mistake. I mean, I DO want a relationship with him, but I should have waited on the talk. So I sent him mixed signals. I guess the adage "be careful what you wish for...." applies.

 

For some reason today I've been feeling better about the amount of attention he's giving me. Maybe it's because I'm out of town for a few days so I have some space. I have to admit I'd rather a guy be over attentive than the opposite extreme. I think I'm going to give him a chance.

 

If things stay at this pace, I'll probably be OK. If it starts to accelerate, I'll bring up the space talk. I think I just need to assert my space when I need it. Maybe I don't have to turn it into a huge general discussion. I can just be like "I'm busy tonight, can we see each other tomorrow?"

 

As an aside, I was facebook stalking him last night (heh) and reading through some of his wall posts. I noticed that most of his friends would write hyperbolic things to him like "I miss you SO MUCH!!!" so maybe it's just a generation clash. His (I presume) ex girlfriend put a ton of posts on his wall of that nature when they were together. Maybe that's just the way youngins talk these days, or at least how people in his circle do. Personally, I'm a lot more reserved and I almost never express strong feelings unless I've known someone for a long time.

[donnamaybe]

I can just be like "I'm busy tonight, can we see each other tomorrow?"

 

Exactly! And if he turns into a big jerk when you say something like that it would be a HUGE red flag. If, however, he simply says he'll miss being with you, I would be touched at the sentiment. That would mean he WANTS to be with you but doesn't want to control you. Isn't that what it's all about?

 

It would be a shame to toss him when he just MIGHT be a great guy for you. Give it all a little time and see.

[threebyfate]

shadow, he sounds young and inexperienced with relationships. This in combination with being the creative type, he's throwing everything he's got into this, right out the gate. But it's true that unintentionally, you've misled him to believe you're more invested, due to the exclusivity discussion, so soon.

 

I would advise caution in proceeding. If you pull back now without letting him understand what's going on with you, you're going to trigger his insecurities.

 

"Hey you, while seeing you everyday has been amazing, I can't get things done in my life that need to be done. Can we slow the pace down a bit, to every other day or three times a week or something? This way, I don't get stressed out not getting other things done. What do you think?"

 

Be careful not to create a push/pull dynamic. And yet I wonder, are you certain this isn't what makes you feel comfortable?

[threebyfate]

I was thinking about the push/pull dynamic a bit more.

 

What it does is cause fear of loss, hence creates a hook to the emotions. The deeper the hook is set, the more pull it has on the individual.

 

But...

 

What it also does, is that it kills trust and respect, which are both key ingredients to having a viable long-term relationship. It's rare that trust and respect lost, can ever be regained.

 

That's why PUA techniques can work on people but rarely evolves to a meaningful relationship.

[Stockalone]

True. I forgot about that. Talk about mixed signals!

 

Shadow wanted to make sure that they talk about exclusivity before having sex.

 

That however, has certainly played a part in how fast the whole relationship developed. But if she had said nothing, and didn't have the talk, she might be wondering now too.

 

 

Yeah, that was a mistake. I mean, I DO want a relationship with him, but I should have waited on the talk. So I sent him mixed signals. I guess the adage "be careful what you wish for...." applies.

 

You shouldn't second-guess yourself here. If you want exclusivity before you have sex, the only other option to the talk is to wait longer before you have sex.

 

 

For some reason today I've been feeling better about the amount of attention he's giving me. Maybe it's because I'm out of town for a few days so I have some space. I have to admit I'd rather a guy be over attentive than the opposite extreme. I think I'm going to give him a chance.

 

It really is too soon to bail.

 

 

If things stay at this pace, I'll probably be OK. If it starts to accelerate, I'll bring up the space talk. I think I just need to assert my space when I need it. Maybe I don't have to turn it into a huge general discussion. I can just be like "I'm busy tonight, can we see each other tomorrow?"

 

If you only need a day here and there, that is normal. Even a clingy guy can deal with that.

 

And I agree with Donna. If he let's you know that he misses you, that is something you shouldn't mind. I thought you guys liked it when we let you know that we miss you. Unless he starts calling you every few minutes, I think you will be fine.

 

 

As an aside, I was facebook stalking him last night (heh) and reading through some of his wall posts. I noticed that most of his friends would write hyperbolic things to him like "I miss you SO MUCH!!!" so maybe it's just a generation clash. His (I presume) ex girlfriend put a ton of posts on his wall of that nature when they were together. Maybe that's just the way youngins talk these days, or at least how people in his circle do. Personally, I'm a lot more reserved and I almost never express strong feelings unless I've known someone for a long time.

 

 

If he seems genuine with his compliments, it just means he is different from you in that regard. That's not necessarily bad. As long as he is honest with you, I think it's good. It can help you determine where you stand with him.

 

 

 

I'll answer two questions from your previous post, but I also don't want to sidetrack you, now that you feel better about the relationship again. I'll try to not write a novel.

 

 

What caused this kind of reaction on your part?

 

The way they made me feel. I felt understood and respected, taken care of but also challenged.

 

I admired those women. They were very smart, caring/compassionate and at the same time, had no problem kicking my ass when I was doubting myself or hiding behind my fears and doubts. They simply wouldn't let me. I sometimes wondered if they knew me better than I knew myself. They were strong for me when I needed them.

 

They also turned to me when they needed help and they weren't afraid to show their weaknesses and talk about their fears.

 

I felt at ease around them. Missing an opportunity like that was just not an option, especially when you hardly ever meet a woman that captivates your attention with such ease.

 

If you play, you should play to win. Give it everything you got and hope that it'll be enough. If it's not, then there are at least no (or only a few, because you'll never be perfect) regrets.

 

I also think that TBF is on to something. Limited relationship experience is certainly true in my case. The first woman was the first woman I ever dated and the second one was someone I met after not having dated in years.

 

 

Yep, you're right. Any suggestions on how to broach it in a tactful way?

 

Just keep him in the loop about why you do things, maybe open up about your fears if you are comfortable enough already. Just let him know that he is still involved in the process, even if you only inform him.

 

If you want to explain it to him, you could say something like that.

 

"I enjoy the time we spend together very much. But I also need some time to take care of other things that require my time and attention (school, work, even mundane things like doing household chores, etc.). When I need a day for myself, it doesn't mean I don't want to see you. It's just that when I spend a lot of my time with you, those things won't get done and that stresses me out. Two or three days a week would really help me to focus on getting those things done and then I can enjoy our time together even more without having to worry about that stuff anymore."

[threebyfate]

Stock, I see you and shadow's man, as different. You have a maturity level I'm not seeing in this guy, based on what shadow's posted.

 

This guy has the makings of one of the bitter misogynists on LS, if she mishandles him, where all women are crap due to one rejection.

 

"She's a bitch, as all women are bitches. I put my all into the relationship and she blew me off. It's the story of my life (yeah, all twenty-one years of it, with no relationship experience beyond a potential STR. )".

 

Where realistically speaking, it might be a combination of issues:

1. This guy is over-whelming. I suspect she feels like he's made her responsible. Being "all in" in a balanced way, doesn't mean an emotional tsunami.
   
2. Shadow might be confusing fear of loss with love, since fear is a strong emotion and cuts to everyone's core.
   

[shadowplay]

 

What it also does, is that it kills trust and respect, which are both key ingredients to having a viable long-term relationship. It's rare that trust and respect lost, can ever be regained.

 

That's why PUA techniques can work on people but rarely evolves to a meaningful relationship.

 

Yeah, exactly. With my ex I was hooked but there was no trust in part because of the push pull. On a deep level I didn't even respect him, yet I stuck around because of the fear of loss.

 

I think a push pull does hook me in, but it also leads to unhappiness. At the beginning of the relationship with my ex, I was constantly in a state of anxiety, wondering why he wasn't calling me more often.

 

Coincidentally, I haven't heard from S since early this morning (in response to a text I sent him late last night) when he sent a text that said "I miss you a ridiculous amount. I wish it could just be Thursday so I could see you." He knows I'm away, and he was traveling to take a certification test today. But because this is unusual for him, I'm already starting to feel uncomfortable and confused. Strange, but I already notice myself emotionally divesting a bit as a defense, assuming he's less interested. I've gotten too good at shutting off my feelings preemptively at the slightest trigger. Hmmm...

 

I guess I do enjoy the attention, because when it's taken away I get uneasy. But I absolutely hate inconsistency. Even if it hooks me in out of fear, it makes me devalue the other person and feel resentful.

Edited December 15, 2009 by shadowplay

[donnamaybe]

You can't have it both ways. It sounds like any guy is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.