A lie is a lie is a lie...

[bloodsarover]

This is my first time dealing with this sort of thing, so let me apologize in advance for my long post. I just need to get this all out and get some feedback for other people who have been in this situation.

 

I have been dating this girl for almost a year. We met at school; she is 23 and I am 31. I love everything about her and we've been talking about getting engaged. Except I'm concerned that she's been cheating on me, talking to and meeting with her ex behind my back... Now let me preface this with I don't mind that she talks to her ex on special occasions. I have absolutely no issue with her telling him Happy Easter and calling him on his b-day. I know they've been friends a long time and I don't expect her to just sever all communications with him. On the other hand, I do expect that their contact is less, since they've been broken up for almost a year. Add to that that they work together (in separate departments) and see each other once a week, I don't see any reason for weekly contact outside of that. Here goes...

 

About three weeks ago, when I was on my way home from school, she mentioned her ex had called her. Something about one of the guys they worked with needed to get ahold of her and didn't have her cell number. So the guy called her ex, her ex called her. I know her ex wants to get back with her, which I am sure is why he didn't give the other guy my gf's phone number to call her directly. Why my gf didn't tell her ex to give her the number and piss off is beyond me... Anyway, I was fine with that - it seemed like a work thing and all was cool. Until, I happened to notice when she was making a call one day that she actually called him. She said it was because he called twice (which was true) and she was calling him back so he'd stop calling. I explained to her that that seemed unnecessary, as he didn't leave a v-mail, so it couldn't have been anything urgent. She agreed and we went on about our day. Needless to say, I still thought the whole thing seemed a little off..

 

About two weeks ago, I needed to look something up online and she offered her phone up to me. I unlocked her phone (we both have iPhones, no passwords) and noticed that recent calls were blank. I asked her what happened to her phone and she said that she'd restored it and it wiped her phone calls out. Not thinking anything of it, I went on about looking up something for school. Later in the day, I recalled that she'd not had her computer on in awhile. Thinking back on the previous incident, I wanted to see if my gut feeling was just me being ridiculous or there was cause for concern. I went and got her laptop out and she said, "Wow, I haven't used that in awhile." I said, "Um, you used it earlier this week to restore your iPhone, remember" She replies, "Oh yeah" and my nerves get prickly. I, being pretty technical, drill out into the O/S and notice that her laptop hadn't been on in a month. I said, "I thought you used this to restore your phone the other day?" She says, "Oh...I must've forgotten that I used a computer at school." I said, "So, let me get this straight - you can't remember what you did with your phone/laptop two days ago?" Now, let me insert here that her Mac and her iPhone are her "babies", so needless to say I was really anxious at that point, but let it go. She says, "Yeah, I must've forgotten and mixed things up. Sorry for the misunderstanding." I still think it all sounds sketchy, but I go ahead and let things lie.

 

Fast-forward to Tuesday of this week...I am usually in class till 10PM at night. I wind up getting out of class early and am planning to get something to eat. She had a work thing that evening that was supposed to go to 7:30 (meeting at a client site) and she hadn't called; I just assumed that it ran over. I call her cell as I usually do, no answer. So, I figure she's still at this client meeting and I'll drive to this place over by her work and get dinner. This way, she can come meet me when she gets back and we can have dinner together. I get to stop light on the road before the entrance to her place of employement and see her car is still there. I knew she road with the boss and don't see her bosses car in the lot, so I assumed I was right and they're still at this meeting. While I'm waiting for the light to change, I see her ex's car pull up beside hers...Now, I'm rabidly angry... About two minutes later, my phone rings and she tells me she was at Borders having coffee and reading books and just got back to her car and she didn't hear her phone vibrate in her purse. I know I can't be civil, so I just keep my mouth shut and talk to her like nothing is up. She tells me she'll see me at my apartment in a bit and I tell her OK. I get home and she's already inside (she has a key) and tells me she missed me a lot and she's so happy to see me, because it had been a long day. I go into the kitchen to get a drink and turn around and say to her, "Are you sure you were at Borders?" She says, "Yeah, why?" I said, "That's odd...I was omw to dinner at X and when I got to the light, I still saw your car in the lot at work." She said, "...oh yeah, I went to Borders after the meeting, then I went back to work to run in and do my paperwork really quick. You know how my boss is a stickler for all the notes being in his Inbox in the morning. I figured since you were at school, I'd just go ahead and punch that out, so I would have to fool with it after you got home." I said, "Really, then you want to explain why I saw your ex's car start the same time yours unlocked?" She gets this awkward look on her face and she says, "Well, he got done working for the day at the same point I was leaving and we ran into each other at the entrance. It was dark, and he offered to walk me to my car." Now mind you, at this point I know she's lying to me again, so I just let her sit with that and say, "I see." She can tell I'm upset, so she wants to sit down and talk and goes on this diatribe about how she lied to me and didn't tell me she'd see her ex because I get pissed everytime I know he's called. Which really isn't the case - I get annoyed and explain that I wish he would leave her alone - which is exactly what she says (along with the fact that he's an a**hole) every time he calls her. I tell her this and she then goes into another diatribe about how it was a stupid thing to do and she's sorry and she shouldn't of lied to me...and how all her relationships have been f'd up, and she hates conflict and she didn't want to upset me...blah, blah, blah... I know she's just trying to get me to have sympathy for her, so I just sit and listen.

 

The next morning, I get up and start working on some homework and she comes out about an hour later. I say to her, "You know, I was thinking about this and I don't recall seeing the two of you walking out to your cars while I was waiting for the light to change. In fact, there were no cars near you. Your ex's car pulled up next to yours as the light changed." She says, "I don't know what you think you saw, but I was telling you the truth last night. We ran into each other, he walked me out, we talked in the lot for a few minutes and then we both left." I said, "So, there would be no reason for me to see you getting out of his car?" She said (slightly annoyed), "No." I said, "Good, then give me your cell phone." She hands it to me and asks why, "I said, because if you're telling the truth and I'm just being paranoid, we should be able to verify that with one simple text message." I get about half way through setting up the message, and she grabs her phone and says, "We went and had coffee after I got back." I was so mad at that point, I think I went temporarily deaf. I said, "So, let me get this straight. You lie to me about this not once, but three times...you go see your ex behind my back...and now you want to tell me you just went and had coffee with him and I'm supposed to believe that?" She said, "Look, I did it for us. He asked me to go because he wanted to sit down and talk. I figured it'd be a good time for me to tell him directly to stop calling me." I said, "That's really odd, as I'd think you see him at work and could do this inside of 5 mins. It doesn't require coffee, or even a face to face. If you REALLY loathe this guy and the f'd up way he treated you so much, why wouldn't you have just called him or sent him an e-mail? Be clear, I'm not so much mad that you met with him, I'm angry that you lied and did all this behind my back, rather than being forthright about it." So, she starts crying and tells me how stupid it all was of her and that she loves me and she'll do ANYTHING to keep us together. That she wants to spend the rest of her life with me and that's all that is important. We pretty much spend the rest of the day not talking to each other and the next day, we talk some more. I explain to her how she's really hurt me, how I feel like I've treated her with complete respect and always done things to show her how much I love her and ask her what I've done to deserve to be disrespected like this? She tells me she doesn't know and keeps says how she was so stupid and that I, "don't understand how upset she is at herself over all this and that she wishes she were dead and she doesn't know how she'd be able to go on without me in her life." Needless to say, I'm taken aback by the end of that comment and now my anger has turned to concern. Mind you she could've just been trying to gain sympathy again, but when someone you care for very much for talks about killing themselves, it tends to make you switch gears. Nonetheless, the conversation ends at that point with me saying, "I really don't even know what to say to you at this point."

 

Anyway, all this has gotten me pretty twisted up inside. I mean, there is NO WAY I'm getting engaged to her anytime soon. But, I still care for her a lot and I'm so hurt and angry and feel so betrayed that I really don't know what to do. I feel like I now am starting to second-guess everything she does and I don't want to have to feel like a "cop", policing her every move to feel secure in the relationship. I really don't know how to work through this, at this point...

 

Thanks for listening and your inputs.

[Bryanp]

You totally busted her. It is good that you are not thinking of getting engaged. She has shown you quite clearly that she has absolutely no problem lying to your face. From what you have written it seems there is a very good chance that she is cheating with her ex. If the roles were reversed she would probably be beyond angry. From what you have written it seems she has never gotten over her ex. The ability for her to continue to lie to your face indicates that she probably has a broken moral compass. Do you really want to be with someone who has such little respect for you that she has no problem lying to your face time and again? You judge a person by their actions and not by their words and her actions speak volumes. Her actions indicate that she has little respect for you and your relationship. If you do not respect yourself then who will?

[LucreziaBorgia]

but when someone you care for very much for talks about killing themselves, it tends to make you switch gears

 

That's why they do it. I used to say stuff like this all the time back in my 'cheater' days. It sounds cynical and mean, but hey - it works, right?

 

I've even seen where people would swear on the lives of their children that 'things aren't what you think' and so on.

 

There is no low that a cheater won't go to in order to keep the status quo sometimes.

 

Honestly, I wouldn't get engaged to someone like this much less marry them. There are plenty of women out there who you won't have to worry about this way. It may take some time to find one and learn to trust and love again in general, but it sure is worth it in the long run.

[norajane]

It sounds like it's time for a break-up. You can't trust anything she says, and she can't stop lying about her ex. She's on the verge of cheating and you won't be able to stop checking up on her from here on out because you know she's still got a thing for him and he does for her.

 

Is that the kind of relationship you want to be in? You both need to get out of this relationship before things get really, really ugly. It's certainly not going to get better.

 

ETA: And no, she's not going to kill herself! She's much more likely to just start dating her ex again. Which is what she's actually already doing and lying about it.

Edited November 22, 2009 by norajane

[jerseyboy]

Damn Bro feel for you.

 

Save yourself some heartache man.

 

Plus I dont believe either her motivation or what has transpired between them. Shes full of crap. Shes cheating.

 

And do you really want to be that guy, the one who has to play Sherlock Holmes with this woman?

 

Next her. Pay the price in pain now, itll be cheaper in the long run by far.

[lostsunsets]

Tell her what this has cost her. Tell her that any future you had (ie marriage) has been set back to square one, from all the lies she has told you. At this point its a polygraph or the dumpster with her.

[Toki]

It's a vicious cycle, and if you feel like it can't be saved, don't save it. She's clearly not matured enough to understand that when you begin a new relationship, you need to end the one you had before. It's an amateurish mistake, and if she's lying about this, she'll lie to you about anything. Since, the foundation of her resolve to do right by you, has been severely compromised from the beginning. If not for your own mental health, and sense of well being, I'd say leave her so that she knows that there has to be an equal and opposition reaction to her actions; she wants the danger (her ex) and the stability (you), let her know she's played with fire, and it burns. If she says she's going to kill herself, give her a card to call a psych-ward, or a suicide hot-line, her burden is not, and should not be yours to bear, and its a last ditch excuse (maybe even an outright lie in itself) for someone whose in a sinking emotional ship.

 

My two cents anyways.

Edited November 22, 2009 by Toki

[imagine]

I don't know how things work for you there, but in my book an ex never speaks to past lovers without their B/F present.

 

So now that you have proved her unreliable, what is your next action. Discussion or rejection?

[looking4 green grass]

Any time in the past, if my spidey sense has gone off about a partner, it has been for good reason. Listen to yours. If your gut says something is off with her and something about your gf and her ex is not quite right, it probably isn't.

 

It sounds to me like she is one of those girls who needs to feel like every man on the planet wants her. I've been with guys who are the same way. I've never been able to stick it out for the long term with them as I rather have someone I could completely trust.

 

It sounds like it's time for you to really think about what you want and need in a relationship and if this girl really fits what you're looking for. I would personally talk to her, ask her to cut it off completely, give her a few weeks, and if she didn't, say adios. At some point she has to decide who is more important, you or the ex. I know you want to be nice, but don't let yourself be a doormat. Right now, you have muddy footprints all over your forehead.

[seibert253]

Pretty simple.

You don't trust her, tell her. "I've caught you in many lies lately, all dealing with your ex. I no longer trust you".

"The issue with erasing the call history on your phone, I sorry I do not believe you". "I think you erased this because you've been speaking with your ex and didn't want me to know this". "If this is the case, then IMO you've been cheating on me, I will not tolarate this".

 

Now give her ONE opportunity to come clean:

"I'm giving you one, and only one opportunity to tell me the truth. I've done my homework and I KNOW what you've been doing". (Bluff). "I love you and want to work through this, but I will not unless you are totally truthful and honest with me".

 

See what she does and says. If she comes clean, you may have an opportunity to work through this. If she doen't, then it's time for her to go.

 

Keep us updated.

[lkjh]

You caught her red-handed. She isn't over her ex and I doubt it stopped at coffee

[bloodsarover]

Thanks to all for your inputs'.

 

We sat down and talked a bit and I pretty much told her that if she wants me to trust her, she should tell me the truth about EVERYTHING that has ever happened with her ex since her and I have been together. She told me nothing, so I asked her (for the third time) if she would give me her cell account number. She asked me why and I point blank told her because I have no trust in her. Along with that, I very directly explained that we're all done talking about being engaged, period, until I feel like I can trust her again. There were much tears, but I held my ground.

 

I logged on to her account with her today and looked over the records. It seems my guy was right about the "restore and deleted my calls incident". She had called her ex the day before, just as I suspected. In addition to that, there was an incident back in July where she put me on hold, because she had a call from work. I was on hold for about 5 mins and hung up. When she got home, she then told me it was her ex calling her from the work line, probably so she would answer and not know it was him. It seemed a little odd to me and I've had it in the back of my brain since. Well, once again, my gut was right. Her ex called her from his cell phone and she lied to me about it (on top of the fact she put me on hold to talk to him - who the f*@! does that, I mean really?!?).

 

So, I proceeded to look through the rest of the records and she has been either calling or txting him at least once a week the whole time we've been together. This makes no sense to me, since, like I said, they see each other every week at least two days (he is out of the office a lot for his department). Her defense for this is, "Well, you said you didn't care if he and I were friends and talked?" I said, "Yeah, but what I meant was that I didn't care if you two talked every once in awhile (holidays, etc.). I didn't mean that gave you carte blanche to just chat it up whenever you want. Furthermore, I find it odd that if you thought I completely didn't mind that you talked to him, why is it that 80% of what is in your statement was when I was out of town for work (they talked/txt every day) or while I've been at school?" She says, "Because I know you don't like it." I said, "Let me get this straight: you thought you could talk to him whenever you pleased, but you felt the need to hide it from me? That makes zero sense. Pretty much what I see as a pattern here is that you knew it was wrong and did it anyway. How would you feel if that were me just randomly calling my exes behind your back?" She just kept repeating that she thought she'd done somehting stupid and this was all just a misunderstanding. I pretty much told her to get out and I'd call her when I cooled down, as I knew I couldn't keep my voice at an even tone.

 

And that's where we are now...this whole thing is making my brain hurt...

[lkjh]

Use your brain not your heart. You caught her plain and simple and it seems like they have probably been physical, at the very least emotional. If she wants to stay with you demand that she takes a lie detector test, if she says no then you have your answer. But, honestly she has already lied and cheated(emotionally at the least) and you should be done with her. She can't be trusted and that is not something someone grows out of.

 

I am willing to bet that she never went to a coffee shop with the guy, she was probably messing around with him. I bet if you had her bank statement you wouldn't find a debit purchase on a lot of the days she pretended to be shopping, eating, "getting coffee", and so forth because she was with him. Sure she could have used cash but not every time. I also, bet you would fine some interesting purchases.

 

Shes not over the guy and she has been cheating

[Bryanp]

A relationship is between two people and not three people. She is a cake eater. She likes having you in a serious relationship and still staying involved at the very least on an emotional level with her ex boyfriend. She has had no problems lying to you. She was willing to jeopardize your relationship by constantly staying in contact with her ex. What does that tell you? She is too manipulative and immature to be in a committed relationship. Again you judge a person by their actions and not by their words. What do you think her actions are telling you?

[2sunny]

there's no misunderstanding. she intended to hide A LOT from you the past year - and she wants you to think it's a misunderstanding? pfffft!

 

she lied - over and over - to you. when there's nothing to hide, people don't hide things. she's been playing you like a fool while she continuously seeks attention from this other guy. who knows... some women spend their whole life seeking attention this way, it's almost like an illness and they can never stay away from men that pay them compliments and stroke their egos... it's never ending and it's never enough.

 

is this the type of gal you want to even date? what else is she wanting to get away with that she can keep a secret from you? she's shown that she's not the type that will EVER be forthcoming - even when caught. i could never trust her again, ever. your life with her would be constant worry - constantly thinking about checking and double checking to see if she's what she says she is - or if she's where she says she is and with whom. that takes ALL the fun out of being with the person who's in question.

 

you seem like an intelligent, reasonable guy... i wouldn't waste one more minute on a cheating, lying gal like that. there is plenty of women who would love your mentality and sense of sincerity.

[seibert253]

Plain and simple; she's still got feelings for her ex. No two ways about it. If she didn't, their contact would be much less.

 

The constant lying, blameshifting, deflecting, and minimizing are big tell tales about her true character.

If she really cared about how you felt, simple, she would have asked.

Honey, do you have a problem with X and I conversating? But she didn't. Therefore one can conclude she really didn't care how you felt, she was going to do it anyway, hoping not to get caught.

 

The coffeehouse incident is the capper of her true dishonesty and lack of respect for you and your relationship.

 

Can you honestly say you will ever trust her? You will constantly be looking over her sholder, constantly checking up on her. You don't need this.

 

She's gotta go.

[bloodsarover]

@siebert253

 

I understand that she still has some kind of emotional connection to her ex, based on her past actions. I was willing to allow them to communicate with each other - I told her she could - assuming that she would respect that that didn't give her carte blanche to talk to him at least once a week every week (on top of seeing each other at work).

 

I let her come home late last night and we talked some more. She basically didn't add anything significant; just saying she didn't know why she did what she did. She did manage to anger me more, in that she kept saying that she has to work with this guy and needed to keep things civil. I don't think that requires the two of them to have coffee. In addition, she was pretty much talking out of both sides of her mouth, telling me I said it was OK, while saying she was hiding it from me b/c she knew I'd be upset. Um, if I was OK with it, why the need for secrecy or the lies? Again...got the puppy eyes and the "I don't know". It just makes me agree with what many have commented: she wants her cake and to eat it to; she did it for her own selfish reasons.

 

I have a therapist currently and suggested she come with me so we could have a mediator who could give us some pointers. The more I've thought about it, the more reluctant I am to do that, as (1) this relationship is way too new to head into therapy already (I could see more sense to that if we'd been together for years) and (2) I see the same pattern I had with my ex-wife...knew she had emotional issues [she didn't cheat], went to therapy with her before we got married, still wound up divorced. I feel like I'm working against the grain here, living the very definition of "insanity" by going this route...

[VeveCakes]

Did you see what you wrote?

 

She said she did it behind your back because she KNEW YOU DIDN'T like it. Yet, she did it anyway.

 

This girl cares only about herself, not you.

 

Don't waste your energy...!!

[The Collector]

Dump her now before you catch her sitting on his face in your own bed - when she will no doubt say 'Ooops, wait this isn't me, it's a robot and, er, you're dreaming... oh I'm so confused I might kill myself.'

[Bryanp]

The two comments she made are huge red flags. First, I didn't tell you because I knew you would be mad. We can now assume she has no intention of ever being honest with you if she feels you disapprove of her actions. Second, is the comment that she didn't know why she did it. This is clear bull. By saying this she refuses to be honest and say she did it because she wanted to do it and that she was willing to jeopardize your relationship. By saying she didn't know why implies she has no control of her actions and that the problem is unfixable because she did not know why. If this is truly the case then it is a guarantee it will happen again because she does not know why it happened in the first place. How can you fix something if you do not know what it is to be fixed? I am sorry but she made a conscious choice to do this because she wanted to do it and was willing to risk the consequences.

[seibert253]

Did you see what you wrote?

 

She said she did it behind your back because she KNEW YOU DIDN'T like it. Yet, she did it anyway.

 

This girl cares only about herself, not you.

 

Don't waste your energy...!!

 

Couldn't have said it any better.

 

Dude, she's still lying, minimizing, trying to pull the wool over your eyes. TRUST ME, you do not have the whole truth about what she's been doing with her ex.

 

As I said before; she needs to go.

[SageThyme]

Interactions with your ex is something huge to lie about. It's not a small thing. And from what you've said, it seems to be a pattern. Every week for all this time?

 

This sounds like it hurt you quite a lot, and I can see why. Maybe you should take some time for yourself to heal ...for yourself. Not concern with her lies or her motives. Not even trying to "fix" anything - whether "fixing" is by checking her accounts, following her, worrying about what she'll say next... none of that. Just some time for you. Being lied to, and having your sense of anger and concern compromised, hurts. Don't underestimate that.

[2sunny]

when she continues to say "oh i don't know why i did it" is ridiculous! she knows exactly why she did it - and continues to do it... because it strokes her EGO! because she wants to! because she thinks she can get her way if she cries and pulls the "i'll kill myself" card with you.

 

bottom line is - she only cares about herself... or she wouldn't CONTINUE to hurt you ON PURPOSE with every action she takes with her ex.

 

THAT is what you can tell her... since she can't seem to figure it out in her pretty little head. :mad::mad:

 

ps... i hate it when women take advantage of men by playing dumb so they can just continue on with their own bad behavior... like they're supposed to get a hall pass because they keep playing stupid. tell her it doesn't work with you.