hopeless4u Posted November 19, 2009 Posted November 19, 2009 Well for those of you who listened, gave advice(good and bad) I thank you. Things have changed and I feel I should fill you all in. We had a conversation regarding his (MM) sex life with his W, of which I (OW)was under the understanding wasn't happening. It just happens that 'I' got it all wrong because 'he' thought 'I' would have taken it as a given as he was 'M'! For a quick re capp.....He told me they have talked about a separation, he loves me and thinks about me 24/7, this whole situation is making him ill, he has and never will lie to me but he feels so much guilt for his family and his W for what we are doing. So ok as the OW I have no right to question this, I the OW went into this knowing he was M and I do not expect any sympathy for the wrong I have done, but.......WTF! How if he says he loves me and knows my values(yes I know BS will say I have none)could he think I could be 'OK' with him still being physical with his W? The conversation we had today was very typical of our conversations, we do talk about everything, good and bad but....he knew 'this' conversation was coming so made sure he had a reason to leave and it was finished on the phone where he could say 'I can't deal with this' I can see now the pattern of the whole relationship, its like someone has turned the light on and my head and heart have finally seen each other! I always said my head knew what I should do but my heart was stronger and always pulled me back in. The moral of the story I guess is when the time is right to walk away or at least when certain things that are said, you know in your heart enough is enough. Sometimes you know that things have got to change. I'm sure BS will be more than forthcoming with 'I told you so' and I really don't blame you but just remember I have never blamed, slagged off or been bitter.
Fallen Angel Posted November 19, 2009 Posted November 19, 2009 I, for one would never berate you, and I am sorry that you are feeling pain. I wish I knew what to say to make you feel better, but words fail me in times like these. I am sorry just doesn't seem to be enough, but I am sorry. ((HUGS))
norajane Posted November 19, 2009 Posted November 19, 2009 I'm glad you were able to ask the right questions and get the answers you need in order to make the right decisions for yourself. He may have assumed you must know that he, as a MM, is having sex with his wife. And he probably did know that would bother you, a lot. So he chose not to bring that up himself, just like he's not going to voluntarily tell his wife he's been having an affair and having sex with someone else. He omits the truth when it's likely that will have a negative impact on him. MM are in it for themselves. For all the moaning and whining about guilt, he did nothing about it, did he? He stayed married, and he continued his affair with you. For 2 years, I think? It's all about him - you and his wife are just there to meet his needs.
foreal Posted November 19, 2009 Posted November 19, 2009 I'm sure BS will be more than forthcoming with 'I told you so' and I really don't blame you but just remember I have never blamed, slagged off or been bitter. No I told you so's to you from me....just a (((hopeless4you))) But would you mind if I told your MM to F off? What an Ahole he is.
Author hopeless4u Posted November 19, 2009 Author Posted November 19, 2009 I, for one would never berate you, and I am sorry that you are feeling pain. I wish I knew what to say to make you feel better, but words fail me in times like these. I am sorry just doesn't seem to be enough, but I am sorry. ((HUGS)) Thank you sweetheart that means alot, I know my situation is my own doing and its not all bad I have to say. He has also been very 'knocked out' by what has been said and has a lot of thinking to do. xx
jwi71 Posted November 20, 2009 Posted November 20, 2009 ....he knew 'this' conversation was coming so made sure he had a reason to leave and it was finished on the phone where he could say 'I can't deal with this' Remember this. Remember it when you are weak and lonely. Remember this when, in remembrance, you put him back on that pedestal. He knew. He knew where this R was going. You didn't but HE did. Honest? Not even close. Integrity? He wouldn't know it if you hit him upside the head with it. He knew. He planned this. No way around it...he knew the day would come and delayed it for as long as he could. And by delay, I mean keep you around for his own need. NO thought of you or your well being. Only him. Most MM know. Almost all I would wager. Disgusting aren't they?
whattodonow12 Posted November 20, 2009 Posted November 20, 2009 I am sorry that you are hurting. But, he is selfish... no way about it. And, unfortunately, if he was with you for 2 years and had not made a move one way or another, something had to be going on there. Most people don't go 2 years in their marriage and not have sex.
Author hopeless4u Posted November 20, 2009 Author Posted November 20, 2009 I'm glad you were able to ask the right questions and get the answers you need in order to make the right decisions for yourself. He may have assumed you must know that he, as a MM, is having sex with his wife. And he probably did know that would bother you, a lot. So he chose not to bring that up himself, just like he's not going to voluntarily tell his wife he's been having an affair and having sex with someone else. He omits the truth when it's likely that will have a negative impact on him. MM are in it for themselves. For all the moaning and whining about guilt, he did nothing about it, did he? He stayed married, and he continued his affair with you. For 2 years, I think? It's all about him - you and his wife are just there to meet his needs. Yes you are right and as much as I hate having to admit it I was well an truly taken for a ride, unfortunately that doesn't stop me from wanting the man I have fell in love with. When I say that, I mean the pain I feel not the going out and getting him. Not sure that really makes sense?
NoIDidn't Posted November 20, 2009 Posted November 20, 2009 Please don't take this as "I told you so". Its not that at all. I am not surprised with the way that he has treated you so far. Its so common for his type (the type to keep tabs on you and make sure you are emotionally and mentally "in your place"). Its always easy for them to lie to you and then make it seem like it was your fault for not knowing. Of course, he's married - but he's the one that said he wasn't sleeping with her. He had you wondering how his W could not know he was cheating, when he's the one doing everything in his power to stay married. I assume you have had a d-day with him, given what you have written elsewhere on the board? You asked how could she not know about the continuing affair, but went on to say that he was away on family business to smooth things over with her? If this is too personal, I totally understand not wanting to answer it. I apologize in advance. In a lot of cases, I might agree that the OW is a fool. You say you asked him if he was still intimate with her, and he lied and implied that she wasn't interested in doing that with him any longer. I'd say you were a fool if you blindly believed his claim and actually tried to defend it, but you did not just blindly believe him or try to defend it. I have to wonder if he was just wanting to break things off with you in telling you the truth about sex with his W? And the getting off the phone with the "I can't handle this now" comment? Sounds like the script. Remember he "knew" this conversation was coming? There IS a book on these kinds. In fact, I think it IS called "The Script". Don't be too hard on yourself. But do get him to hurry with his project on your home so you can have him out of your personal space while you figure things out.
norajane Posted November 20, 2009 Posted November 20, 2009 Of course it makes sense that you feel pain! Just because you now realize you made a bad decision to get involved with him doesn't mean you didn't develop feelings and didn't give it your all. And even though you see him more clearly now, and it hurts to know he treated you that way, it's not easy to just turn off your feelings for him. However, give it time. You'll get to the anger phase soon enough and that will carry you through some of the pain. Trust me, though, eventually you will get through this and will come out the other side feeling so free and like a huge weight has been lifted off your shoulders. You will feel such relief that your happiness is no longer dependent on whether he and his wife are doing well or doing badly together that week. You will feel so free not to have to think about what he's doing with his wife. And you will feel so energized when you realize that you are free to fall in love and be with someone who can actually give you his whole heart without reservations. Give it time.
IfWishesWereHorses Posted November 20, 2009 Posted November 20, 2009 I was well an truly taken for a ride, unfortunately that doesn't stop me from wanting the man I have fell in love with. When I say that, I mean the pain I feel not the going out and getting him. Not sure that really makes sense? The problem is that the man you fell in love with doesn't actually exist. Well he does exist but not without this selfserving broken side. You are not going to change him, he isn't going to change himself. What you don't know (details of his M) won't hurt you. I'm sure he loves you, but you will find that its conditional based on you accepting these faults without question.
whichwayisup Posted November 20, 2009 Posted November 20, 2009 The conversation we had today was very typical of our conversations, we do talk about everything, good and bad but....he knew 'this' conversation was coming so made sure he had a reason to leave and it was finished on the phone where he could say 'I can't deal with this' I can see now the pattern of the whole relationship, its like someone has turned the light on and my head and heart have finally seen each other! This is really telling. The way he is when you two have those "talks".. You wanna talk it out, say your peace and he just wants to run away and head for the hills. Good to see the blinders have come off. See him for who he is. A selfish cake eating man who loved to have to women meet all his needs. Be strong and do all that you can to get him out of your heart for good! He isn't worth it.
LucreziaBorgia Posted November 20, 2009 Posted November 20, 2009 How if he says he loves me and knows my values(yes I know BS will say I have none)could he think I could be 'OK' with him still being physical with his W? Because the way most MM see it, the OW/MM relationship is the OW business. The MM/W relationship is not OW business. They tend to separate the two relationships. Two different parameters, with no overlap, or very little. MM honestly do not see why having sex with W would affect the OW relationship at all. It has nothing to do with OW and how he feels about OW. Screwy logic, but having been on that side of things often enough it makes sense in a twisted, fractured way.
torranceshipman Posted November 20, 2009 Posted November 20, 2009 I think it is actually great that he told you, because it is so much better than him pretending and gaslighting, as then you'd probably have stayed with him. But it sounds like this is enough to make you walk away, which is great news. He is a jackass and he doesn't deserve you...
ADF Posted November 20, 2009 Posted November 20, 2009 Try to keep two things in mind: 1) Any man who can carry on an affair under his wife's nose is, by definition, a skilled con artist. And con artists con EVERYBODY, not just their wives. 2) Most MM will end up staying with their wives in the end. And it's not necessarily because they like their wives better. They stay with them because it is easier. Never underestimate the lengths people will go to make things as easy on themselves as possible. Good luck.
Author hopeless4u Posted November 20, 2009 Author Posted November 20, 2009 Please don't take this as "I told you so". Its not that at all. I am not surprised with the way that he has treated you so far. Its so common for his type (the type to keep tabs on you and make sure you are emotionally and mentally "in your place"). Its always easy for them to lie to you and then make it seem like it was your fault for not knowing. Of course, he's married - but he's the one that said he wasn't sleeping with her. He had you wondering how his W could not know he was cheating, when he's the one doing everything in his power to stay married. I assume you have had a d-day with him, given what you have written elsewhere on the board? You asked how could she not know about the continuing affair, but went on to say that he was away on family business to smooth things over with her? If this is too personal, I totally understand not wanting to answer it. I apologize in advance. In a lot of cases, I might agree that the OW is a fool. You say you asked him if he was still intimate with her, and he lied and implied that she wasn't interested in doing that with him any longer. I'd say you were a fool if you blindly believed his claim and actually tried to defend it, but you did not just blindly believe him or try to defend it. I have to wonder if he was just wanting to break things off with you in telling you the truth about sex with his W? And the getting off the phone with the "I can't handle this now" comment? Sounds like the script. Remember he "knew" this conversation was coming? There IS a book on these kinds. In fact, I think it IS called "The Script". Don't be too hard on yourself. But do get him to hurry with his project on your home so you can have him out of your personal space while you figure things out. Since the 'conversation' I have now thought about everything he says and said and wonder if he chose certain words deliberately to mislead me. Yes and now I know why, he has said he hasn't actually had sex with her but my problem is that he must be giving her the green light to get intimate so sex or no sex its still the same. They had problems before me, she doesn't know about the A and never will unless he tells her, I would never put her through the pain as from what he has told me it would crush her beyond belief, she has confidence issues already. I ended it in May(1 of many times we've tried) with NC and it lasted a few days, I was away with work(unfortunately we work for the same company) and we broke NC and he told me on the phone he had booked a holiday for them both and was leaving the next day to try and get his head together. Although this made me sick to the pit of my stomach I told him we should keep contact down to a minimum and if he didn't make a decision when they got back it was over, forever. He phoned me everyday and when I asked if he was sleeping with her(most M people do on holiday) his words were 'I can assure you none of that is happening'. He didn't just say no he made a statement! He told me it was him who didn't and never has had a very high sex drive and that has also been an issue for her in their M, even before I came along. It crossed my mind that he wants me to end things so he doesn't feel like the bad guy and then he is free to make his M work without the guilt of my broken heart. This is the road I'm now taking, if I don't show him I hurting(I have in the past) then he can move on. Unfortunately the DIY he is doing for me may take some time but I know and so does he that nothing will happen between us until he has moved out. His Idea as he said he can't promise me he won't get intimate with his W while he is still living at home whether it be choice or duty and that is fine by me, better than him lying and I know its the 1 thing that I will stick to so when I'm feeling weak I just picture him with his wife and the barriers are up. He has been at my house all day today and as much as I wanted to put my arms round him I held off with that very thought!! I really want to stay friends with him, he isn't a bad person and as much as I know he has misled me I'm not sure it was intentional and it certainly wasn't to deliberately hurt me.
awkward Posted November 20, 2009 Posted November 20, 2009 (((hopeless4you))) You will be ok and make it through this. It will be painful, but in the end you will be stronger. He is a skilled liar. Don't beat yourself up to much. You had a role in this and are suffering for it. Just don't go back. Maintain NC with him, you'll thank yourself later.
Author hopeless4u Posted November 20, 2009 Author Posted November 20, 2009 No I told you so's to you from me....just a (((hopeless4you))) But would you mind if I told your MM to F off? What an Ahole he is. You just have....he read the post and no I don't mind. I have said exactly the same thing to a friend's MM.
Author hopeless4u Posted November 20, 2009 Author Posted November 20, 2009 Of course it makes sense that you feel pain! Just because you now realize you made a bad decision to get involved with him doesn't mean you didn't develop feelings and didn't give it your all. And even though you see him more clearly now, and it hurts to know he treated you that way, it's not easy to just turn off your feelings for him. However, give it time. You'll get to the anger phase soon enough and that will carry you through some of the pain. Trust me, though, eventually you will get through this and will come out the other side feeling so free and like a huge weight has been lifted off your shoulders. You will feel such relief that your happiness is no longer dependent on whether he and his wife are doing well or doing badly together that week. You will feel so free not to have to think about what he's doing with his wife. And you will feel so energized when you realize that you are free to fall in love and be with someone who can actually give you his whole heart without reservations. Give it time. Yesterday I was angry, sick(with myself) for being sucked in, angry with him for misleading me, so stupid as I'm a very 'black an white' kind of person but have been so emotional on this. I couldn't even look him in the eye without wanting to punch him!! Today however it's strange, I have a calm feeling about it, he's been at my house all day(DIY) and I've been ok, just think of him with his W and all the feelings of wanting him are gone. I think I really did convince myself they had nothing left to save so how was what we were doing wrong but now its all different.
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