Midnight Rider Posted November 19, 2009 Posted November 19, 2009 Just saw this on USA2day... thoughts? GENEVA (AP) — Islamic nations are mounting a campaign for an international treaty to protect religious symbols and beliefs from mockery — essentially, a ban on blasphemy. Documents obtained by The Associated Press show that Algeria and Pakistan have taken the lead in lobbying to bring the matter to a vote in the U.N. General Assembly. Such a ban would face great resistance in Western nations that enshrine freedom of expression as a fundamental right. The countries that form the 56-member Organization of the Islamic Conference are currently lobbying a Geneva-based U.N. committee to accept its plan, a first step for it to eventually be put before the General Assembly. If that occurs, Muslim countries and their allies in the developing world would stand a decent chance of mustering the simple majority needed in the General Assembly to adopt such a treaty.
Toki Posted November 19, 2009 Posted November 19, 2009 sounds more like populism against the UN, since they failed to mention that the Secretary General (and members of the security council who have to pass legislation before a vote can be made) will kill this bill before it ever reaches the floor. Water under the bridge. Who listens to the UN anymore, anyways? it's a neutered institution.
BUENG1 Posted November 20, 2009 Posted November 20, 2009 Just saw this on USA2day... thoughts? GENEVA (AP) — Islamic nations are mounting a campaign for an international treaty to protect religious symbols and beliefs from mockery — essentially, a ban on blasphemy. Documents obtained by The Associated Press show that Algeria and Pakistan have taken the lead in lobbying to bring the matter to a vote in the U.N. General Assembly. Such a ban would face great resistance in Western nations that enshrine freedom of expression as a fundamental right. The countries that form the 56-member Organization of the Islamic Conference are currently lobbying a Geneva-based U.N. committee to accept its plan, a first step for it to eventually be put before the General Assembly. If that occurs, Muslim countries and their allies in the developing world would stand a decent chance of mustering the simple majority needed in the General Assembly to adopt such a treaty. The vote has to pass the Security Council no? Since the US is a member seems like that won't happen.
RA1 Posted November 20, 2009 Posted November 20, 2009 This is a very complex issue. The idea the Western countries already have free speech is a myth. Some Western countries make it an offense to deny the holocaust. Some Western countries make it an offense to incite to violence. Even websites such as this one limit what we can say: one of the rules of this forum is "Each person that posts on the forum is to be treated with the utmost respect and civility regardless of how absurd or ridiculous the opinion expressed might seem to you from your perspective." I can understand this rule up to a point -- we wouldn't want a lot of respondents ridiculing a vulnerable poster such that the poster commits suicide, for example. On the other hand, such a rule potentially allows the website to suppress postings that go against the tastes of its moderators while turning a blind eye to postings that coincide with the views of its moderators. Similarly, national blasphemy laws could be open to abuse by being used to promote one view over other equally or more valid views. Because of the potential for abuse, any new proposal to limit freedom of speech needs to be scrutinized very carefully to make sure that the benefits will outweigh the harm.
Rooster_DAR Posted November 23, 2009 Posted November 23, 2009 I'm still waiting for a day when the world bans religion altogether. That day won't show up in my lifetime unfortunately.
disgracian Posted November 23, 2009 Posted November 23, 2009 I'm still waiting for a day when the world bans religion altogether. That day won't show up in my lifetime unfortunately. It's not a day I would ever want to see. People have to grow out of it and willingly leave it behind. Cheers, D.
quankanne Posted November 24, 2009 Posted November 24, 2009 I'm still waiting for a day when the world bans religion altogether. That day won't show up in my lifetime unfortunately. think of the former communist countries of Europe, whose people got tired of being told they weren't allowed to embrace religion and a system that dehumanized mankind but not giving him value other than "worker bee for The System. Communism failed because people inherently want something more ... as D points out, the only way you'll get rid of religion is if every last person willingly chooses to abandon those structures. but it ain't gonna happen because someone somewhere is going to respond to the divine spark that's in him, and questions, "who am I?"
Rooster_DAR Posted November 24, 2009 Posted November 24, 2009 It's not a day I would ever want to see. People have to grow out of it and willingly leave it behind. Cheers, D. True, but what happens when religion becomes the enemy that declares war on the earth. Radical Muslim has already decided that the West should be destroyed, they will do anything including nuclear war to remedy their cause regardless of what they take out along the way. Historically, the Catholics went on bloody witch hunts for their cause, who know how much more skewed religion can become. Perhaps when we learn to terraform planets we can ship off the stable human beings elsewhere and leave the rest here. Cheers!
Cobra_X Posted November 24, 2009 Posted November 24, 2009 I'm still waiting for a day when the world bans religion altogether. That day won't show up in my lifetime unfortunately. Do you honestly think that would be a good idea? Human nature is what brings evil into the world, why don't you find a way to ban that? Blaming religion is a kindergarten response. At some point we all need to grow up and realize why the world is as it is.
Toki Posted November 24, 2009 Posted November 24, 2009 Do you honestly think that would be a good idea? Human nature is what brings evil into the world, why don't you find a way to ban that? Blaming religion is a kindergarten response. At some point we all need to grow up and realize why the world is as it is. And I for one, Welcome our New Cyborg Overlords!
Quinch Posted November 24, 2009 Posted November 24, 2009 I'll stop blaspheming when religion stops telling me I'm going to hell if I don't stop blaspheming
Rooster_DAR Posted November 24, 2009 Posted November 24, 2009 Do you honestly think that would be a good idea? Probably not, it was just comforting for the moment. Human nature is what brings evil into the world, why don't you find a way to ban that? Blaming religion is a kindergarten response. At some point we all need to grow up and realize why the world is as it is. Human nature is human nature, it wasn't born out of original sin or any sin for that matter. Religion can be a dangerous catalyst to human nature IMO, and one that can be overcome with common sense.
disgracian Posted November 25, 2009 Posted November 25, 2009 Radical Muslim has already decided that the West should be destroyed, they will do anything including nuclear war to remedy their cause regardless of what they take out along the way. They are a fringe group. Honestly, if all ~1.6 billion Muslims decided to destroy the West, we'd know about it. In reality, about ~1.59 billion clearly don't care all that much. And that's Islam, arguably the most malevolent religion in the world today. What about Hindus, Buddhists, Taoists, Deists, Hare Krishnas, and so on. What threat do they really represent? Absolutely none. I think your doomsday scenario is unlikely to the point of silliness. Cheers, D.
Quinch Posted November 25, 2009 Posted November 25, 2009 They are a fringe group. Honestly, if all ~1.6 billion Muslims decided to destroy the West, we'd know about it. In reality, about ~1.59 billion clearly don't care all that much. I think your doomsday scenario is unlikely to the point of silliness. And yet it only takes a handful of extremist nutters getting their hands on a single nuclear warhead ...
Rooster_DAR Posted November 25, 2009 Posted November 25, 2009 And yet it only takes a handful of extremist nutters getting their hands on a single nuclear warhead ... That was the point I was trying to make. I think it's irresponsible at best to think this kind of scenario could not play out. Cheers!
disgracian Posted November 26, 2009 Posted November 26, 2009 And yet it only takes a handful of extremist nutters getting their hands on a single nuclear warhead ... You are absolutely correct. It's noteworthy to mention that you made no reference to religion though, which comes back to my point that it's extremely silly to want to "ban" religion as if the whole concept of believing in a higher power is at fault. The real problem is unreasonable zealots, and they can be motivated by anything. Cheers, D.
threebyfate Posted November 26, 2009 Posted November 26, 2009 If Muslim countries want the ban on the mockery of their beliefs and symbols, they should be banning their own people from celebrating horrendous events like 9/11 and ensuring that terrorism is permanently quashed. Respect goes two ways, especially when it involved lives v. fantasy.
dunstable Posted November 27, 2009 Posted November 27, 2009 If Muslim countries want the ban on the mockery of their beliefs and symbols, they should be banning their own people from celebrating horrendous events like 9/11 and ensuring that terrorism is permanently quashed. Respect goes two ways, especially when it involved lives v. fantasy. Correct, but unfortunately people are not so reasoable in either the Muslim countries or the USA. How woould you go about making Muslim coutries understand the USA and the USA (especially the Southern states) understand the Muslim countries?
threebyfate Posted November 27, 2009 Posted November 27, 2009 Correct, but unfortunately people are not so reasoable in either the Muslim countries or the USA. How woould you go about making Muslim coutries understand the USA and the USA (especially the Southern states) understand the Muslim countries?Truth be told, I wouldn't bother. Just like I wouldn't bother with the ban proposed in the OP.
Rooster_DAR Posted November 28, 2009 Posted November 28, 2009 lol @ atheist extremists, you're a joke dude. You need to get a life, your ignorance is getting annoying. BTW, the joke is between your legs idiot.
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