Author hopeless4u Posted November 25, 2009 Author Posted November 25, 2009 hopeless4U I am glad that you asked some straightforward questions and got the answers you need to make an informed decision about your life. Just one of the things that I find to be so horrid about affairs is the fact that the BS is not given the necessary information about something that is absolutely impacting his/her life and as a result, can not make informed decisions. In your situation, if the wife had all the pieces of the puzzle and knew that you existed and was in a relationship with her H....she might have been more than willing to let him go (or kick him out) so that he could be with you. Unfortunatly, she will never be given that option because your XMM/ her H will never tell her the truth. In the days and weeks to come, when he is trying to rope you back in (and he probably will try) remember that he is working his a** off lying to his wife to keep her from finding out about his OW....and remember that he lied to/misled you about the true status of his marriage. He sounds like a man who will say whatever it takes to get what he wants at the moment...whether that is a trusting, happy, loving wife at home or a trusting, happy, loving OW outside the home. Both in love with him. Both want to be with him. I think in my next life I want to be reincarnated as a MM for 1 day:rolleyes:...All that adoration they get from 2 women must be a fabulous rush. Bottom line They get the best of both while only offering a fraction to both. I couldn't agree more with all of this. I have told him time and time again that he should tell his W, if not about us at least that he has been unfaithful so she can then figure out what she wants. I've told him it's unfair on her as she wants to work at fixing their marriage but would she if she knew, maybe she would but at least it would be her choice and she'd know everything. You are right about him giving a fraction of the love back that he is getting from 2 women and of course why wood he give that up! I haven't and will not go back to how we were. Everytime I feel myself weaken I just think of him saying all the same things to his W when he leaves me and so far its working, I haven't broken down this time, I don't know if I will, the feelings for him are still there but they are different, more focussed on my head not my heart.
Flabbergaster Posted November 26, 2009 Posted November 26, 2009 From a mm: bottom line, YOU DESERVE BETTER than what he can offer you. Don't settle. He might actually love you; it might not be bs. THAT DOES NOT MEAN HE WILL LEAVE HIS WIFE. It also does not mean that thingswill work between you. YOU DESERVE MORE than love and sufferring. He isn't the person that can give it to you. So blow him a kiss, think of how close to wonderful it was, and go on your way. Find someone EMOTIONALLY AVAILABLE (this means not married) with qualities that you liked from him. Helping you with diy? nonono. Just pay someone; it's worth sparing yourself the pain and chance of reverting. Tell him it's over, that the only communication you can have with him is work related (and to minimize where possible), that you hope he finds happiness but that you aren't the one to bring it to him. MAYBE if he's divorced for a few months you can think about dating him again...but not before. Even then...you'll just catch emotional backlash. Maybe he loves you? Maybe you love him? SOMETIMES...love is not enough. WALK away from him. I love the OW...and this is my advice to her (not just to you) because I love her. WALK AWAY and start your love life fresh. Will your MM suffer and miss you? YES! Does this mean you should stay and suffer, accepting less than what you deserve in a relationship? NO NO NO!!! You're a great person, you deserve someone great. He's too flawed. Blow him a kiss, cry a bit, and go find someone that can love you completely.
Author hopeless4u Posted November 26, 2009 Author Posted November 26, 2009 From a mm: bottom line, YOU DESERVE BETTER than what he can offer you. Don't settle. He might actually love you; it might not be bs. THAT DOES NOT MEAN HE WILL LEAVE HIS WIFE. It also does not mean that thingswill work between you. YOU DESERVE MORE than love and sufferring. He isn't the person that can give it to you. So blow him a kiss, think of how close to wonderful it was, and go on your way. Find someone EMOTIONALLY AVAILABLE (this means not married) with qualities that you liked from him. Helping you with diy? nonono. Just pay someone; it's worth sparing yourself the pain and chance of reverting. Tell him it's over, that the only communication you can have with him is work related (and to minimize where possible), that you hope he finds happiness but that you aren't the one to bring it to him. MAYBE if he's divorced for a few months you can think about dating him again...but not before. Even then...you'll just catch emotional backlash. Maybe he loves you? Maybe you love him? SOMETIMES...love is not enough. WALK away from him. I love the OW...and this is my advice to her (not just to you) because I love her. WALK AWAY and start your love life fresh. Will your MM suffer and miss you? YES! Does this mean you should stay and suffer, accepting less than what you deserve in a relationship? NO NO NO!!! You're a great person, you deserve someone great. He's too flawed. Blow him a kiss, cry a bit, and go find someone that can love you completely. This sounds like what my MM says to me, he tells me to find someone else, he's not good enough. The advice I get on here is that he is lying and yes maybe he is, this is the reason I wanted to hear from a MM in his situation. He is not a bad man just very confused and yes I will always love him but since I found out he is still being intimate with his W I know I won't go back there, I can't. I know with the DIY he is doing for me is an excuse for both of us to still be involved and neither of us want each other out of our lives, even though we both know its the only way. The pain of not sharing our lives is just to much to handle right now. Are you still in the A? How is your R with your W? Sorry if these questions sound intrusive but I really do want to understand.
Midnight Rider Posted November 26, 2009 Posted November 26, 2009 He went on holiday with his W in May to try and make sense of things, we had done NC for a couple of days when he booked it but he ended up on the phone to me the whole time he was there sharing what they had done and saying all he could think about is he'd of been enjoying it more if it was me there not his W. I did say when he left that he should concentrate on his W but as usual I caved in. You certainly aren't making it easier for him to stay commited to his wife. I know it's partly his fault, but you as an OW could have prevented yourself from falling into a relationship. As yourself, do you really care about his wife? If the answer is yes, then what are you doing with a married man? I think you and all other women should have the responsibility to avoid relationships with a married man. Everytime you talk with him, everytime you think about him, you are disrespecting his wife. I don't know what else to tell you or what other way to look at it. It's just not right!
Author hopeless4u Posted November 26, 2009 Author Posted November 26, 2009 You certainly aren't making it easier for him to stay commited to his wife. I know it's partly his fault, but you as an OW could have prevented yourself from falling into a relationship. As yourself, do you really care about his wife? If the answer is yes, then what are you doing with a married man? I think you and all other women should have the responsibility to avoid relationships with a married man. Everytime you talk with him, everytime you think about him, you are disrespecting his wife. I don't know what else to tell you or what other way to look at it. It's just not right! I know its my decision, I know its me who has to tell him I won't be there for him anymore and I know if I do he will do what I ask but I really can't imagine my life without him in it. Yes I care about his wife, if I didn't I'd of told her what is going on. He has told me where they live, where his daughter's uni is, where his son works, his dad works and even where his mum lives. I have their home phone number and have picked his phone up when his W rings, so yes I care, I care about his W, his family and his future. I think about him in his perfect life 24/7 and it breaks my heart but I would never put his W through hearing this from me, if she finds out it will be from him so don't tell me I don't care because I care believe me!
Flabbergaster Posted November 27, 2009 Posted November 27, 2009 Why i tell her to find someone else / not good enough: I love her. I know that I'm not good enough. She deserves...a SINGLE man that can marry her. Someone that can, would, and has devoted ALL his 'being' to her. I know she will be in a mix of happiness and pain until she has me to herself, or leaves me. Leaving me...is more realistic. I'm not lying when I say she deserves better...but I do notice that it sometimes makes her cling tighter...and that if it were simply a player this would be a great line to use. Maybe he has a more clear view of the situation than you do, when he tells that to you. Your opinion of his relationship with W is probably worse than the truth, in part because that makes you optimistic. I am still in the A. Love her. Want her to leave me, because me leaving would be too painful for her. WHen she leaves...I'm going to be in a very bad way. Wish I could...be with her. Relationship with W? Improving. Many of our problems came from her behavior / communication style / attitude / way she treated me. Many also came from terrible losses in our lifes. She has reduced work stress, gone to C, had meds, and become bearable. I see many of the things that I fell in love with. Not easy to walk away, even when you aren't happy. The M is a longterm investment...it's hard to discard that. Do you see a recurring theme, here? I KNOW THAT I CAN'T MAKE OW HAPPY. I know how bad the pain of not having him is. I'm so sorry for you. I know how much it hurts on those nights when you're alone and he couldn't stay in your bed...show up...or even call you. Maybe your situation is different. My advice would be... 1. politely tell him the relationship will end on day X (less than a month?) unless he files and leaves her 2. follow through 3. get therapy 4. move on with your life He'll probably think about you the rest of his life. That doesn't mean you need to sacrifice the rest of your life for him. Won't go back there? Honey, you got into an affair with a MM. Having sex with him despite the fact that he's sleeping with his wife...is a stone's throw away from where you are, now. Lish is right; there's nothing special, here. This is simply how tragic 'impossible' love feels. REAL love shouldn't hurt so much... This sounds like what my MM says to me, he tells me to find someone else, he's not good enough. The advice I get on here is that he is lying and yes maybe he is, this is the reason I wanted to hear from a MM in his situation. He is not a bad man just very confused and yes I will always love him but since I found out he is still being intimate with his W I know I won't go back there, I can't. I know with the DIY he is doing for me is an excuse for both of us to still be involved and neither of us want each other out of our lives, even though we both know its the only way. The pain of not sharing our lives is just to much to handle right now. Are you still in the A? How is your R with your W? Sorry if these questions sound intrusive but I really do want to understand.
NoIDidn't Posted November 27, 2009 Posted November 27, 2009 This sounds like what my MM says to me, he tells me to find someone else, he's not good enough. The advice I get on here is that he is lying and yes maybe he is, this is the reason I wanted to hear from a MM in his situation. He is not a bad man just very confused and yes I will always love him but since I found out he is still being intimate with his W I know I won't go back there, I can't. I know with the DIY he is doing for me is an excuse for both of us to still be involved and neither of us want each other out of our lives, even though we both know its the only way. The pain of not sharing our lives is just to much to handle right now. Are you still in the A? How is your R with your W? Sorry if these questions sound intrusive but I really do want to understand. I think FlabberB, just told you what your MM is likely feeling. He isn't likely going to leave, at least, not right now. And that is exactly what the "I don't deserve you. You should find an available man. I won't forget you" conversation is all about. It is saying that HE has already made a decision and is just waiting for you to see it that way so YOU can break things off. He feels that him doing it will destroy you (ego, much? LOL). He's already prepared himself emotionally for losing you, knows he won't forget you, but is prepared for the inevitable ending. A d-day during such a time would be devastating to an OW. This is one of the prime reasons for feeling "thrown under the bus" - not listening to him, not reading the writing on the wall. (Note to Flabber - her clinging is because she doesn't think she will ever get the feelings she has with you again. I was here before. But when you are there is feels life-threatening. Sometimes its best to just pull the bandaid quickly)
SoleMate Posted November 27, 2009 Posted November 27, 2009 ..I'm not defending 'us' or our situation just trying to understand whats going on in his head.... If we tell you what's going on in his head, will you believe us? And yes, a MM can be using you even if the sex is not frequent. (BTW, what is the point of having a half-baked r/s with infrequent sex, lies, and restricted access?) OW post a LOT on this forum because they all have a LOT of TIME on their hands. Time that they are spending alone, without having been given a choice to spend it together.
Angel1111 Posted November 28, 2009 Posted November 28, 2009 It breaks my heart to read this because it could be me writing it. I was in an affair with a MM for almost 5 yrs and it was very much the way you describe yours - a strong connection based in a deep friendship. I ended it with him many times but would always cave in as you did because I thought that what we had actually meant something. And I'm not saying that I didn't mean something to him and I'm not even saying that he didn't love me - but I would always come second to his family and there was no way of getting around that. Several months ago, I ended it with him for good and had no intentions of caving in again - and I haven't. But we maintain contact and talk a lot, mostly through messages in facebook. This week, I was hit pretty hard with a reality. Because no matter that we ended the physical part of our relationship, continuing to talk the amount of time we talk still has kept us connected, plus all the pet names - sweetie, babe, etc - just adds to it. But when told me all the things he was going to be doing for Thanksgiving - cooking with his daughter, watching games, going with his family to help needy people, I looked around at my life and realized that in the great scheme of things, I am truly nobody to him. Just someone who's been dumb enough to stay connected to him on some level so that it fills the gap in his lousy marriage. The lousy marriage that he plans to never leave. The lousy marriage and wife that he chooses to go home to each day. And it hit me like a ton of bricks the day before Thanksgiving and I told him - after his cheery email - that it was too hard for me to chat and that I wished him a happy Thanksgiving. He hasn't said word to me since. And the truth is, I don't want him to. First of all, I'm angry - angry at him and angry at myself. I keep asking myself how someone could do that to another person. I ask myself if I could string someone along year after year when I knew full well that I wasn't going to leave my marriage. And I know that I could never do that. But mostly I'm mad at myself for sitting around letting 5 1/2 yrs go by when I could've been with someone else. I need to move on completely with my life and stop this relationship that I have with someone that I actually thought I was done with. But if it were truly done, his email wouldn't have hurt me, it wouldn't have had the effect it had. The fact that it never seems to end, that we just can't seem to make a full break from one another used to mean something to me. It doesn't mean anything. That is what I know. So I see you here doing the same thing. Wasting your life. And the only way you're going to fully break that connection is when it slams you in the face as to how unimportant you really are to him - no matter what he says. His actions tell you everything. And even if he loves you to the ends of the earth and back, but cannot or will not change his life for you, then that love will cause you to end up alone, with no one by your side. And he will let that happen, if you let it. I hope that you'll wake up before you waste too many more years on this relationship.
Katerina Posted November 28, 2009 Posted November 28, 2009 Hopefull4u, I'm sorry for being so direct, but listen... 2 years is a long enough time to make up one's mind. If he really loved you all that much and wanted to leave his wife for you, he would have already. IMHO, he's playing this game (cheating on his wife) for whatever selfish reason. He's being selfish and unfair to both his wife and you. Have some self-respect. Leave him and get a life of your own.
Author hopeless4u Posted November 28, 2009 Author Posted November 28, 2009 It breaks my heart to read this because it could be me writing it. I was in an affair with a MM for almost 5 yrs and it was very much the way you describe yours - a strong connection based in a deep friendship. I ended it with him many times but would always cave in as you did because I thought that what we had actually meant something. And I'm not saying that I didn't mean something to him and I'm not even saying that he didn't love me - but I would always come second to his family and there was no way of getting around that. Several months ago, I ended it with him for good and had no intentions of caving in again - and I haven't. But we maintain contact and talk a lot, mostly through messages in facebook. This week, I was hit pretty hard with a reality. Because no matter that we ended the physical part of our relationship, continuing to talk the amount of time we talk still has kept us connected, plus all the pet names - sweetie, babe, etc - just adds to it. But when told me all the things he was going to be doing for Thanksgiving - cooking with his daughter, watching games, going with his family to help needy people, I looked around at my life and realized that in the great scheme of things, I am truly nobody to him. Just someone who's been dumb enough to stay connected to him on some level so that it fills the gap in his lousy marriage. The lousy marriage that he plans to never leave. The lousy marriage and wife that he chooses to go home to each day. And it hit me like a ton of bricks the day before Thanksgiving and I told him - after his cheery email - that it was too hard for me to chat and that I wished him a happy Thanksgiving. He hasn't said word to me since. And the truth is, I don't want him to. First of all, I'm angry - angry at him and angry at myself. I keep asking myself how someone could do that to another person. I ask myself if I could string someone along year after year when I knew full well that I wasn't going to leave my marriage. And I know that I could never do that. But mostly I'm mad at myself for sitting around letting 5 1/2 yrs go by when I could've been with someone else. I need to move on completely with my life and stop this relationship that I have with someone that I actually thought I was done with. But if it were truly done, his email wouldn't have hurt me, it wouldn't have had the effect it had. The fact that it never seems to end, that we just can't seem to make a full break from one another used to mean something to me. It doesn't mean anything. That is what I know. So I see you here doing the same thing. Wasting your life. And the only way you're going to fully break that connection is when it slams you in the face as to how unimportant you really are to him - no matter what he says. His actions tell you everything. And even if he loves you to the ends of the earth and back, but cannot or will not change his life for you, then that love will cause you to end up alone, with no one by your side. And he will let that happen, if you let it. I hope that you'll wake up before you waste too many more years on this relationship. You are so right (lost count how many times I have said that on LS!) As I was reading your post he txt saying he had fell asleep(him and W had house to themselves tonight and I said for him to talk) I had it in my mind that maybe they had so didn't txt him, yeah right. I'm done, I'm not wasting my life for this man. I love him so much and thats always clouded my judgment but not now. He has chosen his wife and he now has to live with that choice, I am no longer an option for him. xx
Katerina Posted November 28, 2009 Posted November 28, 2009 (edited) Just someone who's been dumb enough to stay connected to him on some level so that it fills the gap in his lousy marriage. The lousy marriage that he plans to never leave. The lousy marriage and wife that he chooses to go home to each day. It amazes me every time how OWs are convinced that their MM's marriage is "lousy". There are many, many reasons people have affairs... and most of them are because of some inner, psychological issues that the cheater is struggling with that often have NOTHING to do with their spouse. If the "lousy marriage" was truly the only reason for an affair (and OWs often seem to think it must be) and the new, so called "love" with OW was so much more wonderful... then no, I don't think very many men would continue living in their horrible marriage with their horrible spouse. Sorry... I'm obviously not in a very good mood today. Edited November 28, 2009 by Katerina
Author hopeless4u Posted November 28, 2009 Author Posted November 28, 2009 It amazes me every time how OWs are convinced that their MM's marriage is "lousy". There are many, many reasons people have affairs... and most of them are because of some inner, psychological issues that the cheater is struggling with that often have NOTHING to do with their spouse. If the "lousy marriage" was truly the only reason for an affair (and OWs often seem to think it must be) and the new, so called "love" with OW was so much more wonderful... then no, I don't think very many men would continue living in their horrible marriage with their horrible spouse. Sorry... I'm obviously not in a very good mood today. Thanks Katerina for this and the previous post, yes to most of it.....but and there is always a but:) I know I have to walk away and I'm doing this, slowly. He has never said his marriage was lousy, just bearable. He's always thought it was normal until he met me. His dad left his mum for another woman when he was 16, he married because she was pregnant and has done the right thing by his mum and wife ever since. I'm not making excuses for him but again as I have said on so many posts he is not a bad person just very messed up. That said I will walk away because even being friends rips at my heart strings.
Katerina Posted November 28, 2009 Posted November 28, 2009 It really is a sad situation, for everyone. I wish you all the best. P.S. I accidentally called you "hopeful" a while back... maybe it's a sign.
NoIDidn't Posted November 28, 2009 Posted November 28, 2009 You are so right (lost count how many times I have said that on LS!) As I was reading your post he txt saying he had fell asleep(him and W had house to themselves tonight and I said for him to talk) I had it in my mind that maybe they had so didn't txt him, yeah right. I'm done, I'm not wasting my life for this man. I love him so much and thats always clouded my judgment but not now. He has chosen his wife and he now has to live with that choice, I am no longer an option for him. xx Hopeless4u - He was already living with that choice and is just waiting for you to realize it. Angel gave a really good post. One I have been through (not as long a time period, though) in other relationships too. I am a firm believer that former lovers can not be friends - not for a long, LONG time later at least. Angel's post shows me that my belief is mostly valid. She maintained a friendship with him - that was really an EA like you have been proposing - and it hurt her. She didn't really let go of the dream of "one day" and hearing how involved he is with his family and that feeling like she was an afterthought of all that, hurt. Friendships shouldn't feel like that.
Angel1111 Posted November 28, 2009 Posted November 28, 2009 It amazes me every time how OWs are convinced that their MM's marriage is "lousy". There are many, many reasons people have affairs... and most of them are because of some inner, psychological issues that the cheater is struggling with that often have NOTHING to do with their spouse. If the "lousy marriage" was truly the only reason for an affair (and OWs often seem to think it must be) and the new, so called "love" with OW was so much more wonderful... then no, I don't think very many men would continue living in their horrible marriage with their horrible spouse. Sorry... I'm obviously not in a very good mood today. They do have a lousy marriage. Even their daughter makes jokes about how bad it's going to be between them when the youngest son leaves home for college. But will he leave her? No.
Klassywife Posted November 29, 2009 Posted November 29, 2009 I know its my decision, I know its me who has to tell him I won't be there for him anymore and I know if I do he will do what I ask but I really can't imagine my life without him in it. Yes I care about his wife, if I didn't I'd of told her what is going on. He has told me where they live, where his daughter's uni is, where his son works, his dad works and even where his mum lives. I have their home phone number and have picked his phone up when his W rings, so yes I care, I care about his W, his family and his future. I think about him in his perfect life 24/7 and it breaks my heart but I would never put his W through hearing this from me, if she finds out it will be from him so don't tell me I don't care because I care believe me! So, you say you care about the wife, but you obviously care about yourself more. Love shouldn't be at the expense of someone else. Just because you haven't rubbed her face in his infidelity by telling her, doesn't mean you deserve a medal. You are still an adultress, a tresspasser, a liar, and a cheat. So is he. She sounds like the only honorable person in this "affair". He is using you and her. And last time I checked, a GOOD man doesn't cheat, lie, and deceive. But maybe your definition of a good man and mine is different!
Recommended Posts