Gunny376 Posted November 17, 2009 Posted November 17, 2009 For the women? Factoring out mental, emotional, physical abuse / neglect Factoring out addictions such as substance abuse, and criminal acts? That were good "providers" Worked hard, were good "providers" for both you and your children? Weren't "abusers" Factoring in that you married them because they were the "right one" ~ithat they meet your family's proifile as to what a good catch was? (Note! I know that a man being a "good provider" is not enough to substain a marriage between a man and woman in this day and age!) Why did you choose to divorce them?
tojaz Posted November 17, 2009 Posted November 17, 2009 Wow Gunny! Way to push the issue. Can honestly say this is the first thread I'm subscribing to. Hope to hear some responses. TOJAZ
trippi1432 Posted November 17, 2009 Posted November 17, 2009 For the women? Factoring out mental, emotional, physical abuse / neglect Factoring out addictions such as substance abuse, and criminal acts? That were good "providers" Worked hard, were good "providers" for both you and your children? Weren't "abusers" Factoring in that you married them because they were the "right one" ~ithat they meet your family's proifile as to what a good catch was? (Note! I know that a man being a "good provider" is not enough to substain a marriage between a man and woman in this day and age!) Why did you choose to divorce them? Ah Gunny, that's a lot to factor out....I wish it were easy to factor a lot of those things out. If I could take most of the things you mentioned to factor out of my STBX's and our marriage, there would be no divorce. And, honestly, had he not allowed most of those things to be first in his life and left us (his family), we would probably still be married. As I told him one day I was grateful that he ended it because I never would have. Yes, he was a good provider (always held down a job), but honestly, our greatest failure was that we didn't put each other first in the marriage. It's not my choice to get divorced, he wants his freedom so I'm giving it to him.
hopesndreams Posted November 17, 2009 Posted November 17, 2009 I had a marriage like that. It was perfect in my eyes and then he cheated on me and gave up on our M so had to let him go.
dgiirl Posted November 17, 2009 Posted November 17, 2009 Out of the blue, he asked for a divorce and moved out the very next day. Two months later, no papers were filed so I asked him to file if he wanted a divorce. Five months later, with a promise from him each week for three months he'd file the next week, on the advise of my lawyer, I filed. I did not want a divorce. But after five months of not living with your spouse, I realized that I simply was not in marriage and my exh was such a selfish asshat he wouldn't even clean up his mess. I had no choice but to file. It was the best move I ever made! But Gunny, you do realize that not ALL women leave their husbands. Not all women give up on their marriage. Everything you asked could be asked to the men too. Because my exh did exactly what you stated.
isthisallthereis Posted November 17, 2009 Posted November 17, 2009 (edited) I'll tell you why I am contemplating leaving my marriage. I am tired of doing it all and being in charge at home and at work (we co-own a business together). I'm tired of my husband not stepping up to the plate and being a partner. He wants me to take the lead because it is easy on him. If he worked with anyone other than me, he would have been terminated a long time ago. I'm tired of his expectations that I should be the breadwinner, and yet have all the household responsibilities. I'm tired of going thru my troubles alone: death of a brother and helping out my parents who had to deal with this. Secondary infertility (mom took me to the appointment; he resisted even jerking off in a cup); medical issues. Money issues: he always says "it'll all work out" when in truth I make it work out. He doesn't listen to what I say or is constantly trying to think of ways to prove me wrong. He wants to be a part of the family only when it is convenient for him. He is not a good father. I want to be with someone who will hold my hand, who doesn't go out of his way to avoid even casual contact with me. I want a husband who will kiss me. I want a husband who will visit with others when we go places, not just park himself in front of a TV to watch whatever game is on. I want a husband who will help me decorate the christmas tree. I want a husband who doesn't leave trash on the clean counter for me to throw away. I want a husband who won't throw up in the sink (right next to the toilet) and tell me "the sink needs to be cleaned." I'm not sure if any of your "factors" apply, but that's why I may be "one of those 40 year old women abandoning her marriage." ETA: Timing may be everything. Daughter leaves for college next fall, and I'm thinking about what I want out of the next phase of my life. Edited November 17, 2009 by isthisallthereis
whattodonow12 Posted November 17, 2009 Posted November 17, 2009 Hi Gunny! That is a lot to factor out. I know that if I did not have the mental, emotional, and physical abuse in my past that I would not be separated from my H right now. Even if other factors were there, such as lost attraction.. no chemistry.. I would give it a shot. I would, at least, try. You owe that to someone that you took those vows with.
2sunny Posted November 17, 2009 Posted November 17, 2009 because he didn't know how to be faithful. he also didn't have any remorse. he never made an attempt to repair the wrongs he so casually created. he also felt this HUGE sense of entitlement about everything in life. he also left me feeling empty and alone and brokenhearted. sigh... it's been a long tough road to get to a better place about a long marriage that failed.
floridapad Posted November 17, 2009 Posted November 17, 2009 They chose divorce because there was either an OM or they or perhaps the man did not learn more about each other inside the marriage. For some It's easier to walk away than to say "huh, let me figure out why I feel this way and truly work through this with my man". Of course if the man is not willing then that is his fault but the woman should definately give the man a true wake up call prior to committing to emotional divorce
Ronni_W Posted November 17, 2009 Posted November 17, 2009 Why did you choose to divorce them? TOOO weird! I woke up with that very thought -- are you psychic or sumtin', Gunny?!?!? This is all hindsight, btw. And pro'ly not even the whole story. Of course, I had truckloads of my own dysfunctional stuff going on...it was the combination that killed us. But, to answer your question... We never grew as a couple. His mantra became "this is who I am." Which it wasn't -- after we got divorced, he started being the man I'd met and married...just with other women. That was really sad to see. I ended up thinking, still do to some extent, that maybe he'd only participated in all those (pre-marriage) social activities so that he could "snag" a wife who was capable of taking care of him and all the crappy "adult" stuff...if it wasn't me, it could have been anyone else. It just happened to be me. He did not partner in dealing with problems, whether financial, emotional, whatever. It was left to me to cope or resolve. His idea of "conflict resolution" was to just ignore the problem. He was afraid of his own "negative" feelings and thus was completely unable to support me through mine...stress, grief, upset, frustration. He couldn't say 'no' to anyone else, so threw me under the bus more times than I care to remember. When I asked for specific help during periods of huge stress, he "just said 'no' ". When I started feeling unfulfilled in my (former) career, he did not give a crap other than how our lifestyle might be affected if I quit and retrained. Weird thing is: I did exactly that AFTER our divorce and he was one of my strongest supporters and allies. There was no indication that he gave a crap about ANY of my healthy/appropriate emotional, mental, spiritual or social needs. Oh, and our sex life was pretty much non-existent. But he was happy, and therefore did not see the need for anything to be different on his side. He sat in MC sessions waiting for me to "get better". So I divorced him.
Brokenlady Posted November 17, 2009 Posted November 17, 2009 For the women? Factoring out mental, emotional, physical abuse / neglect Factoring out addictions such as substance abuse, and criminal acts? That were good "providers" Worked hard, were good "providers" for both you and your children? Weren't "abusers" Factoring in that you married them because they were the "right one" ~ithat they meet your family's proifile as to what a good catch was? (Note! I know that a man being a "good provider" is not enough to substain a marriage between a man and woman in this day and age!) Why did you choose to divorce them? i think all those factors rule out just about everyone. my ex-husband was not well-liked by my family, made as much money as I did, was no help with the house or kids, and had other significant issues. We were incompatible, and just got married too young for the wrong reasons.
sumdude Posted November 17, 2009 Posted November 17, 2009 If I could add a couple more questions and thanks for answering. Hope you don't mind me adding on here Gunny. Looking back.. What personal responsibility do you now take for the demise of the marriage? Do you ever think you jumped the gun in leaving the marriage be it by divorce or an affair? Ever wonder if you two could have worked it out given more time? How much of it was the loss of physical chemistry and/or attraction?
sally4sara Posted November 17, 2009 Posted November 17, 2009 If I could add a couple more questions and thanks for answering. Hope you don't mind me adding on here Gunny. Looking back.. What personal responsibility do you now take for the demise of the marriage? Do you ever think you jumped the gun in leaving the marriage be it by divorce or an affair? Ever wonder if you two could have worked it out given more time? How much of it was the loss of physical chemistry and/or attraction? Since the ex was a drunk who lost jobs due to drinking, lost temper due to drinking, and lost license many times due to drinking, Gunny's list doesn't apply to my divorce. If those things were not factors, we'd likely still be married. I'm ride or die style. But this list? Well I feel we all have some share of a marital collapse no matter how one sided it seems. What personal responsibility do I take? For every category he failed in, I always busied myself to take up the slack. I was MAYBE too quick to prevent what his failings caused that I never gave him a chance to act on it himself. I became an enabler so fast! I had no familial experience with alcohol abuse that I didn't know what to do with his destructive tendencies other than to jump in and take over when he began to fumble. My ability to take on these tasks diminished further his crumbling sense of ability. Did I jump the gun? No. He left. I knew he would be back but, in his absence I saw a calmer and more productive way of life open up. When he wanted to beg back in the door, I refused him. It took me 6 years to get our divorce finalized. Could we have worked it out in more time? No. I did wonder this at one point, but the things he did in our marriage combined with the things he did after we separated disgust me now. All time did was make me hate him. When I was with him, I didn't know life could be much better. Now I know better and the past just looks so ugly. How much was the demise due to a loss of chemistry? I had lost my physical desire for him 4 years before we separated but still upheld my "duty" to keep the peace. I have no idea how long I would've kept going in that gear. All I do know is that when he left, I was scared and sad. That lasted about two days.
threebyfate Posted November 17, 2009 Posted November 17, 2009 Infidelity to me, is a blatant form of emotional abuse. If not for that, I would not have divorced my first husband.
Ronni_W Posted November 17, 2009 Posted November 17, 2009 What personal responsibility do you now take for the demise of the marriage? I had the perfectly matching, polar opposite, dysfunction to every one of his: where he was under-responsible, I was over-responsible. Where he believed conflict avoidance was the way to happy/peaceful relationships, I thought it was confronting every tiny conflict, etc., etc. I had never crystallized my own emotional, mental, spiritual, social and physical needs, which also meant I had zero clue as to how to meet them and ask for help with meeting them. With hindsight, it just feels as if I lacked most every basic relationship skill. Well...this paragraph applies to both of us equally, I believe is more accurate to say. But my side of it is 100% on my side of it. Do you ever think you jumped the gun in leaving the marriage be it by divorce or an affair? I did it in no time flat, but don't think staying any longer would have made much difference other than to the date on our Divorce Decree. Ever wonder if you two could have worked it out given more time? We did wonder that, but not in context of more time. Subsequently, he said that he wished he'd been open to trying another marriage counselor, and wished that he would have taken it seriously when I said that our marriage was in crisis. But. It was more just us talking after the fact. I think. How much of it was the loss of physical chemistry and/or attraction? Hhmmm. Not as much as the non-physical stuff. I think I could have lived with our almost non-existent sex life (there are toys, after all) but...to be able to make that part of it 'okay' needed for me to feel much more fulfilled in all the other areas. It's that, at the end, I just didn't have any sense of him giving a crap about me-as-a-person (not as a bookkeeeper, social director, problem solver, blah blah blah.)
Author Gunny376 Posted November 17, 2009 Author Posted November 17, 2009 Thanks! Very informative indeed! I factored out the most common reasons, because I was looking for let us say the more uncommon reasons? Which from the sound of it all seems to be neglect in some form or fashion ~ or just plain laziness? If not that? Then not being fully engaged in the relationship as a mutual partner. In my own personal case the Marine Corps (substitute Army, Navy, Air Force, State Trooper, Police Officer, and any other profession) demanded so much of me mentally, emotionally, physically I neglected my wife, my family. As trippi posted on her thread, in her messages from God ~ I lost focus as to why she and I got together in the first place. Your responses have brought me peace of mind and forgiveness. Forgiveness for her and in what she did and why she did it. After all when you point a finger at someone? You've got three pointing back at you? It was those three fingers that I was and have been trying to come to terms with? I knew I wasn't a terrible nor even a bad husband ~ nor the greatest. Ditto with being a father. Worse than some, but better than most. (WORD! Something you should post on post-it-notes throughout your house! When it comes to any and everything about yourself ~ ) But I did and gave the best that I had at the time ~ the best I knew to give at the time!
Ronni_W Posted November 17, 2009 Posted November 17, 2009 But I did and gave the best that I had at the time ~ the best I knew to give at the time! Amen to that, Gunny! At the very bottom, on that lowest of lowly rungs, I think it is the case for all of us...and our partners and former partners, yes? I'm glad you have found your self-forgiveness, btw Wishing you much peace, from now on.
1Angel Posted November 17, 2009 Posted November 17, 2009 Gunny you forgot infidelity though that would be considered by some as abuse. Gambling addiction or out of control spending habits could be another. Some people divorce because the partner is unable to perform sexually for physical or other reasons. Doesn't make it right just saying some think that's a reason too.
Author Gunny376 Posted November 17, 2009 Author Posted November 17, 2009 Amen to that, Gunny! At the very bottom, on that lowest of lowly rungs, I think it is the case for all of us...and our partners and former partners, yes? I'm glad you have found your self-forgiveness, btw Wishing you much peace, from now on. Damned allergies and tears flowing down my eyes!
Ronni_W Posted November 17, 2009 Posted November 17, 2009 Damned allergies and tears flowing down my eyes! CRAP!!! It's contagious!!! Pass the damn tissues, wouldja?
sumdude Posted November 17, 2009 Posted November 17, 2009 CRAP!!! It's contagious!!! Pass the damn tissues, wouldja? Will you two stop it.. I'm trying to .. dammit.... ya got me too.
turnstone Posted November 17, 2009 Posted November 17, 2009 For the women? Factoring out mental, emotional, physical abuse / neglect Factoring out addictions such as substance abuse, and criminal acts? That were good "providers" Worked hard, were good "providers" for both you and your children? Weren't "abusers" Factoring in that you married them because they were the "right one" ~ithat they meet your family's proifile as to what a good catch was? (Note! I know that a man being a "good provider" is not enough to substain a marriage between a man and woman in this day and age!) Why did you choose to divorce them? Because he took everything I had given him and in return gave me the clap. I thought it was bad enough discovering the multitude of OW, that my marriage was a lie from the very start. I left him immediately after finding out and although I knew I'd lost a huge part of my life, I thought I'd retained at least control over my body. But instead I am destroyed. I have nothing. Totally, utterly, completely nothing. That's why. Probably not what you meant, so sorry. But thanks for allowing me to vent.
Author Gunny376 Posted November 17, 2009 Author Posted November 17, 2009 Because he took everything I had given him and in return gave me the clap. I thought it was bad enough discovering the multitude of OW, that my marriage was a lie from the very start. I left him immediately after finding out and although I knew I'd lost a huge part of my life, I thought I'd retained at least control over my body. But instead I am destroyed. I have nothing. Totally, utterly, completely nothing. That's why. Probably not what you meant, so sorry. But thanks for allowing me to vent. HE WAS A DIRT BAG to have done what he done to you!
trippi1432 Posted November 17, 2009 Posted November 17, 2009 But I did and gave the best that I had at the time ~ the best I knew to give at the time! Aww Gunny, I think that everybody, at some point in their relationship, gives their best....some do it until the very end, some do it for a very brief period and just give up too soon. It takes two to build a marriage, two to work on a marriage, but it can come down to one infidelity, one last fight about the same old thing, one irreponsible person (and even the combination of the three) to break it. Hugs! You are a good man, that's what matters.
SummerLady Posted November 17, 2009 Posted November 17, 2009 Love you Gunny!! You know mine cheating cheating cheating. Cheating on me equals instant death........DONE!
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