justforfun Posted November 15, 2009 Posted November 15, 2009 there will be one or two who will be willing to deal with my crap...lol..I am sure of it... That's an unhealthy attitude.
justforfun Posted November 15, 2009 Posted November 15, 2009 Whoah...are you ok? you are like just attacking me No, I'm disagreeing with you and pointing out how your behaviors can be interpreted. You have the choice to consider them and maybe address your behaviors or you can dismiss them and carry on as you are. Since you pointed out you are not here for validation then you are possibly here for people to address your behavior? May I suggest you read a couple of books by Pia Melody...Love Addiction and Codependence. I was going down the same road as you have traveled and these books really helped. Love Addiction in particular. Don't be put off by the title it really is an excellent book. And I suspect you know that these behaviors are self destructive and unhealthy. If you were seeing a therapist you know what they would say. That's not a bad idea because if you can get out of this pattern then life will be a lot more enjoyable and so will your relationships.
betamanlet Posted November 15, 2009 Posted November 15, 2009 I don't think I said I need to be in a relationship...will you quote that, please? I think I said as social beings we need to be vested emotionally to other people.... You said: ...I am a social being. A normal person needs to be emotionally vested in another....check out Maslow's hierarchy of needs...besides why should I be alone? It is not like I do not have people asking me out.
betamanlet Posted November 15, 2009 Posted November 15, 2009 Exactly...I guess, I want to ask you by "relationship" what do YOU mean? Taking from you posts in several threads..seems to me you are not satisfied with your current social life...I mean, calling yourself a "social reject" is quite telling. Are you unable to form relationships? and if you do not think you need to be emotionally vested in another, why are you looking for it? I've managed to live 33 of the 34 years of my life being completely single. In that time, I managed to graduate from a top 25 college, I graduated from law school in top of my class, was on law review, am published, have travelled the entire world, all without the benefit of being in a relationship. Would it be nice? Yes. Would I want a happy and pleasant relationship? Sure. But do I need it? NO. I've gotten pretty far in life even before i lost my virginity.
justforfun Posted November 15, 2009 Posted November 15, 2009 I've managed to live 33 of the 34 years of my life being completely single. In that time, I managed to graduate from a top 25 college, I graduated from law school in top of my class, was on law review, am published, have travelled the entire world, all without the benefit of being in a relationship. Would it be nice? Yes. Would I want a happy and pleasant relationship? Sure. But do I need it? NO. I've gotten pretty far in life even before i lost my virginity. betamanlet, I'll be honest that I mostly ignore your posts because I think you're total nut But, in this case I have to say that the OP's post to you was absolutely unnecessary. Especially since she decided to launch an attack on you and completely ignore the posts I made to attempt to maybe help somewhat.
betamanlet Posted November 15, 2009 Posted November 15, 2009 betamanlet, I'll be honest that I mostly ignore your posts because I think you're total nut But, in this case I have to say that the OP's post to you was absolutely unnecessary. Especially since she decided to launch an attack on you and completely ignore the posts I made to attempt to maybe help somewhat. Hopefully not a brazil nut. i'm even allergic to those
Author tami-chan Posted November 15, 2009 Author Posted November 15, 2009 I've managed to live 33 of the 34 years of my life being completely single. In that time, I managed to graduate from a top 25 college, I graduated from law school in top of my class, was on law review, am published, have travelled the entire world, all without the benefit of being in a relationship. Would it be nice? Yes. Would I want a happy and pleasant relationship? Sure. But do I need it? NO. I've gotten pretty far in life even before i lost my virginity. That's pretty impressive!!!! Congratulations! but you did not answer my question. It's ok if you do not want to...it's a free country, so far...lol...
Author tami-chan Posted November 15, 2009 Author Posted November 15, 2009 Who is attacking who now? Why don't you focus on the advice here if that is truly what you are here for? Not attacking..I am asking him questions, to better understand where he is coming from-as I think we have a disconnect somewhere...but I think you want betamanlet to think I am attacking him? If I was attacking him, trust me I will have choice words for him
Author tami-chan Posted November 15, 2009 Author Posted November 15, 2009 betamanlet, I'll be honest that I mostly ignore your posts because I think you're total nut But, in this case I have to say that the OP's post to you was absolutely unnecessary. Especially since she decided to launch an attack on you and completely ignore the posts I made to attempt to maybe help somewhat. Actually I did not IGNORE your posts..I responded to them...maybe my response is not the kind you wanted but it's what you are getting...
Author tami-chan Posted November 15, 2009 Author Posted November 15, 2009 But you were quite adamant the Maslow's hierachy of needs related to a romantic relationship. You overlooked that those emotional needs are met by a sense of belonging that can be satisfied large social group, such as clubs, office culture,religious groups, professional organizations, sports teams, or small social connections (family members, intimate partners, mentors, close colleagues, confidants). It might be a good idea for you to explore these many options before jumping into a relationship. That would give you an opportunity to develop a sense of self and distract you from these obsessive behaviors. Adamant about romantic relationships? where did I say that? I think I stated a general statement of a person being a social being and needing to be emotionally vested to another....damn, you need to stop assigning your BS. But since we are talking about this..how do you figure having "sexual intimacy" with the whole church/club/organization etc? I mean, maybe you can do that...but that's not for me... Obsessive behaviors? LOL!!!!!!! you are CLEARLY saying things just to rile me up...where are you baing you conclusions from? LOL:D..please stop...you are sounding a little loony for me...
Author tami-chan Posted November 15, 2009 Author Posted November 15, 2009 That's an unhealthy attitude. That's ok...some guy somewhere will embrace my unhealthy attitude..I got it that way !
Devil Inside Posted November 15, 2009 Posted November 15, 2009 Actually...Maslow does state very clearly that one of the need is to love and be loved. This is actually a task that comes before the self esteem categories. So...if Tami is saying that she believes in Maslow's theory then it would make sense that she has a sense of needing to love and be loved.
Author tami-chan Posted November 16, 2009 Author Posted November 16, 2009 Actually...Maslow does state very clearly that one of the need is to love and be loved. This is actually a task that comes before the self esteem categories. So...if Tami is saying that she believes in Maslow's theory then it would make sense that she has a sense of needing to love and be loved. Thank you, DI! I knew I learned something from Psych 101...
Boundary Problem Posted November 16, 2009 Posted November 16, 2009 Tami-Chan, good luck with your search. I've been single a while now and when I gave up trying to control the outcome I started having a lot more fun. The fun itself becomes contagious.
Author tami-chan Posted November 16, 2009 Author Posted November 16, 2009 Tami-Chan, good luck with your search. I've been single a while now and when I gave up trying to control the outcome I started having a lot more fun. The fun itself becomes contagious. Thank you Boundary Problem..I am not really "searching"so to speak..I am with someone right now...It is just so new to me...the "dating" part...I am such a klutz about it.....yes, you are right I will give up trying to control the outcome and just go with it and have FUN!!!!!
justforfun Posted November 16, 2009 Posted November 16, 2009 Actually I did not IGNORE your posts..I responded to them...maybe my response is not the kind you wanted but it's what you are getting... In your excitement you didn't notice that I wasn't responding to you. I was talking to betamanlet.
justforfun Posted November 16, 2009 Posted November 16, 2009 I'm done with this thread since as in hitting the unsubscribe button because: a) you only 'hear' what you want to hear b) you choose to ignore/not respond to any genuinely helpful posts By all means continue as you are. It's your choice not to grow and develop. Good luck with your search.
RedDevil66 Posted November 16, 2009 Posted November 16, 2009 I'll share my experience.....I'm 43 now, started to date when I was 15 and was in that relationship until I was 22. Then left that r/s for one I was in for 11 yrs. Here I was, 34 and for the first time since I was a young adult, I was single and alone. I started to date right away thinking it was too hard to be alone. The first guy I met and who paid a little attention to me, I latched on to. I was so naive and desperate. Then I got some good therapy and realized, I was just not used to being alone and was only able to relate to myself while being in a relationship. I stayed alone for 2 yrs, had the time of my life, grew, met some great people etc. I agree, we are social animals, but that's doesn't mean you need to identify yourself by the relationship you're in. Someone mentioned about codependency, I think you should read about this. It took me some time, but I eventually learned to live alone with style and grace, got a wonderful job, became totally independent and realized, I needed to love just being with me Putting the focus on others takes the focus off of us, which is safe since we don't want to see who we really are. Crying when he called shows emotional immaturity which needs to be addressed. This doesn't mean you're a horrible person, it just means you've yet to grow.
Author tami-chan Posted November 17, 2009 Author Posted November 17, 2009 I'm done with this thread since as in hitting the unsubscribe button because: a) you only 'hear' what you want to hear b) you choose to ignore/not respond to any genuinely helpful posts By all means continue as you are. It's your choice not to grow and develop. Good luck with your search. Oh thank you!
Author tami-chan Posted November 17, 2009 Author Posted November 17, 2009 I started to date right away thinking it was too hard to be alone. The first guy I met and who paid a little attention to me, I latched on to. I was so naive and desperate. Thank you for sharing your story. There is a difference between our stories. The guy that I am dating now is not the first guy who has "paid a little attention" to me...I have had (and still do) quite a few...however, he is the one that I chose-well, it is reciprocal, he chose me, too! Getting attention from him(or other men) is not a problem at all...not because I am hot (im not) I think it's just because many men in this age-bracket are single. Then I got some good therapy and realized, I was just not used to being alone and was only able to relate to myself while being in a relationship. I stayed alone for 2 yrs, had the time of my life, grew, met some great people etc. I agree, we are social animals, but that's doesn't mean you need to identify yourself by the relationship you're in. I understand this...but I don't believe in being alone for the sake of being alone....I mean, if I find someone I can "connect" with emotionally...why not? I am not frivolous when it comes to sex and love. Someone mentioned about codependency, I think you should read about this. It took me some time, but I eventually learned to live alone with style and grace, got a wonderful job, became totally independent and realized, I needed to love just being with me. Thanks but I am not co-dependent to anyone for anything. I also do not have an addictive personality. I am my own person-not dependent on my stbxh for emotional or financial support...neither was I dependent that way to the xOM. In both relationships I had the upper hand. I had them where I wanted them. I guess I posted because I think for the first time, I might not have total control of the relationship-the man I am dating while very emotionally available, he is also a man's man. Meaning, he most likely will not take my crap.... Putting the focus on others takes the focus off of us, which is safe since we don't want to see who we really are. Sure, I agree with this...that is why we have a lot of people slamming other people, pointing out what's wrong with them, etc.etc...right? But how does this relate to me in this relationshp? I am always the focus...doesn't the world revolve around me? lol...just kidding Crying when he called shows emotional immaturity which needs to be addressed. This doesn't mean you're a horrible person, it just means you've yet to grow. Actually he did not know I cried..I just said I did not want to talk and that I was tired..Like I said in my original post, I am not sure why I cried...was it because I got all frustrated with myself because it seemed like I do not have total control over this relationship..or what? but you are right, I have some maturing to do! Good thing he knows this and so far has been very patient with me. Why would I(or anyone else, for the matter) think I am a horrible person because I cried? That does not make sense at all...I am not sure why you used that word.
Boundary Problem Posted November 17, 2009 Posted November 17, 2009 Hi Tami-Chan, Have you noticed how the marriage forum is about conciliation and problem solving? And the dating forum is like blood-sport. Here is my theory - it is a metaphor for how relationships progress. Dating is war. Strategy, deployment of resources and distracting the enemy from the true target. Marriage is peace. Problem solving, team work and cohesive and complementary points of view. If we can survive the dating forum, I think we are ready for anything.
Trimmer Posted November 17, 2009 Posted November 17, 2009 Actually...Maslow does state very clearly that one of the need is to love and be loved. This is actually a task that comes before the self esteem categories. So...if Tami is saying that she believes in Maslow's theory then it would make sense that she has a sense of needing to love and be loved. Thank you, DI! I knew I learned something from Psych 101... ... and Skinner put his daughter in a box, but we still need to think critically even though we read about it in Psych 101. That's the danger of textbook psychologists... Yes, Maslow puts self-esteem after this sense of belonging, intimacy, etc. And you can make an argument for that... However, where it goes wrong, and turns into a vicious cycle, is when a person believes they cannot achieve self-esteem, individualization, competence and confidence, without latching onto a romantic/life partner to complete them, to fill some missing piece. So while I agree that Maslow's hierarchy is a pretty good general prescription, I believe it is clearest at the lower levels - we need to breathe first, then water, then food, shelter, etc.... At this level, it's a pretty clear staircase. As you get higher up the list, though, to levels like self-esteem, intimacy, partnership, self-actualization, things become a little more hazy, and while the 'hierarchy' is still a general guide, there are complex interactions between things like self-esteem, individuation, sex, intimacy, and social interactions. So I don't think it's as simple as saying "well, I need a partner first, before I can achieve that whole self-esteem thing..." I think you need self-esteem, confidence, and a feeling of inward competence before you can achieve a healthy relationship with a partner.
Trimmer Posted November 17, 2009 Posted November 17, 2009 Have you noticed how the marriage forum is about conciliation and problem solving? And the dating forum is like blood-sport. Here is my theory - it is a metaphor for how relationships progress. Dating is war. Strategy, deployment of resources and distracting the enemy from the true target. Marriage is peace. Problem solving, team work and cohesive and complementary points of view. If we can survive the dating forum, I think we are ready for anything. Heh.... Different ones of us, take different metaphorical paths through the LS forums... I've always thought about this. I started in Infidelity, then Separation and Divorce, then eventually branched out into the wider world, including Dating.... I suppose I might have started in Marriage, if I had been more aware of (1) my marriage, and (2) the existence of LS, at the time...
Author tami-chan Posted November 18, 2009 Author Posted November 18, 2009 Hi Tami-Chan, Have you noticed how the marriage forum is about conciliation and problem solving? And the dating forum is like blood-sport. Here is my theory - it is a metaphor for how relationships progress. Dating is war. Strategy, deployment of resources and distracting the enemy from the true target. Marriage is peace. Problem solving, team work and cohesive and complementary points of view. If we can survive the dating forum, I think we are ready for anything. Hi there Boundary Problem! I like what you said above..it made me laugh but it also made me really ponder about this dating thing---<sigh> so much to learn....I am such a johnny-come-lately ! Thank you!
Author tami-chan Posted November 18, 2009 Author Posted November 18, 2009 ... and Skinner put his daughter in a box, but we still need to think critically even though we read about it in Psych 101. That's the danger of textbook psychologists... Who are you calling "textbook psychologist"..I hope you are not referring to me..because taking an "Intro to Psych" course is just that-never claimed to be anything more than that...stop being so condescending Yes, Maslow puts self-esteem after this sense of belonging, intimacy, etc. And you can make an argument for that... Self-esteem? who is talking about self-esteem...all I said was that as social beings we need to be emotionally vested to other people...now, there is a huge difference to being NEEDY...I am sure you can figure that out.. However, where it goes wrong, and turns into a vicious cycle, is when a person believes they cannot achieve self-esteem, individualization, competence and confidence, without latching onto a romantic/life partner to complete them, to fill some missing piece. ahmm... I did not have sexual intimacy with my stbxh for more than a decade and I did not go out of my marriage either during that time. I was not bitter about how our marriage was nor did I hate him. So this thing about "latching" (use here too often) to a romantic interest is foreign to me. I am my own person -I would not have been called "Ice Princess" if I was so emotionally needy-latching on to people, lol..please - I know, i know..now that I mentioned "ice princess"-you are going to come up with another thing seriously wrong with me. Can't win...lol.. So while I agree that Maslow's hierarchy is a pretty good general prescription, I believe it is clearest at the lower levels - we need to breathe first, then water, then food, shelter, etc.... At this level, it's a pretty clear staircase. As you get higher up the list, though, to levels like self-esteem, intimacy, partnership, self-actualization, things become a little more hazy, and while the 'hierarchy' is still a general guide, there are complex interactions between things like self-esteem, individuation, sex, intimacy, and social interactions. Look, are you going to tell me that we do not need to be emotionally vested to/with another human being( be it family, friends, lovers, etc.)? are you going to tell me that a mature person who has never had sexual intimacy is ok? Because if you are not...then really what you posted above does not refer to me. So I don't think it's as simple as saying "well, I need a partner first, before I can achieve that whole self-esteem thing..." and who said it is simple? Is there ever anything in the human Psyche that is simple? This is silly. Besides, who said that "I need a partner first, before I can achieve the whole self-esteem thing"? Trimmer, take a deep breath and read the OP...it is basically just a question of..."hey, I'm new in the dating scene and I am not sure how to navigate this". Goodness, it's not that serious...sheesh... I think you need self-esteem, confidence, and a feeling of inward competence before you can achieve a healthy relationship with a partner. Can you explain what ""feeling of inward competence" is vis-a-vis "feeling of competence"? is there an "outward competence?
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