howcouldInotknow Posted November 15, 2009 Posted November 15, 2009 I believe that my ex MM is trying to come back. Like I said in my post when I met him he was everything I ever wanted. Granted we weren't your typical MM and OW. I remember when I met him he was tall handsome, well dressed, charming, every inch the cultured, well groomed NYC male that I love. We started dating and it was amazing until we split. Now that its been brought to my attention he and his wife are finally divorcing. I don't feel elation, happiness, I basically don't feel anything. I remember the good and there was a lot of good, but more than anything I remember the day he told me he was going to reconcile with his wife. The lack of emotion or feeling or even understanding. How on earth does a man justify this enough to make you want to be with him again? I would never be able to take MM back because of the lack of regard he showed for my feelings. How can you ever forget? Do you forget and just let it slide? Because I can't imagine what MM will have to say when he finally does call and I am pretty sure he will.
NowhereToHide Posted November 15, 2009 Posted November 15, 2009 I have thought of this.. what would happen if my xAP got a divorce and decided he wanted me back. I know now that I wouldn't take him back. I think I would listen to what he had to say for my own benefit, but the reality is that he showed his true colors when we were together -- and even more so when we ended it. I think how you are feeling is indicative of that "little voice" we have that is saying that he's not the right person for you. At the end of the day, you know everything you need to know about him to make a decision. Trust your instincts.
boldjack Posted November 15, 2009 Posted November 15, 2009 The capacity for self-delusion in people is always amazing, to me.
Author howcouldInotknow Posted November 15, 2009 Author Posted November 15, 2009 The capacity for self-delusion in people is always amazing, to me. This is true. Nowheretohide I don't believe ex mm is a bad guy. I am not sure how to explain this well I don't think his words hurt because on that day he apologized a million times and he seemed remorseful but at the end of the day he made a choice and that's what hurt most. He didn't just offer me a future with words we were engaged and I thought we were in love. There is nothing he can say to repair the broken dreams. I would get no satisfaction from what he says because it wouldn't change anything. There is no undoing the hurt, or tears. I hope that makes sense
norajane Posted November 15, 2009 Posted November 15, 2009 (edited) I remember the day he told me he was going to reconcile with his wife. The lack of emotion or feeling or even understanding. How on earth does a man justify thisHe'll tell you that he owed it to his wife to give it one final try before deciding to divorce. That he knew you would be able to understand that to do it right and really be sure that you and he could be together free and clear, he had to end his marriage properly. And that it was so hard for him to tell you goodbye, that he didn't know how to tell you, and you "know" he's not good at talking about his emotions...that he came off all stiff and cold and unfeeling. That saying goodbye to you was the hardest thing he'd ever done, but he couldn't put you through the affair anymore. That he had to make sure his marriage was truly dead first before coming to you as a free man. And he'll humbly put his future in your hands, if you can find it within you to still luv him... Or, that he thought he was doing the right thing by reconciling, after all their years together. He thought he was doing the right thing by setting you free. But, he couldn't stop thinking about you the whole time. And he knew quickly that he couldn't make his marriage work. And he'll humbly put his future in your hands, if you can find it within you to still luv him... Something along those lines, I expect. Edited November 15, 2009 by norajane
Author howcouldInotknow Posted November 15, 2009 Author Posted November 15, 2009 He'll tell you that he owed it to his wife to give it one final try before deciding to divorce. That he knew you would be able to understand that to do it right and really be sure that you and he could be together free and clear, he had to end his marriage properly. And that it was so hard for him to tell you goodbye, that he didn't know how to tell you, and you "know" he's not good at talking about his emotions...that he came off all stiff and cold and unfeeling. That saying goodbye to you was the hardest thing he'd ever done, but he couldn't put you through the affair anymore. That he had to make sure his marriage was truly dead first before coming to you as a free man. And he'll humbly put his future in your hands, if you can find it within you to still luv him... Or, that he thought he was doing the right thing by reconciling, after all their years together. He thought he was doing the right thing by setting you free. But, he couldn't stop thinking about you the whole time. And he knew quickly that he couldn't make his marriage work. And he'll humbly put his future in your hands, if you can find it within you to still luv him... Something along those lines, I expect. Technically he and I didn't have an affair in the typical sense of what an affair is. He and his wife had been separated for over 18 months when we met. And he was not dating us both at the same time, they lived about 3 hours apart. When he decided to reconcile with her he stopped seeing me. They decided saturday night after meeting with lawyers on friday he and I stopped seeing each other the next morning. Its kind of different but not that much different. Ultimately he made a choice, good or bad that is the choice he made
Devil Inside Posted November 15, 2009 Posted November 15, 2009 This is true. Nowheretohide I don't believe ex mm is a bad guy. I am not sure how to explain this well I don't think his words hurt because on that day he apologized a million times and he seemed remorseful but at the end of the day he made a choice and that's what hurt most. He didn't just offer me a future with words we were engaged and I thought we were in love. There is nothing he can say to repair the broken dreams. I would get no satisfaction from what he says because it wouldn't change anything. There is no undoing the hurt, or tears. I hope that makes sense You make a lot of sense here. My xAP said something very similar to me when she broke it off. She told me...that I was the one she wanted, the one man she thought that could really make her happy, that from this point forward she would compare all men to me and be settling. I asked her if I was divorce would there be a chance in the future. She said that the fact that I clearly couldn't make the choice to choose her for months on end showed her that she was second...and even though she would always love me...she didn't think she could ever get over the feeling that she was second, and I only came back to her because I couldn't make it work with my W. At the time that she said this...I didn't want to get it. I thought if she loved me so much, she would be thrilled that I was divorced. As time went on I got it. She is a very proud woman. Not the kind of woman that was my OW because she wanted to be in an A...but the kind that was waiting to see if I was the kind of man that would sacrifice to be with her...she was in it to marry me. I admire that about her. That she was able to say that I could no longer put her second, that no man would ever put her second again.
Devil Inside Posted November 15, 2009 Posted November 15, 2009 The capacity for self-delusion in people is always amazing, to me. Hey BJ...who is that one liner directed at specifically?
Lizzie60 Posted November 15, 2009 Posted November 15, 2009 Nope.. 'exes' are just that.. 'exes'... I have never took an ex AP back.. for the simple reason that I've always been the one who stopped the A... ;) I kept in touch with most.. we still talk over the phone, emails, but it's over in my head... and I have no more 'desire' to see them again... they're just good friends now.. nothing more.
Fallen Angel Posted November 15, 2009 Posted November 15, 2009 He'll tell you that he owed it to his wife to give it one final try before deciding to divorce. That he knew you would be able to understand that to do it right and really be sure that you and he could be together free and clear, he had to end his marriage properly. And that it was so hard for him to tell you goodbye, that he didn't know how to tell you, and you "know" he's not good at talking about his emotions...that he came off all stiff and cold and unfeeling. That saying goodbye to you was the hardest thing he'd ever done, but he couldn't put you through the affair anymore. That he had to make sure his marriage was truly dead first before coming to you as a free man. And he'll humbly put his future in your hands, if you can find it within you to still luv him... Or, that he thought he was doing the right thing by reconciling, after all their years together. He thought he was doing the right thing by setting you free. But, he couldn't stop thinking about you the whole time. And he knew quickly that he couldn't make his marriage work. And he'll humbly put his future in your hands, if you can find it within you to still luv him... Something along those lines, I expect. Okay, so now I am TRULY confused!!! Isn't this EXACTLY what most people on these boards tell us OW we need to allow them to do? Attempt a reconciliation? Allow them to break free of the marriage because there is no hope for it after giving it real effort, and then and only then will we know it was meant to be? But yet now that this MM has done exactly that, and has realized that he truly does not want to be in his marriage any longer, and still loves the OP, and wants to try to have an HONEST OPEN relationship with her, the OP is being told it is some sort of game, and the MM is being shown scorn and disrespect for trying to do "the right thing" (according to the general consensus on these boards anyway.) Can someone explain to me the duplicity in this?
Devil Inside Posted November 15, 2009 Posted November 15, 2009 Okay, so now I am TRULY confused!!! Isn't this EXACTLY what most people on these boards tell us OW we need to allow them to do? Attempt a reconciliation? Allow them to break free of the marriage because there is no hope for it after giving it real effort, and then and only then will we know it was meant to be? But yet now that this MM has done exactly that, and has realized that he truly does not want to be in his marriage any longer, and still loves the OP, and wants to try to have an HONEST OPEN relationship with her, the OP is being told it is some sort of game, and the MM is being shown scorn and disrespect for trying to do "the right thing" (according to the general consensus on these boards anyway.) Can someone explain to me the duplicity in this? That is the danger in trying to discern meaning without nonverbal cues. I did not take Nora's post as a sarcastic one, but more as what she realistically thought a MM would say in this situation. BTW...I think it is pretty right on. I think in this situation...where OP is with things...and how she feels...she is at a lack of any ideas of what he could possibly say to help her feel ok with reconciling. I do think that if a MM wants to be with his OW he should let her go and then divorce. However...this does not mean that every OW will take him back. this situation is also different in that he was separated for over a year and chose to go back to his M. Very different from most situations here.
jj33 Posted November 15, 2009 Posted November 15, 2009 How could I, only you know the answer to this question. Do you still love him? Do you believe that you could have a future together? Do you believe that you could start a fresh relationship and that a new dynamic could be created and you could get over the feeling of having been so deeply rejected? Each situation is different and each person frames things differently in their own mind. I know that is not helpful but its not cut and dried. I used to ask myself the same question. Now I simply think that it would be terribly sad if that day ever came because I dont think that I could get over the past, much as a part of me would want to. And it would be heartbreaking for him to leave, thinking that we finally had a chance to fulfill the potential of our relationship but it was too late. But sadly I think that is very possible. On the other hand is that just a defense. The man did the wrong thing by not working on his relationship first before stepping out, but he did the right thing by giving it a final shot. Hes done that now, if you are truly the woman he loves, and he can now say hand on heart that he can leave without looking back and wondering, as so often happens when people leave in the midst of an affair, is it perhaps a question of not wanting something once you have it? While he was working on his marriage, you could have met someone else. You could be so happy with a new man that you wouldnt even consider him and might look back fondly but without any interest in what might have been. But that is not the case. The question then is are you willing to give this man another chance knowing that he has broken your heart and might do so again.
norajane Posted November 15, 2009 Posted November 15, 2009 That is the danger in trying to discern meaning without nonverbal cues. I did not take Nora's post as a sarcastic one, but more as what she realistically thought a MM would say in this situation. BTW...I think it is pretty right on. Yes, I was responding to her question about what a MM would say to her in this situation about why he left her and why he's coming back. Whether she thinks that's sufficient or not is entirely up to her based on how she feels. Personally, I think he did what he thought was best at the time. He and his wife had been separated for a long time, he fell in love with someone else, but marriages aren't easy to end. He and his wife felt they should give it one last ditch effort, and in order to do so, he needed to end things with the OP so as not to drag her along and perhaps hurt her more by doing so if he and his wife did reconcile. And there's no way to give it a real effort if he's still seeing the OP. I don't know what was said when he broke up with her; perhaps he could have explained it better to the OP or with more sensitivity. I think the OP is hurt because he chose to break up with her instead of choosing to break up his marriage at that time. So she is now feeling like, WTF? Am I your back-up, your second choice? And she can be perfectly justified in feeling that way and not in the frame of mind to take him back. That's the risk he took.
Devil Inside Posted November 15, 2009 Posted November 15, 2009 I don't know what was said when he broke up with her; perhaps he could have explained it better to the OP or with more sensitivity. I think the OP is hurt because he chose to break up with her instead of choosing to break up his marriage at that time. So she is now feeling like, WTF? Am I your back-up, your second choice? And she can be perfectly justified in feeling that way and not in the frame of mind to take him back. That's the risk he took. I agree completely. When you are not chosen I do not know if there are any words that can make it easier. It just hurts to not be chosen.
Meranna Posted November 15, 2009 Posted November 15, 2009 I didn't take Nora's post as sarcastic. As a matter of fact, it was just the thing I needed to hear. I couldn't wait to log on and read it again today. Thank you for that Nora, I actually copied it so I can read it whenever I need to hear it. To the OP, I may very well be in your situation soon. Two months ago my exMM and I went through the same type of thing. I let him go because that's what he needed to do for his marriage, his family, himself and for ME. I've learned from other sources that he has moved out but he hasn't contacted me yet, which is fine, I think two months isn't enough time for him to deal with HIS life. I "waited" seven years for him to do this, whichever way it goes will bring relief and closure for me. I KNOW he has to do this for the same reasons that Nora stated, even if he couldn't say them himself (I actually said most of that for him). I think men have a tendency to close up instead of dealing with feelings and your MM may have had a very hard time letting go of you, not delving into the feelings of the situation at the time may have been the only way he could have had the strength to do what needed to be done, for his marriage, for him, and for YOU! I know when I have to deal with a very hard situation, I tend to come across as very blunt and cold. I'm normally a very emotional and caring person, but that's the only way I can get through the tough stuff, to toughen up myself. As for your other question. Yes, I would take him back, as long as I knew he tried everything he could to make his marriage work. As someone else stated, I never want to feel like I'm second in anyone's life EVER AGAIN!!!
jj33 Posted November 15, 2009 Posted November 15, 2009 I understand the idea of being second but when someone starts an A without linking it to leaving their marriage the timing is always wrong. In this case he had been separated for a long time, but he had not divorced - the attachment was still there. If he was clear on wanting to divorce, he would have started divorce proceedings. I dont buy the idea that if someone really loves you they will leave. I think leaving a marriage and loving someone else are two different things in many cases. Its not a competition between the AP versus the BS. There are plenty of people who go back to their marriages for a whole host of reasons and do not stop loving the AP or wishing that their situation were different so that they felt they could leave. Im not saying they couldnt but how someone perceives the situation is more important than whether they could objectively leave. This case may be different because he was separated for a very long time.
Author howcouldInotknow Posted November 15, 2009 Author Posted November 15, 2009 I understand the idea of being second but when someone starts an A without linking it to leaving their marriage the timing is always wrong. In this case he had been separated for a long time, but he had not divorced - the attachment was still there. If he was clear on wanting to divorce, he would have started divorce proceedings. I dont buy the idea that if someone really loves you they will leave. I think leaving a marriage and loving someone else are two different things in many cases. Its not a competition between the AP versus the BS. There are plenty of people who go back to their marriages for a whole host of reasons and do not stop loving the AP or wishing that their situation were different so that they felt they could leave. Im not saying they couldnt but how someone perceives the situation is more important than whether they could objectively leave. This case may be different because he was separated for a very long time. Funny thing is that they were in the process of being divorced. There was some final paper work to be done for the divorce to become final and she didn't want a divorce anymore. All along the divorce was moving along then she started contesting the divorce settlement. He seemed unwilling to give her more than the original settlement. Then after that she didn't want a divorce anymore (obviously he didn't either because he went back). In all honesty I love him, but eff love because where was his love when he decided to break my heart over something he knew was a waste of time? I am an extremely proud woman. I have walked away from a lot of things in my life just because of that pride. In a sense I would always feel belittled by him because I was a back up plan
NowhereToHide Posted November 15, 2009 Posted November 15, 2009 Funny thing is that they were in the process of being divorced. There was some final paper work to be done for the divorce to become final and she didn't want a divorce anymore. All along the divorce was moving along then she started contesting the divorce settlement. He seemed unwilling to give her more than the original settlement. Then after that she didn't want a divorce anymore (obviously he didn't either because he went back). In all honesty I love him, but eff love because where was his love when he decided to break my heart over something he knew was a waste of time? I am an extremely proud woman. I have walked away from a lot of things in my life just because of that pride. In a sense I would always feel belittled by him because I was a back up plan Personally, I think you might just be letting pride get in the way of having this man in your life that you truly love. IF you love him, IF you can trust him again, IF he is the kind of man you think you could build a life with, then give it a shot. Yes, you were second.... but being married myself, I give him credit for exhausting all of his options with his family before divorcing. It's what you are supposed to do -- make sure the marriage is completely hopeless before you move on. You sound pissed off and resentful that he just didn't up and leave for you immediately -- well, clearly that was a shot to your ego. In affairs, that's unrealistic, not to mention the fact that it doesn't take into consideration his feelings for his wife and his family which do not disintegrate quickly. He SHOULD be conflicted. It's the sign of a man with a conscious. You're viewing it as a YOU vs. HER. Again, it's not that black and white. It sounds like you won't be able to get over not being "picked" over the W. If that's the case, then move on.
Author howcouldInotknow Posted November 15, 2009 Author Posted November 15, 2009 honestly its not about me vs. the wife. Its about me feeling betrayed like he lied to me. I was with this man and before we started dating I asked him is he in a place where he feels like he has let go of his marriage enough to start dating. His answer was yes. So I went into it thinking I was going to have a relationship with a man that wasn't still mentally stuck in his marriage. Time passed we dated things got serious, he asked me to move in, he proposed (I know a lot of people wonder why accept when he was legally still married. I wasn't expecting him to not ever get divorced also at that point I do not think he nor I felt going back to his marriage was an option), then a couple of months later you reconcile with your wife? WTF I feel l like I have every right to be upset. I think he is a wonderful guy and when we were together he went above and beyond for me always. He always made sure I was happy. In a sense I feel that what we had was an illusion if the choice to go back was so easy. I am not sure if that makes sense
jj33 Posted November 15, 2009 Posted November 15, 2009 How could I dont think its a "lying" issue I think its a trusting his words to match his emotions issue. When he told you he was ready to move forward Im sure he thought he was - after all the divorce was in process. But he chickened out. He got cold feet. And gave it another go. Seems to me the issue is if he does really divorce, how will you know that he wont waffle again - not lying per se but a change of heart. I feel for you. Bug hugs
Author howcouldInotknow Posted November 15, 2009 Author Posted November 15, 2009 How could I dont think its a "lying" issue I think its a trusting his words to match his emotions issue. When he told you he was ready to move forward Im sure he thought he was - after all the divorce was in process. But he chickened out. He got cold feet. And gave it another go. Seems to me the issue is if he does really divorce, how will you know that he wont waffle again - not lying per se but a change of heart. I feel for you. Bug hugs You are completely right the trust is gone
Meranna Posted November 15, 2009 Posted November 15, 2009 You said you still love him, trust can be regained if both parties are willing to put forth the effort to make it work. If he comes back to you and wants a relationship, you could always consider couples counseling. No one can blame you for how you feel and if you decide to not give him another chance then that's what he deserves. It's up to you to decide if he, and the relationship you could have, are worth it. Sending you lots of hugs and strength.
Author howcouldInotknow Posted November 17, 2009 Author Posted November 17, 2009 Can trust ever truly be rebuilt. I am not sure but I doubt that , especially for someone like me who has a hard time forgetting wrong done to me. I forgive but I never forget and shame on me if you hurt me once, shame on me if it happens twice.
VictoryisMine Posted November 18, 2009 Posted November 18, 2009 howcouldInotknow, i hope you don't take him back. I hope i don't take my MM back either, if he were to call. No, trust can never truly be rebuilt, i tell myself.
mybrowneyedgirl Posted November 18, 2009 Posted November 18, 2009 i could never trust my mm again. but not because he chose her. because of the way he did it. in my mind theres more than one way to skin a cat. with that being said, if for some reason he wanted to leave her for me after d-day i would have asked him to go try with her first. i think it should be done before ending it for another person. and i think the AP needs to be out of the picture during that time. i certainly see my husband in a whole new light now that theres not another person clouding my view.
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